New Disco TD5 - should I be worried?

[owoodland]

So I picked up a 99 TD5 D2 auto last night. Paid $15k for it, 195,000 on the clock. Very nice condition and has the full dealer stamps. Doesn't mean of course that it can't have mechanical problems.....

Running home down the freeway last night I had the cruise on (what luxury) and was belting along at 100. Turned the cruise off to get off the freeway, but when I put my foot down nothing happened i.e. car just kept coasting along losing speed steadily. A couple of hundred metres later I turned off the off ramp and put my foot down again and the power was back!

I noticed at this stage that the temp gauge was at the higher end of the white range, which may explain loss of power (i.e. computer cuts the fuel if it detects overheating)? I wouldn't have thought it was to do with the cruising.

Checked the coolant level this morning and it seemed down (although I have just bought it so I have no idea if it has been going down steadily or what). Pulled the air release plug out of the top radiator hose and gave it a squeeze - hose was mostly empty.

So it may have got warm because the coolant was down (fine), I am just wondering how much of this is starting to sound like the 'early stage head gasket failure' in the 99 Disco. If so, can any experienced TD5ers tell me

1. If they have had similar issues
2. How much has to be done on replacement of the gasket (i.e. do you actually need to mill the head)
3. How much it's going to cost me!

I may be hitting the panic button too soon, it could be a good old-fashioned coolant leak from a hose or a sticky thermostat or just about anything it's just that I have come to expect the worst from my Landrovers (so why did I buy another, you ask, well I have no idea. Probably some masochistic streak that owners of reliable cars don't share).

Anyways, hopefully I can get these teething problems ironed out at not too extravagant a cost. Car drives well apart from all that but I get the willies every time I think about just how much in the way of electronics the car has.

[Reads90]

Personal i would top up the water. keep an eye on it and see if the power thing happens again. Could be a fault with the cruse control, and both just happened at the same time

[crump]

maybe check your ECU plug for oil.

[George130]

Don't panic yet. Top up the coolant with water. Don't forget the bleed screw in the top radiator hose! If you put coolant in make certain it is the right one and not the Glycole stuff. With toping it up also have the heater on full and run it till warm and check again.
ECU may also have just gone into limp mode beifly or similar.
Check the Oil in the ECU plug like the others said.
If it is the head then yes big $$$$$
Bolts, gaskets ect around $800
Machining shouldn't need doing but if it is then most places will tell you it can't be done. Don't accept that answere as a new head is $4500 or anywhere from $1200 to $2500 second hand.

[Studio54]

Radiator leak?? Has the radiator ever been changed. As they are alloy most of them would have a leak buy now. If you can see have a look for evidence along the bottom of the radiator of discoured water/coolant leaking.

Any water evidnece on the engine dip stick?

Perhaps just monitor it in case it was a freak glitch with the throttle, if pain persists see your doctor (mechanic)


JB

[owoodland]

No water on the dipstick or the inside of the oil filler cap.

A look inside the coolant reservoir this morning reveals what looks like traces of oil floating on the top of the coolant!!

Any recommendations for LR mechanics in Perth (preferably relatively close to the city)? I usually go to British Parts & Service centre but they hate TD5s with a passion. Rovatech maybe (Bentley)?

I haven't had the power loss except for that one moment. I am most worried about the coolant issue. I put in 2 litres this morning (water only just to get the system topped up), which overfilled the reservoir. I didn't run it to bleed out the top hose but I will try that again later.

Fingers crossed. I rang the previous owner and he very kindly agreed to pay for the repairs (whatever it took - I did drop the mention of the head gasket into the fray!).

[LandyAndy]

Hi
Contact Kie4(Richard) via PM he did mine,was working for Southerns now a holden dealer,does private jobs after hours.
If your lucky its the plastic dowels in the head,they deteriorate and allow the head to move.
If you get it early no machining should be needed.
Andrew.

[Blknight.aus]

I would suggest that you have the beginings of a leaking oil cooler. bit of a pain to sort but not insurmountable if you get it befor it dumps your oil into the coolant or vice versa.

A static pressure test of the system on a warmed up engine will reveal whats what.

