Airlock TD5 radiator

[crump]

How do I know if I have one??

[ladas]

How do I know if I have one??

Difficult this one Steve, but if you drain, then flush with clean water, then fully, blow through the system with air to get all the water out,, not too much pressure though (I use nitrogen 'coz I don't have to pay for it) and fill up following the correct proceedure - you shouldn't have any problems. The amount of coolant should closely match the specs for your unit.

As I said in a previous thread, I always disconnect the heater hoses and blow those through as well.

When filling the D1, and the DII I am normally within 200 ml of the spec capacity.

[crump]

MMMMM, I know I asked the question before in another thread, but I'm 6 litres short after following the Rave procedure, expansion tank is full, if I open the top bleed screw, coolant runs out, doesnt get hot (by the guage or to touch on the short trips I've been game to do), and I'm thinking of doing another change, but I'm sure the same thing will happen again.

[ladas]

Steve

The Disco has drain points on the bottom of the block, which pretty much ensures all the old water get's out.

I doubt, if you have drained, flushed, and filled to the 'letter' you will have an air lock. However it's more likely that the drain process isn't getting all the water out, which would mean your anti corrosion/anti freeze/coolant is being diluted to below the spec.

That is why I............

1. Remove the heater hoses

2. Blow through the system with nitrogen (or air)

You will be surprised, and sometimes quite wet, at the amount of additional water/coolant comes out when blowing it through.

[ladas]

Oh another thing, when you do refill it, do it sloooooooowly

Ladas

[LandyAndy]

Hi Steve
On the Disco TD5 you need to unclip the overflow bottle from its retainers and lift as high as the hose allows to force the air out the bleed point in the top hose.
Check to see if its required in the Defender TD5.
Andrew

[ladas]

Hi Steve
On the Disco TD5 you need to unclip the overflow bottle from its retainers and lift as high as the hose allows to force the air out the bleed point in the top hose.
Check to see if its required in the Defender TD5.
Andrew

Andrew - yes, according to the instruction you do have to lift the expansion/overflow tank.

[crump]

Andrew - yes, according to the instruction you do have to lift the expansion/overflow tank.
not on the Fender instructions! As to Diluting coolant, its a 50/50 mix so all I could get in was 6.5 litres of coolant, so the mix should be right or over strength if anything.

[ladas]

not on the Fender instructions! As to Diluting coolant, its a 50/50 mix so all I could get in was 6.5 litres of coolant, so the mix should be right or over strength if anything.

Steve, in the TD5 instructions it certainly does. I'll email it to you.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ladas
The Defender may actually have the bottle mounted high enough,its quite different than the Disco setup.Thats why I mentioned its the Disco TD5 method.
Andrew

[crump]

got the email thanks Ladas, yeh the Fender procedure is different, the bottle is mounted higher then the bleed screw already.But that still dont answer the question, how do i get all the coolant out?? If I blow it with air wont I then definitely get an airlock when I refill?

[ladas]

got the email thanks Ladas, yeh the Fender procedure is different, the bottle is mounted higher then the bleed screw already.But that still dont answer the question, how do i get all the coolant out?? If I blow it with air wont I then definitely get an airlock when I refill?

No you won't.

If you have drained the system fully - what has replaced the fluid - yep air, so introducing at one end under pressure, with the other end open - will remove any water, and that's it. When you stop pumping air through - the air in the vacant space will just return, very quickly to normal.
, plus as said, I do prefer to undo the heater hoses, you don't really need to but the bottom of the heater matrix on most vehicle is very low, and the pipes go through the firewall at a higher level

Remove the bleed plug, and add the coolant slowly, take your time.

[Koukandowie Brangus]

Will have to have a crack at this myself cos i'm in the same boat as crump, it just don't make any sense where the coolant is hiding.

[crump]

ok, so i do it again, if I put a 40l compressor hose in the ex tank at low pressure is that enuff to blow it out?

[ladas]

ok, so i do it again, if I put a 40l compressor hose in the ex tank at low pressure is that enuff to blow it out?

Dunno about about putting the hose in the expansion tank - unless you can seal off the cap hole in the top of the tank sufficiently.

