Defender rollover

[Utemad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiPdGhalTg

Supposed to be in Noosa. Not too sure on the reason given though :D

"...computer failure caused loss of compression and the brake booster to lose vacuum."

[Bushie]

Only one reason for that.

Didn't know how to do a stall recovery.

All the way back, with foot on the clutch would be my guess.


Martyn

[DiscoTDI]

I love how people blame the vehicle for their inability to drive, either that or the computer selects gears in a defender:eek:

[DiscoTDI]

Played it again with the sound up and the motor was still running while it was going backwards:o

[Utemad]

Tombraider has stuck it to them already :D:D:D

[dmdigital]

Only one reason for that.

Didn't know how to do a stall recovery.

All the way back, with foot on the clutch would be my guess.


Martyn


Played it again with the sound up and the motor was still running while it was going backwards:o

Like they said!

[Jeff]

I don't like the look of the roof, I have seen a few 110s and Defenders roll and the A pillar seems weak. I rolled my first 2A at high speed and it didn't do much damage at all. The cut away for the upper part of the windscreen like all things Land Rover seems an afterthought and they never got around to strengthening it.

Jeff

[Reads90]

What a load of crap. More like clutched it and ran it back down the hill and lost control. Nmber one way to roll on a hill descent.

Stalled Hill recoverys. you brake, put the hand brake on . Keep the foot brake and hand brake on (don't ever trust land rover hand brakes)
Then place in Reverse. Gentley take of the brake to make sure car is in reverse. Should go back a bit to take u the cogs , and gently let of the hand brake. Car should now be sat on the hill with you not touching the foot brake and the handbrake off. Next thing to do is to start the car ingear As this point you have your feet off everything (even the clutch pedal). This will start it in reverse and take you back down the hill under control
See Easy:)
And BTW that is the Land Rover Experiance way to do it

[Richard]

think it was his or daddys defender? cos they all sounded really young

[Reads90]

think it was his or daddys defender? cos they all sounded really young

my money is on it was a hire truck. Hence the lame exchuse for why it rolled

[Jeff]

Young people have money too these days, some even have good taste in cars. The banks love lending it, how many WRXs are driven by old farts, they are not cheap(about the same as a Defender last time I looked) so they must borrow it. Or they are drug dealers.
When I was a kid my dad was a copper and if he saw someone with long hair driving a Porsche or Roller he would write down the rego cause "They must have stolen it."

Jeff

[tombraider]

Tombraider has stuck it to them already :D:D:D

Interestingly my comment seems to have disappeared! :cool:

[p38arover]

What did you write?

I can't access youtube from work.

Ron

[Reads90]

It is still on there

Tomb raider wrote

Bull****!

Computer failure was not involved.
Lack of driving training is the reason for the rollover.
He clutched in and it took off backwards.
No two ways about it, it was driver error, not the vehicle.

Glad they got out OK... Lesson learnt!

Theres a stall recovery procedure for that situation.

Engine is still running in the video as it rolls backwards, lack of experience would be the key to the situation.

[Utemad]

Interestingly my comment seems to have disappeared! :cool:

I looked and one minute it was gone and the next it was back with reinforcements :)

[Stepho_62]

Beautifully put TR :D

I suspect your spot on. I'm not sure I got skilled at off road until I was about 22 or 23 so as you pointed out they should Chalk that one up to experience! :cool:

[Defender=1st]

I cant stand it when Peoplel cant admit when they are in the wrong and they try to blame a computer failure that really is B*llsh*it. Good comment TR

[dmdigital]

I looked and one minute it was gone and the next it was back with reinforcements :)

Ditto, couldn't see the comment

[Discobunny]

As he goes down hill past the camera, the front wheels are locked up, so the brakes are working.
He is standing on everything in sheer panic, clutch included:o
Good to see they got out OK, no one wants to see anyone get hurt.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

It is still on there

Tomb raider wrote

Bull****!

Computer failure was not involved.
Lack of driving training is the reason for the rollover.
He clutched in and it took off backwards.
No two ways about it, it was driver error, not the vehicle.

Glad they got out OK... Lesson learnt!

Theres a stall recovery procedure for that situation.

Engine is still running in the video as it rolls backwards, lack of experience would be the key to the situation.

Of course... you are 100% right here. I reckon the hill was steeper than it looked on the video too.