[owoodland]

Don't panic yet. Top up the coolant with water. Don't forget the bleed screw in the top radiator hose! If you put coolant in make certain it is the right one and not the Glycole stuff. With toping it up also have the heater on full and run it till warm and check again.
ECU may also have just gone into limp mode beifly or similar.
Check the Oil in the ECU plug like the others said.
If it is the head then yes big $$$$$
Bolts, gaskets ect around $800
Machining shouldn't need doing but if it is then most places will tell you it can't be done. Don't accept that answere as a new head is $4500 or anywhere from $1200 to $2500 second hand.

Tried bleeding out the air from the top radiator hose but I had the engine running for about 6 or 8 minutes with air coming out the whole time and no end in sight. How long should this take? Depends on how much the system has drained down I suppose.

[Graeme]

Tried bleeding out the air from the top radiator hose but I had the engine running for about 6 or 8 minutes with air coming out the whole time and no end in sight. How long should this take? Depends on how much the system has drained down I suppose.

To bleed properly, the reservoir has to be unclipped and held high with the bleed screw removed. Wait until no more bubbles appear - they keep coming with some coolant for quite a while. Do not have the engine running.

The heater controls have nothing to do with the coolant flow - it permanently flows through the heater matrix.

Good luck.

[George130]

Graeme is correct about the heater.
With the reservoir I cut a coke bottle into a funnel. I found it would just seal so when bleeding you just keep adding to the funnel till you have a constant flow out of the bleed screw.

As for the oil cooler, Evil peice of engine! They don't sell the cooler seperate so if it has gone you should look on e-bay. UK wrecker is ofter selling them and it's a lot cheaper than buying the entire assembly. I had a custome one made when mine blew.

It would be worth getting the exhaust gas test done also to be safe.
Can't help with workshops up your way.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Owland
3 checks.
When the engine is hot after a freeway speed drive,pull over and feel the top radiator hose,if its is under extreme pressure,ie swelling up,its exhaust gas in the coolant.
Next check,start the vehicle,turn the climate control OFF.Go to the front of the vehicle,is the aircon booster fan running? If the booster is running all the time it indicates an overheat has occured,the computer needs to be reset via testbook/rovacom after the defect is fixed.
OIL IN THE HARNESS
Not the headgasket but can do strange things including making the computer belive the motor is overheating!!!!!!.
Remove the ECU(next to the battery) carefully unplug the red connector,if there is engine oil there it shouldnt be!!!! If you have this common issue we can advise further,check and let us know.I dont disconnect the battery to do this,just make sure the key is off!!!!
Andrew

[owoodland]

So I picked up a 99 TD5 D2 auto last night. Paid $15k for it, 195,000 on the clock. Very nice condition and has the full dealer stamps. Doesn't mean of course that it can't have mechanical problems.....

Running home down the freeway last night I had the cruise on (what luxury) and was belting along at 100. Turned the cruise off to get off the freeway, but when I put my foot down nothing happened i.e. car just kept coasting along losing speed steadily. A couple of hundred metres later I turned off the off ramp and put my foot down again and the power was back!

I noticed at this stage that the temp gauge was at the higher end of the white range, which may explain loss of power (i.e. computer cuts the fuel if it detects overheating)? I wouldn't have thought it was to do with the cruising.

Checked the coolant level this morning and it seemed down (although I have just bought it so I have no idea if it has been going down steadily or what). Pulled the air release plug out of the top radiator hose and gave it a squeeze - hose was mostly empty.

So it may have got warm because the coolant was down (fine), I am just wondering how much of this is starting to sound like the 'early stage head gasket failure' in the 99 Disco. If so, can any experienced TD5ers tell me

1. If they have had similar issues
2. How much has to be done on replacement of the gasket (i.e. do you actually need to mill the head)
3. How much it's going to cost me!

I may be hitting the panic button too soon, it could be a good old-fashioned coolant leak from a hose or a sticky thermostat or just about anything it's just that I have come to expect the worst from my Landrovers (so why did I buy another, you ask, well I have no idea. Probably some masochistic streak that owners of reliable cars don't share).

Anyways, hopefully I can get these teething problems ironed out at not too extravagant a cost. Car drives well apart from all that but I get the willies every time I think about just how much in the way of electronics the car has.

