Detroit lockers

[matt39788]

Hi all,
My Brother is thinking of fitting a Detroit locker to the rear of his 87 RR has anyone had much luck with automatic lockers on rovers or are the selectable ones the way to go. And what sort of price will you pay for an auto locker vs say the arb set up.

Cheers Matt

[rangieman]

which ever locker he goes for tell him to up grade the axles or he will just end up breaking axles:angel:

[PhilipA]

I had one in a 77.
I found it good but not completely civlized.Mine was the first Soflocker,but the later ones are supposedly better.
It had several quirks which were OK on my old 77 but I put Maxidrive in my 92 as it was unobtrusive and more in keeping with the car.
1 Occasionally it would give a VERY LOUD clunk as you took off from lights, particularly on a slight curve. This was the side dogs slipping into place.
2 On accelerating in say thrid gear around a curve, if you changed gear he car would dive inwards.
3 If going up a steep muddy track , it would not disengage in a corner which made you go straight ahead, which was often not wanted.
4 If on a muddy road with a side slope the back would always go down the slope as both rears would spin a bit.I got very adept at driving sideways , looking through the side window.
5 If turning slowly around a roundabout or in a carpack, the back would clunkety clunk as it engaged and disengaged.

In all I was very happy with it. I broke an axle as I was wheel spinning and the long side picked up traction, and after the Nissan Trial both back axles had about 1/4 turn on the splines. I then had it broached and fitted Jacmac axles, and it was OK.
Considering that you really have to factor in stronger axles, I think the Maxidrive is the way to go. they cost about $2400 or so, but in the end the Detroit wil cost you almost as much, for a far inferior level of civility.
There are quite a few Maxis around second hand now.
Regards Philip A

[discowhite]

alot has changed since then.

i had one in the back of my s1 v8 disco and it was really unpredictable, scared the crap out of me on more than one occasion. but i liked it:eek:

so i decided to stick one in the rear of my 90. so i can now comment on the differances between the old detroit and the new one(soft lock) they are like chalk and cheese.
honestly i dont even know its there in the 90. no clunks no darting off in another direction, even in the wet!
i cant even hear the ratcheting sounds the old one made.

if it were the same as the one in the disco the 90 wouldnt be safe to drive on the road. i ve dont over 20 000k's with it in and not a problem. only thing is that tyre diameter is critical, within 10mm for my short wheel base.

as for a fit and forget locker, ide never buy anything else.
price 2400 for the maxi+fitting??
around 1000 for the locker, im still out on the whole axle thing, thats all down to your driving style. i still havent broken one.

cheers phil

[djam1]

I have a soft locker in the rear of my Stage 1 V8 and I have found its performance to be very impressive.
They are not always civilised but once you get use to their peculiarities they are fine, certainly not dangerous.

Don’t floor it when going around a round about and beware of the front end swinging in if you change gears while accelerating around a long corner.
I think the key with their noise is to do with using nice heavy 85-149w with 20% Moreys. Most of the big bangs and clunks disappear after changing to this oil mix.

[LRHybrid100]

I'm with DiscoWhite - I have a Detroit in the rear of the Rangie, top piece of equipement. Never heard a noise from it - mine about 3 years old now.

Going to put a Detroit Truetrack slippery in the front soon also.

LRH

[sclarke]

Leave them in Detroit...... Get a Maxi

[D110V8D]

Detroits are great. I'm pretty sure I'm going back to a Detroit in the rear of my 110. And a tru trac up front.:cool: :cool: :cool:

Maxi's are great too, but cost alot more and theres more involved in fitting and there are more bits and hoses and switches and blah blah blah.:D :D

[Ace]

The saving of $1400 over a maxi has convinced me, when the budget allows it i reckon i am going for the detroit after reading all this.

[matt39788]

Thanks alot for your comments guys. I told my brother about your feedback and he has put in an order at the local Oppisite Lock dealer, will be fitted next week.

cheers Matt

[D110V8D]

I think they're cheaper through Locked drive systems.

$850 for a Detroit for the salisbury rear end in a 110.

Add to that approx $700 for axles and flanges from Maxi Drive and you have a very strong rear end for $1550 + fitting.

[Ace]

But who here thinks that maxi axles are required when a locker is added? Has anyone else got a locker with standard axles and not broken one? In the end if you dont keep the boot in when there is no possibility of forward momentum then you shouldnt have a problem

[noddy]

Matt -- I cannot speak for Rangies or Discos, but both my Defenders have gone through rear axles without having lockers fitted. They have not broken, but severely worn.