Computer failure causing lack of brake boost??? WTF? The fender has a vacuum pump driven by the engine. Hydraulic brakes (even assuming a vacuum failure they would still work). A mechanical handbrake etc etc.:confused: :confused:

[RR5L]

Interestingly my comment seems to have disappeared! :cool:

I just did a search on youtube because the link didnt work, your coments are still there and justly so!

[incisor]

nearly as smart as this fellow...

http://www.addictingclips.com/Clip.aspx?key=DBB5B983BF616460

[Signal1]

I feel sorry for the poor Xtreme! :dbcry:

Such a car in the hands of such amateurs! :mad:

[Bytemrk]

nearly as smart as this fellow...

http://www.addictingclips.com/Clip.aspx?key=DBB5B983BF616460


:eek::eek::eek: ouch

[CraigE]

Accidents happen.
But what a tosser.

[scrambler]

I've had a brake booster fail and loss of braking power didn't happen - you just need to push harder. After all, it's an assist on pedal pressure, not affecting the actual brake lines. But as thousands have already said, a poor workman blames his tools. I have to say the roof held up better than I expected. "Brit piece of crap" my a**e. I guess "computer failure" is unprovable so a better excuse than "I didn't know what I was doing."

[Reads90]

Ok not having had a TD5 yet. But surely the ECU dose not effect the brakes anyway. In other words there is not direct computor part attc to the brakes . Apart from ABS if it had it. And that will only stop the ABS working and not the brakes

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Ok not having had a TD5 yet. But surely the ECU dose not effect the brakes anyway. In other words there is not direct computor part attc to the brakes . Apart from ABS if it had it. And that will only stop the ABS working and not the brakes
Like I said the vacuum pump is crank driven. If the engine is running you've got vacuum. Even if it isn't you've got enough assistance for a couple of stops.

Don't try and analyse it... it just doesn't make sense. :):D

[Jeff]

Not making excuses for poor technique, but does ABS work in reverse?

Jeff

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Not making excuses for poor technique, but does ABS work in reverse?

Jeff

yes :)

Tip is.. it doesn't know :eek: :eek:

[Bushie]

Strange thing is - if you can't make forward headway, one technique is to stand on the brakes and stall out, then go through the stall recovery routine. Funnily enough even if you deliberately stall the engine your brakes will still hold on just about any hill (where there's sufficient tyre traction).

Bunch of *******


Martyn

[Michael2]

I clicked on the link to the person who posted it. Info was : 20 year old; in Australia; named Debbie. Not to say that Debbie was driving, but all the other videos posted were high speed out of control things too.

It's sad to see the Defender damaged.

[Graeme]

yes :)

Tip is.. it doesn't know :eek: :eek:

The D2 SLABS ecu knows when reverse is selected.

[Bushie]

The D2 SLABS ecu knows when reverse is selected.

Critical thing though - Reverse has to be selected :)



Martyn

[ak]

As he goes down hill past the camera, the front wheels are locked up, so the brakes are working.
He is standing on everything in sheer panic, clutch included:o
Good to see they got out OK, no one wants to see anyone get hurt.

Ok correct me if I am wrong the front brakes are locked, but why does the back wheels look to be rolling and not locked? Could someone explain this to me.

As said above glad no one got hurt.

[scrambler]

Ok correct me if I am wrong the front brakes are locked, but why does the back wheels look to be rolling and not locked? Could someone explain this to me.

As said above glad no one got hurt.
The real experts can give the definite answer - this is just my guess (and I thought the same as you when I saw it) - weight is over the rear wheels, so better traction therefore still turning. Less weight over the front, so less friction and wheels lock. Additional fault revealed - CDL not engaged.

[ak]

The real experts can give the definite answer - this is just my guess (and I thought the same as you when I saw it) - weight is over the rear wheels, so better traction therefore still turning. Less weight over the front, so less friction and wheels lock. Additional fault revealed - CDL not engaged.

Fair enough. I also thought CDL must not be engaged. Wonder if this was the case and if that was a Xtreme with Traction Control. ( Like a D2 on a steep hill with no CDL dangerous ). If not maybe there really was something wrong with the brakes.

However I am only guessing too.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Firstly, the hill is steeper than it looks on the video I reckon - therefore he should not have been using the brakes. Right? :)

[scrambler]

Firstly, the hill is steeper than it looks on the video I reckon - therefore he should not have been using the brakes. Right? :)
We can only hope the driver reads this thread, or the less polite comments on YouTube. So far he would have learned to engage the CDL, to stall out in gear if traction is lost, and how to do a stall recovery in reverse.