You can push the air through the bleed hole, or the small overflow pipe from the ex tank to the top of the rad. Or one of the heater hoses.

But only have one exit point open, preferably the lowest point, which I think is the bottom rad hose. - this will ensure the air will push through the whole system removing any water, make sure, if you have one, that the heater valve is open.

Low pressure 20 - 30 psi is good.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

hey...youve done the job......you flushed it out with clean water......you put the coolant in.......you started it.....and drove it....and it didnt overheat.....

let it cool and check the level again.......

when its at operating temp.......open the bleed screw slightly and carefully....if there is any air it will escape through there......


just keep your eye on the temp guage for the next day or two as you drive.....and recheck the level when it has cooled......

[ladas]

Still worth while disconnecting the heater hoses under the bonnet and blowing that seperately

[ladas]

G`day Steve

I could be wrong but it doesn`t sound to me like you`ve drained the block ?

If you didn`t undo the block drain plugs you haven`t got all the coolant out .

If you`ve flushed it with water and haven`t drained the block , what coolant is left in the block after mixing with the water is diluted .

Even with the new coolant at the correct mix because what is still in the block is diluted so will your new coolant mix be .

If you want the correct mix of coolant the easiest way would be to drain the entire system again .

Fill it the way you have , knowing the quantity it holds and how much it takes .

If you get the correct amount into it you don`t have to worry about air locks .

You`d be surprised how many people don`t have the smarts and/or knowledge to go about it the way you have .

They are unaware of any problem untill the damage is done .

Cheers

I don't think Defenders have drains on the block - or TD5 Disco's either

[crump]

I'm gonna drill one and plug it with the connector off the injector harness.:p

[ladas]

hey...youve done the job......you flushed it out with clean water......you put the coolant in.......you started it.....and drove it....and it didnt overheat.....

let it cool and check the level again.......

when its at operating temp.......open the bleed screw slightly and carefully....if there is any air it will escape through there......


just keep your eye on the temp guage for the next day or two as you drive.....and recheck the level when it has cooled......

Totally agree Zook, however quite a few are using ready diluted OAT coolant, and you can't get enough of it in unless the system is completely empty.

I guess the easy route would be, not to use ready diluted coolant.

Then the coolant will mix with the water left in the system.

However - the premix is diluted with distilled water - and I guess I am being a bit picky here, but in some area tap water is 'full of crap'

Just my slant on things, and that is why I follow the routine I do.;)

[ladas]

I'm gonna drill one and plug it with the connector off the injector harness.:p

Now there's a plan.

Strangely enough on my V8 there are drain plugs on the block, but even with those out - all the water doesn't come out.

[crump]

Totally agree Zook, however quite a few are using ready diluted OAT coolant, and you can't get enough of it in unless the system is completely empty.

I guess the easy route would be, not to use ready diluted coolant.

Then the coolant will mix with the water left in the system.

However - the premix is diluted with distilled water - and I guess I am being a bit picky here, but in some area tap water is 'full of crap'

Just my slant on things, and that is why I follow the routine I do.;)
I prempted things here, knew what it was supposed to hold, and measured what drained, so I basically put 100% coolant in to top up, so if I dont cook it that works, if I do, anyone lend me 12K??

[ladas]

I prempted things here, knew what it was supposed to hold, and measured what drained, so I basically put 100% coolant in to top up, so if I dont cook it that works, if I do, anyone lend me 12K??

No, and I am sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were using the 50/50 pre-diluted coolant.:(

I guess this thread may be helpfull for people who do want to use pre mix, or rather a warning for them not to.;)

[crump]

No, and I am sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were using the 50/50 pre-diluted coolant.:(

I guess this thread may be helpfull for people who do want to use pre mix, or rather a warning for them not to.;)
thats cos I dunno what I'm doing, but trying to learn, am thinking of doing a "TD5 service for idiots thread" in Projects, cos if I can do it any knob can.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

However - the premix is diluted with distilled water - and I guess I am being a bit picky here, but in some area tap water is 'full of crap'

Just my slant on things, and that is why I follow the routine I do.;)





thats all that ever gets used in workshops.......have you even seen any distilled water in a workshop.....?
or was it just a bottle that may have had distilled water in many years ago.....but is now used for tap water........?

even the batteries get topped up with tap water........


i have never seen any more than one 1 litre bottle of distilled water in any of the workshops i have seen......
and there was only tap water in it.......

you wont find anyone pouring 6 and 7 litres of the stuff in a cooling system......




im not saying you are wrong in what you are saying or doing.......quite the contrary.......you do all your research before you post......
just telling what actually happens if you take your car in for a coolant flush......


and...in my opinion.....
the premixed stuff is only good for topping up your coolant......not for refilling.....unless you have just assembled the engine and it
has absolutely nothing in it........

