HF/UHF and Satphone advice

[jik22]

Coming from the UK, where a cellphone works in most places, I thought I'd better get prepared for that not being the case here. :(

Firstly, I'm after a "buyers guide" to UHF sets, as it's been many years since I used CB in the UK, and even then it was 27M FM stuff, not UHF. Looking around, units seem to be $200-$400, with the higher end units being either smaller, remotable, or having programmable scanners in. Is that about it, or are their huge performance differences across the price range too? Is the point of the programmable receive frequencies just so you can listen to registered UHF frequencies from other companies/outfits, or am I missing a more important use? Only features I can see me needing is the ability to scan for active channels and use repeaters, which nearly everything seems to do...and they all seem to be 5w for the in-car ones, so I'm guessing that's a legal limit?

The next bit is trickier - HF vs Satphone? I think I'd be better suited with a satphone (Assuming coverage is total country wide) as there is no training for either myself (Not too much of a problem) or passengers. However, although the purchase cost has come down a lot, they seem to still be expensive to run, requiring a contract, which for occasional (Once a month, if that) use isn't great. Does anyone do pre-pay on them, or are there other ways to lesten the ownership cost that I'm not aware if? Or is this, plus the "free calls" still the reason HF is going strong?

Oh, and finally, what's the best (low cost of poss) emergency beacon for personal use in a 4x4?

Any advice or pointers greatly appreciated...

[mns488]

I have neither but friends i go away with have, 1 has a sat phone and another an HF.

Personally from my (limited) experience with them i would go the sat phone. The HF seemed to have more troubles (than the sat) with obstructions like trees etc. We needed to use the HF for a recovery in the outback (gearbox) and spent a good few hours trying to work out why no one could hear us... bad earth.

With the Sat phone a big plus (in my book) is that you can take it with you if you go for a hike in the bush or something. Or lend it to a friend:D . My mate shares his around as long as the bill is covered for that period.

The sat phone owner is on a low bill: std $30 per month with i think $5 worth of free calls (used in a micro second).

The other thing is he got a government grant for the satphone at which i think a lot of people are eligible for (but they don't realise). Something about remoteness. I can find out more if you want?

hope that helped

[cartm58]

well must ask where you going to live in oz

as 90% of the population centres live within mobile telephone coverage

EPRIB (emergency beacon) changing frequency after 2007 different satillete so you going to have watch which one you buy, old system used to cost $300 -$400 new one much dearer.

If your only after a sat phone or HF for emergency situations then buy a EPRIB and keep in car.

If your after car to car or car to base communication HF radio fine

If your after person to person from the outback then sat phone the go.

If your only planning on getting them for outback trip once every year then it would be cheaper to think about leasing or renting the sat phone for the trip from dealer as cheaper than buying one and taking out contract

[jik22]

well must ask where you going to live in oz


Living in the Perth suburbs, but planning to explore remote bits of WA by 4x4 over the next year or so, and then maybe further afield too.

Wanted car to car for 4wd clubs, so that's the UHF bit as I understand it. Then wanted emergency comms, though maybe not as drastic as all or nothing with just an SOS beacon! :o

[cartm58]

well a eprib beacon is all you need and these can be bought or rented as well from any reputable cb communications shop around perth.

unless your constantly going bush for prolonged periods not worth outlaying huge amounts of cash for one

what 4x4 club you joined or been out with since you been in Perth

Besides LORCWA as land rover specific

there are good clubs like West Coast 4x4 and GO Bush which have internet based membership ie no monthly club meeting to go, just front up for the posted outing and pay your annual fee membership around $60. The clubs also have spare equipment for use by members like radios. winches etc you can borrow for trips

[Tusker]

UHF - 5w is the legal limit I think. Handhelds are either 1/2 or 1w. But UHF is for convoy use use, don't rely on for emergency use. There are repeater channels listed on the 'net, but I repeat don't rely on for emergency use.

27 mhz is also still around, due to a cockup in government regulations permitting both instead of switching. Don't rely on in emergency situations. Its possible you'l get hold of a SSB set, great range, but there won't be anyone listening. GME for example don't make SSB sets anymore.

HF - still usable, practical, & cost effective. Have a a squiz at www.VKS737.on.net (http://www.VKS737.on.net). believe me, it's nice to be able to raise the alarm with someone 2000 km away. And get weather forecasts. And it's possible help is nearby - you'll never know with satphone. Listenening to the evening skeds can be a revelation.

Everything can be broken, but typically HF transceivers are bullet proof. Unlike some satphones I could name!