Add to that, it would have to be suspect whether he knows about low range or tyre pressures. How much of a driving education could he get here for free :)

[camel_landy]

Failed hill climb is one of the first things taught on courses...

I'd have to agree that the roll was caused by in-experience.

M

[DiscoTDI]

I think you guys need to look at this a little more closley. The front wheels did not lock up and as far as I can tell the brake lights did not come on, you will see dust kick up from the ground but if you watch the mag it is still turning. I think you will find that the drivers undies were filled before the roll over, I would say from the moment the vehicle started rolling backwards.:(

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think you guys need to look at this a little more closley. The front wheels did not lock up and as far as I can tell the brake lights did not come on, you will see dust kick up from the ground but if you watch the mag it is still turning. I think you will find that the drivers undies were filled before the roll over, I would say from the moment the vehicle started rolling backwards.:(

I think the point is, that even if the brakes did fail, he shouldn't have been using them anyway :eek:

[DiscoTDI]

All I was saying is that the driver has done nothing at all to save him/herself;)

[CraigE]

Id beg to differ, it appears the front wheels did lock initially and anyway as these have abs the wheels will rotate, if you look closely the front wheels are rotating a lot slower in conparisson to the speed of the vehicle. Even that aside the driver is a tosser and blaming brake vaccum and ec is the biggest load of crap out. The only way any of this could have happened at that speed is inexperience. Either clutch was depressed with no brake initially or car was put into neutral with no brake initially.If either brake or hill stall the thing should have pretty much stopped where it was. My money would be on Fender was starting to labour and clutch was depressed with no brake. Once car started descent braking was not going to stop it, where it rolled is probablly where the clutch was let out. Either way an expensive lesson, but the excuse is garbage and his person will probablly be one of those morons that will blame the 4wd for everything.

I think you guys need to look at this a little more closley. The front wheels did not lock up and as far as I can tell the brake lights did not come on, you will see dust kick up from the ground but if you watch the mag it is still turning. I think you will find that the drivers undies were filled before the roll over, I would say from the moment the vehicle started rolling backwards.:(

[Defender=1st]

I agree

[dmdigital]

Yesterday I had to reverse the Defender back down an incline (about 25 degrees or so) for about 2 car lengths. The area I was traversing was blocked by a big wash out and I had to avoid a large tree, it wasn't a straight backwards job but I had a good line and wasn't traversing the slope, the ground was very rocky and loose. Anyway into Low-R and walk it back.

Funny thing was afterwards when I had got back out of the bush and onto a track I remembered this thread. I'd just done what I knew to do, didn't skid, slid or slip at all. I just kept thinking that those guys in the video really didn't have a clue what they were doing. Fortunately they have survived and someone can now show them what to do.

[Ken]

If he dares get back in the Fender :D I to had similar experience Yesterday goin up steep hill "standard tyres not as grippy as i would like" could go no further So Low in reverse and back she goes with no trouble mine was a straight back down no trees or washouts to traverse

[spudboy]

I always think about installing a roll-cage when I see videos/pictures of Defenders which have rolled.

Quite a lot of roof damage given the slow roll speed.

[dmdigital]

I always think about installing a roll-cage when I see videos/pictures of Defenders which have rolled.

Quite a lot of roof damage given the slow roll speed.

First thing is to put a Milford cargo barrier in. At least then there are no possible insurance hassles, and it will aid in the event of a rollover.

Haven't heard what the D3 is lke on its roof.

I hope Toyota has improved the new Troopy - though it doesn't look like it - or for Land Rover and the 07 Defender for that mater! It's a problem with most 4WD's until recently I think the manufacturers ignored the issue.

[Quiggers]

Bad case of driver error there, must've forgot the middle pedal

GQ

[Reads90]

Well there are loads and loads of post now and he has replied to all of them. Getting a bit Sh**y too.
BTW put on a uk Landy forum and they have posted too:)

[JohnE]

Just had a look at the moron, in the defender, it is a bit grainy but, its pretty obvious waht he did, could get up first go, into reverse, gave it a bit, got too fast, foot on brake going backwards, paniced , turned the wheel and rolled over, If this is how they drive in the dirt I could only imagine how they drive on the road.
Also saw one on a short wheel base that roled on its side it is a reversed image, looked like a left hand drive but had Qld plates on it.

