GPS PDA Smartphone

[solmanic]

I am sure that parts of this question have been dealt with elswhere in this forum, but I am wanting feedback for a specific combination - so here goes...

I need:
A PDA (Preferably windows mobile so I can best sync. outlook)
A phone (the more bands the better - I travel OS frequently)
A GPS navigation system (urban mainly - able to directly input destinations from outlook contacts when selected)
Wi-fi & bluetooth enabled
Smallest possible form-factor (currently have a SE P800 which is a bit of a fatty)

I know this is asking a lot but I also know that there are devices out there that can do all of this (Dopod P800W for example). The question is, what's the BEST solution.

Now some PDA smartphones such as the Dopod and Mitac Mio have built-in GPS antennae, but I need to use this in a Defender and I have had trouble with other devices I have tested which can't lock on to satellites because the windscreen angle is too steep. If I am faced with needing an external GPS antenna, then I don't need a built-in one, just bluetooth.

There also seem to be so many GPS mapping software systems available (and I know many are discussed here too) that I am confused beyond belief. If a handheld comes with a packages system, then I don't really care as long as it works but if I have to choose my own mapping system I want to get a decent one.

Commence data input...

[Tusker]

Where to begin, its all confusing

Poke around

http://www.mtekk.com.au/Forums/tabid/56/view/topics/forumid/17/Default.aspx

and

http://www.mtekk.com.au/Forums/tabid/56/view/topics/forumid/29/Default.aspx

Why does it all have to be on the one device? Wouldn't a decent pda & standalone satnav come in at about the same $$$, when you factor in the satnav software & the bluetooth gps?

I wouldn't worry about GPS reception in the Defender. The SirfIII receivers out there now are outstanding. No probs with mine.

Anyway, a PDA running WM5 will also run Co-Pilot for street nav. Charging the bluetooth GPS on a long trip will be a pain. Ok for around town.

FWIW I'm running an Imate Jasjam, & Oziexplorer CE with bluetooth GPS for the bush. Around town its a TomTom One. I hardwired the tomtom, bonus being the cable will charge the gps as well. but the 2g micro sd card isn't enough for the detailed topos - the NSW pack is 2 dvds worth.

Regards
Max P

[jik22]

A friend in the UK has the HP hw6915, which isn't available here that I can see, but pretty easy and small to get posted. He raves about it, but says use of the GPS kills the battery, which is already a problem with the PDA/phone devices with big screens. If it wasn't for the fact I'm stuck to devices supported by my IS department because of things like the email and VPN hook-up's, I'd try one - even though it isn't 3G/UMTS.

However, much as I would love the same combination as you, up until now I've always been underwhelmed with at least one area of the all-in-ones, so have typically resigned them back to the desk drawer and used seperate devices instead.

Right now, I have an XDA2 (Crap Bluetooth stack with headset, car kit and GPS receiver, as well as poor battery life) and a XDA miniS (Poor keyboard, no 3G) I no longer use as a phone due to poor voice performance, and am back with a SE v630i which gets me voice and 3g modem in a small package. In the car I have an old TomTom Go 500, which is near perfect, and good enough that I've resisted the upgrade to the 910. It is suffering a bit with the rate of road building around Perth though. :)

As I don't pay the bills personally, I have the XDA miniS in the laptop bag on a data-only tariff just for real-time access to my work email & calander system, but this is overkill - I could live with syncing it to my laptop daily if I had to, and if I did that, I'd buy a better PDA!!

Not much help, sorry! :confused:

[Outlaw]

there was a motorola one from memory something 1000 that had the built in gps antenna/pda style running on the 3 network but not sure if UMTS 850 for NextG or not.

Watching with interest as i've wanted exactly the same setup for a while now and need to change soon

[Michael2]

... but I need to use this in a Defender and I have had trouble with other devices I have tested which can't lock on to satellites because the windscreen angle is too steep. If I am faced with needing an external GPS antenna, then I don't need a built-in one, just bluetooth....

I haven't had a problem with an older handheld GPS sitting on the dash of the Defender, but it's a pretty precarious spot. On the SIII I had a GPS on a windscreen suction cup mounted phone holder with no problems (except for really rough tracks). But an alternative location for the GPS on the Defender is at the alpine windows (roof windows), where it can sit quite unobtrusively. Just the lead to the PDA is awkward, but it's a good position if you have a back seat passenger doing the navigation.