OK, So I still haven’t driven the car anywhere. I spoke to Kevin from Rover-tech this morning, had a very nice chat and was told in no uncertain terms NOT TO DRIVE THE CAR ANYWHERE! Apparently my descriptions are symptomatic of a failing oil cooler and a failing head gasket. Sounds as though it’s early stages and he should be able to get it without too much trouble, although the head will have to come off and a new oil cooler on the way.
I will have more info when he strips it down later this week. He mentioned that they are wanting to engineer up a new fitting to do away with the oil cooler altogether. Apparently (and I am taking his word for it here) they are more of an oil heater for cold climates than anything and not needed in Australia. That sounds a little weird to me but these guys are supposed to know TD5s back to front. I’ll talk it over with him later this week.

[stevo]

this is why it is a good idea to get them checked out before handing over the cash,it would be interesting on the oil cooler bypass but would be wanting to do a temp comparasion on the temp of the oil before/after as the oil is used to cool the pistons and would pick up alot of heat from this,
hopefully it is only the oil cooler as the head gasket is labour intensive as well costly in parts

[George130]

OK, So I still haven’t driven the car anywhere. I spoke to Kevin from Rover-tech this morning, had a very nice chat and was told in no uncertain terms NOT TO DRIVE THE CAR ANYWHERE! Apparently my descriptions are symptomatic of a failing oil cooler and a failing head gasket. Sounds as though it’s early stages and he should be able to get it without too much trouble, although the head will have to come off and a new oil cooler on the way.
I will have more info when he strips it down later this week. He mentioned that they are wanting to engineer up a new fitting to do away with the oil cooler altogether. Apparently (and I am taking his word for it here) they are more of an oil heater for cold climates than anything and not needed in Australia. That sounds a little weird to me but these guys are supposed to know TD5s back to front. I’ll talk it over with him later this week.

Yes I was told the same thing by the bloke who built my replacement. If was able to leave the vehicle off the road we were going to build an external cooler. The only issue is the space available after you reverse the Banjo fittings. If you get a chance have a look at it once it's out and you will see that the bolts can be reversed giving the thread on the outside ready to accept the mew connections. Our plan was to have a water cooled and air cooled fittings. It would increase the oil volume and add more pipes to the engine bay but I was also thinking it might increase the cooling ability of the entire system for travel to the hotter parts of the country.

[owoodland]

this is why it is a good idea to get them checked out before handing over the cash,it would be interesting on the oil cooler bypass but would be wanting to do a temp comparasion on the temp of the oil before/after as the oil is used to cool the pistons and would pick up alot of heat from this,
hopefully it is only the oil cooler as the head gasket is labour intensive as well costly in parts

Preliminary diagnosis: head gasket and oil cooler together. Just in the first stages of dying, "luckily" enough. Does not look as though I am going to get any change out of $5,000.

With regards to getting it checked out, yes in theory however I was soured after I had my D1 "checked out" and the guy missed a number of major items including the fact that the turbocharger wasn't working at all (busted wastegate actuator and a blown hose).

I figure that I would have bought one with similar Ks in any case, so would have ended up with this problem relatively quickly whatever one I bought. So much the better if the previous owner kicks in some dough.

Anyway, full quote to follow later this week.

[stevo]

with the head off it will make it easier to get the oil cooler off the oil cooler is around $900 I did mine last year the plastic dowels had failed make sure they replace with the steel dowels all up it was around $1000 in parts and the whole weekend to do the job,are you going to get the oil pump bolt done aswell??

[jase]

now I'm getting worried :(
the wifes Td5 started using coolant last year just doing checks one day and the bottle was half down :( it had never moved before so
I went searching anound for a leak and found oil cooler leaking (coolant)
it's only a very small weep, so I just top up every cople of weeks (in that time she would do 1500kms and it doesn't even get low enough to bring on the low coolant light)
now I'm worried the cooler will fail :(
do they ever just let go???
I was going to wait for it to get worse (at the same time I'm thinking about selling it and getting her a newer car)
jase

anyone want to buy a Td5 D2 7 seat with leather, ACE ect ect

[George130]

THey do just let go. Mine went very suddenly but the damage was there from the previous problems. Litraly just went and pumped oil into the cooling system. Had to get towed home. Took ages to get the gunk out.

[Phil633]

Yep, they do just let go,

My coolant had been dropping very slowly over a long time, and I could not find a leak anywhere. Then one day it just dropped all the coolant in one go.

Cost me $2200. The oil cooler had corroded on the nipple at the back where a short water hose is fitted. I still have it, I reckon with a bit of modification I could use it again.