BTW Reads, the pommmie version of the reverse key start , is obviously no foot on the brake, I was taught by a legend in the aussie 4wd scene( yes he is still there and still writes) you have to have your foot on the brake to control the thing just in case it jumps. as you feel it firing you release the pedal slighly,

john

[JohnE]

Strange thing is - if you can't make forward headway, one technique is to stand on the brakes and stall out, then go through the stall recovery routine. Funnily enough even if you deliberately stall the engine your brakes will still hold on just about any hill (where there's sufficient tyre traction).

Bunch of *******


Martyn


oops Reads
missed bushies comment, what he says is what I missed saying



john

[JohnE]

Just read the idiots comments,
sure of themselves aren;t they, 15 times to get up a slope, commonsense would tell you to go around and try another way,
no point in blaming the vehicle for crass stupidity, hell if the blokes running to the roll are an indication of the average age of those blokes even the comment maker, well enough said, the batmobile is older than them, and they claim to be experienced!


john

[Reads90]

BTW Reads, the pommmie version of the reverse key start , is obviously no foot on the brake, I was taught by a legend in the aussie 4wd scene( yes he is still there and still writes) you have to have your foot on the brake to control the thing just in case it jumps. as you feel it firing you release the pedal slighly,

john


This was the way Land Rover say it should be done. But you are right too. But you have to remeber we were training the thick people who call them selves the general public. and they can't tell the differance between take of the brake pedal untilll the car starts and leave the brake pedal once the car is going backwards. So to say leave the brake pedal alone was always seen as the best way to save confusion :)

[Grizzly_Adams]

*sigh* There's no point arguing with him, we've had the same sort of discussion when someone on here posted a story of how his mates automatic discovery ranaway from him on a downhill run and he immediately got out and blamed the automatic.

In the end nobody was proved right, everyone went away feeling miffed at each other as well as everyone still feeling they were in the right!

Yes it appears obvious he is your typical LR hater yobbo and would gleefully give any excuse to show how "crap" they are, but all that means is that he has his own opinion on them and we - though we can make assumptions - really will never know wtf happened. Maybe there was a mechanical breakdown that we didn't see / don't know about, maybe it was driver error, maybe the gradient was a LOT steaper than we can see (which is easy to do in vids), maybe maybe maybe.

We can only hope someone leans from the experience...

[ak]

Well there are loads and loads of post now and he has replied to all of them. Getting a bit Sh**y too.
BTW put on a uk Landy forum and they have posted too:)

Yep just had another read, his real sh!tty now.:) :D

[scrambler]

I'm struck by the idea that 15 times later, his mate is still going hell-for-leather. If at first you don't succeed, make the same mistake another 15 times... until something breaks. If you can't get up the hill 15 times, I'd say that chance of getting up the 16th is no better.

The poster claims this car has been all around Australia, without troubles - clearly not completely a POS then.

His response is to claim that he knows more than everyone else.

I'd say "Narcissistic Personality Disorder." That's my professional opinion ;)

I'm also going to say ... STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS! He's never going to learn! Reads, you could show him how it's done, go up and down the same hill 16 times correctly, and he still wouldn't learn.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm struck by the idea that 15 times later, his mate is still going hell-for-leather. If at first you don't succeed, make the same mistake another 15 times... until something breaks. If you can't get up the hill 15 times, I'd say that chance of getting up the 16th is no better.

The poster claims this car has been all around Australia, without troubles - clearly not completely a POS then.

His response is to claim that he knows more than everyone else.

I'd say "Narcissistic Personality Disorder." That's my professional opinion ;)

I'm also going to say ... STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS! He's never going to learn! Reads, you could show him how it's done, go up and down the same hill 16 times correctly, and he still wouldn't learn.
Hey, just an idea. I wonder if they had made 15 attempts at the hill whether the traction control had overheated the brakes?

It's still no excuse because they shouldn't have been using them....

[ak]

Hey, just an idea. I wonder if they had made 15 attempts at the hill whether the traction control had overheated the brakes?

It's still no excuse because they shouldn't have been using them....

Good point, could be on the money Captain. If that was the case it would take a good driver to quickly get it into reverse low range before it got away.

As said above why attempt it 15 times, stupid idiot. I still reckon CDL was also not engaged.

[mcrover]

Just to add my opinion and nothing more,

In low range with out CDL locked and spat the CDL to pieces.

