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shorty943
11th February 2007, 09:20 PM
There is lil ol me, with an Acer laptop setup as a server running Mandriva\KDE. And a nice new 64 bit Athlon at 3.8 Gb and 1 Gb memory about to get a new install of Solaris 10.

And JDNSW, don't know his distro, but he mentioned the Konquera browser in a post, so I know he is a KDE man.

Any other Landy owners like the security and stability of the Linux system?

Shorty.:cool:

Mick-Kelly
11th February 2007, 09:37 PM
I dont even know what it is !

Sandtoyz
11th February 2007, 09:37 PM
Yeah, I'm converted, except I've got a fair bit to learn/remember still...
Running Ubuntu 6.1 on my desktop, but set up for dual boot to windows xp, for occasional visits to the dark side...
Setting up a home server soon, Linux distro!

shorty943
11th February 2007, 09:52 PM
It is a computer operating system Mick. It is available as a freebie, as in free beer, it is secure from virus attack and can be made so secure from hackers it is used in the back rooms of banks, stock exchanges, and a lot of European countries are changing all there systems over to it. It will run on anything from an old 386 intel right up to an S390 IBM mainframe. In fact the Cray S3 super computer at MS head quarters, the one they use to write and compile Windows, actually runs on a variation of Linux called Xenix. You can even download an ISO file, write that ISO to a CD, and you have a bootable,full system that runs from the CD, and can be booted up in almost any computer, whether it has a hard drive or not. Google "Linux" and be amazed at the references you get.

Sandtoyz, gotta love the penguin.

Shorty.

dmdigital
11th February 2007, 09:52 PM
Too fiddly for me and it doesn't run Photoshop.

Well worth it if you have the time. That said if I continue down the path I am on with my home network, I'll be wanting a Linux file server before to long.

awabbit6
11th February 2007, 10:21 PM
Been playing with the Unixs for years. Mostly FreeBSD but looked and played with most others. Still have a BSD machine at work that I use for automated tasks that I've scripted and schedule through cron. Have to use windows for most of my work though. As a result most of my home network is Windows apart from my firewall.
Had a look at Solaris10 too - the longest OS install I have ever done. Seems pretty good, though the Sun interpretation of Unix has it's little quirks.

Blknight.aus
11th February 2007, 10:37 PM
been there done that... loved it...

however my time as a geek required i learn MS snot... and Im far to interested in rovering to bother relearning anything much past the basic os linux again... And if i switch over SWMBO complains cause she doesnt know the new one..

MacMan
12th February 2007, 05:34 AM
Had a play a few years ago and couldn't even get a complete build working. Was talked into trying it by a mate (all the cool people are doing it!) and it's a few hundred hours of my life I'll never get back.

Unless you have something specific to do with it, forget it. I was looking at the prospect of setting up a file and hosting server but I like the "pay someone else" option - gives you someone else to yell at when it falls over, and hosting is SO cheap these days it's not worth my time.

amtravic1
12th February 2007, 05:59 AM
I have a spare laptop on which I run Ubunto. Yes, I like it but my main pc,s run windows as the software I use for work wont run on linux.

Now, if everything I use worked on linux I would not use windows at all.


Ian

JDNSW
12th February 2007, 06:07 AM
Currently running Suse 10.1, previously Mandrake 9.2. Dual boot Windows 98, mainly to run a scanner whose manufacturer is excessively secretive and my accounts - too much trouble to migrate them.

Linux has the main advantage that it is almost totally immune to viruses (they exist, but none have ever spread, although why not is subject to some discussion) and inherently safer from other types of attack than Windows. Generally tends to be a lot more reliable as well. Because of the fact that the source code is open to anyone who wants to look at it there is far less dodgy programming than in commercial software and problems are likely to be found and fixed far more rapidly. It almost never crashes, and rebooting is never needed, and you never need to reformat your hard drive. In dual boot systems Linux can read and write to the Windows partitions so that you can, if you keep "My Documents" on a Windows partition, use them with either O/S

The drawbacks are that some hardware is poorly supported - usually because the manufacturer neither provides drivers for Linux nor allows anyone else to do so. Upgrading and installing additional software is often a lot messier, but the operating system as distributed includes a wide range of software meeting most users needs, although this usually means learning to use software that is slightly different to use than the Windows equivalent. For example, the Gimp is comparable to Photoshop, but very different to use. There are far fewer games that run on Linux, so if your main computer use is gaming, it is not for you. But the main drawback(?) is that it is not Windows.

Linux is far more varied than Windows - strictly speaking the name only applies to the kernel or basic operating system. Linux is usually supplied as "distributions" each of which is an assembly of the kernel plus hundreds of applications packaged together. There are two common (plus half a dozen other) user interfaces (KDE and Gnome), one looking a lot like Windows, one a lot like a Mac (Mac OS-X is actually a very close relative of Linux and getting closer).

Currently the most popular distribution is Ubuntu, which is bankrolled by Mark Shuttleworth as a serious alternative to Windows for developing countries, probably followed by Suse and Mandriva, but there are literally hundreds of distributions, most of them designed for specialist uses, although there are dozens of general purpose ones. There are several distributions aimed squarely at commercial users, notably Red Hat and Suse. Although the software is free, distributors make their money by providing support - but most home users can get support from other users or the on-line community if they want to. Some distributions are compiled from source code on the computer they run on, so that the system is optimised for the hardware actually being used. Most common distributions come these days on DVDs that are bootable to run the system from the DVD so that you can try it without any commitment.

Linux runs most large servers such as Google, and also runs almost all supercomputers, but can be configured to run (without most of the bells and whistles) on almost anything, including the computer you had to upgrade because it would not run Windows XP. (It cannot be installed on some older laptops that do not allow access to the boot sector of the hard disc).

John

Captain_Rightfoot
12th February 2007, 06:34 AM
I use Solaris 9 at work. Hopefully we'll get to ten soon.

I had a play with ubuntu a little while back but went another direction.

