Cheapo hand winch

[HangOver]

I was just thinking about those wire "come along" winch thingy’s.
I saw one in supercrap for about $70 bucks or some thing like that, it said it's SWL was around 4500kg, but a tirfor (however it's spelt) costs 4 times as much and the SWL is about the same?

In those immortal words "Please Explain" ?

[Jojo]

In general, you get what you pay for, even when it comes to hand winches. A lot depends, of course, on the intended use. On the other hand, a cheap winch that won't do the job when needed isn't worth a single buck.
I have a Tirfor, slightly oversized for my vehicles, and am happy with it. Good to know it could -theoretically- lift the vehicle straight out of the mess:) .

[jimbo110]

I have a Tirfor, slightly oversized for my vehicles, and am happy with it. Good to know it could -theoretically- lift the vehicle straight out of the mess:) .

If your arms are big enough !! :D

[cookiesa]

Most of those types of winch are pretty useless. The reason is simple EFFORT REQUIRED!

Perhaps Jojo or someone with a Tirfor or similar could post a pick of the handle on one of the "proper" hand winches. (Remeber Archimedes? Hope spelling is right!)

I bought one of the cheaper cable one's once. Very hard work and very slow as the line pull is also fairly small. This means you need drag chain or something else that won't stretch to reach something suitable to winch from. Then you find half your winching effort/line pull goes in to taking up the slack before you have to reset the whole lot again!

[chazza]

We use Tirfor's in the SES to shift just about anything, including the Unit Cruiser, which the last time we did it, had the park brake on and 1st gear engaged. I dragged it over two pieces of 100x50 timber and a couple of bricks and so did the others in the Unit, including a 14 year old female cadet; the Cruiser was in our compound which was dry bitumen! In neutral with no brake on, the winching is very easy if somewhat slow.

It can also be used as a hoist, provided a strong enough beam can be found.

I recommend them very highly!

Cheers Chazza

[Bushie]

We use Tirfor's in the SES to shift just about anything, including the Unit Cruiser, which the last time we did it, had the park brake on and 1st gear engaged. I dragged it over two pieces of 100x50 timber and a couple of bricks and so did the others in the Unit, including a 14 year old female cadet; the Cruiser was in our compound which was dry bitumen! In neutral with no brake on, the winching is very easy if somewhat slow.

It can also be used as a hoist, provided a strong enough beam can be found.

I recommend them very highly!

Cheers Chazza

One of my last jobs witrh a hand winch we dragged a mates Holden Drover (remember them) up a fairly steep hill on Monkey Gum trail only to find the guy had left it in reverse, took a fair bit of effort but we did it. (Remember that one Numpty)

I've also used a T-35 to drag a 4x4 bedford truck sideways, they are a lot of work but pretty reliable.

Martyn


Martyn

[Tank]

I was just thinking about those wire "come along" winch thingy’s.
I saw one in supercrap for about $70 bucks or some thing like that, it said it's SWL was around 4500kg, but a tirfor (however it's spelt) costs 4 times as much and the SWL is about the same?

In those immortal words "Please Explain" ?
They ought to be thrown in Jail for advertising that pile of Crap with a SWL of 4500kgs. That would make the cable have a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) of 27000kgs, Safe Working Load (SWL) is figured as a Fraction of GBS in this case a Safety Factor (SF) of 6, i.e. 1/6 of the GBS is the SWL of the cable. A simple formula for working out the SWL of wire rope, in this case Galvanised High tensile 6 strand wire rope with a rope inner core (general purpose), measure the diameter of the wire, e.g. 10mm, formula for SWL is Dia. Squared X 10= 10x10x10 = 1000kgs SWL, for a winch or Tirfor rope add about 20% to this figure, because proper winch rope has 7 strand construction with the seventh strand replacing the rope inner core of standard wire cable, this is to prevent crushing when rolled thru pulleys or onto a winch drum. Most of the cable hand winches (cum-alongs) have about 6mm wire rope (dont know if it is 7 strand or not), so SWL would be 6x6x10 360kgs SWL, a far cry from the advertised SWL. Most electric winches on the market advertise the GBS of the wire rope as the Working Load of their winches, this is DANGEROUS and Probably ILLEGAL, always work to the SWL of your Cable and not the Ridiculous loads spruiked by winch manufacturers and sellers, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

I was just thinking about those wire "come along" winch thingy’s.
I saw one in supercrap for about $70 bucks or some thing like that, it said it's SWL was around 4500kg, but a tirfor (however it's spelt) costs 4 times as much and the SWL is about the same?