Heard the bang and stopped, went to drive again and had no drive at all as no CDL.

He would have then in a panic hit the brakes as hard as he could which slides the fender sideways and the rest is history.

Expensive lesson for such little effort no matter what happened, either not go up that hill (that even if it were steep, I would easilly drive it in my Disco, it's not even rutted that bad) or Lock the CDL (READ OPERATORS MANUAL) and drive it.

Could be like a mate of mine that thinks hes a hero by driving as much as he can in 2 wheel drive in his lux.

Problem is that when he gets stuck he has to get out and dig out his hubs to lock them in, I find it quite funny on occasion.

[dmdigital]

Don't know if anyone has read the reply's the person who posted this video has put on their youtube site regarding comments. (WARNING: Coarse, abusive language)

What can I say? They are somewhat obsessed with the misconception that cars made in the United Kingdom are useless... to put it in polite terms :eek:

What is also interesting is this person claims to be an Outback Challenge competitor so I'm guessing they'll be known in the 4WD community.

[cal415]

Watching the video again, i would have thought you would be able to notice the brake lights come on??

And i agree no cdl - the drivers rear wheel is at near full flex i.e less weight on the wheel, i would expect that to be spining flat out if the CDL was locked but it only seems to bite in breifly then you hear the engine reving but seems to have no drive to the rear end,

[Grizzly_Adams]

I expect the appearance of no drive to the wheels would be the effect that traction control was having...

[DarrenR]

Tried 15 times?? I'm not that much of a stickler myself and would have given up on the 3rd, maybe forth attempt (fifth if I've had a beer or 2).
So what was that hill attempt worth $50 - $60k ?? Wow must have been an awesome hill with a pot of gold at the top, sheesh really, is any hill worth that much to conquer ???

Nobody asked if he had off road insurance, myself I've never bothered, but I've also never rolled an expensive Land Rover like that either.
Which prompts me to ask, who does have off road insurance, who with and what's it worth a year?

I'm not an argumentative type of person :eek: so I didn't comment, but this did crack me up...

"Why are all land rover people know it all dick heads."
Yes yes, why is this so ???? hrmmm ???? I mean the "know it all" part

Lets hope he went out and bought a Toyota or a Nissan, as the old holden/ford joke went..
Why did they build toyota/nissan? ... To keep the dickheads out of Land Rovers .... guess one slipped past :D

Best regards
DarrenR

[CraigE]

He may be an Outback Challenge competitor, not necceserally a good one. Anyone can enter.
My problem is his original claim that the ecu failed causing a brake failure is the biggest load of nonsense around. Yes accidents do happen, Yes people do not react quick enough, Yes machinery does break or fail.
The ecu failing and causing lack of brakes. No, definately not. ABS may be lost but the vaccum will still enable braking even if the car stalls. Just another moron looking for something to blame. Seems the brakes did work halfway down the hill though. If he is stupid enough to post a video like that without a decent explanation, he deserves all the flack he cops. Obviously needs to learn a bit about how cars and systems work.
:p

[Debacle]

I think we have softened him up a bit. He is coming around to the fact that his mate is a moron. He is now raving on about having plasma rope fail while winching up vertical rock faces and being able to drive away after.

What a Hero.

[scrambler]

I think we have softened him up a bit. He is coming around to the fact that his mate is a moron. He is now raving on about having plasma rope fail while winching up vertical rock faces and being able to drive away after.

What a Hero.
Mate, he's soft enough up top to begin with.

When he finally describes what actually happened, I do wonder if it's slipped out of gear. But what would I know after all the nonsense he's talked? How could anyone know?

Apparently being a "keyboard warrier" is a bad thing, but posting a video on YouTube makes you a legend. ECU failure is the only possible explanation, even though he doesn't know what it controls. Loss of vacuum will eliminate braking, but he has (apparently) a totally rebuilt Corolla so ought to know something about how hydraulic brakes work! I don't even know what "drift" is (yeah, yeah, but can you do it in a Stage 1? I don't think so!), but it seems anyone with a turbo-charged 4-potter or a V8 ute can do it, so hard can it really be? It clearly doesn't take a genius, if he's anything to go by.

Just who is on crack, I wonder?

[spudboy]

I was wondering if maybe after 15 goes the brake fluid had boiled from the ETC being overused?

