Brake lines from the UK...problems?

[Tomkah]

Hi all,

I bought a set of copper brake lines for my 77 Series 3 SWB on UK Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Top-Quality-Land-Rover-SWB-Brake-pipe-set-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ300085405254).

Took a few emails but they eventually arrived and came in a kit, all nicely labelled etc etc. I have not installed them yet but I mentioned it to a fellow LR enthusiast and he said that I would have problems when I get my car registered. Can anybody confirm this?

Also, does anybody know the procedure on how to register a car in Qld that hasn't been registered for several years?

Cheers,

Thomas

[byron]

Hi all,

I bought a set of copper brake lines for my 77 Series 3 SWB on UK Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Top-Quality-Land-Rover-SWB-Brake-pipe-set-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ300085405254).

Took a few emails but they eventually arrived and came in a kit, all nicely labelled etc etc. I have not installed them yet but I mentioned it to a fellow LR enthusiast and he said that I would have problems when I get my car registered. Can anybody confirm this?

Also, does anybody know the procedure on how to register a car in Qld that hasn't been registered for several years?

Cheers,

Thomas

Well the problem's going to be that you shouldn't be using copper brake lines!!! - they're nowhere near as strong as the usual annealed, plated steel brakelines........So I guess your friend is saying they won't pass them from a safety aspect.

[p38arover]

Re copper brake lines, I remember one of my old cars had copper lines from the factory.

Ron

[byron]

Re copper brake lines, I remember one of my old cars had copper lines from the factory.

Ron

I think I've seen them on cars before - not sure if the were ex-factory or not, but I'd be very surprised if they allowed them now, on a new rego!:o

I wouldn't have them on any car of mine! - reminds me, I should go and check my 2a out of curiosity now!;)

[p38arover]

I wouldn't have them on any car of mine! -

They won't rust like steel lines. :D

Ron

[LandyAndy]

When I did my brakes on the Series3 I bought a roll of brakeline,mini pipe bender,double flare tool kit and pipe cutters.Made my own lines to suit,re-used the original ends.The tools have come in very handy since,Ive made new pipe sections on other vehicles,my Bro and several mates have borrowed the kit to do their own brakelines.
When ever I went off-roading in the Series I had a length of brake line (crimped at both ends to keep it sealed) and the kit with 2 joiners in the toolbox.
Andrew

[DarrenR]

Copper alloy lines have been around for as long as I can remember, they are quite legal.

But quite correct, you are not allowed to use copper pipe that isn't specifically made for use as brake lines.

QLD roadworthy;
Get your rego form from QLD Transport, fill it out.
Get the insurance, as in compulsory liability cover (this is the insurance you pay as part of your rego). Phone up Suncorp or whoever and ensure you get a receipt No. (When your finally get your LR to QLD Transport, you will only pay the balance).
Get your own insurance, third party property, fire & theft (whatever takes your fancy).

(If the vehicle is interstate rego’d, you don’t need the liability cover as the existing rego will cover this.)

Now you can LEGALLY drive the vehicle (and you are covered) to a mechanic that does RWC.

If the vehicle you purchased is not registered you will also need a Bill of Sale or some form of receipt from the previous owner (QLD Transport will ask for this).

I normally go over the basics before I take it to get a roadworthy (because if the mechanic doing the RWC picks anything you only have 14 days before 2nd inspection), did my Disco on Friday, it passed first time (much to the disgust of the mechanic).

The list is;
Identification (chassis, engine #).
Modifications (if any, a bulbar / towbar wont be looked at if it obviously isn’t some dodgy home made effort).
Seats & Restraints (they will pick rips in seats, obviously worn seat belts).
Lights & Electrical Components ( stop, tail, direction, reverse lights, heaters/demisters etc, (Lucas Electrics, GOD help you)).
Body & Chassis (rust, badly dented etc)
Steering & Suspension (tie-rod ends rubbers, no clunk clunk in components, excessive play, ball joint wear/leaks).
Wheels & Tyres.
Brake Components. (not leaking and don’t require pumping to stop)
Engine & Driveline. (Uni-joints, engine mounts, engine not mis-firing or ****ing oil everywhere).
Exhaust Emissions (I’ve only ever seen them look to see it aint pumping lots of smoke, but some might uses a meter on it ?????).
Road Test (cross ya fingers).
Service Brake Test.
Hand Brake Test.