As I'm sure you all know I use a Mac with OS X which is essentially a version of BSD. I call it the flashest Linux distibution out. It has the advantages of linux with a to-die-for GUI and good hardware support. If anything isn't supported I can use linux gimp drivers :)

Sensational wrap up of linux JD :)

MacMan
12th February 2007, 06:39 AM
As I'm sure you all know I use a Mac with OS X which is essentially a version of BSD. I call it the flashest Linux distibution out. It has the advantages of linux with a to-die-for GUI and good hardware support.

Yep!

JDNSW
12th February 2007, 06:44 AM
I use Solaris 9 at work. Hopefully we'll get to ten soon.

I had a play with ubuntu a little while back but went another direction.

As I'm sure you all know I use a Mac with OS X which is essentially a version of BSD. I call it the flashest Linux distibution out. It has the advantages of linux with a to-die-for GUI and good hardware support. If anything isn't supported I can use linux gimp drivers :)

Sensational wrap up of linux JD :)

You might call OS X the flashest distribution of Linux out, but BSD is not Linux, although both are versions of Unix (as is Solaris).

John

Captain_Rightfoot
12th February 2007, 06:49 AM
You might call OS X the flashest distribution of Linux out, but BSD is not Linux, although both are versions of Unix (as is Solaris).

John
Yes, True... but that' kinda hard to explain to most people... :) However they are closely related. I really like this diagram here for explaining :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/Unix.svg/655px-Unix.svg.png

JDNSW
12th February 2007, 07:04 AM
Yes, True... but that' kinda hard to explain to most people... :) However they are closely related. I really like this diagram here for explaining :)


I like it too!

John

grumpybastard
12th February 2007, 07:08 AM
As I'm sure you all know I use a Mac with OS X which is essentially a version of BSD. I call it the flashest Linux distibution out. It has the advantages of linux with a to-die-for GUI and good hardware support. If anything isn't supported I can use linux gimp drivers :)


I had a play with OS X recently and man is that one nice OS.

Tempted to create a dual boot now that it runs on x86 hardware.

incisor
12th February 2007, 07:37 AM
why bother, i did and i think i have used it twice, both times to show someone windows running on a mac ... :P

grumpybastard
12th February 2007, 07:50 AM
why bother, i did and i think i have used it twice, both times to show someone windows running on a mac ... :P

I actually meant the other way round, OSX on a PC

JDNSW
12th February 2007, 07:56 AM
why bother, i did and i think i have used it twice, both times to show someone windows running on a mac ... :P

I would agree with you - if you have a Mac, why would you want to run Windows? But there are some people who are very much into games and this could be a reason, also could be attractive to those running Windows but thinking of changing to Mac.

John

Captain_Rightfoot
12th February 2007, 07:58 AM
I like it too!

John
I didn't mention... it's from wikipedia "unix". :)

JDNSW
12th February 2007, 08:10 AM
I actually meant the other way round, OSX on a PC

I'm not sure that is possible - it uses a different boot method (in hardware I think) that took some fancy software to get Windows to live with, and I haven't heard of anyone doing a workaround to get OS X to work on "PC" hardware. The Mac may use an x86 processor, but that doesn't mean the rest of the hardware is the same as a PC, probably deliberately, as Apple sells hardware as well as software - and when they first introduced the x86 hardware it was supposed to be impossible to get Windows to run on it. (Of course that meant everyone tried until someone found a way to do it)

John

cmurray
12th February 2007, 09:12 AM
Let us get one thing straight. Linux is not Unix it is Unix like, and is not allowed to use the Unix trade mark, which Free/Net/Open BSD are. I actually read a really good quote about the differences between BSD and Linux on friday!


BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC.



As I'm sure you all know I use a Mac with OS X which is essentially a version of BSD. I call it the flashest Linux distibution out.
I think this quote would **** quite a few BSD people off!

Now before you all start saying "what does this idiot know!" I have been a Unix Administrator for the last fourteen years, I've worked on System V, HP-ux, OSF1/Digital Unix/Tru64, DG-ux, SunOS, Solaris, SCO and have specialised on AIX for the last eight years.

To finish on a lighter note, a cartoon that I've always liked!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/02/217.jpg

incisor
12th February 2007, 09:37 AM
I think this quote would **** quite a few BSD people off!

never......

propaganda is a marvellous thing...

incisor
12th February 2007, 10:00 AM
Linux has the main advantage that it is almost totally immune to viruses (they exist, but none have ever spread, although why not is subject to some discussion) and inherently safer from other types of attack than Windows.
i love this furphy, yes very few viruses (in the windows sense of the word) on linux, no argument, why, it is too easy to get access other ways eg thru services running on the system...sendmail, bind, mysql, php on an apache server running on the box are the most common, but there is many many others...

NO freely available operating system is immune unless it has been hardened or specifically setup for certain tasks... and the average joe with his suse, fedora, debian, mandrake or with a *bsd disc in his hand has no clue how to harden the box before it goes on the net.. nor do they really want to know...

shorty943
12th February 2007, 02:18 PM
Oops, that started something. Sorry.:angel:

Suse and Ubuntu are a couple I have had trouble with. Most people do, if they don't check HCL's etc.

Had a nightmare recently, trying to get a Canon Pixma to work under Ubuntu.

Now that I have learned to stick with certain types of hardware, that is friendly to both systems, MS and *nix, I think a dual boot on a decent system, behind a properly configuered firewall etc, good for me at least. I don't play most of the games the rest of the world seems to anyway, Gimp is a good, quirky, but good graphics package, Open Office does all I need it to, Amarok for music, Kaffeine for video, and more versions of solitare than windows has ever seen.

I like it, I'll keep using it, didn't mean to start a fued, just curious to know if any others were Linux users, as well as MS.

Shorty.

DarrenR
19th February 2007, 08:58 PM
Any other Landy owners like the security and stability of the Linux system?