I've had a brown undies experience with the brake pedal straight to the floor, but it was after 8 hard laps at Mallala racetrack, and I don't see how he could get the brakes that hot just trying the hill again and again. It would all be done at fairly low speed.

We'll probably never know the real story.

[abaddonxi]

If he went up the hill fifteen times he must've come down it a similar number of times too.

You'd think after that much practice going down the hill backwards he'd have it down pat.

Maybe it was a mechanical failure of some kind.

Cheers
Simon.

[sam_d]

Which prompts me to ask, who does have off road insurance, who with and what's it worth a year?



I have my insurance through NRMA and I specifically asked about off-road driving as it is not mentioned anywhere in the policy documents. Their answer was that provided the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities then it is still covered by the insurance. Or words to that effect anyway.

[Blknight.aus]

ok Just for interests sake I applied a NFW investigation technique to it using only the written facts, ignoring the video and trying to ensure that the most statements (from the post) that could be true are actually true or as close to the truth as possable.


1. ecu caused the engine to loose compression = engine died. Entirely possable, If he was giving it heaps, the traction control overheated from excessive attempts allowing him ro free spin the wheels. If he suddenly got lots of traction in the wrong gear the engine may have stalled.

This is indicitive of poor ground appreciation, lack of vehicle control and insufficient/innapropriate driver training.

2. The stalled engine caused there to be no brakes. = I had little or no effective brakes. If the one way valve on the vacume manifold of the brake boosted had failed or there was a leak from the booster diaprhagm an engine stall might have lead to nearly instant loss of vaccume. Given the 15 attempts taken the ABS/TC pump may have been operated past its limits and shut down due to over heating. When the engine stalled if his brakes had been overheated from excessive use from the Traction control system then the already reduced available braking force will have been further reduced.

If the booster is found to not be able to hold vaccume this is indicitive of poor maintenance/incorrect user inspection/operational observation.

If the TC had used the brakes to the point of brake fade this is indicitive of poor user training/poor vehicle operation.

3. The operator had made 15 prior attempts to preform the ascent. = operator was tasked beyond the capabilities of the operator/Vehicle.

The Operator should have ceased the attempt of the obstacle and reconoitered an alternative route/ used a more appropriate vehicle/hand recovered the vehicle over the obstacle/utilised an alternative winching source.

other contributing factors that have been listed are

1. use of the clutch while reversing. This is denied, IF true this indicates a undesired selection of a nuetral gear from either the transfer case or the main transmission, given the nature of the driving this is possable from worn componentry within the selectors or transmission, inadvertant striking of the gear levers or mechanical failure of the transmission. If examination of the transmission preculeds a mechanical failure or excessive wear then it must be assumed that the gear selection was accidentally knocked into neutral.

(it must be noted that in the situation, given the confined layout of the vehicles controls the operator may have inadvertanly operated the clutch believing he was operating the brakes.)

The primary cause for excessive wear or component failure is incorrect maintenace/inspection precluding this cause system abuse is the most likely culprit. This is caused by, intentional misuse, innapropriate technique/lack of training and operator error.

Its late, that'l do,

Anyone spot a reccuring theme to all points mentioned...

[p38arover]

Anyone spot a reccuring theme to all points mentioned...

Yep. I've read his replies and the recurring theme is that it was the fault of the POS Land Rover.

Ron

[DirtyDawg]

What a phallas head..who would hard right hand down on a speed descent down an rocky incline..he deserved it but the poor car needs a descent owner:mad:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

What a phallas head..who would hard right hand down on a speed descent down an rocky incline..he deserved it but the poor car needs a descent owner:mad:

Actually, that particular car is unlikely to ever need a owner again :eek:

[VladTepes]

Hmm I seem to have rubbed her / him up the wrong way.
What a sensitive soul.

[Quiggers]

I can't believe you'd do anything like that Vlad......:twisted:

Frankly, I wonder why the hill wasn't blamed?

GQ

[spudboy]

You have to admire his persistence at defending his mate! This has been going for days now, and there are 6 pages of comments (mostly from him).

I'd have got sick of it long ago and moved on to something else.

[ak]

I have my insurance through NRMA and I specifically asked about off-road driving as it is not mentioned anywhere in the policy documents. Their answer was that provided the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities then it is still covered by the insurance. Or words to that effect anyway.

