a bit of a warning re hyland trailer couplings. [Archive]

incisor

18th April 2007, 03:53 PM

I have created a bit of a kaffule on the camper trailers mailing list.

i have a client who is heavily involved in the caravan and trailer repair industry. he and i were talking about these couplings as i had heard they were good and was interested in buying one.

bugger...

it appears they have a bit of a problem with some setups, espcially those with 90kg or heavier ball weight.

if you need to use load levellers you really should not use one of them as they grab the towball and undo it :P

have a look here (http://www.aulro.com/app/showgallery.php/cat/510)

it is not an isolated case.

seqfisho

18th April 2007, 07:48 PM

Diff

18th April 2007, 08:56 PM

I am a bit supprise both Kedron and Bushtracker use these hitches. By the way what is the site you are refering to?

Blknight.aus

18th April 2007, 10:00 PM

ida thought locktite on the threads, a double nut and some moly on the ball would have stopped this...

but I havent played seriouly with those hitches...

When i tow real big and heavy I got straight to a pintle, (or 5th wheel if i get the choice)

Pedro_The_Swift

19th April 2007, 07:33 AM

incisor

19th April 2007, 09:03 AM

How happy am I that I decided against the Hyland on the new trailer and went with an AT35 despite the difficulty in getting it lined up each time.

And fancy you stirring the pot over there at campertrailer land, shame on you:p:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

i didnt do it to stir...

it really concerns me what i have seen since starting to look into this.

the slowly undoing the towball one freaks me out....

he hadnt told me about that one but was reminded when one came into the yard when i was on the phone to him asking for permission to give his email to the guy running the campertrailer list.

if you need load levelers DONT use a hyland. and to be legal most toyotas need levellers with a 120kg ball weight, i am told!

i am certainly coping some **** over it...

incisor

19th April 2007, 09:07 AM

a tiny bit of understatement there I fancy:eek:
:p

it isnt hard at all once you work it out :P

i remove the whole hitch from the drawbar, i get the missus to back the truck while i line it up... after a few initial practice runs we do it in no time flat most of the time now :P

padlock never comes off the at35 these days and i have modified a plastic bottle to put over the assembly to keep the crap out of it.

Pedro_The_Swift

19th April 2007, 09:09 AM

they certainly look bullitproof:eek:

incisor

19th April 2007, 09:10 AM

ida thought locktite on the threads, a double nut and some moly on the ball would have stopped this...

no it doesnt... it usually breaks something :P

the head of the coupling snaps off or the ball shears, usually.

incisor

19th April 2007, 09:15 AM

I am a bit supprise both Kedron and Bushtracker use these hitches. By the way what is the site you are refering to?
bushtracker...

i can say very little of what i know but i have heard of a few problems with their smaller offroad vans and the hitch, all heard second hand, i have no first hand knowledge but my source is extremely reliable IMO.

abaddonxi

19th April 2007, 10:01 AM

Here's a page of descriptions for those of us who have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.campertrailers.org/couplings.htm

Would I be right in saying that: because the load levellers stiffen the whole joint up, and because the Hyland hitch has the axes of rotation at two different points along the shank that all of the movement is transferred to the ball and socket join and since the Hyland has a socket that runs completely over the socket and runs flush to the tongue.

Take a breath.

So, a lot of pitch and roll that should be absorbed by the pivots is carried by the ball and socket, but the Hyland hitch doesn't allow enough movement of the ball and socket to absorb that movement.

From the Kedron page (http://www.overlander.com.au/equipment/index/full/47/Kedron-Camper) there is this:

They like a Hyland Hitch for this sort of use. It still uses a 50mm ball, but the ball is set on a higher shank than standard and the hitch allows a full 360 degree rotation as well as more than adequate articulation through gullies and creek crossings.

I wonder if the trailers that had problems had the higher shank, and if having a higher shank allows movement of the ball and socket.

