Power brake conversion in a Series 3

[Tomkah]

Hi all,

I "found" a power brake assembly in a wreck I bought a week ago and I am wondering if it is worth putting it in my Series 3 SWB. Will that make a big difference?

Also, since my truck is a diesel and that thingo works on a vacuum from the inlet manifold on petrols, my manual suggest a "rotary exhauster"...O...K...:angel:

Where can I get one of those for cheap and where does it go and what drives it?

And lastly, somebody gave me what looks like an oval cylinder (probably 30cm long and 15cm across) and he mumbled something about "vacuum booster for the brakes", does that have anything to do with the power brake system?

Thanks,

Thomas

[DarrenR]

Not sure what you mean by powerbrakes, but if my memory serves me correct it was only the SWB that didn't have a brake (vacuum) booster. I had a PBR booster on mine and apparently this was quite a common addition to them. Dam good brakes, worth doing.

Unfortunately I don't have any part numbers or pictures (was in the days before digital cameras). Nor can I help with regards to a vacuum pump for your diesel.

I always found either a small local brake repair place or Repco to be quite helpful with info.

Hopefully someone has these details.

Best regards
DarrenR

[scrambler]

The cruise-controlled Discos (and some other things by inferior manufacturers) have vacuum pumps which might be suitable.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Thomas
Think I can help.
My last Ser3 was originally a diesel,it had a strange tank under the passenger seat.I later found it was a vacuum tank for the brakes(for the diesel motor,disconnected for the 202).
Not sure how Landrover tackle the "rotary exhauster" but jap diesels USUALY have a vacuum pump on the rear of the alternator.But they dont have an extra vacuum tank.
Im guessing perhaps the landrover "exhauster" isnt as powerfull and needs extra booster capacity,ie the tank you have been given.
Maybee a jap alternator along with a normal booster is the go.The only problem I can see is they need an oil pressure feed line and a return to the sump.
Goodluck
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Hi Thomas
An after thought,put 109 brakes on the thing,there is quite a difference between the 2.
Original 6cyl 109 brakes are bigger still,3" wide drums instead of 21/4" wide.
All interchangeable,if you go 3" drums you need the 3" backing plates as well.
Andrew

[JDNSW]

Power brakes are an improvement on the S3, but if starting with a swb, I would be inclined to fit the larger brakes off the 109 first and see how that goes.

Later model S3s had power brakes, at least on the 109 (optional at least on swb), and there are several different boosted master cylinders depending on whether they are dual or single circuit brakes and whether metric or imperial threads on the pipes. Many conversions to power brakes, at least for single circuit systems, used the VH44 remote booster from PBR. These were mentioned a year or so back here, and they are still available from some MG specialist in Sydney - sorry, can't remember the name.

But with a diesel, the problem is getting a vacuum. Diesel S3s with power brakes were fitted with a throttle valve that produced a vacuum in the intake manifold, and you should be able to find one of these at a specialist Landrover wrecker. I have never had anything to do with them, and I suspect that adjustment is critical, but it would certainly be easier to fit than a vacuum pump.

John

[LandyAndy]

Hi John
That explains the need for a vacuum storage tank on the Series diesels with power brakes.I guess that valve isnt too effecient.
Andrew

[DarrenR]

Power brakes are an improvement on the S3, but if starting with a swb, I would be inclined to fit the larger brakes off the 109 first and see how that goes.

Later model S3s had power brakes, at least on the 109 (optional at least on swb), and there are several different boosted master cylinders depending on whether they are dual or single circuit brakes and whether metric or imperial threads on the pipes. Many conversions to power brakes, at least for single circuit systems, used the VH44 remote booster from PBR. These were mentioned a year or so back here, and they are still available from some MG specialist in Sydney - sorry, can't remember the name.

John
Just as past experience, I've gone through the whole putting the 109 brakes onto a SWB, I found the improvement wasn't worth the effort (backing plates, cylinders, shoes, drums etc etc) this was also made more difficult and expensive as most places did shoes on an exchange basis.

PBR VH44, that's the one used on my SWB (I knew someone here would know), it was easier to do and the brakes were really good.

Still doesn't help with your vacuum hurdle though.

Best regards
DarrenR

[JohnE]

Can make any suggestions on landrover stuff but, since i did have a jap deisel this may help.

The alternator on the Na-Ng pajero diesels , the 4d55 and 4d56 motors, had a vacuum pump at the rear, that is what created the vacuum for the brakes. They are pretty sturdy, i don't know what a wrecker price is, nor what the output is, but i am sure it would work on the boooster your thinking of.

john

[LandyAndy]

Hi John
Ive got the turbo/intercooled 4d56 in my 88Trytoo4x4 dualcab(ex 92 pajahero).This is the setup I was refering too.The biggest proplem is the Oring between the vacumm pump and the alternator fails,the alternator then fails as it dont like oil AT ALL(especially fed under pressure!!!!!)Ours has done 3,I got a spare alternator,when things go pearshape the spare gets sent to Trevor for the rebuild,then only need to pull the original out and replace.Guessing you have had the PLEASURE:D :D :D :D POO OF A JOB!!!!!!!
Andrew

[Tomkah]

Hi all,

thanks for the answers. I attached a picture of the "rotary exhauster", maybe somebody finds one somewhere, just let me know or I'll keep and eye on ebay.co.uk

ummmm...make that "I tried to attach a picture but it won't work". It's on p.161 of the Autobooks OWM895 for those who are interested.

Cheers,

Thomas

[Killer]

Tomkah,

I have power assisted brakes on my Series III SWB (petrol) if you would like to drive it to compare with your non assisted brakes. PM if interested.

Cheers, Mick

[JohnE]

andrew,
forgot you had one, You mentioned it ages ago with the engine cleaning oil post. ( CEM)
I had mine out a couple of times. ( two engines) But only once for a rebuild , get this, the pump and O ring were fine it never leaked, prior to the rebuild or after it.The engine mounting hole was worn and had to drll it out to put a bigger bolt in it, bugger of a job. But always worked never had a problem with it.
Funnily enough the auto elec that did the rebuilt said the same, in his opinion very reliable units. ( you shire-ites would probably know him he is at menai, really nice bloke)

john

[Dunnie]

My 1972 swb had brakes that wouldn't have stopped a kid's trike on flat ground. I rebuilt the original equipment completely without any significant improvement. I then fitted the 12" x 3" front brakes from a 6 cylinder, replaced the pipes without all the odd LR bends that make them impossible to bleed and fitted a master cylinder with a booster. The brakes are now actually better than my '96 Defender.

I have a vacuum pump solution. They are available from the USA quite cheaply from (don't laugh, this is real) miamiambulance.com This mob do spares for the large Ford ambulances, as well as prosthetics, drugs and parts for your X-Ray machine if required. They do a belt drive oil-less pump that just needs Land Rover ingenuity to fit a bracket and a pulley to and off you go.

Best of luck!