I am with NRMA too and " the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities" how is that judged? where's the yard stick? that's the biggest get off the hook card if ever I've seen one. I hate insurance companies.:angry:

[cartm58]

Driver Training is something we don't do properly in this country

When l was 17 (32 years ago) and learning to drive from my father, l spent a year on L plates driving him everywhere daylight, evening and night fine weather and storms, was taught to drive at a consistent spend without the benefit of a cruise control, was taught how to reverse park, how to drive in reverse down a country lane at 30 mph using only mirrors to guide you, hill descent start both going forwards and in reverse, parking on a hill turning wheels into gutter, how to tow a trailer and reverse park it, so and so on.

Dad said he didn't want any of children dying on the roads because they didn't know how to drive a vehicle.

Licenses are given out to readily and too easily and applicants do not spend enough time building up under supervision their skills and knowledge and the driving test is a joke.

If we were serious about reducing the road toll we would change this situation but seeing we are merely revenue raising give every idiot a license and let them speed anywhere they want as long as they pay their fines who really cares, govt certaintly don't

[Reads90]

Driver Training is something we don't do properly in this country

When l was 17 (32 years ago) and learning to drive from my father, l spent a year on L plates driving him everywhere daylight, evening and night fine weather and storms, was taught to drive at a consistent spend without the benefit of a cruise control, was taught how to reverse park, how to drive in reverse down a country lane at 30 mph using only mirrors to guide you, hill descent start both going forwards and in reverse, parking on a hill turning wheels into gutter, how to tow a trailer and reverse park it, so and so on.

Dad said he didn't want any of children dying on the roads because they didn't know how to drive a vehicle.

Licenses are given out to readily and too easily and applicants do not spend enough time building up under supervision their skills and knowledge and the driving test is a joke.

If we were serious about reducing the road toll we would change this situation but seeing we are merely revenue raising give every idiot a license and let them speed anywhere they want as long as they pay their fines who really cares, govt certaintly don't


Well now you bring it up. After coming from the uk where there are 42 million cars Twice the amoutnt of people than in aus and the place is the size of a postage stamp compaired to Aus.
A large percentage of Aus drivers simply can't drive at all. The things i have seen people done just never ceases to amaze me :ph34r:
Mine you i do think most of them are not thougherbred Aus though and did get their lincese on a Cornflakes packet

[BigJon]

I agree wholeheartedly with Cartm58 on this issue.

[DirtyDawg]

Well now you bring it up. After coming from the uk where there are 42 million cars Twice the amoutnt of people than in aus and the place is the size of a postage stamp compaired to Aus.
A large percentage of Aus drivers simply can't drive at all. The things i have seen people done just never ceases to amaze me :ph34r:" smilieid="195" class="inlineimg" />
Mine you i do think most of them are not thougherbred Aus though and did get their lincese on a Cornflakes packet
Jesus, no wonder you live here......imagine the noise if they all started whinging at the same time.....;)

[Reads90]

Jesus, no wonder you live here......imagine the noise if they all started whinging at the same time.....;)


:D :D :D :D

[DarrenR]

I am with NRMA too and " the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities" how is that judged? where's the yard stick? that's the biggest get off the hook card if ever I've seen one. I hate insurance companies.:angry:

Well as everyone around the WWW knows, Land Rover owners know all, so I guess the Insurance companies should really consult with members of AULRO as to a 4WDrive's capabilities, and hey if they argue the point we can show them a Camel Trophy DVD :D

I'm going to go and hammer RACQ now to find out what they will cover. Mind you not that I have any intention of putting my Land Rover ass up..... because that would just be plain stupid now wouldn't it?

Thanks for the info sam d & ak.

Best regards
DarrenR

[vnx205]

I have my insurance through NRMA and I specifically asked about off-road driving as it is not mentioned anywhere in the policy documents. Their answer was that provided the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities then it is still covered by the insurance. Or words to that effect anyway.
Do insurance companies work on the same principle as those companies that offer a lifetime warranty on a product? When a product fails, it has by definition reached the end of its life, so the warranty has expired.
Insurance companies might assume that if you get stuck or break something then that in itself is proof you were taking the vehicle beyond its capabilities.

[vnx205]

You have to admire his persistence at defending his mate!
Yes, but did you notice he spends about as much time boasting about his own skill or experience as he does defending his mate? Then he has the temerity to criticise other people who mention their level of experience.