[owoodland]

now I'm getting worried :(
the wifes Td5 started using coolant last year just doing checks one day and the bottle was half down :( it had never moved before so
I went searching anound for a leak and found oil cooler leaking (coolant)
it's only a very small weep, so I just top up every cople of weeks (in that time she would do 1500kms and it doesn't even get low enough to bring on the low coolant light)
now I'm worried the cooler will fail :(
do they ever just let go???
I was going to wait for it to get worse (at the same time I'm thinking about selling it and getting her a newer car)
jase

anyone want to buy a Td5 D2 7 seat with leather, ACE ect ect

Well, to quote Kevin from Rovertech, "don't drive it ANYWHERE!". I am new to the TD5 game but I understand that the oil cooler will indeed just let go and shove all of the oil into the cooling system (and vice versa probably). I am told that cleaning out the coolant galleries of the TD5 after this happens is "absolutely the worst job on the TD5 ever".

Also, you will lose your cooling capacity and if you don't notice the temperature spike you could very well cook the motor.

Not to worry you or anything.

Apparently by 170,000 km give or take you should expect to re-do the head and the oil cooler on the TD5 prior to 2003.

(195,000 km on mine and it just happened).

[owoodland]

OK, so the full list of repairs? Long.

The gist of it is:
1. head off, valves out, pressure tested, milled, prepped. Head gasket was leaking into #4 cylinder
2. oil cooler shagged, thus replaced
3. Fuel regulator leaking
4. Put head back on with new head gasket - leaking
5. Head back off - apparently a hairline crack that was opening up when the head was tensioned down to the block (a new one to Rovatech). Head cut back around crack, welded, milled again.
6. Head back on - sweet.

Plus a bunch of other stuff including the injector harness and the alternator brushes and bearings.

Total cost? $5,500-odd.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. Holy hell, that's some expensive repairs. I am currently trying to sell my 300 tdi for this kind of money, and that's a whole car!!

Still, I have my fingers crossed.... Stay tuned

[ak]

OK, so the full list of repairs? Long.

The gist of it is:
1. head off, valves out, pressure tested, milled, prepped. Head gasket was leaking into #4 cylinder
2. oil cooler shagged, thus replaced
3. Fuel regulator leaking
4. Put head back on with new head gasket - leaking
5. Head back off - apparently a hairline crack that was opening up when the head was tensioned down to the block (a new one to Rovatech). Head cut back around crack, welded, milled again.
6. Head back on - sweet.

Plus a bunch of other stuff including the injector harness and the alternator brushes and bearings.

Total cost? $5,500-odd.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. Holy hell, that's some expensive repairs. I am currently trying to sell my 300 tdi for this kind of money, and that's a whole car!!

Still, I have my fingers crossed.... Stay tuned

FRIGHTENING:angry:

[4bee]

And the previous owner is still happy about paying for all this work?

I read about all this Td5 stuff & am glad I still run the 3.9 V8i with it's, simple by comparison "features" that can still be worked on.

Same must apply to 300 Tdi owners. Why are you selling yours?

[Utemad]

As much as a $5500 repair on a car you only just picked up is enough to make you hunt down and kill the previous owner in the most painful way possible (although you should have got it checked out first), is $21000 all up for a 1999 Td5 an okay price?
Especially since now you know you shouldn't be having any problems with it (to do with the repaired stuff) for a long time. I mean if you paid $21000 for a good one and to have it crack the head 12 months later you would still be up for the big costs.

I'm quite happy to keep paying the fuel bill for my V8 though.

[Discobunny]

Sheeeesh:eek2:
I was wingeing like buggery at the $1500 I just spent on a complete top end rebuild (reco heads, rockers, new cam, timing chain and lifters), and ignition overhaul (new pick up, amplifier and coil) for the V8, but it does this now:burnrubber:
I like the 10L/100km of the diesels but the repair cost would kill me.
Hopefully the previous owners will honour his comments about paying for the repairs.

[Defender=1st]

coolant = radiator water ??? (isnt it ???)
Sorry for the stupid question but is it ???

[jase]

coolant = radiator water ??? (isnt it ???)
Sorry for the stupid question but is it ???

yep

[Defender=1st]

so i should jst check if its using more than usual radiator water ??

[owoodland]

And the previous owner is still happy about paying for all this work?