A couple of others on here have also worn rear axles, without lockers and not through too much right foot. In time they need to be replaced, it is just a question of when you want to outlay $$$.

[discowhite]

im still out on the whole axle thing, thats all down to your driving style. i still havent broken one.



pretty sure marcle aka defute and LRH are also running std axles.

when i break 2 axles then i'll buy the maxi's.
im more worried about cv's!

just rember to not drive like you own a toyota!
this is what im saying http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/Watagans-Feb-2007/Watagan_2007_02_SkullCrossbonesNRV.wmv

cheers phil

[dobbo]

pretty sure marcle aka defute and LRH are also running std axles.

when i break 2 axles then i'll buy the maxi's.
im more worried about cv's!

just rember to not drive like you own a toyota!
this is what im saying http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/Watagans-Feb-2007/Watagan_2007_02_SkullCrossbonesNRV.wmv

cheers phil


What with a paper bag on your head to hide your face.

[D110V8D]

People usually need to drive like that 'cause they dont have lockers.;) :D :D :D

[discowhite]

or land rovers:twisted:

[D110V8D]

or land rovers:twisted:

Right on!:D :D :D

[incisor]

who normally does them?

[mns488]

I have been contemplating a locker as well.

Just curious about cost. Based on a lot of the above conversations everyone seems to expect Maxis locking kits are 2000 - 2500 ish.

LRA advertise kits for $1870 (including axles & other bits and pieces).

http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/19.html

Is this missing anything (excluding fitting)?

[PhilipA]

The $2400 included fitting. It is quite time consuming as the rear actuation fitting is cut into and welded onto the axle.
Plus I guess the running of the vacuum hoses in and under the dash etc.
Regards Philip A

[100I]

does a Maxi require the backlash etc to be setup again?

[waynep]

I put a Maxi in the back of the Disco but on my next car I'd seriously consider the Detroit /Tru Trac combo. Front and rear could be done for not much more than a single maxi in the back.
Maxis and airlockers are good but not having to worry about remembering to lock/unlock the bloody thing appeals. A few times I've put the Maxi in to get over a tricky bit and then forgotten to disengage it.
But the open diff landies certainly need something.

[dobbo]

They all sound good in theory, I have yet to see a detroit sytle locker in practice though, should be interesting. The only thing I do not like is not being able to engage / disengage manually, surely a certain about of wheelspin has to be instigated before the locker engages, I can see the potential for this to get you in a deeper mess before the locker engages.


If this is the case that wheelspin has to be detected, how does it engage if you have T/C?

[Tusker]

Hi Dobbo

Detriots should properly be called an unlocker. The normal state is locked, until traction on a high grip surface in a turn forces it it unlock, & the outside wheel freewheels. Straighten up, & it locks again.

They used to be popular in motor racing, when there wasn't anything better. Falcon GTHOs had them. Some of my cohorts in MGS had them. These things caused a few drivers to visit the weeds at Amaroo Park - boot in it up the hill, stays locked. Forget & lift off for the turn at the crest, it unlocks. Spin often results.

Anyway, t/c would just sit in the background, I'm sure. A detroit by design doesn't spin a single wheel.

Regards
Max P

[Ace]

Hi Dobbo

Detriots should properly be called an unlocker. The normal state is locked, until traction on a high grip surface in a turn forces it it unlock, & the outside wheel freewheels. Straighten up, & it locks again.

They used to be popular in motor racing, when there wasn't anything better. Falcon GTHOs had them. Some of my cohorts in MGS had them. These things caused a few drivers to visit the weeds at Amaroo Park - boot in it up the hill, stays locked. Forget & lift off for the turn at the crest, it unlocks. Spin often results.

Anyway, t/c would just sit in the background, I'm sure. A detroit by design doesn't spin a single wheel.

Regards
Max P

Thats makes them sound better, its better to be in incase and then disable to allow you to do things that dont require them.

[mns488]

Hi Dobbo

Detriots should properly be called an unlocker. The normal state is locked, until traction on a high grip surface in a turn forces it it unlock, & the outside wheel freewheels. Straighten up, & it locks again.

They used to be popular in motor racing, when there wasn't anything better. Falcon GTHOs had them. Some of my cohorts in MGS had them. These things caused a few drivers to visit the weeds at Amaroo Park - boot in it up the hill, stays locked. Forget & lift off for the turn at the crest, it unlocks. Spin often results.

Anyway, t/c would just sit in the background, I'm sure. A detroit by design doesn't spin a single wheel.