[EchiDna]

I use a sirf III chipset bluetooth GPS unit - it came with a standard nokia phone battery and USB style charger cable. Sirf III is very low power and very good reception - for example it works in the centre of my house on the ground floor (concrete floor above, brick walls around)... even works under bridges etc while in the car and attached to my windscreen visor with a big rubberband. It's a Holux GPSlim GR-236, but anything with the Sirf III chpset is great. http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/gr236.php for a review. that's my GPS covered...

Phone wise I use a Dopod 818 pro - 18 months old and not available in Oz AFAIK, but newer models are a bit better. anything with WM5 or 6 operating system can do what you are after, but try to get one with a STEREO bluetooth output (A2DP compliant) so you can also wirelessly stream music from the PDA into your car hifi :)

[grumpybastard]

I think most of the smartphones run the 400 mhz processor which is fine for most things except watching movies.

I would be looking out for memory expandability eg SD or Cf card slots, robust construction (sooner or later you are going to drop it) and screen size.

Windows mobile 5 or 2003se isnt IMHO a real consideration i still prefer 2003se

[solmanic]

I am encouraged by the comments regarding the SirfIII GPS systems - this is what the PDAs I've been investigating all use. It was a couple of years ago when I first tested some Navman & Garmin systems and found the problem with satellite lock in the Defender.

It absolutely, positively must be all-in-one. I really need the GPS destination input automatically from Outlook contacts feature. I don't need to hard-wire the device in anywhere as it is mainly for one-off trips out and about in town to clients/consultants/site etc.

I generally leave my current PDA/phone on it's charging cradle whenever I am in the office and sync. sometime twice a day (depending on how many appointments get added to my schedule). Hence the need for Windows and seamless Outlook hot-sync.

Keep the good advice coming...

[solmanic]

I would be looking out for memory expandability eg SD or Cf card slots, robust construction (sooner or later you are going to drop it) and screen size.

This is a continual disappointment for me with ALL PDA phones. If an iPod can have 80GB storage, why can't a regular PDA. I would then sync. ALL my Outlook mail to the device so I could browse stuff in meetings. So often someone says "blah blah - it was in that email I sent you...". I would also consider using the device as an external backup drive.

The upcoming iPhone is the only device that seems to be heading in this direction but it is still way short of iPod storage levels.

[solmanic]

but try to get one with a STEREO bluetooth output (A2DP compliant) so you can also wirelessly stream music from the PDA into your car hifi :)

Assuming you have a bluetooth stereo... sigh.

[incisor]

Phone wise I use a Dopod 818 pro - 18 months old and not available in Oz
they are the imate jamin in AU

[EchiDna]

Assuming you have a bluetooth stereo... sigh.

I do :)

admitedly not in my 110....

use the new alpine bluetooth adapter KCE-300BT - it streams whatever data you are playing on the PDA, so GPS instructions, audio files, telephone calls... all through the car hifi :)

works a treat!
...but of course you need a pretty high end alpine head unit to use it. There are also similar models from Pioneer and Sony are around, dunno if in Oz or not...

[EchiDna]

they are the imate jamin in AU

I stand corrected! :D

[cal415]

I have a Ipaq HW6965 - it has built in GPS - i run Oziexplorer CE(4wding) and TomTom(for city) on it, It also has built in bluetooth and WiFi, Built in phone as well. Battery life is pretty poor especialy using it for GPS without power connected but its fine with a car charger. It runs WM5 and has the basic mobile office apps loaded - sync with my outlook email fine.

Great little unit it gets a good work out :)

[cal415]

oh best bit was it cost me around 600 new when they were first released (HP contactor special :) :) ) I think they retail around the 1100 mark but can be picked up for 700-800 with tomtom i beleive. I occasionaly get offers on them come through if your interested let me know and i will keep an eye out.

[Tusker]

Looking at one of your requirements again, I was about to say I wasn't aware of any PDA satnav programme that would interface with Outlook. Co-Pilot doesn't seem to have this ability.