Satphones - the only way to go really if you want someone to call you. Radphone on HF is just too hard. Emergencies? It depends on what phone numbers you have with you. Literally. Friends & family aren't always up Rangers no's, police no's etc etc in the middele of nowhere.

EPIRB - the true emergency button. Penalties for misuse. Again, do some homework, new frequencies are coming in, old ones won't be effective. Can't recall when, it's all to do with standardisation following the Sydney-Hobart yacht race deaths a few years ago.

So what to get.. I've gone with 2ndhand satphone & HF instead of new one-or-the-other. Search on www.explore.oz.com (http://www.explore.oz.com) for some good stuff.

Regards
Max P

[dmdigital]

I have a SatPhone for the reason's you've outline - easy to use as it works like a mobile phone and therefore most people can use it. I have had to use it in an emergency and was very grateful for it. HF is good to but needs installation, mounting of antenna and some knowledge to use, that said the new modern systems like the Coden NGT work like a phone (almost).

I also carry an EPRIB, if you are buying an EPIRB you should get the new higher frequency one and register it. The old system is to be phased out by February 2009 and the new ones are now available.

UHF Is good for vehicle to vehicle but is less of a safety "tool" as it's range is limited.

You should also get a good first aid kit for the vehicle and know how the basics of first aid.

I'd recommend a SatPhone and EPIRB, but if you are in Perth you should be able to hire these for short term rather than buy them.

[jik22]

what 4x4 club you joined or been out with since you been in Perth


Haven't yet, and was going to ask for recommendations once the car is a little more prepped than it is right now.

Just had the timing belt done, serviced it, and now adding a few goodies like the comms gear, and then I'll be ready!

Only been here 3 months so far, and have been concentrating on sorting out my other hobby first, which now needs the 4x4 to get me to places for that too. :)

[Nathan]

I have a Telstra Satphone, works great anywhere in the world as long as you're outside.

Don't sign up for a Telstra Satphone account, minimum cost is $30 per month. If you're not going to use it much just go to a telstra shop and ask for a standard (NOT nextG) GSM SIM card with global roaming enabled. These plans start at just $10 per month.

Telstra don't really acknowledge this works from my experience, but then again most of the telstra staff I spoke to - including those in the Sat division - didn't seem to really know what a Satphone was!

Nathan

[srowlandson]

I got a second hand Satphone, Globalstar, and if i had my time again I would go the iridium option through telstra on the normal GSM + Global Roaming.

My Satphone (Ericsson R290) struggles in the high country but worked well for a mate all through WA / Kimberleys. He found it worth its weight in gold especially when he had a few drama's.

I loan it out to mates and they pay that month(s) bill whilst they have it which I am pleased it gets use and can help em out.

Steve

[JDNSW]

Just a comment on the EPIRBs. The original type (developed to locate downed pilots during the Vietnam war) broadcasts a signal on 121.5 and 243MHz, these being the civil and military emergency frequencies respectively. All aircraft with two VHF sets (includes all airliners) normally have one tuned to this all the time (and use it for gossip), which together with high cruising altitude of pressurised airliners ensured coverage almost everywhere. When a signal is detected, the alarm is raised, and a search pattern is flown at decreasing altitudes to locate the position. Different modulation is used (or supposed to be) for Land, sea and air beacons, and some also have VHF transceivers built in.
Around twenty years ago several satellites were launched which detect these signals, and relay them to national search and rescue centres. They also allow the position to be determined using the doppler shift of the signals, but the accuracy is limited by the frequency stability of the beacon. With their proliferation in recent years, false alarms have become a major problem, and to alleviate this and to improve accuracy (and hence reduce costs of searches), a new set of satellites was launched around ten years ago. These use a higher frequency beacon with a more stable frequency, and each beacon transmits an identification code, and this is registered when it is sold (so that it is immediately clear who is missing - or responsible for the false alarm). They are also more expensive.
The old satellites will be decomissioned as mentioned, but beacons would still be detected by aircraft. Whether such signals would be acted on after satellite decomissioning is a moot point, but I'm guessing that if in a remote area they would be.

John

[DirtyDawg]

I run a 35w output UHF and carry an EPIRB when going remote areas..oh and a lot of fresh water:D:D

[Nairbo]

I have a Telstra Satphone, works great anywhere in the world as long as you're outside.

Don't sign up for a Telstra Satphone account, minimum cost is $30 per month. If you're not going to use it much just go to a telstra shop and ask for a standard (NOT nextG) GSM SIM card with global roaming enabled. These plans start at just $10 per month.

