Is unemployment so low? [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

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William

9th March 2007, 04:34 PM

Hello everyone.

I'm curious as to what others think on this topic. The reason I'm asking is that I find myself looking for some work at present. Now, I have always worked since I was a kid. Spent years in the Printing game, worked interstate, overseas blah blah. Chucked it in about 5 years ago and have been doing reno's on houses then reselling. I'm between finishing one house, selling and moving into the next. A little light on the cash flow. So, me thinks, go to a few agencies and look for labouring type work as a fill in, as I'm still fit considering at the age of 48, the usual sex, drugs and rock n roll wear and tear.:angel: Well, 12 agencies later, a couple of hours filling in forms, watching safety videos and being told there's tons of work etc at each over the past week and I get one call. To unload a container. How much? $37 for about 4 hours work. Jeeeez!!! (I actually said worse).

Now, my questions are (Sorry it's a bit long winded but I really couldn't believe the amount of c**p I've gone through with these people), Where are all these jobs that we keep hearing about and where oh where did the old C.E.S. go :D

crump

9th March 2007, 04:38 PM

p38arover

9th March 2007, 04:54 PM

mate, go out into the country, there's more work then you can poke a stick at.We regularly advertise labouring jobs, machine operators etc..in Local Goverment,good security,$40k a year, 9 day fortnight blah blah and dont get an applicant.

So, if I take retirement next year, is there a chance I'd get some work if i was travelling around Oz?

I don't have any experience as a machine operator so I may need to get a ticket for that.

Ron

BigJon

9th March 2007, 05:13 PM

Come to the Alice. Plenty of work here. Doing just about anything and everything you can imagine (not much boat fixing though:p ).

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 05:20 PM

William:

The problem you face is your age - so many employers have HR staff which are babies and want to surround themselves with like minded babies....

I'm a similar age to you and am considered way too experienced - been thru all that bs, - so I started my own business about 7 years ago.

Babies get short shrift with me (not all) but I'd employ seniors before babies anytime...

Too answer you question, the unemployment situation is very serious, particularly in the non cap city areas - the govt is (as usual) fudging the figures. IE: If you work for just one hour per week you are not unemployed, (but you're not really employed, either)...

I know of a lot of people who are 50+ who'd like a full time job or even a 20-30 hour a week gig, but can't get one...

given they have a somewhat secure situation by virtue of spouse, they do not appear on the official figures for those seeking employment.

I hear of the transport industry screaming for truck drivers, but so many employers in that field want drivers with years of experience - go figure.

There is a seething underbelly of problems in Aussie - from what I see in my role and having ongoing contact with hundreds of small businesses, most are doing it tough - only maybe one in twenty are actually making decent money (and that would only be say $1200+ per week nett, as in, in their own personal skyrocket). In this region the plethora of car dealers are doing very poorly, despite brand amalgamation/sharing etc....

GQ

cartm58

9th March 2007, 05:26 PM

so you believe in the tooth fairy and Today Tonight always reports its stories in a fair and balanced manner.

Well l'm 49, with 2 University degrees, have worked professional jobs all my life, been looking around for something more challenging in my field of work been sending 2 - 5 applications for jobs in Qld, Vic, WA a week, without a smattering of interest from the job hunters.

Yes there is a job premium market but you got to be in the stream that flows, trades qualifications, endorsed licenses for large earth moving machinery and trucks otherwise its a flat dead pond.

With China manufacturing boom over the next 25 years the Australian manufacturing employment market is going to die a death of thousand cuts.

Major resource projects are more and more looking at having off shore prefrabrication done and floating the stuff to the project for assemble on site.

China in paying skilled workers less for month than we pay for week to produce goods and materials means we will never win on any open playing field that Free Competition market policy places on.

Free Trade No tarriff policies merely means we lose jobs and conditions to the lowest priced competitor in the world.

Glib catch phrases like the "knowledge country", "R&D not manufacturing is the future" are just crap in my opinion as it does't provide jobs or incomes to the average Australian.