Shorty.:cool:

Yes, I build and maintain Linux (Debian) servers for a living :) Two things I'm happy to chat about all day long, Land Rovers & Linux. Now how to combine the 2... hrmmm

Best regards
DarrenR

shorty943
20th February 2007, 11:06 PM
Biggest problem I have combining the two, is my Landy is a Series model. :D Doesn't actually need a computer to help it go. Nothing happens fast enough to justify an old 386 watchdog. And anyway, how do you build a machine shock proof enough to cope with the Series suspension?:p

Shorty

JDNSW
21st February 2007, 05:41 AM
Biggest problem I have combining the two, is my Landy is a Series model. :D Doesn't actually need a computer to help it go......

But does need one to talk about it! As this forum shows!

John

Rovernaut
21st February 2007, 08:10 PM
Too fiddly for me and it doesn't run Photoshop.

Well worth it if you have the time. That said if I continue down the path I am on with my home network, I'll be wanting a Linux file server before to long.
Linux has GIMP, alternative to photo shop.There is a .Deb download called Gimpshop2. It is designed to rename the Gimp menus to read as photoshop menus to help people navigate through gimp as if they were using photoshop.

JDNSW
21st February 2007, 08:17 PM
Linux has GIMP, alternative to photo shop......

And The Gimp is also available under Windows. See - www.gimp.org/windows/

Comparable to Photoshop, but rather idiosyncratic, and vastly cheaper.

John

Rovernaut
21st February 2007, 08:25 PM
I switched form XP to Kubuntu 6.10.
Kubuntu does everything I need , office, use Firefox as browser, thunderbird for email. Gimp, and lots of other apps. Kcopy to copy my DVDs, K3B to burn
I have Win 2000 installed on a VMware server within Kubnutu to run a few things like Landrover Microcat and Rave.
(For the kids I have left dual booting with XP so they can play their MS games.)

DarrenR
21st February 2007, 08:40 PM
NO freely available operating system is immune unless it has been hardened or specifically setup for certain tasks... and the average joe with his suse, fedora, debian, mandrake or with a *bsd disc in his hand has no clue how to harden the box before it goes on the net.. nor do they really want to know...

As aposed to what? the average joe that has a Win32 based pc?

"NO purchased available Windows operating system is immune unless it has been hardened or specifically setup for certain tasks (even then it's highly doubtful)... and the average joe with his Windows disc in his hand has no clue how to harden (even marginally) the box before it goes on the net.. nor do they really want to know...

The "nor do they really want to know" is far more likely with a Windows based pc and a Windows user than it is with a *nix based box.

Best regards
DarrenR

incisor
22nd February 2007, 02:33 AM
apt-get reality_check!

with windozs they can go buy a security package for under 100 bucks and it is then more secure than most *nix boxes off the cd..

there are a couple of exceptions, and debian isnt one of them unless you do a base install... which is useless as a home workstation.

debian is a great distribution but by no means secure out of the box if you pick for example "workstation with x" as the install. the punters then have to learn how to harden it and play with services etc etc, you cant go and buy a $100 package that will do it for you like you can with windoze.

redhat suse mandrake etc all have the same weakness when aimed at the consumer market. prouser and server market is a different story...

linux and the other *nix variants are great for enthusiasts, who like to fiddle and learn how things work. the vast majority of people have absolutely no interest in how it works, just that it works with a point and a click and they feel secure if they spend that 100 bucks getting it there... thats why windows is where it is... no 1 by 5 country miles, it is all in the perception and marketing, with a dab of reality....

FYI, i was a debian consultant for years and was a pretty big believer in the dream, not that it means anything these days... i also ran a rather successful isp on it for years so i have a little knowledge in the area IMHO.

i moved my interests to freebsd as it much more secure in a commercial environment in much less time and requires a lot less maintenance when online. I still do a few debian installs for customers that prefer linux, and still love its good bits.... much much better distrubtion than anything rpm based IMHO.

incisor
22nd February 2007, 02:45 AM
I switched form XP to Kubuntu 6.10.
Kubuntu does everything I need , office, use Firefox as browser, thunderbird for email. Gimp, and lots of other apps. Kcopy to copy my DVDs, K3B to burn
I have Win 2000 installed on a VMware server within Kubnutu to run a few things like Landrover Microcat and Rave.
(For the kids I have left dual booting with XP so they can play their MS games.)

but do you know how secure it is out of the box? do you know if sshd is ruuning on the box? do you know how to edit or control what services are running?

do you know what tcp extentions are or inetd.conf is or what you can control with the hosts.allow file or know how to setup sshd so only a certain user can access from the outside world or only access it from certain machines?

if you do then you have taken way more interest in it than most do, as these are important files when securing a linux box.

my argument isnt that it doesnt work, it certainly does work, my argument is that in most cases it is no more secure than windows out of the box. sure it doesnt have the virus worry that windozs does, but linux boxes are compromised just as easily as windows boxes if they arent setup properly...they are just compromised a different way ...

DarrenR
22nd February 2007, 10:31 AM
incisor,
Your first comments were generalising, I simply substituted the words "Linux, *nix" with the word "Windows", and it all still made sense, but generalising all the same.

points to note;
The average Joe Windows user doesn't go out and buy a "security package for under 100 bucks". If they do most drop it after so many months of either not understanding the pop-up messages or having intermittent problems such as "I can't surf the internet", "I can't get mail" etc etc.

The "security package" will often lead the average Joe Windows user into a false sense of the O/S being secure. I've lost count of the number of customers that bring in a Win32 based computer and say "there is something wrong with it, but I have such-n-such brand internet security installed, so I know it's not virus or malware related" to find that it actually was virus/malware related.

Your comments; "Linux and the other *nix variants are great for enthusiasts, who like to fiddle and learn how things work. the vast majority of people have absolutely no interest in how it works, just that it works with a point and a click and they feel secure if they spend that 100 bucks getting it there... thats why windows is where it is... no 1 by 5 country miles, it is all in the perception and marketing, with a dab of reality...."

Yes, correct.... I completely agree with all of your above statement. Your CORRECT key points being;

"the vast majority of people have absolutely no interest in how it works, just that it works with a point and a click"

("The vast majority of people" being Windows users).