In those immortal words "Please Explain" ?
P.S. what should have alerted you to the ridiculous claim of the same Load as the Tirfor was the difference in the size of the 2 cables, the Tirfor's cable would have been twice the dia. of the cum-along, SIZE really does count, at least in winching, Regards Frank.

[Jojo]

Perhaps Jojo or someone with a Tirfor or similar could post a pick of the handle on one of the "proper" hand winches. (Remeber Archimedes? Hope spelling is right!)


Well, here comes the pic, the whole lot in the back of the Disco. The handle is a telescopic one and can be extended to double the length (not seen on the photograph, though).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/03/134.jpg

Cheers

[abaddonxi]

Have a look at this thread here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=31827&page=2&highlight=big+haul

I think that what Supercheap is selling looks more like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-TON-HAND-PULLER-CABLE-PULL-WINCH-COMEALONG-NEW_W0QQitemZ270098651779QQcategoryZ66937QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

I've since bought a third hand winch, smaller again than the other two. Can't help myself. If you keep a lookout on ebay they do come up at a reasonable price. Although, being in Tassie you're going to have to pay that much again to get it home.

Those little come along winches are probably fine to do something like pull your tinnie out of the water, but if you've got a couple of tonne of 4wd buried in the mud your looking at loading the winch up with a great deal of mass, inertia - The cable and winch are under a lot more strain with that much resistance, unlike a boat floating on the water.

Cheers
Simon.

[Outlaw]

also though is if you come down to needing a winch once in a blue moon then can also use a hi-lift jack... a slow job but also better than nothin if stuck in the crap with no way out

[td5110]

I used one of those come-along winches years ago to pull out a bogged G60 Patrol and the rachet arm bent. It just wasn't up to the load. Don't know if the modern models are made with the same soft steel

[cartm58]

Steven

I have a tirfor in my garage, if you want to look at it, see how it works, or a play with it let me know.

As for hi-lift jacks got one of those as well, personally think tirfor is the bee's knees

[waynep]

A good Tirfor type winch is useful for many other things as well.
I pulled the old stumps from a couple of 6inch trees out of the back yard a few weekends ago - great saved hours of digging.
But you need something solid to winch off- luckily I have a big 50ft pine tree in the back yard.

[HangOver]

Thanks for the offer but it was more of a curious question really.
I couldn't imagine one of those small winches having a 4 ton weight on them really. Sometimes things are just too cheap, that sort of sounds warning bells straight away. That's why I asked.
I think if I was going to lay out a few hundered bucks for a winch I would pay the extra and go electric. Well maybe.

Thanks anyway

Cheapest winch is to make sure someone else has one ;):D

[cartm58]

Steven, electric winch $2500 plus, second battery set up, Bull Bar mounting for it, maintenance requirement, for how many times you actually get to use it. I had a 9000lb high mount winch on my Patrols, it got used mainly for winching old railway sleepers off the track for a mates garden bed wall in Macedon, pulling out stumps in my sister block of land and winching softroaders from where they shouldn't have been.

If it was me l would shop around for second hand Tirfor, more versatile in mounting points, not as hard to use as others claim and just another box in the back to carry as being its biggest disadvantage compared to electric winch.

If l was tempted to spend $2500 plus, would be looking at diff lockers front and rear instead and rely on somebody else to pull you out if you truly get stuck anywhere.

[Utemad]

A month or two ago I pulled a Hilux out of muddy water in Beerburrum SF. He had one of those comealong type winches and he said he had broken it trying to recover himself. He had fixed it though and was still trying. Although he was very very happy to see me pull up and to have me snatch him out.

I didn't ask what actually broke though. We have them at work and I've used them to winch cars onto trucks/trailers before. No way in hell I'd use one for a 4wd recovery though.

[mcrover]

Its one of those things you wouldnt skimp on as it could be quite dangerous to you, your 4wd and the people around you so leave them to the jap bregade to use on their hiluxes and jackeroos.

Ive got a low mount Mile Marker on my disco but Im going to one day get a Tirfor as it is pretty hard to winch backwards when your winch in on the front.

By the way, ive pulled down a couple of 8 to 9" dia tree's from my back yard with the Mile marker and it did it easy with the cable up about 2/3s up the tree pulled them out roots and all.