Hope that helps
Best regards
DarrenR

[mark2]

Copper alloy lines have been around for as long as I can remember, they are quite legal.

But quite correct, you are not allowed to use copper pipe that isn't specifically made for use as brake lines.

QLD roadworthy;
Get your rego form from QLD Transport, fill it out.
Get the insurance, as in compulsory liability cover (this is the insurance you pay as part of your rego). Phone up Suncorp or whoever and ensure you get a receipt No. (When your finally get your LR to QLD Transport, you will only pay the balance).
Get your own insurance, third party property, fire & theft (whatever takes your fancy).

(If the vehicle is interstate rego’d, you don’t need the liability cover as the existing rego will cover this.)

Now you can LEGALLY drive the vehicle (and you are covered) to a mechanic that does RWC.

If the vehicle you purchased is not registered you will also need a Bill of Sale or some form of receipt from the previous owner (QLD Transport will ask for this).

I normally go over the basics before I take it to get a roadworthy (because if the mechanic doing the RWC picks anything you only have 14 days before 2nd inspection), did my Disco on Friday, it passed first time (much to the disgust of the mechanic).

The list is;
Identification (chassis, engine #).
Modifications (if any, a bulbar / towbar wont be looked at if it obviously isn’t some dodgy home made effort).
Seats & Restraints (they will pick rips in seats, obviously worn seat belts).
Lights & Electrical Components ( stop, tail, direction, reverse lights, heaters/demisters etc, (Lucas Electrics, GOD help you)).
Body & Chassis (rust, badly dented etc)
Steering & Suspension (tie-rod ends rubbers, no clunk clunk in components, excessive play, ball joint wear/leaks).
Wheels & Tyres.
Brake Components. (not leaking and don’t require pumping to stop)
Engine & Driveline. (Uni-joints, engine mounts, engine not mis-firing or ****ing oil everywhere).
Exhaust Emissions (I’ve only ever seen them look to see it aint pumping lots of smoke, but some might uses a meter on it ?????).
Road Test (cross ya fingers).
Service Brake Test.
Hand Brake Test.

Hope that helps
Best regards
DarrenR

Make sure they dont try to test the handbrake by applying it on the move, I recently had a hard time convincing an inspector that this would be a bad idea in a Land Rover due to it being a transmission brake.

Also if they understand you are getting it inspected to register it (as opposed to selling it) you stand a far better chance of getting it passed......

[DarrenR]

Just to add to the dealing with QLD Transport staff. QLD Transport staff have name tags, use them throughout your conversion "Hi Suzanne" etc etc.

If you start off polite and friendly, if there is a problem (say some stupid monkey got the VIN wrong, got the make and model wrong) QLD Transport staff will go out of their way to assist you and you will walk (drive) away with a registered vehicle.

Best regards
DarrenR

[mark2]

Copper alloy lines have been around for as long as I can remember, they are quite legal.

But quite correct, you are not allowed to use copper pipe that isn't specifically made for use as brake lines.

QLD roadworthy;
Get your rego form from QLD Transport, fill it out.
Get the insurance, as in compulsory liability cover (this is the insurance you pay as part of your rego). Phone up Suncorp or whoever and ensure you get a receipt No. (When your finally get your LR to QLD Transport, you will only pay the balance).
Get your own insurance, third party property, fire & theft (whatever takes your fancy).

(If the vehicle is interstate rego’d, you don’t need the liability cover as the existing rego will cover this.)

Now you can LEGALLY drive the vehicle (and you are covered) to a mechanic that does RWC.

If the vehicle you purchased is not registered you will also need a Bill of Sale or some form of receipt from the previous owner (QLD Transport will ask for this).

I normally go over the basics before I take it to get a roadworthy (because if the mechanic doing the RWC picks anything you only have 14 days before 2nd inspection), did my Disco on Friday, it passed first time (much to the disgust of the mechanic).