"linux and the other *nix variants are great for enthusiasts, who like to fiddle and learn how things work."

Therefore my statement "nor do they really want to know" is far more likely with a Windows based pc and a Windows user than it is with a *nix based box." holds true.

Most Windows based computers that come to me have a virus/malware related issue.
I don't subscribe to the BS "Linux, Mac don't get viruses".
I'm not a believer in the Linux dream.
I don't use a Linux GUI, if you want pretty pretty desktop, stick to Windows, it looks far more pretty and plug-n-play actually works.
I only ever do net installs and only install what I need.
So many ISPs I have seen have little to no clue on what security means with their biggest problem areas being DNS and mail regardless of the O/S.
Yes I'd agree Debian is a better distro than anything rpm based.

Best regards
DarrenR

incisor
22nd February 2007, 10:42 AM
"the vast majority of people have absolutely no interest in how it works, just that it works with a point and a click"

("The vast majority of people" being Windows users).

they are windows people only because it is point and click and easy to buy stuff for, thats the whole point :P

DarrenR
22nd February 2007, 11:15 AM
they are windows people only because it is point and click and easy to buy stuff for, thats the whole point :P

Well no, your original (generalised) point was *nix straight out of the box is not secure and *nix users have no clue how to harden a box nor do they want to know.

My point was the same generalisation can be applied to a Win32 box and that "nor do they really want to know" is far more likely with a Windows user.

Best regards
DarrenR

Captain_Rightfoot
22nd February 2007, 01:13 PM
I don't subscribe to the BS "Linux, Mac don't get viruses".

Best regards
DarrenR

Just out of interest, how many OS X viruses have you actually seen present on a computer in front of you? What about OS X and spyware?

I'm just interested as I haven't found a mac user yet that has had a virus. UOQ use a lot of macs and occasionally they think someone has a virus but it's always a mis-diagnosis. :)

incisor
22nd February 2007, 01:29 PM
Well no, your original (generalised) point was *nix straight out of the box is not secure and *nix users have no clue how to harden a box nor do they want to know.

My point was the same generalisation can be applied to a Win32 box and that "nor do they really want to know" is far more likely with a Windows user.

Best regards
DarrenR

think you better reread what i said, that really isnt what i meant at all... but lifes to short for lost translations...

DarrenR
22nd February 2007, 01:54 PM
think you better reread what i said, that really isnt what i meant at all... but lifes to short for lost translations...

Your original comment to which I replied to was;
"NO freely available operating system is immune unless it has been hardened or specifically setup for certain tasks... and the average joe with his suse, fedora, debian, mandrake or with a *bsd disc in his hand has no clue how to harden the box before it goes on the net.. nor do they really want to know..."

I really don't see what you said can be lost in translation.
But I'll take it as I simply missed your point and move on (I just wanted the last post lol (only joking, really I am... )).

Best regards
DarrenR

incisor
22nd February 2007, 01:56 PM
i will let you have the last post, if you really want it....

really i will :angel::D:D:D:D

DarrenR
22nd February 2007, 02:05 PM
Just out of interest, how many OS X viruses have you actually seen present on a computer in front of you? What about OS X and spyware?

I'm just interested as I haven't found a mac user yet that has had a virus. UOQ use a lot of macs and occasionally they think someone has a virus but it's always a mis-diagnosis. :)

To be fair, none... and none.
It's just this whole thing I often get from business clients that use MACs of "they don't/can't get viruses", "thats why we only use MACs on our network" (to which I ponder that there is a Linux box as their Gateway, but anyway, they don't know that so it doesn't matter).

Best regards
DarrenR

DarrenR
22nd February 2007, 02:13 PM
i will let you have the last post, if you really want it....

really i will :angel::D:D:D:D

Yeah that's right.... stubborn bloody Land Rover owner..... :angel: :D :D

Best regards
DarrenR

JDNSW
22nd February 2007, 07:38 PM
..............
my argument isnt that it doesnt work, it certainly does work, my argument is that in most cases it is no more secure than windows out of the box. sure it doesnt have the virus worry that windozs does, but linux boxes are compromised just as easily as windows boxes if they arent setup properly...they are just compromised a different way ...

I asked my brother (in Houston) to have a look at your post and comment on it. He has been a system administrator on various *nix systems (mainly Solaris and Linux) as part of his business (primarily running high end graphics systems doing geophysical interpretation) for years, and has in recent years moved everything to Linux including all his (small) company's desktops and laptops. His company has recently been doing consulting work for the largest geophysical company in the world - and they run almost everything on linux including most of their desktops (Suse). So presumably he has some background.

This is his comments:-

"He's right in one sense -- FreeBSD is probably more secure in some ways than
Linux. *On the other hand, most Linux distributions I've installed insist on
at least having a password for the root account, and on having at least one
user account. *Many do tend to automatically start all sorts of unnecessary
services, some of which can be dangerous: an FTP server, for example. *But
I've run a Linux system directly connected to the internet with a high speed
connection for years without incident (with modest precautions such as
careful checking of services running, and a firewall).

On the other hand, my new laptop, with Windows XP installed, booted the first
time into a setup wizard which led me to setting it up with a user account
with full administrator privileges and no password, and by default had no
firewall and file sharing turned on.

I'm pretty sure the number of viruses (etc.) observed in the wild which attack
Linux is less than ten (total), whereas the total for windows is many
thousands -- so to equate any version of Linux with Windows is just silly."

He advises me that he has now installed Gentoo on his new laptop, although he did have problems getting XP to coexist with it. Not sure why he kept the XP, probably for the benefit f his wife, whose company uses Windows.

John

incisor
22nd February 2007, 08:59 PM
[I]"He's right in one sense -- FreeBSD is probably more secure in some ways than
Linux. *On the other hand, most Linux distributions I've installed insist on
at least having a password for the root account, and on having at least one
user account. *Many do tend to automatically start all sorts of unnecessary
services, some of which can be dangerous: an FTP server, for example.
is he inferring freebsd doesnt?, if so it is a very erroneous presumption, as for the linux root password, some, but definetly not most distributions will not accept the enter key as the root password.. as for ftp, that is a very minor worry, most linux boxes are comprised by the "lEEt" set using ssh or via code in a web page using a browser, and you certainly dont need root access to do the damage...