I read about all this Td5 stuff & am glad I still run the 3.9 V8i with it's, simple by comparison "features" that can still be worked on.

Same must apply to 300 Tdi owners. Why are you selling yours?

Yeah, well hopefully!

Why am I selling my 300 tdi? To be honest now, I have no idea. The TD5 rides better and does not have the (very) annoying driveline slack of the tdi but it cost a lot more, is far more complicated and has worse fuel economy. If I had the decision again, I would stick by the tdi or buy a much nicer example thereof. However, what's done is done so fingers crossed there.

[owoodland]

As much as a $5500 repair on a car you only just picked up is enough to make you hunt down and kill the previous owner in the most painful way possible (although you should have got it checked out first), is $21000 all up for a 1999 Td5 an okay price?
Especially since now you know you shouldn't be having any problems with it (to do with the repaired stuff) for a long time. I mean if you paid $21000 for a good one and to have it crack the head 12 months later you would still be up for the big costs.

I'm quite happy to keep paying the fuel bill for my V8 though.

Well, it's not good but it's not awful, especially since I know that I am set for a few years (hopefully) head-wise. I have had a lot of 160,000 km problems fixed at the same time as well, hence the bill.

The previous owner said he would throw in some money, and he actually returned my call the other day so that looks promising too.

I would have had the car 'checked out' first but
a) the last time I did that and paid $200 for the priviledge the guy missed heaps of stuff that was fairly important
b) I am fairly mechanically minded, but as it turns out completely TD5 naive
c) The symptoms were reasonably subtle except for the initiated (see point b) and I missed the warning signs. There is every possibility that a "mechanic" of similar standard to the one I previously had would have missed it.

Anyway, live and learn, and I just have to get over the bill.

[byron]

coolant = radiator water ??? (isnt it ???)
Sorry for the stupid question but is it ???

NO!!!! Coolant is NOT WATER..... it is a 50 : 50 mix of RED Type coolant and DEMINERALSED or DISTILLED water!!!

[byron]

Yeah, well hopefully!

Why am I selling my 300 tdi? To be honest now, I have no idea. The TD5 rides better and does not have the (very) annoying driveline slack of the tdi but it cost a lot more, is far more complicated and has worse fuel economy. If I had the decision again, I would stick by the tdi or buy a much nicer example thereof. However, what's done is done so fingers crossed there.

The "better ride" nor the "annoying driveline slack" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Td5 motor!!!!!! - are you kidding? or what?????

The "extra complication" and "worse fuel economy" IS to do with the Td5 engine!!!!!!

[byron]

Well, it's not good but it's not awful, especially since I know that I am set for a few years (hopefully) head-wise. I have had a lot of 160,000 km problems fixed at the same time as well, hence the bill.

The previous owner said he would throw in some money, and he actually returned my call the other day so that looks promising too.

I would have had the car 'checked out' first but
a) the last time I did that and paid $200 for the priviledge the guy missed heaps of stuff that was fairly important
b) I am fairly mechanically minded, but as it turns out completely TD5 naive
c) The symptoms were reasonably subtle except for the initiated (see point b) and I missed the warning signs. There is every possibility that a "mechanic" of similar standard to the one I previously had would have missed it.

Anyway, live and learn, and I just have to get over the bill.

Perhaps if a few more people sued the inspection service that "overlooked " faults and recovered the costs of repairs needed as a result of this "oversight" a.k.a. PROFESSIONAL NEGLIGENCE then there would be fewer cowboys/jokers/jerks/rip-off artists engaged in this practice.......and NO we DON'T need more government regulations to "protect" the consumer a.k.a gullible fool when there are plenty of provisions for the seeking of remedies and relief from this already extant in common and tort and contract and equity law!!!!!

[Defender=1st]

NO!!!! Coolant is NOT WATER..... it is a 50 : 50 mix of RED Type coolant and DEMINERALSED or DISTILLED water!!!

What is Red Type Coolant??

[owoodland]

The "better ride" nor the "annoying driveline slack" has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Td5 motor!!!!!! - are you kidding? or what?????

The "extra complication" and "worse fuel economy" IS to do with the Td5 engine!!!!!!

Whoah! Steady, fella.

I was using 'TD5' as shorthand for 'Series 2 Discovery fitted with TD5 engine' and '300 tdi' as shorthand for 'Series 1 Discovery fitted with 300 tdi engine'.