[ladas]

thats all that ever gets used in workshops.......have you even seen any distilled water in a workshop.....?
or was it just a bottle that may have had distilled water in many years ago.....but is now used for tap water........?

even the batteries get topped up with tap water........


i have never seen any more than one 1 litre bottle of distilled water in any of the workshops i have seen......
and there was only tap water in it.......

you wont find anyone pouring 6 and 7 litres of the stuff in a cooling system......




im not saying you are wrong in what you are saying or doing.......quite the contrary.......you do all your research before you post......
just telling what actually happens if you take your car in for a coolant flush......


and...in my opinion.....
the premixed stuff is only good for topping up your coolant......not for refilling.....unless you have just assembled the engine and it
has absolutely nothing in it........


Yes I guess you are spot on there, I guess that is why I always do my own coolant change.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

thats cos I dunno what I'm doing, but trying to learn, am thinking of doing a "TD5 service for idiots thread" in Projects, cos if I can do it any knob can.



anything you need to know about DIY servicing....just ask on here......
but allow a few days for people to get back to you......
ie....dont ask in the morning and expect to have the job done by lunch......

better off asking how to do something on a monday....and doing the job on a weekend.....this gives enough time to get all the necessary advice.......


these are the simple jobs you pay dealers big $$$$ for them to do......
then you get your car back and have no idea what has actually been done.....

if you do it by yourself.....you familiarize yourself with your vehicle.....and you will soon know whats what......or if anything is out of place.....and how to correct it....


have you done the rest of the service.....?

would you like a basic list of things to check or adjust on a service....?

[crump]

anything you need to know about DIY servicing....just ask on here......
but allow a few days for people to get back to you......
ie....dont ask in the morning and expect to have the job done by lunch......

better off asking how to do something on a monday....and doing the job on a weekend.....this gives enough time to get all the necessary advice.......


these are the simple jobs you pay dealers big $$$$ for them to do......
then you get your car back and have no idea what has actually been done.....

if you do it by yourself.....you familiarize yourself with your vehicle.....and you will soon know whats what......or if anything is out of place.....and how to correct it....


have you done the rest of the service.....?

would you like a basic list of things to check or adjust on a service....?
all oils and filters done, what adjustments??

[stevo]

when I did mine I flushed it out several times with tap water and the last flush I bought filtered water from the supermarket and used the concentrated coolant to fill it up knowing that it holds 13 ltr every time I drained and refilled would only take 8.5 ltrs.

you can never completely get it all out.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

all oils and filters done, what adjustments??



the main adjustment is wheel bearings and swivel hub preloads.......

the wheel bearings you simply jack up a wheel and rock it with your hands at 6 and 12 o clock......if there is excessive movement in the bearings.....you need to adjust them......
you can have a few mm of movement at the top of the wheel.....but if it moves more it is excessive......


swivel hub preloads on yours are still ok.....so you dont need to worry about them yet......

have you changed your brake fluid......?
its best done once a year........

[crump]

no, ok how? I got RAVE, is that going to explain it in knob terms??

[DEFENDERZOOK]

is the "no" for the brake fluid......?

[ladas]

no, ok how? I got RAVE, is that going to explain it in knob terms??