*But
I've run a Linux system directly connected to the internet with a high speed
connection for years without incident (with modest precautions such as
careful checking of services running, and a firewall).
my point exactly!, it has been secured or hardened to some degree, same effect as a windows user installing a $100 internet security suite.

On the other hand, my new laptop, with Windows XP installed, booted the first
time into a setup wizard which led me to setting it up with a user account
with full administrator privileges and no password, and by default had no
firewall and file sharing turned on.
odd version of xp to have file sharing turned on by default but whats the difference when it is all said and done? he just admitted above he had to harden linux to put it on the net safely did he not?

I'm pretty sure the number of viruses (etc.) observed in the wild which attack Linux is less than ten (total), whereas the total for windows is many
thousands -- so to equate any version of Linux with Windows is just silly."
that dam virus fixation again, like i keep saying viruses are a windows security problem, they are a method, a means to an end. they are not irrelevant when talking about *nix security, but you dont need them to get or abuse access on a linux or *nix system that hasnt been secured or hardened.... thats the whole thrust of my side of the discussion...

but really, its like banging your head on a brick wall. get over the virus thing, its a security thing... saying linux has no virus issues is an irrelevance...

the easiest way to compromise a windows system is to infect it with a virus or trojan and thats why they do it that way...

the easiest way to compromise a *nix system is thru one of the system services and dropping a trojan or a rootkit, and thats why they do it that way...

the same ends are achieved, using different methods...

and it is just as easy to do it to either if they havent been secured..

both can be pretty much prevented, on windows with a $100 security package, on a *nix box with some time and knowledge...

and that is my point....

plonk!

shorty943
25th February 2007, 11:34 PM
I've been away, what's happenin fellahs?:D
Still all a-fever with virii, are we?:twisted:

Sorry Dave. I see the flames are still being fanned.:(

I tried BSD some time back, quite liked it, just not what I needed. I suppose the idea of not being tied to a corporate, appeals to me in Linux. It is still the geeks plaything to a big extent, for the desktop, and I like the newer roll your own versions coming up. Don't play games? Don't need direct media. Play DVD's? Hmm, do need direct media. Can't count? Don't need calculator. Or do I?

I'm still waiting for my copy of Solaris 10, to arrive from Sun Microsystems. So that is one system I want to try out.

And of course, I am really waiting for the PS3 to come out. If that is as good as the early publicity. It might be my only computing device, by the end of this year. Three 8 way proccessors, Linux OS, Web browsing means WebApps,and it plays games too. Yummy.:cool:

Shorty.

incisor
25th February 2007, 11:52 PM
I tried BSD some time back, quite liked it, just not what I needed. I suppose the idea of not being tied to a corporate, appeals to me in Linux. It is still the geeks plaything to a big extent, for the desktop, and I like the newer roll your own versions coming up. Don't play games? Don't need direct media. Play DVD's? Hmm, do need direct media. Can't count? Don't need calculator. Or do I?

I'm still waiting for my copy of Solaris 10, to arrive from Sun Microsystems. So that is one system I want to try out.
how do you equate paragraph 1 with paragraph 2 ?

am not a gamer so the ps3 will be something i see when i visit my grandson, his father is a game machine nutter... ps1, ps2, atari lynx, nintendo in 5 flavours etc etc etc..

me i something like serious sam episode 2, blood and guts and stress relief, minus the brain cell exercises....

shorty943
26th February 2007, 12:58 AM
how do you equate paragraph 1 with paragraph 2 ?

am not a gamer so the ps3 will be something i see when i visit my grandson, his father is a game machine nutter... ps1, ps2, atari lynx, nintendo in 5 flavours etc etc etc..

me i something like serious sam episode 2, blood and guts and stress relief, minus the brain cell exercises....

I think you refer to the ramble "don't play games? etc", that is my jocular way of describing the various new roll your own Linuxii?

Personally, I do play a racing sim "Live for speed" on PC, but do not at all care for the shoot em ups and the like, that a lot of people seem to play.
(Must have something to do with being shot at too many times for real.)

I own a PS2 and any Speedway game is my fun there. I keep wearing out the throttle pedals on wheel sets. Never the brake, just the throttle.

The PS3 fasinates me as a potential mini personal super computer, of sorts. If the hype is half true. Although, today I heard a disturbing remark, that the PS3 might require "chipping" to run PS2 games.

Has this cleared up some confusion, or have I hung my monitor upside down again?:p

Shorty.

raceer
3rd March 2007, 09:07 PM
Any other Landy owners like the security and stability of the Linux system?
Shorty.:cool:

Long time lurker, have not been here much. Does a mac count ? Have had one in my rangie for a long while now. Have replaced stereo,stacker etc., and could not be happier.

Been using macs for ages and would not go back. Having a unix background does help but is not a prerequisite.

B4 I start a os war....

p38arover
4th March 2007, 05:21 AM
Long time lurker, have not been here much. ..


Hello, James. Haven't heard from you in ages.

Ron

loanrangie
6th March 2007, 10:56 PM
Well i guess what my wife is always saying has come true, i have become a geek, i just installed Ubuntu as a dual boot on my pc.So far so good except i dont like the method of installing programs thru the terminal.

Captain_Rightfoot
6th March 2007, 11:04 PM
Well i guess what my wife is always saying has come true, i have become a geek, i just installed Ubuntu as a dual boot on my pc.So far so good except i dont like the method of installing programs thru the terminal.
hmmm could be called security ;)

loanrangie
12th March 2007, 09:18 PM
In case anyone is interested, the latest copy of PC user has a copy of the Linux Ubuntu live cd as a freebie, the os can be used straight of the disc without being installed.