We are doomed to dig big holes and sell the dirt overseas to buy back the shiney metal stuff at 5 times the price.

Suggest you get back to renovating houses, property prices and rental costs are going up and up

Disco300Tdi

9th March 2007, 05:40 PM

We moved up to our house in Korong Vale permanantly during the "Move to regional Victoria" campaign last September. There is hardly any work up here at all due to the drought. I was lucky enough to strike a position on the local shire on a casual basis due to my trade qualifications as a chippy.
The economic development manager for the shire even stated that so many people have made the move for a better lifestyle but unfortunately cannot find any employment.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/plea-for-action-to-help-the-poor/2007/02/25/1172338469211.html

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21287962-662,00.html

Only last week this report was released. Now we reside in the 2nd neediest community in Victoria.

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 05:55 PM

It's the same in this part of the world 84RR.

So many people moving into the northern rivers of NSW, but so few jobs.
The few jobs available are in the social worker category - or service, as casual.... very little in the professional area - and not much for even those who fix cars - nurses get jobs but, being new, get all the crap no one else wants.......

The employment situation is far from good......

GQ

waynep

9th March 2007, 06:03 PM

The employment stats have looked good for ever since they started counting people who worked ONE HOUR a week or more as "employed".

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 06:08 PM

I have the 6pm NBN TV news on right now and they've just done a story about the difficulties of regional employment - and a report about apprenticeships - or lack thereof......... not good.....

GQ

dobbo

9th March 2007, 06:14 PM

Just out of interest what is the average wage nowadays?

jase

9th March 2007, 06:18 PM

I'll give any boilermakers, fitters, welders or heavy mechanics a job
we just can't get any :(
job is in western suburbs melb (but I live near kilmore 80kms nth) & travel

trades like brikie, sparkies ect are in huge demand and are knocking back work or quoting double what it's worth casue they don't really want it but will "work it in" for big $$ (I was a sparkie and still know a few)
so it all depends on what you do and where you are located
I agree lots of country areas are poor off and we no can't compete on the "world" market (read - China, india, aisa in general) :(

our bussiness / we are being assulted but imported asian poduct at the moment and they under quote us by 20% every time :mad:

we are delivering a new tanker next week, the customer is proud aussie and wouldn't by the imported crap
He asked us to put something on the back of his truck
he is ACT based and will be driving around with this on his new B double :D

HOLMWOOD HIGHGATE PROUDLY 100% AUSTRALIAN OWNED
QUALITY TANKERS BUILT IN AUSTRALIA BY PROUD AUSTRALIANS
HELP CARRY AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE BUY AUSTRALIAN
REJECT CHEAP IMPORTED PRODUCTS

Jase:D

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 06:21 PM

mns488

9th March 2007, 06:35 PM

William:

The problem you face is your age - so many employers have HR staff which are babies and want to surround themselves with like minded babies....

Babies get short shrift with me (not all) but I'd employ seniors before babies anytime...

Too answer you question, the unemployment situation is very serious, particularly in the non cap city areas - the govt is (as usual) fudging the figures. IE: If you work for just one hour per week you are not unemployed, (but you're not really employed, either)...

I know of a lot of people who are 50+ who'd like a full time job or even a 20-30 hour a week gig, but can't get one...

GQ

Hi GQ,

I disagree with "babies" employing like minded people, although it might be a trade thing?

In my field (accounting), the industry is screaming for people and our company does look at the 50+ candidates. There are some great 50 + people but, there is also the 50+ person who struggles to take instructions from someone half their age which can be very problematic.

But i do agree with the govt fudging figures part:D

BigJon

9th March 2007, 06:36 PM

Just out of interest what is the average wage nowadays?

I think it is $53k or thereabouts.

dmdigital

9th March 2007, 06:39 PM

Just get into the resource sector. Crying out for labour - skilled and unskilled - in the NT.