Go on Steve, you can do it - just apply logic, and read a lot :D

[crump]

is the "no" for the brake fluid......?


yep, cos thats the one that scares me, I hate bleeding brakes.Dunnit heaps of times with bikes but none of then had ABS.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

yep, cos thats the one that scares me, I hate bleeding brakes.Dunnit heaps of times with bikes but none of then had ABS.




if you can suck the old fluid from the reservoir it makes it easier.......
if not it doesnt matter........

start with the lefthand side and loosen the front and rear nipples so that the fluid starts flowing out........
or you can just do 1 at a time.....in this order.....LHR....RHR......LHF.....RHF.....


here is a step with a bit of importance........
NEVER LET THE RESERVOIR RUN OUT OF BRAKE FLUID.......!!!!!!!

or you will take forever to bleed the system properly again......
so....all that means is keep the reservoir topped up as it drains from the bleed nipples.....

when you have clean fluid coming from the nipples...close them and repeat for the righthand side.....

when you have finished......start with the LHR nipple and open it till there is clean fluid coming out.....
there mustnt be any bubbles or airgaps in the dribble....then close it again....this should only take less than 5 seconds for this step.....
then repeat for RHR......
then LHF......
and finally RHF......

now.....before you even start the engine....make sure you still have a brake pedal......
its no use jumping in starting it and throwing it into gear......only to find the pedal hits the floor as you are
reversing out your drive and gaining speed.......

thats all it takes.....its called gravity bleeding.....and dont forget to do the clutch as well.......same method.....but you need to open the nipple on the
slave cylinder......not the ones at the wheels......

the main thing is to keep the reservior topped up......if the level gets to the bottom of the reservior it will suck in air......and you will have no brakes.......

its best to use a brake fluid that is a different colour to what you have in there.....
so you can tell when the new stuff has flushed out all the old stuff by simply watching for the colour change at the bleed nipple.....

and use the correct grade of fluid from a sealed container.....it should be DOT4 from memory......



the other adjustment on the car is the handbrake......there is a bolt on the drum....turn it till it locks the drum.....
then back it off till the drum is able to turn again.....and see how far up the handbrake lever comes up.....

you will need to have the thing in neutral with one of the back wheels in the air to do this.....or the drum wont turn.....

also.....its best done with the handbrake off.....so make sure you have both front wheels chocked for safety.....
and never get under a vehicle supported only by a jack......

[byron]

.....it should be DOT4 from memory......





[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Correct;) ......it MUST be at least DOT4:) .......NOT DOT 3 [too low a boiling point for disc brakes:mad: ] and NOT DOT 5 [Silicon based fluid - too viscous:mad: ] ......

But it is preferable to get the newer specification "SUPER DOT 4" [it's much less hygroscopic:) - thus having a longer useful full spec service life:) , B.P remains the same though;) ]

[crump]

if you can suck the old fluid from the reservoir it makes it easier.......
if not it doesnt matter........

start with the lefthand side and loosen the front and rear nipples so that the fluid starts flowing out........
or you can just do 1 at a time.....in this order.....LHR....RHR......LHF.....RHF.....


here is a step with a bit of importance........
NEVER LET THE RESERVOIR RUN OUT OF BRAKE FLUID.......!!!!!!!

or you will take forever to bleed the system properly again......
so....all that means is keep the reservoir topped up as it drains from the bleed nipples.....

when you have clean fluid coming from the nipples...close them and repeat for the righthand side.....

when you have finished......start with the LHR nipple and open it till there is clean fluid coming out.....
there mustnt be any bubbles or airgaps in the dribble....then close it again....this should only take less than 5 seconds for this step.....
then repeat for RHR......
then LHF......
and finally RHF......

now.....before you even start the engine....make sure you still have a brake pedal......
its no use jumping in starting it and throwing it into gear......only to find the pedal hits the floor as you are
reversing out your drive and gaining speed.......

thats all it takes.....its called gravity bleeding.....and dont forget to do the clutch as well.......same method.....but you need to open the nipple on the
slave cylinder......not the ones at the wheels......

the main thing is to keep the reservior topped up......if the level gets to the bottom of the reservior it will suck in air......and you will have no brakes.......

its best to use a brake fluid that is a different colour to what you have in there.....
so you can tell when the new stuff has flushed out all the old stuff by simply watching for the colour change at the bleed nipple.....

and use the correct grade of fluid from a sealed container.....it should be DOT4 from memory......



