TD5 Power Loss Fixed. Guess What It Was

[ak]

Hi Guys well following on from my thread last week, into Coopers yesterday and the problem was the "fuel pump".

They first put it on a air flow meter, dyno-ed it, checked fault codes and nothing showed up wrong put it down to a fuel pump, new fuel pump in tested and good as gold. I was on my way back to the Coast by lunch time.:)

Ward said he has seen them either go alltogether or like mine fine on light throttle and not be able to pump fuel under high pressure.

On the bright side at least I was not on a trip and have to get the thing trucked.

So anyone with a TD5 pushing 6 years and 130K plus keep this in the back of your mind.

[JDNSW]

.......
So anyone with a TD5 pushing 6 years and 130K plus keep this in the back of your mind.

My 110 is twenty one years old and pushing 330,000 - and still has the original fuel pump. Tell me more about the improvements in the last twenty years?

For that matter the 2a fuel pump is nearly fifteen years old - but it doesn't do a lot of miles.

John

[ak]

My 110 is twenty one years old and pushing 330,000 - and still has the original fuel pump. Tell me more about the improvements in the last twenty years?

For that matter the 2a fuel pump is nearly fifteen years old - but it doesn't do a lot of miles.

John]

Yes, I was thinking the same it's a bit worrying really.

Ward said they had put about 5 fuel pumps into cars since the new year. Although Coopers would look after just as many cars as the dealers they are always busy.

[cwebb]

AK, what was the cost of a new TD5 Fuel Pump?
Cheers

[hiline]

AK, what was the cost of a new TD5 Fuel Pump?
Cheers


list price through four wheel drives in Vic

fuel pump and sender $770 :eek: :eek:

[noddy]

My 110 is twenty one years old and pushing 330,000 - and still has the original fuel pump. Tell me more about the improvements in the last twenty years?

For that matter the 2a fuel pump is nearly fifteen years old - but it doesn't do a lot of miles.

John

Arghhh....come on John, don't be like that.

Fuel economy and power are two improvements that come to mind, but I know where you are coming from!!!:D

[Frenchie]

list price through four wheel drives in Vic

fuel pump and sender $770 :eek: :eek:

Try buying one through a dealer -$1600! :eek:

[justinc]

130,000km! You did well.

We often replace completely failed ones at around 100 to 110 k, and anyone attemptimng a mainland trip from here with about those k's gets a new one before they leave.

JC

[Graeme]

130,000km! You did well.

We often replace completely failed ones at around 100 to 110 k, and anyone attemptimng a mainland trip from here with about those k's gets a new one before they leave.

JC

Kms or time running - how old are they when they fail?

[Ben_R]

167 000kms! still working fine on the first one!

cc130 TD5 '00

[George130]

Nooo Don't tell me. I don't want to know!

[justinc]

167 000kms! still working fine on the first one!

cc130 TD5 '00

That is a rareity, Although I have a few with high k's still on the original pump, these would be the exception, and if any of them wanted to attempt say a central oz trip like the Tanami road or the simpson etc, I would be recommending a pump before they go. The cost of preventative replacement as opposed to the recovery/ repair costs in a remote location, not to mention the ruination if your trip/ holiday, is far less. I would do it to mine if I had one, and this is the way I think about these things. I have one person in particular that refuses to replace his noisy Defender pump, and soon it will be in here on a flat tray. (I will refrain from the 'I told you so's', as I told him to expect it soon.)

JC

[Blknight.aus]

Since im into get you home butchery, any chance I can get the old pump and sender off of you so I can see what buggery can be wought upon it to make it go again?

[justinc]

Hi Dave, I have done this, and there is primarily a failure of the pump motor brushes and holders, which eventually melt/ wear out. This is accelerated with poor fuel and /or a blocked pickup screen, and there is no way to prevent it. It will happen sooner than later. The pump is not easily replaced with any aftermarket equivalent, at least I haven't found one yet. With the cost of a replacement so high I would be looking for an alternative still, but I fear a dead end ATM.

I could send you the next dead one I get if you like.

JC

[DEFENDERZOOK]

do you guys know if the vehicles that have had the pumps replaced due to failure......
have ever run their tanks dry.......?

[p38arover]

On my trip to Darwin and Kakadu last August, I met a bloke with a Defender Td5 who's pump was playing up in Kakadu. He was most peeved especially as the Def. had a long range tank and it was a bitch to replace the pump.