Cheers
Simon

incisor

19th April 2007, 12:53 PM

on the long shank 2 tonne ball, the levelers cause the hyland to lean over till it grabs the ball or shank and rips the crap out of the lip of the cup as it moves around, or gouges the ball if it is softer than the cup casing. it does it without the levellers on very heavy offroad use as well aparently.

this can be a slow or fast process depending on the environment and weight of the van etc etc

nothing really centers the cup except weight, it fully floats fore and aft.

on the 3 tonne ball it levers against the towbar and ball, slowly undoes the ball or rips it off or rips the crap out of the cup, depending on how many right and left turns you happen to make.

the fact that hyland now recommend the 2 tonne ball indicates to me that they are well aware of the problem and have a solution to help solve it, but that it doesnt help in all circumstances.

levellers start to be needed from 90kg ball weight and up behind many popular vehicles i am told.

and using the old 10% rule thats only a 900kg trailer weight...

that list is pretty much the peak user group for camper trailers in AU and i find it disturbing that they are not prepared to investergate something like this, other than to ring the supplier and ask if he knows of any problems :P

i sent the list owner a private email, with my mates email address so he could contact him as an independant third party and verify what i was saying. he never even had the curtesy to answer my email :P

i know of no other hitch design that can exhibit these problems, yet.

seqfisho

19th April 2007, 06:02 PM

it isnt hard at all once you work it out :P

i remove the whole hitch from the drawbar, i get the missus to back the truck while i line it up... after a few initial practice runs we do it in no time flat most of the time now :P

padlock never comes off the at35 these days and i have modified a plastic bottle to put over the assembly to keep the crap out of it.

To be honest we really have very little problem either and they take alot of the shock transmission out of towing that you get with a ball connection.

What do you mean about a padlock Dave? what part is permanently locked?

I'm lucky enough to have two tounges one with the AT35 hitch and the other with a standard 50mm ball.;)

seqfisho

19th April 2007, 06:17 PM

the fact that hyland now recommend the 2 tonne ball indicates to me that they are well aware of the problem and have a solution to help solve it, but that it doesnt help in all circumstances.

that list is pretty much the peak user group for camper trailers in AU and i find it disturbing that they are not prepared to investergate something like this, other than to ring the supplier and ask if he knows of any problems :P

i sent the list owner a private email, with my mates email address so he could contact him as an independant third party and verify what i was saying. he never even had the curtesy to answer my email :P

i know of no other hitch design that can exhibit these problems, yet.

I have seen a few hylands in operation and every one I saw had the cup angled over against the ball on either the LH or RH side, to me this means that the cup is wearing on the ball stem and or cup rim, it is not rocket science it has to wear:o the other reason I declined the hyland and went the extra couple of $$ for the AT35 is that to remove any sloppyness in the coupling (ball and cup) you need to have it perfectly adjusted which to me means tight and that then works against the principal of having the smooth movement in the coupling, add to that dust, sand and corrugations etc and heavy ball weights you are just asking for trouble.

I would think the CT forum owners are just doing some CYA and looking after potential sponsors etc, if they were really serious they would put the damn forum on a decent service and not that stupid yahoo crap:mad:

Utemad

19th April 2007, 06:37 PM

I would think the CT forum owners are just doing some CYA and looking after potential sponsors etc, if they were really serious they would put the damn forum on a decent service and not that stupid yahoo crap:mad:

I have a standard coupling on my camper trailer. Still don't know what to replace it with. I was thinking of the Hyland for ease of use. Like when we had to disconnect the trailer in soft sand (DI Point no.1 cutting) and turn the Disco around, spin the trailer around and reconnect. Would've been a real bitch with a Tregg or similar. Also thinking Orac for simpleness and low profile.

However this doesn't sound good. I was already sort of put off the Hyland just by looking at it. It just looks weak and complicated.

I don't bother with the campertrailer Yahoo thing either. It is just a PITA along with all the other lists. Unless I really really really want to know something and I have exhausted every other avenue.

seqfisho

19th April 2007, 07:37 PM

I have a standard coupling on my camper trailer. Still don't know what to replace it with.

Go for the AT35, you will never break one and they aren't really that hard to hitch up, they haven't caused any break ups between the missus and me yet and we did do a hook up one night on very uneven cut up ground, just nice and slow with good directions and we got it first attempt:o

Utemad

19th April 2007, 07:46 PM

they haven't caused any break ups between the missus and me yet....... just nice and slow with good directions and we got it first attempt:o

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha

The first time I asked her to help me I hit the trailer before she said stop. Now she is scared and stops me a foot away :D

abaddonxi

19th April 2007, 07:55 PM

Go for the AT35, you will never break one and they aren't really that hard to hitch up, they haven't caused any break ups between the missus and me yet and we did do a hook up one night on very uneven cut up ground, just nice and slow with good directions and we got it first attempt:o

Funny thing, same thing with my missus, and we haven't got a trailer.