Except Destinator. There it is.

http://www.phoenixitd.com.au/destinator/products/destinator6features.htm

Quite nifty, this feature. Might go this way myself when the Tomtom dies.

Regards
Max P

[incisor]

i personally think destinator is wayyyyyy better than tomtom...

[solmanic]

I have heard good things said about Destinator elsewhere too. I will need to follow them up directly to check compatability with these two devices which I have identified as having the features I am after...

Dopod P800W
http://www.dopodasia.com/global/au/products/pda_p800w/pda_p800w_fea.html

E-ten gofiish X500
http://www.glofiish.com/products/Communication/X500.php

Both are available in Australia but from on-line retailers only (I think the E-ten device is an asian import only). If anyone has information on actual physical retailers stocking these it would be appreciated.

Other devices I have researched an ruled out at this stage include...
HP iPaq 6515 - just too bulky.
Mitac Mio A701 - no Wi-fi, only tri-band GSM, only Bluetooth 1.2

And I am undecided about the following which have quad-band GSM, Windows mobile 5.0 and GPS.
E-ten gofiish M700 (bulkier but faster than the X500)
O2 XDA Orbit

There are others in the same family as these - many are the same guts in different boxes sold by different OEMs (eg. O2 and HTC). It is also a bit confusing as to who of these many OEMs actually sells in Australia with Australian warranties. It is so easy to buy devices on-line from supposedly Australian retailers but they are actually direct importing from Asia or Europe with no local warranty.

The search continues...

[Blknight.aus]

im just getting the mio a701, its got all the features and it got gps a lock on inside the store I was checking it out in, It found all the bluetooth stuff in the shop (including the wifes pda which was turned on in the car outside)

I like the look of the sofrtware on it, it will run the explorer ce that I like to use for my long distance nav and off road stuff.

I'll give you a report on it when i get it up..

downside.. gsm only, but it is tri band.

I just wish i hadnt killed my old mio168, did everything i needed but now the screens dead...

[solmanic]

I am going a bit stir-crazy as new devices with all-in-one GPS capability seem to be coming out of the woodwork. Very few are actually available here in Oz but that doesn't seem like too big a hurdle.

The latest contender is the Asus P535 which is hell-fast and tidy.
http://event.asus.com/2006/mobile/p535/en/index.html

At latest count there are at least three devices which are exactly the same inside so I am limiting my search to what is available at the right price. The Dopod P800W = O2 XDA Orbit = HTC P3300

[EchiDna]

..... If anyone has information on actual physical retailers stocking these it would be appreciated......


in singapore? :D

[Outlaw]

Heya Tusker, how's the Jasjam as a all in one? I'm tossing up between that and the Palm Treo 750 atm

[Tusker]

I'm very happy with it, works well with the System 8 car kit.

Theres just been an upgrade for it, I can get 15 mins of Foxtel now. Wow.

The remote syncing is the most important thing for me with travelling in the country, & works well. There's plenty of pda sites to surf when I'm bored, like the Sydney Morning Herald or the BBC. Accessing AULRO on it is a bit fiddly :(

OziExplorer Ce is a bit limited viz how many maps you can get on a 2 gig card. Not enough.

Font size is a bit small, I guess that's the same with them all. Need glasses most of the time. Didn't have this problem with the Symbian OS on the last phone though. I'm experiement with themes to see which has the best contrast. Current one is an Aston Martin theme, very clean, & easy to see.

Got some SE stereo bluetooth earbuds for it as well.

Its a good phone.

Regards
Max P

[Piddler]

Hi Tusker,
I was looking at that one does it have an external arial connection from the car kit?

I need a big **** 71/2DB arial for the country.
My current CDMA is using that ariel and it makes a huge difference to reception so I would like to do the same again when I go Next G?

Cheers

[Outlaw]

got a JasJam on friday and still playing... seems an okay phone but i think my bluetooth headset is a dud.

Now just need to find where to grab the gps software from.

[Blknight.aus]

I got the mio digiwalker a701, its brilliant

it came with a 1gig mem card that has the inbuilt maps on it and enough room for about half of australia in oziexplorer ce's map format in 1:250,000.

its software is faster to fiqure out whats what than my old mio 168 but the whole thing is about 10 seconds slower on inital boot (shouldnt need to do that often) and about 4 seconds slower to get the nav spoftware (not ozi) loaded.