DarrenR
12th March 2007, 09:33 PM
In case anyone is interested, the latest copy of PC user has a copy of the Linux Ubuntu live cd as a freebie, the os can be used straight of the disc without being installed.

Just to add some more info...
People can also go here and download or request a free CD of Ubuntu.
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

Every so many months or so I get a few hundred and give them out free to interested people.

Best regards
DarrenR

loanrangie
13th March 2007, 12:53 PM
Just to add some more info...
People can also go here and download or request a free CD of Ubuntu.
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

Every so many months or so I get a few hundred and give them out free to interested people.

Best regards
DarrenR

I downloaded a cd but the mag version is the live version of 6.10 which isnt available as a download that i could see. I'm liking Ubuntu, going to build a 2nd pc just to play with it.

DarrenR
13th March 2007, 01:23 PM
I downloaded a cd but the mag version is the live version of 6.10 which isnt available as a download that i could see. I'm liking Ubuntu, going to build a 2nd pc just to play with it.

Once you download and burn to disk, Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft Desktop) installation CD is also a Live-CD.

Best regards
DarrenR

Mick-Kelly
13th March 2007, 01:41 PM
Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a laptop notebook whatever as long as its portable that is capable of running Ubuntu. I want to experiment with this Linux stuff but im a complete computer noob and i dont want to risk my main computer. What are the system requirements etc. for linux. The machine would only be used to play with the OS and maybe backup my pictures. Are there computer markets in Brissy and what sort of thing should i be looking for?
A lot of questions i know.
Ta in advance.

Rovernaut
13th March 2007, 05:11 PM
Well i guess what my wife is always saying has come true, i have become a geek, i just installed Ubuntu as a dual boot on my pc.So far so good except i don't like the method of installing programs thru the terminal.

Hi mate, The Ubuntu 6.10 version should be available ( edgy Eft), that's where I got it from.
As for installing stuff.
Have a look in the package mangers with in the system.
like Adept, or synaptic.
open them up and check out whats in the repositories. If you want to install something, then click it and mark install and click apply and it will install it.
Or you can install via konsole ( Konsole is Kubuntu) I can't recall what the ubuntu one is named.
If you go to the ubuntu site there is a wealth of community support for this distro.
If you want to know something then just post. You get a lot of replies.
Tell them your a newbie and they won't go with all the geek talk that you may not understand.
There are also a lot of tutorial on how to install stuff.
If you want to install codecs to play window media files, then an easy way is to install a program called AUTOMATIX2, it will automatically install these, and other stuff, like SUN JAVA, Frostwire ( like limewire professional) and other good stuff.
Good to see your having a try.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/03/179.jpg

Rovernaut
13th March 2007, 05:42 PM
Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a laptop notebook whatever as long as its portable that is capable of running Ubuntu. I want to experiment with this Linux stuff but im a complete computer noob and i dont want to risk my main computer. What are the system requirements etc. for linux. The machine would only be used to play with the OS and maybe backup my pictures. Are there computer markets in Brissy and what sort of thing should i be looking for?
A lot of questions i know.
Ta in advance.
G'day Mick.
If you get your hands on one of the Live CDs then you can use it on your main Computer.
It will not damage your system as nothing is installed.
You just need to set the Boot sequence to boot from CDROM 1st.
Then insert the CD, start the PC up and it will boot up the linux.
Play around with it as much as you like.
Then when finished turn of you PC.
Remove the Disk and all is well again as before.

Mick-Kelly
13th March 2007, 06:44 PM
How does one change the boot sequence. I went out today and got that magazine with the disk and ive also ordered some disks online. if i can find out the operating requirments i would like to set up my own toy laptop running on linux. I asume its going to need a CD drive at least :D

Rovernaut
13th March 2007, 10:20 PM
How does one change the boot sequence. I went out today and got that magazine with the disk and ive also ordered some disks online. if i can find out the operating requirments i would like to set up my own toy laptop running on linux. I asume its going to need a CD drive at least :D
You change the boot sequence by hitting the DELETE button on the keyboard as your computer is Booting up.
This will take you to the cmos settings.
Navigate to the boot settings and you will see CDROM , Floopy, Harddrive etc listed.
Just make the CDROM the 1st, ie up the top of the list and then hit save and exit.
Then reboot your PC, it'll then look for the CDROM as your fisrt boot order, if a CD is in the CDROM it will start reading it. if not then it will boot to your next, usually the Harddrive, and start normally.
Re operating requirements, insert the Live CD and you'll soon know if there are any problems with running your O/S. A lot of hard ware is supported and doesn't need any tweaking.
Dialup internet is a little harder as most are WINMODEMS, but if you are on ADSL or Cable with an etho cable then all is well straight from the box.
If your Modem is ADSL and USB supported then may be a little prob, as Etho is better.
I'm only running an AMD 2gig, with onboard graphics /sound and 768 Mg of Ram and it is fast enough.

Mick-Kelly
13th March 2007, 10:48 PM
Cool thanks for the help. Ive been looking at flea bay laptops/notebooks some of which are dirt cheap. It seems to be a gamble but if i can get a cheap runner with a cd drive and a power source i think i'll go that way as i would like to keep them seperate till i gain confidence. If its a successfull expirement then who knows.
cheers
Mick

shorty943
15th March 2007, 12:54 PM
Mick-Kelly, the system requirements for the base Linux itself, are actually quite modest. Most Linux distro's will install 386 binaries, that will work perfectly well on any IBM compatible 386,486,pentium1,AMD K series, and any later CPU's. There are some "optomised" distro's that will only run on Pentium\Athlon style CPU's, but those producers also use 386, as well. There will be applications, that simply won't work for you, if your CPU is not up to scratch, but that is all.

A second hard disk in the machine you have now, would also fit the bill beautifully. Install Linux to the second hard disk, boot Linux, and your entire Windows C\: drive, is just a click away on your desktop. Boot Windows, and it can't even see the Linux installation.