I've seen jobs for Stop/Go traffic sign holders paying $1600 a week!

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 06:57 PM

mns: yes you do have a point there, there are some 50+ which should be in a nursing home, yet some others could out do their kids in 'being like umm you know totally out there':D

it depends on the person, but having worked with some HR's in some big ops here, they sometmes live a life in a glass case....

I had a biz with 200 pax at one stage and it kinda grew like a cancer, so when push came to shove, the yuppie lot got the flick, the seniors stayed

I don't mind people having a bit of free time, but when they bitch and moan about the quality of the company supplied barista, then there's a lack of real work issue.....

GQ

isuzurover

9th March 2007, 07:18 PM

I work in Engineering R&D, and we have a few positions which have been repeatedly advertised and we have been unable to find anyone suitably qualified.

away

9th March 2007, 08:25 PM

JDNSW

9th March 2007, 08:46 PM

I am one of those who was chucked out as too old in my fifties. I could probably get a job today - if I wanted to move to Perth (but I don't). There are a few interesting comments I can make on this thread.

1. The government fudges the figures - but they always have! While the real unemployment is higher than the quoted figures, it always has been, probably by about the same amount.

2. How easy it is to find a job depends as always on where you are and what you can do. In general labouring jobs have been decreasing for the last hundred years as machines have taken over, but the number of people prepared to do this sort of work has also been decreasing as educational levels have increased, so it is a matter of the balance between these trends.

3. Skills that are in high demand are those that take a significant time to learn and/or those that have artificial barriers to entry such as required certificates that are harder to get than are justified. Typically trades and skills such as nursing, (or for that matter anything in medicine), engineering, some earth sciences.

4. Manufacturing has decreased to 25% of the economy in the last twenty years - but it never was much more than 30%. And like everything else, it has become less labour intensive, so fewer jobs - a good example being GMH's latest announced cuts; not because of less cars, but better production methods.

5. One of the main reasons that there is a skills shortage is that businesses (and Government Departments!) have failed to train their future needs. It is hard to fault them for this - it is impossible to keep the ones you train; your competitors steal them by offering more pay etc, still costs them less than training them themselves, and the high interest (current rates are high by historic and international standards) policies pursued by governments of all colours since Whitlam makes long term investment (such as training) bad management.
Another reason is exemplified by nursing - there are plenty of them trained but the average time they stay in nursing is about eighteen months! You have to ask why? Obviously mainly pay and conditions - most of nurses work for governments so there is little choice of employer, and the others simply copy the "standard" terms and conditions, so there is little incentive for governments or anyone else to give good enough conditions to keep staff. I suspect it is more to do with conditions than pay, things like always short of staff, ridiculous red tape, management politics, that sort of thing.

John

isuzurover

9th March 2007, 08:51 PM

p38arover

9th March 2007, 09:02 PM

I am one of those who was chucked out as too old in my fifties.

I took the opportunity of a redundancy when I was 54. My job had been transferred to abother compnay. They offered me the job at a higher wage but I'd had enough. I applied for two jobs and got one. I finished with Telstra on the Friday, started this job on Monday and have been here just over 5 years.

So in 42 years of employment, I've been unemployed for 2 days in total and had two employers.

Ron

Quiggers

9th March 2007, 09:06 PM

Well said John.

Bigbjorn

9th March 2007, 09:49 PM

where oh where did the old C.E.S. go :D

The current government, the runt and the weasel, on achieving power in 1996, commenced their agenda of dismantling the public service and paying off debts to supporters by removing public service jobs and handing out golden contracts to their mates. Just about the first to go was the C.E.S starting in 1996. You now have "Job Service Providers" who have prospered mightily whilst doing little.

The unemployed are still the unskilled, the illiterate, the unattractive, the older worker, the partially disabled, the sole parents, the isolated ( both geographically and socially).