The list is;
Identification (chassis, engine #).
Modifications (if any, a bulbar / towbar wont be looked at if it obviously isn’t some dodgy home made effort).
Seats & Restraints (they will pick rips in seats, obviously worn seat belts).
Lights & Electrical Components ( stop, tail, direction, reverse lights, heaters/demisters etc, (Lucas Electrics, GOD help you)).
Body & Chassis (rust, badly dented etc)
Steering & Suspension (tie-rod ends rubbers, no clunk clunk in components, excessive play, ball joint wear/leaks).
Wheels & Tyres.
Brake Components. (not leaking and don’t require pumping to stop)
Engine & Driveline. (Uni-joints, engine mounts, engine not mis-firing or ****ing oil everywhere).
Exhaust Emissions (I’ve only ever seen them look to see it aint pumping lots of smoke, but some might uses a meter on it ?????).
Road Test (cross ya fingers).
Service Brake Test.
Hand Brake Test.

Hope that helps
Best regards
DarrenR

Make sure they dont try to test the handbrake by applying it on the move, I recently had a hard time convincing an inspector that this would be a bad idea in a Land Rover due to it being a transmission brake.

Also if they understand you are getting it inspected to register it (as opposed to selling it) you stand a far better chance of getting it passed......

[shaunp]

Many of the copper coloured lines you see in Oz are simply copper coated. not copper. As far as I know solid copper lines are still not permitted for two reasons, one because many have a seam that can split and that copper work hardens easily. I wouldn't use them. Any brake place can make you lines, in fact you can buy a double flare tool on e-bay. I'm going to buy one to do my mustang.

[DarrenR]

Many of the copper coloured lines you see in Oz are simply copper coated. not copper. As far as I know solid copper lines are still not permitted for two reasons, one because many have a seam that can split and that copper work hardens easily. I wouldn't use them. Any brake place can make you lines

Copper pipe that is specifically made for automotive brake line use are a copper-nickel alloy, are seamless, won't work harden, have a tensile strength and pressure resistance equal to that of steel lines. Steel brake lines once they start to corrode the tensile strength and pressure resistance drops dramatically.

Most brake places, Repco etc can supply copper alloy brake lines pre-made to specific lengths.

There are a number of automotive manufacturers that use copper-alloy lines in production vehicles, Rolls Royce, Volvo are two.

EDIT:
Also note in QLD, Queensland Transport,

[1] Normal commercial copper tubing has been prohibited from use in brake systems because it is considered prone to cracking due to work hardening. However, there is a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Recommended Practice called Tubing - Motor Vehicle Brake Tubing Hydraulic - SAE J1047 which is the accepted industry standard. Persons wishing to use copper tube for vehicle hydraulic brake lines, must first provide proof of compliance with SAE J1047or equivalent standard.

[2] Made up hoses are not acceptable. Where brake hoses are replaced with aftermarket products, relevant standards approval marking is required. Motorcycles manufactured on or after 1 July, 1975, the brake hoses must be marked as per ADR 7/00. (Made up hoses are not acceptable unless specifically approved.) Braided hoses are acceptable provided they are approved and correctly marked. Refer AIS Information Sheet 7 - Braided Brake Hoses.

Best regards
DarrenR

[shaunp]

TPS brake suplies at Smith st Capalaba in Brisbane can make DOT compliant rubber or braided hoses from a sample, or once off mods with different ends to suit brake up grades etc. They will also make hard lines as required. Cheapest place I've found for brake parts, in Brisbane.

[Tomkah]

Hi all,

thanks for the answers.

I have used copper brake lines (and I mean brake lines made from a copper alloy especially formulated for the use as brake lines) on every car I have restored so far (but that was in Germany) and never had any problems, not even with the (VERY strict compared to Qld RWC) German inspectors...so I am a little puzzled that it might be a problem here.

But then again it is probably a good idea to be safe than sorry so I will get
the specs and check with my RWC guy first and Qld Transport second.

They will go on the truck, either way, but I would like to put them on now when I have easy access to everything while the body etc is off.

Thanks,

Thomas