You won't need to worry about trying to use any MS Windows applications, they won't work anyway, unless you install virtualisation software. Bit complex, but basically it tricks the Windows program into thinking Windows is driving it.
Linux has an application repository or data base, of over 60,000 current running applications.
Use Open Office, instead of MS Office. Web browsing is built into the native file browser, no Win Explorer and IE, use the one file browser for all things. It even displays graphics, text docs, PDF's, etc, all in the one browser. For graphics and photo work, use Gimp2. The movie Shrek2, was produced using Gimp2, a free as in beer application.Amarok for music, Kaffiene for multi-media. Audacity for audio manipulation.
Google, "sourceforge" for a taste of the depth of programs for Linux. I even have NASA toys for aerodynamics experimentation, on my Linux box.
The biggest hurdle for newbies, is the configuration of your personal system, and even hardware probing and config, is getting almost as user friendly as Windows. Lots of hardware vendors, are now at last seeing the light, and the hardware detection routines and config "deamons" (Wizards in Windows) are getting quite good.

Give it a go, and enjoy virus and hacker free computing. As long as you read the documentation, you will see the last of your Internet nerves float out the window. If you get stuck, there are many of us Linux users on this and many other forums. Just give a yell.

Shorty.

loanrangie
15th March 2007, 05:54 PM
Cool thanks for the help. Ive been looking at flea bay laptops/notebooks some of which are dirt cheap. It seems to be a gamble but if i can get a cheap runner with a cd drive and a power source i think i'll go that way as i would like to keep them seperate till i gain confidence. If its a successfull expirement then who knows.
cheers
Mick

Mick, once you have Ubuntu installed, do yourself a favour and install the KDE desktop enviroment (Kubuntu), all i can say is WOW ! I have just configured it and it really is an alternative to MS crap and even swmbo will enjoy using it as it can look like windows.:thumbsup:

Rovernaut
15th March 2007, 07:39 PM
Mick, once you have Ubuntu installed, do yourself a favour and install the KDE desktop enviroment (Kubuntu), all i can say is WOW ! I have just configured it and it really is an alternative to MS crap and even swmbo will enjoy using it as it can look like windows.:thumbsup:
Yep and when you learn to extract and install with konsole and script and install KBX, you can change your kicker, menu bar etc etc and have what Vista tried to copy from linux.
Have a squiz at www.kde.org , theme shots, wallpapers etc etc

Rovernaut
15th March 2007, 08:46 PM
Yep and when you learn to extract and install with konsole and script and install KBX, you can change your kicker, menu bar etc etc and have what Vista tried to copy from linux.
Have a squiz at www.kde.org (http://www.kde.org) , theme shots, wallpapers etc etc

should read www.kde-look.org (http://www.kde-look.org)

Pedro_The_Swift
18th March 2007, 09:13 AM
just for you penguin people---;)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2103846,00.asp

incisor
18th March 2007, 11:34 AM
Yep and when you learn to extract and install with konsole and script and install KBX, you can change your kicker, menu bar etc etc and have what Vista tried to copy from linux.
Have a squiz at www.kde.org , theme shots, wallpapers etc etc
vista tried to copy from linux?

you mean what vista tried to copy from gnome and kde which tried to copy from osx which tried to copy from OS/2 which used to be in a 32k rom on a 6502... and they call it progess... god bless em...

Rovernaut
18th March 2007, 06:40 PM
vista tried to copy from linux?

you mean what vista tried to copy from gnome and kde which tried to copy from osx which tried to copy from OS/2 which used to be in a 32k rom on a 6502... and they call it progess... god bless em...
Ah yeah, but some body had to to invent the wheel :D:D:wasntme:

Mick-Kelly
18th March 2007, 07:00 PM
Rightio gents I am the proud new owner of an old e-bay laptop. It is a bit limited compared to contempory gizmos but a large upgrade for itt is on the cards. In the meantime can someone suggest a LINUX OS that it will be capable of running. I dont think it will handle Ubuntu with it current memory or speed. Stats are below. Thanks in advance for my baby step schooling.

Processor - Intel Pentium 133 MHz
RAM - 16 MB High Speed RAM, 1MB Video RAM and 256KB Cache RAM
ROM - 256KB x 8 bit, Flash ROM
Card Slots - Two 32 bit card slots for Type II or one Type III PC card, 5V or 3.3V interface
LCD Display - 12.1 inch with 800 x 600 pixels
Disk Drive - Standard 1.44 MB drive - 3.5 inch
Hard Disk Drive - Internal 1GB, 2.5 inch IDE
CD Rom Drive - 8X Speed CD ROM Reader

Mick-Kelly
18th March 2007, 07:09 PM
One other question, the laptop is currently running Windows 95 and outlook etc. How do I wipe these to start with a clean machine?

Mick-Kelly
19th March 2007, 09:58 AM
Rightio baby steps, baby steps. I spent last night having a fiddle :p with this. Ive tried booting from a Unbuntu ISO CD into the laptop but it doesnt like it. It returns the following blurb.
bad or missing file A:\DRDOS\display.sys

then it prompts to hit any key. doing so gives me the following
bad or missing interpreter please enter valid filenme
eg. C:\command.com

I then downloaded a lighter version called puppy and tried booting from the ISO cd i burnt of that and i get the same messages. Does this mean i have to manually wipe the hard drive on the laptop before a distro will boot? The lappy is running Win95 at the moment. (retro cooooooool)

Mick-Kelly
19th March 2007, 02:54 PM
Bump, can anyone help get me past this promt or let me know what im doing wrong?
RIDE THE WILD PENGUIN !!!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/03/126.jpg

incisor
19th March 2007, 03:01 PM
woosh!

Mick-Kelly
19th March 2007, 03:26 PM
:p :p :p

Rovernaut
19th March 2007, 08:03 PM
Rightio baby steps, baby steps. I spent last night having a fiddle :p with this. Ive tried booting from a Unbuntu ISO CD into the laptop but it doesnt like it. It returns the following blurb.
bad or missing file A:\DRDOS\display.sys

then it prompts to hit any key. doing so gives me the following
bad or missing interpreter please enter valid filenme
eg. C:\command.com

I then downloaded a lighter version called puppy and tried booting from the ISO cd i burnt of that and i get the same messages. Does this mean i have to manually wipe the hard drive on the laptop before a distro will boot? The lappy is running Win95 at the moment. (retro cooooooool)
Maybe you have a bad disc burn???
other than that this is how you boot up the disc.