We need a mass manufacturing industry, and not just in the Golden Triangle of Sydney, Canberra, Adelaide, Melbourne to provide unskilled & semi-skilled jobs for these disadvantaged workers. They need a C.E.S. to find them jobs and push them into them. Many are disillusioned to the point of no longer seeking work because of the embarassment of constant rebuttal, the costs of job search, the insulting and/or arrogant attitudes of potential employers.

I accept there are people who are unemployable, unwilling, lazy, drunk, stoned, etc. who will not or can not be placed in jobs. The question is should we pay these people who are not legitimately unemployed a welfare payment, or do we leave them to starve on the streets, and accept the inevitable increase in crime if we do not support them. " Don't starve, steal".

HangOver

10th March 2007, 02:30 AM

Come to WA. If you can't find work here...you ain't looking. Unemployment rate is down to 3% and these are mostly the "unemployable". My daughter worked at an employment service until a few weeks ago and she reckons the only people left on her books are the dregs that don't want a job anyway.

Before getting my first job in Perth I applied to loads of agencies and applied for ever job I could, I wanted/needed to work. Without boring you I have qualifications, at least 10-15 years experience around the 35 years of age (at the time) it took me three months to get a job and I wasn’t being choosy. Labor shortage, I don’t think so. Unless you are a tradie.

JDNSW

10th March 2007, 07:35 AM

......

We need a mass manufacturing industry ...........

Sorry Brian, I have to disagree with you. For a start, mass manufacturing no longer provides large numbers of jobs for relatively unemployable people (if it ever really did). Subsidising or protecting large industries as a means of welfare is not only unfair to everyone else, but is simply another example of "handing out golden contracts to their mates", whether these be the factory owners or the union bosses. There is a place for manufacturing in this country, but not as a means of welfare.

Somewhat as an aside, the main problem of manufacturing (as well as other industries) in this country, is, in my opinion, not tariffs, but the fact that the Australian dollar is overvalued - and this is caused by an excessively high interest rate, which in turn is needed to contain inflation because governments will not do anything else to contain inflation. Same thing is the root cause of balance of payments problems.

John

p38arover

10th March 2007, 09:42 AM

Hmm, this sounds interesting for someone like me who hates the city: http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php't=45679&highlight=

Ron

Bigbjorn

10th March 2007, 09:59 AM

by an excessively high interest rate,
John

Speaking as an investor and self-funded retiree, I consider the current interest rates in this country to be miles too low. Investors funds are the fuel of the economy and Government should be concerned with keeping rates up to encourage investment. The long term bank deposit rate should never be below 10%. The govt. should not be concerned with keeping rates low to the detriment of investors and to the benefit of brokes, bums, and borrowers. I consider the current rates to be stealing the use of my money. After taxes and inflation the return at current rates is negligible.

JDNSW

10th March 2007, 01:34 PM

Speaking as an investor and self-funded retiree, I consider the current interest rates in this country to be miles too low. Investors funds are the fuel of the economy and Government should be concerned with keeping rates up to encourage investment. The long term bank deposit rate should never be below 10%. The govt. should not be concerned with keeping rates low to the detriment of investors and to the benefit of brokes, bums, and borrowers. I consider the current rates to be stealing the use of my money. After taxes and inflation the return at current rates is negligible.

I can sympathise with you - I am a self funded retiree myself. BUT the major problem with high interest rates is that it strongly discourages investment long term. It does this in several ways - it encourages people to put their money into non proprietary investments rather than directly into productive businesses and at the same time prevents businesses from borrowing to do productive things with the money. But most importantly, it makes any long term planning impossible. If you are investing money today which is not going to produce a return for, say ten years, such as developing a new product or market, exploring for minerals, doing research, training skilled workers, or anything like this, the new project needs to produce a return that allows for the interest paid on the money during that ten years. (or whatever period is the relevant one). The result of this calculation is that once interest rates reach 10% or more, the rate of return needed to justify spending the money (for a return that does not start for ten years) becomes so high as to be almost impossible. This results in successful businesses becoming locked into short term projects (the ones that try to do things long term either go under because they can't compete with the short term oriented competitors or get taken over by "leveraged buyouts" or similar, and dismembered).