Regards
Max P

That said, given that it is locked most of the time and is forced to unlock on high grip surfaces, would it be fair to say:

if your car mainly does city driving there would be more wear and tear on the (detroit) locker compared to say if you had a manual locker?

As my car does do a fair bit of city driving I have been tending towards a manual locker.

[PhilipA]

My Detroit did carrier bearings in about 20K. I do not know whether the installer (Kraft Differentilals) replaced the bearings, but I think not.
If you get one installed get new bearings fitted, which of course increases the cost.
But I do think that a Detroit is hard on carrier bearings, due to being locked all the time.
Yes you have to reset the backlash with any of these lockers that replace the normal diff innards.
Regards Philip A

[mns488]

My Detroit did carrier bearings in about 20K. I do not know whether the installer (Kraft Differentilals) replaced the bearings, but I think not.
If you get one installed get new bearings fitted, which of course increases the cost.
But I do think that a Detroit is hard on carrier bearings, due to being locked all the time.
Yes you have to reset the backlash with any of these lockers that replace the normal diff innards.
Regards Philip A

Did you put new axles in when you had the detroit put in?

[Tusker]

That said, given that it is locked most of the time and is forced to unlock on high grip surfaces, would it be fair to say:

if your car mainly does city driving there would be more wear and tear on the (detroit) locker compared to say if you had a manual locker?

As my car does do a fair bit of city driving I have been tending towards a manual locker.

Gotta say I've never had one, but reputation suggests increased tyre wear.

Regards
Max P

[dobbo]

Anyway, t/c would just sit in the background, I'm sure. A detroit by design doesn't spin a single wheel.

Regards
Max P


This could have saved me a lot of money in fines, in a past life that is.

[PhilipA]

No, I ran with standard axles until I broke one, then later same year went into Nissan Trials and put 1/8 turn on both axle's splines, probably climbing "The wall" after the "Rock Garden."
I then had the diff centre broached by Jacmac and Jacmac axles fitted.
No further problems.
Oh I found that I also quickly went through rear trailing arm front bushes.

My BFG ATs did not seem to wear much quicker, but the treads were very badly "chunked" with about 40 -50K on them. this was after several mountain trips around Brindabellas, Clear Range.
Regards Philip A

[vogue]

I've had a detroit in the rear of my '89 Rangie for 9mths and love it. Except for the clicking in carparks etc i forget it's there (the softlocker is supose to be much better for noise). Mine is in a 24 spline diff center that i bought of a AULRO member. I then put in 24 spline axles, stub axles and hubs from a disco. Worked out cheaper than maxi/ JMac axles and so far i havent had any problems.
I'd put another detroit in again.

[discowhite]

if your car mainly does city driving there would be more wear and tear on the (detroit) locker compared to say if you had a manual locker?



i first one i had was over 7 years old and had been in several hard driven RR's (insert picture of maggot4x4 here) when i stripped it down for a look i couldnt find any sign of wear at all:eek:

the 2 new detroits ive bought come with carrier bearings! most places leave them out so you have to buy them....

cheers phil

[justinc]

I've fitted front and rear True Tracs to a D1 auto Tdi. Even with Michelin LTX's on it'll climb most things without hassles. It has Sorpion Evo suspension, and the extra droop travel and the detroits make it fantastic off road, and no chewed out cross shafts anymore!
I'm going to fit front and rears in my RR when it gets the Defender diffs under it.Eventuallly.

JC

[LRHybrid100]

pretty sure marcle aka defute and LRH are also running std axles.
cheers phil

Yup still running standard axles - will upgrade if / when they brake!!!

Defute and I both have autos behind our Tdis - so less chance of snapping.

LRH

[cartm58]

the other question one should ask is how often are you actually going to use them

in trips to cape york, across the simpson desert, birdsville track, cameron corner, ondatta, strezlicki, flinders ranges, lawn hill qld and gul country, NT all over, beach driving in SA and WA ledergerg gorge, great dividing ranges in Vic, broken hill, never had use for diff locker.

if your into rock ledge climbing or deep mud play yes you will probably want them

and its probably the rough way you play that places the diff under stress to break not the diff locker whether its air locker or detroit locker style.

l had a front ARB air locker fitted to a 1990 patrol 3 litre wagon used it once in 3 years on the vehicle havent bothered fitting one to the other 4wds l have had since.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yup still running standard axles - will upgrade if / when they brake!!!

Defute and I both have autos behind our Tdis - so less chance of snapping.

LRH
I think Autos would be worse. If there is a loss of traction then they can go up gears which would increase the speed, making thing worse when traction returns?