the other adjustment on the car is the handbrake......there is a bolt on the drum....turn it till it locks the drum.....
then back it off till the drum is able to turn again.....and see how far up the handbrake lever comes up.....

you will need to have the thing in neutral with one of the back wheels in the air to do this.....or the drum wont turn.....

also.....its best done with the handbrake off.....so make sure you have both front wheels chocked for safety.....
and never get under a vehicle supported only by a jack......


so you dont havt to pump the pedal for ever first or have the pedal compressed when you crack the nipple?? IE, its a one man job.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

thats the way i change my brake fluid......

and all the other different types of cars as well......

every now and then you will get one that doesnt want to copoerate......
ie...you crack the bleed nipple and nothing comes out......on these i just slowly press the pedal
a few times to get it started......only half pumps.......

but yours should just drip out without any probs......

[LandyAndy]

Hi Tony
THANKS HEAPS
I wasnt game to tackle a brake fluid change due to the ABS etc,but after reading this Im confident of having a go.
Will get some fluid and have a go.
Andrew

[DEFENDERZOOK]

i do mine a bit easier....i have a brake bleeder.....it simply sucks out the old fluid from the reservoir.....
then i fill with the new stuff.......so when i open the nipples there is new fluid flowing through the plumbing straight away......

just saves a bit of time........



if any of you are really pedantic......you can go around and press all the pistons in the calipers all the way back before you start the process......
this will pump the fluid out of the calipers....so you will end up with a better job.......

just for the record......i never bother with this......

[LandyAndy]

Hi Tony
I have a "sheep drench gun" I got ages ago to suck the brake fluid thru the lines,never tried it but the idea was to fit the suction hose to the nipple and pump the fluid out.
I got it to do the brakes on my series landy,but managed to change the pads without changing the fluids,just didnt get around to flushing it out.
I wasnt confident to tackle the disco and was going to get the local mechanic to do it.
Thanks once again,Im drinking a pint for you:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
Andrew

[DEFENDERZOOK]

the brake bleeder i mentioned earlier is designed for this job..........
to suck out fluid from the bleed nipples....making it a one man job......

what i have found is that on some cars it creates a vacuum withing the system which gets trapped in there when you close the nipple
whilst the thing is still sucking......

this gives a soft or spongy pedal......which is quickly remedied by simply gravity bleeding and allowing the trapped air out.......


i just skip that step and go straight to gravity bleeding.......so......
i wouldnt bother trying to suck the fluid out from the nipples.....

just suck out the fluid from the reservoir.....then fill with fresh fluid and commence to gravity bleed the brakes.......

[justinc]

Good stuff 'zook,

The important thing to add here also is that D2's don't have adjustability of wheel bearings, they are a sealed hub. If there is ever any movement in them, it requires replacement immediately. Also, in the D2 it will usually set off an ABS fault due to the excessive play. In the Td5 fenders, there is also no user preload adjustment, as LR in their infinite wisdom have introduced a presized spacer between the inner wheel bearing races, and a single peenable locking nut. This is supposedly idiot proof, but I feel why change something that worked well? If your wheel bearings were serviced and adjusted by someone who knows what they are doing, there shouldn't be a preload problem. So, if the Td5 equipped Defenders have any wheel bearing end float, then there is a problem that needs rectification immediately, as the only reason the play appears is due to bearing fialure or the nut coming loose, either of which is undesirable.
Don't forget to mention the second worse job on a Defender, After removing the cooling system on a Td5, it is the primary park brake cable adjustment. If you've done one you'll know what I meen. I have shortish arms, and find it impossible to do without removing the rear tailshaft first, so I can get up in there!!
And it's good to hear people changing brake fluid regularly, especially ABS systems. It really is no different to non ABS except big hassles arise if you let the modulator valve block run out of fluid...I change brake fluids on a 20,000km basis, as it is easy and relatively cheap to do.
Also, The swivel housings need to be converted to oil and changed every service, Again, simple to do and cheap, but prolongs swivel chrome life, CV life and swivel bearings and in the case of ABS fenders, upper bushes and thrust bearings. Any water in there will make quick work of your wheel bearings also.

I think Steve(Crump) 's idea of a maintenance section is excellent, all in one place/thread. I'll be in that.