1st you need to set the boot sequence of your PC.
you must enable CDROM to be your first item in the list of boot order.
To do this hit the DELETE key on you keyboard as you boot the computer up. This will take you into BIOS. Navigate to the boot settings and change them there.
2nd. Insert the Ubuntu disc and start up your computer.
It should then boot to the ubuntu live disc.
3. To install hit the install icon and follow the prompts.
during the install it will ask you if you want to erase the hard drive.
If you want to get rid of that windows95 then choose ok and it will erase and format the hard drive ans start the installation

shorty943
29th March 2007, 01:57 PM
Rightio baby steps, baby steps. I spent last night having a fiddle :p with this. Ive tried booting from a Unbuntu ISO CD into the laptop but it doesnt like it. It returns the following blurb.
bad or missing file A:\DRDOS\display.sys

then it prompts to hit any key. doing so gives me the following
bad or missing interpreter please enter valid filenme
eg. C:\command.com

I then downloaded a lighter version called puppy and tried booting from the ISO cd i burnt of that and i get the same messages. Does this mean i have to manually wipe the hard drive on the laptop before a distro will boot? The lappy is running Win95 at the moment. (retro cooooooool)

Mick.

It sounds like your burner software is not playing nice with the ISO file. An ISO is an image of a disk, in a single file. Use Nero to burn the ISO, click "burn ISO to disk, when complete, the disk should have a bunch of directories and files on it, not just 1 ISO file.

1 It returns the following blurb.
bad or missing file A:\DRDOS\display.sys
This indicates to me, the machine is set to boot:- A: (floppy) first, then hard disk, and Optical drives last. To boot from CD, change the boot device order in BIOS. My machines are all set in BIOS to boot, floppy, CD\DVD, First hard disk. In that order.

2 bad or missing interpreter please enter valid filenme
eg. C:\command.com
This is a Win95 hang. It harks back to the days of DOS. Refresh Win95?

You should not have to format the hard drive just to boot from a CD\DVD.
All "live" CD's I have used, give no problems at all, in this respect, and will give access to the Windows drive once booted.
Puppy, and DSL (Damn Small Linux) work beautifully, on almost any IBM clone PC. Check the PuppyLinux and DSL threads at "LinuxQuestions.com".
Both run as a live CD, that is, the whole OS is run from the CD, no instalation is required. DSL, all 38 MB of it, will actually load in its entirety into system RAM, this gives a system that is blindingly fast, even in older machines.You can then remove the CD from the machine and have access to the CD drive for other purposes.
Hope this helps some.

Shorty.

incisor
29th March 2007, 02:09 PM
drop the thing into the shop and i will install debian on it for you mr mick...

shorty943
29th March 2007, 02:13 PM
Oooh. The full on geeky hackers distro.:cool:
Nice one Inc. Rock solid, and reliable as a Series Landy.

Shorty.

Mick-Kelly
29th March 2007, 05:58 PM
drop the thing into the shop and i will install debian on it for you mr mick...

Will do, might be some time next week though. You can play with it for as long as you need then. Can drop your wheels off at the same time;) Will Debian cope with the ultra high specs of this machine? :p

amtravic1
29th March 2007, 06:35 PM
Hoping someone can help with this. I have a Toshiba Sattelite 5000 on which I run Ubunto. I need to reinstal windows as since the Vic Police have gone digital I need to reprogram my Icom ic400 to get rid of the 40 or so now useless channels. The software for this runs under windows.
Unfortunately the laptop seems to not want to boot from the cd drive so I can install windows as well. I cant work out how to change the boot order under Linux. With windows there was an option (with the Toshiba software) to allow to change the boot order.

thanks,
Ian

incisor
29th March 2007, 07:30 PM
have you looked in the bios for the laptop boot order options?

does the dist of linux you are using use lilo or grub or ? to handle the boot?

incisor
29th March 2007, 07:31 PM
Will do, might be some time next week though. You can play with it for as long as you need then. Can drop your wheels off at the same time;) Will Debian cope with the ultra high specs of this machine? :p
better than most... but you never know till you try with the penquin... if it dont go on i will freak you out with an install of freebsd :P

amtravic1
29th March 2007, 08:04 PM
Thanks incisor,
I have fixed it sort of. Took out and refited the battery and hard drive and now it lets me boot from the cd. Unfortunately the operating system that came with it is a recovery disk so the hard drive will be wiped and I will just instal linux on another partition later. There was not anything I needed on the linux system. Just something to play with.

Ian

shorty943
29th March 2007, 10:52 PM
Thanks incisor,
I have fixed it sort of. Took out and refited the battery and hard drive and now it lets me boot from the cd. Unfortunately the operating system that came with it is a recovery disk so the hard drive will be wiped and I will just instal linux on another partition later. There was not anything I needed on the linux system. Just something to play with.

Ian

Ian, isn't tech stuff fun some times. It won't work, you pull it apart, find nothing wrong, put it back together and the bloody thing works again.:(

You have also stumbled? onto the only way MS Windows will let you dual boot.
NTFS based systems will let you install almost anywhere on almost any drive in the machine. But the older FAT 32 based systems, must be installed to the first active or bootable partition of the first bootable hard drive.

Before re-installing, use "fdisk" in DOS to delete the Windows partition, then add a new Windows partition, but, only give it 2\3 or even only 1\2 of the disk space. When it is reformatted for the installation, Windows will not even understand it does not occupy the whole drive. You then install Linux into the rest of the drives space, during which time the Master Boot Record of the disk will be re-written, and you are given the option to choose a default OS to boot into.

She must be a veteran laptop, to be a W95 job.

Shorty.