300tdi versus td5 in torque at idle speed?

[sumo]

Hi

Just out of curiosity, I' was talking to a guy who drives a 130 td5 dualcab ute for state rail (the ones set up for running along the rail line), and he was saying his only gripe with the vehicle was having to rev the guts out of it to take off. they permanently have it loadedto the max about 1.5 ton, :eek: Thats a fair bit on the back to take off with if on soft ground or on a steep slope. but if using low range youwouldn't think reving the crap out of it would be necesary. I know with the 300 motor i can reverse a 1.2t caravan up our driveway which is pretty steep on dead idle (foot off the pedal), is their a difference hear between the two engines at low revs? The td5 has more torque at revs going by specs, but just wondering now about real lugging power right down low?

Cheers Sumo:D

[cookiesa]

It would be interesting to hear as the 300Tdi has such a rep for being gutless.

Thing is I can't believe how close to impossible stalling a 300tdi is off road (in high as well as low range)

Our previous 2.8TD Jackaroo stalled a lot earlier than what the 300tdi will

[sumo]

It would be interesting to hear as the 300Tdi has such a rep for being gutless.

Thing is I can't believe how close to impossible stalling a 300tdi is off road (in high as well as low range)

Our previous 2.8TD Jackaroo stalled a lot earlier than what the 300tdi will

Thats whats got me thinking mate, if i revved the daylights out of mine taking off with a load some thing would fly to bits for sure, not necesary.

Sumo

[waynep]

300TDi is a nice reliable donk but don't believe it is better than a TD5. I have driven both. If it wasn't for the TD5 harness/ECU problems I would say no contest.

[dobbo]

Sumo them Highrails have a lot of weight on them the rail running gear and hydraulics on them would easily way over a ton, then the weight of a 130 crew cab, then the 1.5 ton on the back. It's a lot of weight for a little engine to pull up hills.

[George130]

Can't help as mine is converted to Auto with a high stall converted so you rev it anywhere for 2000-3000 on take of. It does get up and move even when loaded though!

[sumo]

Sumo them Highrails have a lot of weight on them the rail running gear and hydraulics on them would easily way over a ton, then the weight of a 130 crew cab, then the 1.5 ton on the back. It's a lot of weight for a little engine to pull up hills.


Yeah, your right mate wasn't thinking about the weight of that rail running gear!!, Jap stuff probably wouldn't take off at all:D ,

Cheers.

[Blknight.aus]

well I know for a fact that a loaded TD5 110 quite happilly pulls a fully loaded disco on a car trailer from albury to melbourne quite happily...

no low range take offs (well except when I was getting out of the camp site and wanted slow speed for manouvering)

[Scouse]

IMO, the Td5 is a lot easier to stall than the 300Tdi.
I only really drive brand newies so maybe they get better with age.

[sumo]

well I know for a fact that a loaded TD5 110 quite happilly pulls a fully loaded disco on a car trailer from albury to melbourne quite happily...

no low range take offs (well except when I was getting out of the camp site and wanted slow speed for manouvering)


But thats all down hill going that way!!:D :D :D :D

Seriously on dead idle will they push & pull weight?

Cheers.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if you are moving stuff on dead idle,,
maybe you should think about an auto--

[Blknight.aus]

But thats all down hill going that way!!:D :D :D :D

Seriously on dead idle will they push & pull weight?

Cheers.
yep, on the flat i can move of 2 tons of dirt in the big green trailer at idle, need a bit more for hill starts...

I dont like reversing in high range for 1 reason its too fast and once the traieler goes too far out the QE2 turning circle wont let me catch the trailer.


1.5 tons on the back can be idled up my drive way but I dont think theres much left in it while I am.

[tombraider]

IMO, the Td5 is a lot easier to stall than the 300Tdi.
I only really drive brand newies so maybe they get better with age.

That would be due to the transitioning of the ECU from idle control to TPS control.

The engine idle mapping is very good, allowing the vehicle to crawl along. Throw your foot on the TPS and the engine changes to active mapping.

Its this transition which allows the vehicle to stall...

Try driving only on idle and the thing will pull itself along maintaining idle RPM very well (fuels up as necessary). Tap the throttle and one can stall as it changes to base1 map.

[Graeme]

That's where mine idles smoothly at about 750rpm, but bring the revs up to about 900 and its as rough as guts and acts as though its running on 3 cylinders. But maybe mine's not normal...

[Blknight.aus]

that, to me sounds like the start of the dreaded tps failure...

[tombraider]

Yes, Graemes ECU showed Driver Demand issues and this was mentioned to him.

Graeme, hows it going otherwise? I believe we managed to tune out the other issues you were having.

[Graeme]

Yes, Graemes ECU showed Driver Demand issues and this was mentioned to him.

Graeme, hows it going otherwise? I believe we managed to tune out the other issues you were having.

Hi Tombraider,
The roughness just above idle occurs in both high and low range, but its at such light throttle movement that it might still be the problem. However in low range the throttle can be held very steady, so I'd be surprised if its the cause. Its not that there's a dead spot, it just runs terribly rough at those constant revs. One day I might have to get it looked at.

Apart from my occasionally trying to use too much throttle at around 1400rpm going uphill in 4th and causing it to fail to accelerate, it pulls and behaves very well. I wonder how its eventual replacement is going to impress me.

[robert42]

Hi all interesting ,went through this before we brought the td5 as we already had the 300tdi. and wondered if we were gaining anything..
well we still have both and the 300 is auto. td5 is manual..
with the same van the 300 is better at take off. but not as good on the highway.. the td5 is much better towing @ 100ks on the highway with a smile..
but of road towing same van 1800 kg plus ,20 foot. and in steep country the 300 with dif.lock in on dirt is so much better to drive and has plenty to spare.. td5 dose it but you have to drive it and watch what your at..
hills we went on are at the back of bright vic..
and up big hill past mount beauty plus..
well thats what i found anyhow..love both..
have had land rovers since ser.1