Oh, and after the hijack on cooling system air locks, I can add a hint here on bleeding, Landy Andy is correct on all accounts. A good way to flush these sometimes is to remove the bleeder in the top hose, run a medium to slow hose in the expansion tank and run the vehicle until the water coming out of the bleeder is clear. Also, run vehicle to operating temp and allow to cool a bit, then repeat. This will ensure the thermostat has opened and circulated the old coolant allowing it to be flushed out.
I even taste the coolant ( Just a little!!) to make sure all of it is out, as it looks clear but nay still have a fair bit in there.
Who's going to be the thread starter then?????
JC

[DEFENDERZOOK]

how many nips do you get in 13.5 litres......?

[justinc]

how many nips do you get in 13.5 litres......?

Ah, Please explain????

So you work in a bar?

Do I need to swill 13.5litres to find out??


Can I choose the liquid????

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

JC

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Good stuff 'zook,


I even taste the coolant ( Just a little!!)
JC




need i explain further......?

[justinc]

Ha! I'd forgotten I said that!! Kiddies, don't try this at home, Glycol based coolants can be fatal if ingested.....

NOW I get the joke, Thanks Tony....

JC

[JohnE]

bugger again
should have trolled around the otehr day and found this,
bled mine the other day, the old fashioned way, pump release etc
never heard of gravity bleeding.
the easisest way to get the older brake fluid out of the master cylinder is to use a 50ml syringe, is quick and easy,

john

[crump]

so do you just suck out the bulk of it from the master cylinder and then top up with new stuff and then bleed as per Zook.

[Redback]

I just flushed my rad on the weekend and according to the instruction for a complete flush/refill it was supposed to take 13ltrs, but even with the bleed screw out it only took 7ltrs, i lifted the tank and did excactly what the manual said.

While filling clear water was coming from the bleed hole on the top hose, so i waited till red fluid came out then put another litre through till it was the same red as i was putting in the tank and then stopped, all up just over 7ltrs.

I check the level every morning and afternoon and so far all is good, i've even opened the bleed screw but no air just red coolent.

Should i be worried:(

Baz.

[ladas]

I just flushed my rad on the weekend and according to the instruction for a complete flush/refill it was supposed to take 13ltrs, but even with the bleed screw out it only took 7ltrs, i lifted the tank and did excactly what the manual said.

While filling clear water was coming from the bleed hole on the top hose, so i waited till red fluid came out then put another litre through till it was the same red as i was putting in the tank and then stopped, all up just over 7ltrs.

I check the level every morning and afternoon and so far all is good, i've even opened the bleed screw but no air just red coolent.

Should i be worried:(

Baz.

Did you use pre-mix 50/50 diluted or undiluted coolant ?

[Redback]

I used the Nulon consentrate and diluted it to the spec on the bottle.

[ladas]

I used the Nulon consentrate and diluted it to the spec on the bottle.

We Baz if you mixed it 50/50 before you put it in, and you could only get 7 ltrs (3.5 ltrs coolant and 3.5 ltrs of water) of the mix in, and the system takes 13 ish ltrs - then the final concentration - is only about 25% - which is no good.

Unless you blow all the water out - that you cannot get out with standard draining - you should ad just the 6.5 - 7 ltrs of pure unconcentrated coolant.

You may have to top up with a small amount of water 0.5 ltrs +/-

[Redback]

OK, i'll see what i can do, i have a 5ltr bottle of consentrate in the garage, i might refill it again with that, i know it's waste but better that than $10,000.

Baz.

[ladas]

OK, i'll see what i can do, i have a 5ltr bottle of consentrate in the garage, i might refill it again with that, i know it's waste but better that than $10,000.

Baz.

Baz, if you can carefully drain 5 ltrs out of the old stuff, and replace it with the 5 ltrs of concentrate, then you should be about spot on.

13 ltrs @ 25% concentration = 3.25 lts of concentrate

After you drain off 5 ltrs

8 ltrs @ 25% = 2 ltrs of concentrate

Add the 5 ltrs of concentrate

= 7 ltrs of concentrate

About on the money.

[Redback]

OK sounds good to me:D

Thanks Ladas

Baz.