But as for gps connection and location find, 3 minutes for the first lock.

On a reset it took 10 minutes but I was inside a steel parts cage inside a cgi shed. (hiding from the boss while I played with the new gps)

the phone works well and the pda has all my old 168 had and some more, the only thing missing is the voice record button that was so helpful on the 168..

the kit it comes with is comprehensive including the cds, earphones, usb cable 240v charger and car charger, protective pouch and windshiled mount...

Im impressed so far... and its not much bigger than my kyocrea phone thats now looking like its future is in jeopardy.


all i need is a sim card for gsm..

[solmanic]

Now just need to find where to grab the gps software from.

Hmm, now I might have seen an Australian maps version of TomTom Navigator 6 for Pocket PC on a torrent site somewhere (could be http://www.mininova.org/). But downloading that would be illegal.:angel:

[solmanic]

Well, after a long search, I have chosen this -
http://www.dopodasia.com/global/au/products/images/m/d810.jpg
The Dopod D810. This is a reasonably fast and compact PDA phone running Windows Mobile 5.0. Dopod don't advertise it as having GPS but after reading a few reviews (notably cnet.asia) I discovered that the manufacturer has just "disabled" the GPS feature due to a clash with the GSM reception. This has now been fixed with a downloadable ROM update from HTC (the OEM) so IT IS A GPS DEVICE.

In addition to it having all the features, it is a 3.5G phone (whatever that is - I only thought there was 3G) AND it is small and very tidy looking. Best of all, as far as I'm concerned, it has a side jog-wheel which enables scrolling and clicking one handed - a feature I have on my current phone but have been unable to find on any others.

I have ordered it and will give another update when it arrives (if it ever does - I'm sure the Ebay shop guy is legit. but I shouldn't get over excited just in case...)

[solmanic]

Well the phone arrived so fast it made my head spin. It is every bit as good as I had hoped. I'm now writing this post on the device using wi fi and IE on a postage stamp size screen but its still pretty good.By far the best thing is that after some hunting I found the GPS ROM update and now have TomTom 6 installed and running fine.So all is good - I'm just getting RSI from writing this.

[Outlaw]

crap thats got the same features as the jasjam i just bought but mine hasn't got the gps built in i need a bluetooth one

[solmanic]

Well after a few days, things are still great with the new device. I am using Tomtom Navigator 6 and so far it has been way impressive. Voice commands are clear and simple and it occasionally seems to know the road layout better than I do.

Tried to trick it yesterday by picking a destination on a service road beside the motorway. I was fully expecting to fly-by the place and have to exit and double back - but the navigator picked it and exited beforehand.

I don't think I will actually need a dash-mount after all. Just lying the device in the cubby-tray is good enough. I can hear the commands and if I need to check the map I just glance down (still easier than a street directory). The tray is nicely padded too so it doesn't damage the oh-so-sexy black finish in the phone.

One thing that surprised me was the voice control feature of the phone. There is a built-in application called "Voice Commander" which has full speech recognition and text-to-speech functionality. No need to pre-record commands - it has a full vocabulary built-in. I have noticed that it helps to use an American accent when speaking as Strine sometimes gives odd results.

[solmanic]

Incidentally - GPS lock on the D810 from cold-start is about 2 minutes outdoors. Warm start is about 10-15 sec. Indoors it takes longer.

[Tusker]

Can u pls post up the GPS ROM upgrade? I send me a pm?

I assume nothing else was lost in the upgrade?

I'll look into, & see whether it would work on the JasJam as well. Essentially the same device I think.

Telstra have just done a flash upgrade. They did say to backup everything. But I didn't expect to lose themes, today screen plugins, the lot. Spent forever again getting Activesync to work with our server..

Regards
Max P

[solmanic]

The ROM upgrade was a complete upgrade - all installed data wiped (so I did this first before getting too settled in).

I don't think the JasJam is the same - the code name for the Dopod D810 is Trinity. Jasjam is known by the code name Hermes.

In case you're still interested, here is the link to the Trinity ROM upgrade thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php't=293809

This forum also has a Hermes area so you might find cooked ROM updates there.