Telstra don't really acknowledge this works from my experience, but then again most of the telstra staff I spoke to - including those in the Sat division - didn't seem to really know what a Satphone was!

Nathan

That GSM SIM card info is gold I have been paying $30 per month for almost 2 years , my contract will finish in 4 weeks and then I will be talking to Telstra , I was close to getting rid of the sat phone due to the cost of it just sitting here doing nothing for months at a time,thanks Nathan

[Bush65]

I have a Telstra Satphone, works great anywhere in the world as long as you're outside.

Don't sign up for a Telstra Satphone account, minimum cost is $30 per month. If you're not going to use it much just go to a telstra shop and ask for a standard (NOT nextG) GSM SIM card with global roaming enabled. These plans start at just $10 per month.

Telstra don't really acknowledge this works from my experience, but then again most of the telstra staff I spoke to - including those in the Sat division - didn't seem to really know what a Satphone was!

Nathan
I have HF but hired an Iridium sat phone for a recent trip.

For interest I tried the sim card from my telstra nextG turbo modem that I use with my laptop. Global roaming was enabled on the nextG modem and it worked fine in the Iridium phone for making a call - I did not try recieving calls.

Now I will start looking around for an Iridium sat phone.

[Hymie]

I have HF but hired an Iridium sat phone for a recent trip.

For interest I tried the sim card from my telstra nextG turbo modem that I use with my laptop. Global roaming was enabled on the nextG modem and it worked fine in the Iridium phone for making a call - I did not try recieving calls.

Now I will start looking around for an Iridium sat phone.

I bought 2 Irridium phones with 60 seconds of talk time on each of them from Graysonline Auctions.
They had a big stack of 20 or so and they went for $420 each.
Apparantly the NAB bought a heap for the impending Y2K global meltdown in 1999 and they are trickling into the market place now.
Occasionally a few pop up on Eb@y.

[waynep]

As has been mentioned already, the new EPIRB system will be much more accurate in giving your position than the old one. The old system could only report your position by satellite to within 20km or so then they had to zero in using ground parties or aircraft. This meant it could could take some time to get assistance. The new system also sends an identifier code that tells them exactly who has activated it.
The new EPIRB is basic cheap insurance if you go remote infrequently.

If you're going to be in really remote areas a lot the simplest way to go is a handheld SatPhone. They can be hired. Some 4WD clubs also have them but normally only allow them to go out on official Club trips.

HF is good if you are a social person because you can chat to other travellers on the VKS737 network totally free of charge. It will take more effort and space to install and you need a little more technical nouse to use it.

[Nairbo]

Don't sign up for a Telstra Satphone account, minimum cost is $30 per month. If you're not going to use it much just go to a telstra shop and ask for a standard (NOT nextG) GSM SIM card with global roaming enabled. These plans start at just $10 per month.

Nathan

I tried this and it just comes upon the phone screen "INVALID ACCOUNT" ?

[Blknight.aus]

My permanant car install is a single UHF/AM combined unit which has good range on am and has been of good use the AM band is still used but mainly by ham radio buffs so you can get in touch.

Uhf is good for not much better than LOS.

The satphone Id hire if I needed it but I have a few friends that have portable HF sets that are radphone compatable...

IMHO a good UHF/AM SSB takes care of your convoy coms and beyond that the satphone is the ducks danglies.


Mind you last time I was on HF sersiously I had a good conversation with some bloke in russia doing exactly what I was doing... Radio picket on an exercise.. through broken english over a 2 hour period I learnt that all AJ's gripe about the same stuff...

[jik22]

IMHO a good UHF/AM SSB takes care of your convoy coms and beyond that the satphone is the ducks danglies.


Since posting this originally, I put a UHF in the car for the trips out, but haven't made a decision on Satphone vs. HF yet, as we haven't managed to find the time for a long trip into the middle of nowhere.

I'm going to do my amateur license, so if I can find a set that will also do the RFDS and 737 frequencies, I'll buy one, if not, it'll be Satphone (Probably hired) when we do venture further afield. Plus a cheap EPIRB!

[Blknight.aus]

some satphones Actually have an epirb function buried inside them... scroll through some menus and apparently its there...

Im not sure how much I trust that info as It was given to me by a yota driving fishing buff but If I was designing a sat phone sure as shooting Id put that feature in along with a feature that would allow it to be turned on by someone else over the satelight system.. Missed your scheduled call in time by 24 hours? lots of alarms ring then the eprib turns on.

[Bush65]

I have heard of many difficulties with no signal, or dropping out, from users of the Globalstar system.