:D:D:D

Cheers
Simon

Redback

11th December 2007, 06:45 AM

I found some info on this and it's the same theroy as abaddonxi had, apparently the tow ball for these is supposed to be higher than a standard towball, to keep the hitch off the tounge and give some clearence for locking it down.

Some owners of this hitch have been having their locks break on the locking mechinisim over rough roads, maybe this is what is causing this one with the hayman load leveler to undo the ball, the ball isn't high enough.

Baz.

incisor

11th December 2007, 08:14 AM

I found some info on this and it's the same theroy as abaddonxi had, apparently the tow ball for these is supposed to be higher than a standard towball, to keep the hitch off the tounge and give some clearence for locking it down.

the ball gripping isn't solved by the higher shank on the ball, it does alleviate it to some degree but doesn't solve it. the ball can still rotate and jam under some situations.

not to mention the problem of people not being made aware of how dangerous these hitches are if you put load levellers on with them....

RonMcGr

11th December 2007, 08:37 AM

Thanks for the info, Dave.

I passed it on to our Caravanning/Camping forum.
You never know...

Cheers,

RonMcGr

11th December 2007, 09:58 AM

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha

The first time I asked her to help me I hit the trailer before she said stop. Now she is scared and stops me a foot away :D

Justin,

You need a camera :D

Without out it, we would have been in the divorce court years ago :)

Cheers,

RonMcGr

11th December 2007, 01:53 PM

From my Caravanning forum:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
INCORRECT BALL.
The correct Ball for a Hyland Hitch has an extended shank between its Base and the Ball.

As an engineer I would also recommend a Flat Washer under the Spring Washer.

Footnore: NSW Legislation also says that the Chains MUST be crossed. Other States recommend that they be crossed.
ozjohn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looks like the guy needs to replace the ball with the extended shank and stick another washer under it.

Cheers,
Ron

incisor

11th December 2007, 02:19 PM

RonMcGr

11th December 2007, 03:15 PM

as i stated in an earlier post....

the hitch will still grab the ball with the extended shank with load levellers installed.

the extended ball only has a 2 tonne limit.

the one in the pic just happened to be a short one that had just travelled from a caravan joint on the northside of brissy to caboolture...

in brissy they had tightened it up and said it would be fine and sent him on his way...

didnt get far....

PS

engineer you say....putting a flat washer under a spring washer defeats the purpose of the spring washer...

So he has a long shank on it now, and still problems?

There were some comments from others on the forum, with long shanks who have had no problems.

Yeah, the flat wassher looked a bit sus to me as well.
Maybe that is why OzJohn now runs a Caravan Park chain :)

Cheers,

incisor

11th December 2007, 03:42 PM

There were some comments from others on the forum, with long shanks who have had no problems.

get them to look and see if there is any wear on the lips of the cups, most dont know they have a problem till they have a big one..

not all rigs have issues, just many of them depending on ball weight and what sort of load stabiliser etc they may be running...

Killer

11th December 2007, 03:48 PM

engineer you say....putting a flat washer under a spring washer defeats the purpose of the spring washer...

I would have to agree there Inc. - stops the spring washer gripping onto the part. Maybe thats the difference between engineers and fitters! Engineers aren't always too practical minded.

Cheers, Mick.

BMKal

11th December 2007, 11:43 PM

Thanks for the info Inc. I'm just setting up the Disco to tow a camper trailer that I've been doing up. Went out and bought a new HR tongue today - the original on the Disco is way too low. Was also looking at load leveller as the trailer will weigh about a tonne loaded, and I'm not sure yet how I'll go with the 10% rule - have to find somewhere / something to work out the ball weight.

At present, running a standard ball & coupling, but considering options. Have been talked out of Treg or similar. At least I know of another option NOT to consider.

Cheers ........... BM