Since reasonably complete records have been kept there are no examples of economies that have been successful for long with the long term deposit rate or equivalent more than about 5%. Historically in Australia it has rarely been much more than this except in the last 30-odd years, and current rates are higher than in most other comparable economies, in some cases much higher. There is, of course, no magic number, it is just that the higher the rate the shorter term everyone has to work. While we can get away with this for a while, it leads eventually to the sort of problems we see everywhere today - decaying infrastructure (high interest rates mean governments can do a lot less) and lack of investment in anything long term, such as training doctors and nurses, building new factories, and so on, and more and more effort being put into parasitic occupations whose profits depend on swapping money around.

John

away

10th March 2007, 07:24 PM

Before getting my first job in Perth I applied to loads of agencies and applied for ever job I could, I wanted/needed to work. Without boring you I have qualifications, at least 10-15 years experience around the 35 years of age (at the time) it took me three months to get a job and I wasn’t being choosy. Labor shortage, I don’t think so. Unless you are a tradie.

I guess it depends somewhat upon your expectations. When I made my last job change I got right out of my qualified area. Sure, I had a really steep learning curve, but the rewards were amazing (I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be earning $1000.00 per day, but that's what has happened.) And I didn't have to look for the job, it was offered to me.

You'll notice I said "come to WA", not "come to Perth". Whilst Perth is experiencing a mini "boom" riding on the back of the resources industry, it is the regions that are creating the majority of the jobs. Having said that, I know that Pibara Iron are flying many of their admin people from Perth to Karratha on Mondays and returning them on Fridays, just so that they can fill the positions.

I'm trying deperately to retire but I keep getting more work! July 1, July 1, July 1.....it's really going to happen on July 1.

LoadedDisco

10th March 2007, 09:40 PM

WA could be the way to go because the Gold Coast is close to being stuffed with water problems and soon the power problems will follow. We also have no real workable transport system. Roads are way behind and the local council have no idea about planning for future needs to do with anything on the coast. You will see and hear of a lot of businesses on the coast and I'm sure in a few other city's that will close in the next 12 months and move off shore. There needs to be a lot of changes in Aust if we are going to prosper.
I have been seriously checking out Tassie and WA for a permanent move.

markyc

11th March 2007, 04:25 PM

My girl's field is film & TV so there're always periods where she has no work and goes the office temp route.
Now I know January is a quiet time but, after over 50 applications and interviews with every relevant Melbourne agency, she didn't get a single call in that month:(
Is anyone out there a director who needs a good continuity/script supervisor?:angel:

markyc

11th March 2007, 04:29 PM

Er, my last post: it's not advertising, is it?:o
Apologies in advance if required:)

George130

11th March 2007, 06:16 PM

I'm just hanging out till mid march. Long service here I come! After that it will depend as still my area is suffering a death of 1000 paper cuts. Some of my work was sent of 6 months ago for sign off and still nothing! Realy makes you #$%$%&!

max at the flat

11th March 2007, 08:06 PM

Well just as a little insight,
I have been out of the workforce for just over a year looking after kids etc. I thought it would be easy to get back in and on a reasonable wage, how wrong was I??
Applied for 11 or so jobs and got interviews to 4 and was told "I was perfect for the job" in all of them, then come the wage negotiations. For one position I applied for, I was just asking for the average wage. The nice young lady told me that they were only prepared to offer $35k to 40k MAX:eek: I said thanks but no thanks and watched as the same job was advertised for another two months. she rang me the other day advising that the employer was now prepared to negotiate, I advised her that it was too late as I had already got a job and that I start this week.
It appears to me that the employers are really trying to put the screws in wage wise as apart the job that I took they all wanted to pay far less than the going rate and were prepared to play hardball. It was just lucky in my case that going back to work was not that pressing.