[sam_d]

I am with NRMA too and " the vehicle is not being driven or used in terrain beyond it's capabilities" how is that judged? where's the yard stick? that's the biggest get off the hook card if ever I've seen one. I hate insurance companies.:angry:

It does seem like a get out but at least it's better than saying that it should not be used off road at all I suppose.

[PeterM]

I checked with AAMI and as long as it is marked on a map I'm allright.

[Blknight.aus]

the usual rule of thumb is

1. onroad use is a formed blacktop road or in remote australia any road marked as a thick red line on the map (major roadway)
2. onroad use is any track marked on any readily obtainable map,

Which essentially means no use on private properties or in comp tracks as they usually only appear on specialist maps. .pdf maps of national park tracks are acceptable providing they are in sufficient detail to allow someone else to easily get to if you were to give it to them with a marker to indicate location..

(I cant get that to sound right)

[Wortho]

Seems to me that as the first 14 attempts were not put on camera, he was trying to be a hero in front of his mates and reverse then spin his car round and continue forward down the hill hence the sharp turn unfortunatly followed by a roll, it's an easy thing to do on the flat, reverse spin and drive out, but obviously with their level of EXPERTISE he felt that the laws of physics don't apply to legends, who, even though they state that they don't even know you guys who replied, reckon they could "smoke you".
Even if the engine did stop, even if the brakes completly failed, even if the ecu completly died, the engine would not lose compression, even if 4 of the five pistons ring just vanished a diesel would still have enough compression in the one cylinder to slowly roll backwards if he was in first low, even if his motor completly carked it it would likley have locked up causeing him to stop completly.
Speed does'nt kill, the Di*&head behind the wheel does.

[CraigE]

Wortho,
Never thought of that scenario. Quite plausible too. That just makes him an even bigger tosser. Smoke all the guys on this forum, I think not, not going by that video anyway.
;)

Seems to me that as the first 14 attempts were not put on camera, he was trying to be a hero in front of his mates and reverse then spin his car round and continue forward down the hill hence the sharp turn unfortunatly followed by a roll, it's an easy thing to do on the flat, reverse spin and drive out, but obviously with their level of EXPERTISE he felt that the laws of physics don't apply to legends, who, even though they state that they don't even know you guys who replied, reckon they could "smoke you".
Even if the engine did stop, even if the brakes completly failed, even if the ecu completly died, the engine would not lose compression, even if 4 of the five pistons ring just vanished a diesel would still have enough compression in the one cylinder to slowly roll backwards if he was in first low, even if his motor completly carked it it would likley have locked up causeing him to stop completly.
Speed does'nt kill, the Di*&head behind the wheel does.

[VladTepes]

Well he/she could smoke you all coz he / she is an absolute legend, he/she says so him/her self.

Why, aren't you convinced yet ?!



LOL

[CraigE]

OK I am sorry (in my best submissive voice).:o

Last person I had carry on like that at a rope rescue session ended up hanging sideways on a cliff very sore part way down. Way over confident. In hindsight should have banned him from a descent.
:twisted: :twisted:

[BigJon]

In hindsight should have banned him from a descent.
:twisted: :twisted:

Then who would you have laughed at? :eek: :p

[Utemad]

Last person I had carry on like that at a rope rescue session ended up hanging sideways on a cliff very sore part way down. Way over confident. In hindsight should have banned him from a descent.
:twisted: :twisted:

Pfft that wouldn't have been nearly as much fun.

This has hit 10 pages :eek: My longest thread ever :)

[Debacle]

That makes a bit of sense because what really stuck in my mind was the fact that the guy kept on filming rather than drop the camera and help out his mates.
Another weird thing is, if the hill was that steep that a Landy couldnt climb it then shouldnt it have rolled a bit more rather than just flipping over.


Seems to me that as the first 14 attempts were not put on camera, he was trying to be a hero in front of his mates and reverse then spin his car round and continue forward down the hill hence the sharp turn unfortunatly followed by a roll, it's an easy thing to do on the flat, reverse spin and drive out, but obviously with their level of EXPERTISE he felt that the laws of physics don't apply to legends, who, even though they state that they don't even know you guys who replied, reckon they could "smoke you".
Even if the engine did stop, even if the brakes completly failed, even if the ecu completly died, the engine would not lose compression, even if 4 of the five pistons ring just vanished a diesel would still have enough compression in the one cylinder to slowly roll backwards if he was in first low, even if his motor completly carked it it would likley have locked up causeing him to stop completly.
Speed does'nt kill, the Di*&head behind the wheel does.