Ron

[FenianEel]

Well I've had two replaced in the last 6 months:( by TechnoBritish.
$690 pump price - $1000 total bill.

From what I can work out, British 4WD who have a banner ad here have the cheapest price I could find - about $565 i think - others ave. price was $800 or so, although I believe the LR dealer price has come down under the four figure mark.

The most recent time was due to running dry though.

2002 Disco, just under 95,000kms

[p38arover]

It seems the Td5 is another one to avoid.

Ron

[ak]

do you guys know if the vehicles that have had the pumps replaced due to failure......
have ever run their tanks dry.......?

No never ever ran my tank dry.

Don't know about others though.

[Cameron_Def]

I am at 165,000 and no issues on the pump and just did the Sydney to perth to Karratha and back in 2 weeks!

This forum is a witch hunt sometimes ... I am sure there is plenty, lots, heaps of td5s with the same kms with no pump, bolt, oil pump issues.

Only thing I see as a constant is the Oil in the ECU cable.

[spudboy]

How come you have to replace the whole pump?

Isn't there just a broken bit that can be swapped, or is it one of these moulded assemblies.

[FenianEel]

I am at 165,000 and no issues on the pump and just did the Sydney to perth to Karratha and back in 2 weeks!

This forum is a witch hunt sometimes ... I am sure there is plenty, lots, heaps of td5s with the same kms with no pump, bolt, oil pump issues.

Only thing I see as a constant is the Oil in the ECU cable.


It seems the Td5 is another one to avoid.

Ron

I still think it's a great engine. Don't believe everything you hear. I haven't had any really any major issues....yet:eek:

[FenianEel]

How come you have to replace the whole pump?

Isn't there just a broken bit that can be swapped, or is it one of these moulded assemblies.

Apparently there's sh*tty little bits inside it that go, and like most things - they arent made to be repairable, or it's not worth doing.

[justinc]

I am at 165,000 and no issues on the pump and just did the Sydney to perth to Karratha and back in 2 weeks!

This forum is a witch hunt sometimes ... I am sure there is plenty, lots, heaps of td5s with the same kms with no pump, bolt, oil pump issues.

Only thing I see as a constant is the Oil in the ECU cable.


Witch hunt???:o :o :o

I agree that there are HEAPS of them with no issues, As I said, If attempting a remote area trip, EG holiday of a lifetime etc etc, the last thing you need is this happening, I will continue to warn clients about the possibility. ( BTW, as these are genuine only, we don't make a lot of $$$ from these jobs, so it's not like I WANT to replace all of them, especially in defenders, where they are a %#$#$%^ to fit.)

JC

[Cameron_Def]

Witch hunt???:o :o :o

I agree that there are HEAPS of them with no issues, As I said, If attempting a remote area trip, EG holiday of a lifetime etc etc, the last thing you need is this happening, I will continue to warn clients about the possibility. ( BTW, as these are genuine only, we don't make a lot of $$$ from these jobs, so it's not like I WANT to replace all of them, especially in defenders, where they are a %#$#$%^ to fit.)

JC

Sorry witch hunt may be the wrong words ...

But these forums are very, VERY negative .. imagine if you were someone looking to buy a Defender, came in here and read us bitch and moan about things all the time ..

Its all good and so to Inform people of issues, but we should have a single thread where we point people to about it, and then move on.

I am glad I found this forum, glad I found it after I brought my 110 ... else I would have ran away to a toyo real quick.

Apart from that, the ECU is a common fault, the rest are **** happens... everyone checked there oil pump bolt and I think only 1 found a fault... and not even a fault a possible fault.. I doubt many people on here knows what loctite looks like dried up, let alone covered with oil.

maybe mine is just a monday 110, but its going strong, and today as a reward I replaced even more zink nuts and bolts with stainless..

[Frenchie]

so it's not like I WANT to replace all of them, especially in defenders, where they are a %#$#$%^ to fit.)

JC

Mine is easy now after I took an angle grinder to the rear floor! :cool:

[abaddonxi]

I don't think anyone reading these forums, except the die-hard opponents of Land Rovers, take this kind of thread as anything other than it is - A warning about a possible fault. Every car has specific things that go wrong, bar none. Even the venerable Subaru L wagon, RIP, went through the odd CV joint.