Iridium users have far fewer, if any problems.

Something to keep in mind if anyone is contemplating a sat phone.

[jik22]

some satphones Actually have an epirb function buried inside them... scroll through some menus and apparently its there...


Yeah, I agree it would be a great (and cheap to do) addition, but I think I'd still invest in a standalone EPIRB for the few hundred they cost if I was going places where I needed a satphone.

[Bushwanderer]

I run a 35w output UHF and carry an EPIRB when going remote areas..oh and a lot of fresh water:D:D

Hi DirtyDawg,
Did you mean HF? UHF sets are limited by law to 5W (& being an MP, I know that you wouldn't break the law).:)

[Bush65]

Hi DirtyDawg,
Did you mean HF? UHF sets are limited by law to 5W...
No there not. For the cb use they are, but not for commercial use.;)

HF radios for land mobile use are usually 100W PEP.

[Blknight.aus]

Yeah, I agree it would be a great (and cheap to do) addition, but I think I'd still invest in a standalone EPIRB for the few hundred they cost if I was going places where I needed a satphone.

ummm, why...

If you had the satphone with the EPIRB in it youve got an EPIRB already...

thats of course assuming that the info Ive been given is accurate, but if you have a GPS and a satphone/hf/ can talk to anyone you can simply send of a loc and Im in trouble message and your done.

[Nairbo]

I tried this and it just comes upon the phone screen "INVALID ACCOUNT" ?

When I rang up to cancell this account , Telstra asked why ? I explained what I expected the card to do , and they told me that global roaming had not been enabled ! When I first purchaced the card I went back into the shop twice to check that it was enabled cos it wouldnt work in my phone .After sorting this out all is good now and my sat phone is connected for $10 per month.
THANKYOU nw393y

[Davo]

I'm living in a remote area and I'm just in the middle of setting up an HF and UHF in my car. For HF, I joined the VKS-737 network for the five "4wd" frequencies you can use, and then also got an "outpost non-assigned" licence from the ACMA, (a govt. dept.) for using RFDS frequencies. You only really need the VKS membership but I got the other licence because it was cheap and only needed several hours :( trying to figure out the website and what to do.

HF is a great option because there's usually someone listening, and the VKS skeds cover road conditions, weather, and let you check in with your location while you're travelling, too.

I'm getting the UHF set up because everyone up here seems to have those white fibreglass antennas on their car and I just thought that if they're that popular then that sort of coverage on the highway would be a good idea. The range is limited but if the popularity is great then it's worth having.

We have Globalstar satphones at work and they have been utterly frustrating to use. It can take several tries -at least - to get through and then a call will usually just cut out for no reason. This is what made up my mind to go with HF for my own use.

I'd say that HF is more "hands-on" and is great if you're willing to do your homework and get some practise, and to leave the radio on a lot of the time and be a part of the network, even if it's only listening to the traffic.

Satphones are more "hands-off" and a just-pick-it-up-and-use-it option, without having to learn how to use it or get a licence or anything.

To me it's a bit like the Land-Rover owners who want to fix things and make things on their cars, as opposed to, say, the Toyota owners who just want to jump in and drive the thing!

I might add that as a typical Land-Rover owner I couldn't afford new gear so I got the radios off ebay from reputable types, and new antennas to suit. I'd rather have brand-new radios but at least this way I still got something worthwhile, which was a good compromise. It just took lots of research!

[LRHybrid100]

just dragging this one back up.

So let me get this right, if I already have a phone with Global Roaming active then I just need the Sat Phone Hardwear?

THX

LRH

[Nairbo]

I have a Telstra Satphone, works great anywhere in the world as long as you're outside.

Don't sign up for a Telstra Satphone account, minimum cost is $30 per month. If you're not going to use it much just go to a telstra shop and ask for a standard (NOT nextG) GSM SIM card with global roaming enabled. These plans start at just $10 per month.

Telstra don't really acknowledge this works from my experience, but then again most of the telstra staff I spoke to - including those in the Sat division - didn't seem to really know what a Satphone was!

Nathan

Yes it is still working in mine , just dont tell Telstra what you are doing ;)

Brian

[LRHybrid100]

for those with Iridium handsets then I have found some interesting Casual contracts:

http://www.trtelecom.com.au/pdfs/Call%20Plan%20$30%20Suspension.pdf

The other benefit is that you can suspend that plan for 12 months in 12 months if you like - there is no minimum, and when in 'suspend' mode, you are only paying $15 per month (rather than $30). It works out to be around $1.00 per day for active mode, and around $0.50 per day if you are suspended.