You have to assume, reading a technical forum that you will only hear the bad stories, not the good.

What these threads do provide is an approximate idea of when it's going to happen and how much it is likely to cost to repair. In most cases they are also going to provide a high level of technical assistance if you want to make the repairs yourself.

That is all of pretty high value.

I'm looking at buying another Subaru for my wife, and would love to find a forum that would say, 'this, this and this are going to be a problem,' I just spend too much time on here to investigate joining another forum.

Cheers
Simon

[BigJon]

I'm looking at buying another Subaru for my wife, and would love to find a forum that would say, 'this, this and this are going to be a problem,'

Cheers
Simon

Don't bother looking. It is very rarely indeed that something goes wrong with them. :D

[DarrenR]

My 110 is twenty one years old and pushing 330,000 - and still has the original fuel pump. Tell me more about the improvements in the last twenty years?

John

you do raise a valid point John....

for me, 20 years later I still own a 10 year old Land Rover that I have to adjust the tappets on, go figure.

Best regards
DarrenR

[DarrenR]

Don't bother looking. It is very rarely indeed that something goes wrong with them. :D

Your spot on there, Subaru and Diahatsu F10 are 2 4WDrives you could hammer all day long, "nar nar unbreakable" in the true sense of the word.

CV's on the Subaru only used to go because more often than not the boots would get ripped or punctured from rocks/sticks allowing the ingress of dirt/grud.

Best regards
DarrenR

[BigJon]

My first car was a Brumby. It got hammered as only a first car can. Bought with about 30 000km on board, sold with well over 200 000km. Never had to tow it or trailer it in all that time.

[incisor]

it obviously never rained where you were would be my first comment...

the suby i had wouldnt drive past a puddle of pee on the side of the road....

didnt matter what was done to it, most frustrating vehicle i think i ever owned...

was never so glad to see the back of a vehicle in all my life...

[BigJon]

I had water halfway up the bonnet to the windscreen more times than I care to remember. Never even missfired. 88 model with electronic ignition.

[DarrenR]

I had water halfway up the bonnet to the windscreen more times than I care to remember. Never even missfired. 88 model with electronic ignition.

Word for word, my own comment.

Best regards
DarrenR

EDIT: But I also did the same thing many times in my SWB Series 3 plus at night with the head lights shinning under water

[KiwiSteve]

why would one pay the stealers to rectify electric fuel pump on a disco karcraft sell them after market i'm sure job takes about 45mins the longest part is lifting the carpet up and relaying it.

[abaddonxi]

it obviously never rained where you were would be my first comment...

the suby i had wouldnt drive past a puddle of pee on the side of the road....

didnt matter what was done to it, most frustrating vehicle i think i ever owned...

was never so glad to see the back of a vehicle in all my life...


Don't bother looking. It is very rarely indeed that something goes wrong with them. :D

Had one of both. L wagon wouldn't die, only thing was CVs and fuel pump need a whack with a hammer once a year. Only thing that killed it was people kept running into it. Or it drove them so mad with it's reliability that they attacked it - happened twice.:eek:

Second Subaru, more trouble than worth. Air bag suspension, Radiator, head, lucky it got stolen before we fixed the head. Decided not to buy that one back from the insurance company.

Looking at a Forester in ACT, anyone know what goes wrong with them? Aside from CVs.

Cheers
Simon

[gogg0]

My TD5 is a 99 model and had done 147,000 when the fuel pump tossed it in. It was a $600 repair.

[tombraider]

2001 Defender.

Pump noisy since LR tank fitted @ 5000kms...

Still strong (& noisy) at 130k. Never ran dry.

[p38arover]

Only thing I see as a constant is the Oil in the ECU cable.

And that's expensive enough.

Ron

[JDNSW]

And that's expensive enough.

Ron

This seems to me to be the crux of the problem - not so much that bits that are not traditionally consumable items (fuel pump, wiring harness) are treated as such, but that they are so expensive, making owners very reluctant to replace them before they fail. The biggest problem with the TD5 is not reliability, or even the possibility of failure in remote areas with no possibility of local repair, but the cost of maintenance needed to minimise this.

John

[ak]

Sorry witch hunt may be the wrong words ...

But these forums are very, VERY negative .. imagine if you were someone looking to buy a Defender, came in here and read us bitch and moan about things all the time ..

Its all good and so to Inform people of issues, but we should have a single thread where we point people to about it, and then move on.

I am glad I found this forum, glad I found it after I brought my 110 ... else I would have ran away to a toyo real quick.

Apart from that, the ECU is a common fault, the rest are **** happens... everyone checked there oil pump bolt and I think only 1 found a fault... and not even a fault a possible fault.. I doubt many people on here knows what loctite looks like dried up, let alone covered with oil.

maybe mine is just a monday 110, but its going strong, and today as a reward I replaced even more zink nuts and bolts with stainless..

"Bitch & moan",

As the one that started this thread I can't see how I or anyone else bitched or moaned, rather reported on factual information to help others that my find themselves in the same out of pocket situation. Isn't that's what the tech section is all about. Helping each other.

We are lucky to have the likes of Justin Cooper come here and give imput as to these issues.

[stevo]

174 000 km so far,pump is getting noisey never ran dry will replace when it hits 180 or get a spare and keep it till the other one packs it in

[cartm58]

had a client who ran a trucking business in Tasmania he had fleet of DAK trucks various combinations and configurations he ran the whole fleet on a laptop prgram he designed himself and he ran a preventative maintenance program for the fleet.

he replaced serviced things before they reached critical breakdowns based on his working knowledge of what went wrong on the trucks.

there was one schedule for summer and another winter, especially the trucks doing mine site cartage.

he knew how the drivers were treating the trucks based on the service requirements, one driver he had eye sight tested as he had more left hand tyre scuff damage then right side trye scuff damage turned out the guy was nearly blind in left eye and had been all his life.

his view was it was cheaper to replace the parts on trucks before a breakdown occurred which would mean truck lost for day on side of road, another truck lost to do the broken truck run and the cost of sending a mechanic out to the break down and tow back to the workshops.

[Blknight.aus]

Hi Dave, I have done this, and there is primarily a failure of the pump motor brushes and holders, which eventually melt/ wear out. This is accelerated with poor fuel and /or a blocked pickup screen, and there is no way to prevent it. It will happen sooner than later. The pump is not easily replaced with any aftermarket equivalent, at least I haven't found one yet. With the cost of a replacement so high I would be looking for an alternative still, but I fear a dead end ATM.

I could send you the next dead one I get if you like.

JC

yeah, please mate, I have some ADF stuff to play with and my have source from ADI parts (contract to a civvie company so IF I get it to do what I want I'll post the company and part details) that by specs at least does what I want it to.

[justinc]

had a client who ran a trucking business in Tasmania he had fleet of DAK trucks various combinations and configurations he ran the whole fleet on a laptop prgram he designed himself and he ran a preventative maintenance program for the fleet.

he replaced serviced things before they reached critical breakdowns based on his working knowledge of what went wrong on the trucks.

there was one schedule for summer and another winter, especially the trucks doing mine site cartage.

he knew how the drivers were treating the trucks based on the service requirements, one driver he had eye sight tested as he had more left hand tyre scuff damage then right side trye scuff damage turned out the guy was nearly blind in left eye and had been all his life.

his view was it was cheaper to replace the parts on trucks before a breakdown occurred which would mean truck lost for day on side of road, another truck lost to do the broken truck run and the cost of sending a mechanic out to the break down and tow back to the workshops.


This is what I was talking about. IF i had the time to do this with my client base, ( I might still do it...) it would be fantastic. The one big thing I have learnt as a repairer is that people trust you to keep their vehicle going and reliable. Information like this database is the only way to do it properly, and I'm convinced that even if you rang up joe bloggs one friday afternoon to tell him it was time to replace his Td5 discoverys' intank pump as it has reached a stage in its life where the probability of it failing without warning is high enough for me to be making this phone call, He would say ...

' of course, as you know the inconvenience of towing it to your workshop midweek when I have 3 children to drop off at school and the inlaws coming from overseas to tour the state in my car next week would be horrendous, can I have it fitted on MOnday morning at 9?'

To which I would answer 'of course, I will make the arrangements. '

This is a far better scenario than a phone call from the only structure outside the Paynes Find hotel ( A solitary phone booth) to inform me about the failure of the fuel pump.....

Thanks for your kind words AK.

JC