Why buy a Diesel?

[BigJon]

Did a 400 k trip on the weekend. Mixed bitumen, dirt touring, dirt tracks and low range work. One of the other vehicles on the trip was a TD5 Discovery auto. He used 60 litres of fuel for the 400 km. My 88 Range Rover 3.5 V8 manual (never rebuilt, about 250 000km on the clock) used....


















60 litres for the 400 km!!:D :D

[Ken]

Ive just gone half a tank in my V8 Disco and 306km on the trip meter thats Damn good in my opinion should get 600 out of this tank :)

[Reads90]

I have found that the V8 can be fine on trips as when you get it to a steady speed then they are fine on Fuel. But when you go past the 140kph then they start to sup it hard. I used to drive to work in my old V8 rangie. was fine at 130kph but go over that, which i used to do home useally 155 Kph then it would use alot more fuel than 130 kph. But still did not stop me doing 155 almost everywhere :) apart from at the end of month (just before pay day:) )

[Camo]

Don't think my rangie would ever do 155kph;)

[BigJon]

Mine neither. 140 kph on a good day:D . I was driving gently for economy, but we were all traveling at the same speeds, at the same time over the same terrain. I was expecting him to get much better economy than me.

[Quiggers]

There's only 3 probs with ripping around at 150 km/h+ on public roads.

1). It's illegal.
2). The donk sucks like there's no tomorrow.
3). If plod reads this thread, you could be in some deep doggie doo........

But a long time ago, I saw big numbers on the speedo at a driver day at Oran Park, in the then new 95 Rossignol V8, went like a rocket! I was amazed!

GQ

[incisor]

He used 60 litres of fuel for the 400 km.
what was he doing towing two v8's?

[loanrangie]

what was he doing towing two v8's?

He was towing bigjohn, and his figures were just the engine idling !

[Reads90]

There's only 3 probs with ripping around at 150 km/h+ on public roads.

1). It's illegal.
2). The donk sucks like there's no tomorrow.
3). If plod reads this thread, you could be in some deep doggie doo........

But a long time ago, I saw big numbers on the speedo at a driver day at Oran Park, in the then new 95 Rossignol V8, went like a rocket! I was amazed!

GQ


Good point but this was in the Uk. Police sort of turn a blind eye up to 145kph
145- 160kph 3 points on your licnces and 30 pound fine(if you get caught)
160 Kph and above lose you lincense and win a bike:D

So most people drive on the motorway at 150kph

My old rangie will do this quite happy and that was a 3.5 carb . My 90 used to drive around at 90 mph (145 kph)

[cartm58]

In my experience in owning diesels they do about 25% better fuel economy than a petrol motor in similar vehicle driven in similar fashion.

I am surprised a new diesel did the same as your v8, something must be wrong with it.

After owning 2 Turbo Diesels 4wd's and 2 petrol 4wds, my experience was whilst Diesels got better fuel economy, it was somewhat negated by the pricing variation between Diesel and Petrol at the pump and the higher maintenance schedule on the Diesel motors.

[incisor]

on my average weekly driving which would be 75-25 on-off road i get/got

97 manual v8 disco i used to get 460-500 klms from 70 litres

95 auto tdi i get 720-760 klms from 70 litres

95 manual tdi i am getting 1132 out of 113 litres

[Reads90]

In my experience in owning diesels they do about 25% better fuel economy than a petrol motor in similar vehicle driven in similar fashion.

I am surprised a new diesel did the same as your v8, something must be wrong with it.

.


:) reminds me off years ago when a chap put a BMW diesel in a range rover. And i asked how it went , and one of his followers / hanger on piped up and shouted that it could beat his 3.9 v8 off the lights
At which point i looked at him and said. Well i surgest you get you Range rover serviced as it should not do that.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yes yes they run on used fish wrappings,,,

until they break

then who's laughing---


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=34318

[incisor]

yawn

v8's have problems too.

stay focused on the discussion at hand old fella! :eek::D:D:D:D

[ak]

In my experience in owning diesels they do about 25% better fuel economy than a petrol motor in similar vehicle driven in similar fashion.

I am surprised a new diesel did the same as your v8, something must be wrong with it.

After owning 2 Turbo Diesels 4wd's and 2 petrol 4wds, my experience was whilst Diesels got better fuel economy, it was somewhat negated by the pricing variation between Diesel and Petrol at the pump and the higher maintenance schedule on the Diesel motors.

This is very true, however if you live in the big smoke and want to drive your Landie every day in stop start traffic doing over 600k a week diesel is the way to go.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

gees,,
the man gets a panel van
and loses 20 years---



:p


and what was the discussion,,
oh yea,,
the equal fuel usage V8 V rattlers on a trip.


bit of a blow there fellas,,,:D:D:D

[EchiDna]

.......One of the other vehicles on the trip was a TD5 Discovery auto. He used 60 litres of fuel for the 400 km. My 88 Range Rover 3.5 V8 manual (never rebuilt, about 250 000km on the clock) used....60 litres for the 400 km!!:D :D


er as a bloke workin for a stealer, surely you told him to get his TD5 in for a service toot sweet?? :D


15l/100km is below average for a TD5 to say the least...
I have managed single digits in my 4BD1 when driving for distance...

maybe his tank already had 25 litres used when you started out? :wasntme:

[BigJon]

We have said that we will plug in the magic box and look at the innards at the next available opportunity. I expected less than brilliant economy given the driving that we were doing. I was very happy indeed with my economy, even happier when I matched his!

We both filled prior to the trip, then again at the end. Any difference in distance travelled would have been minimal.

Throughout the trip (3 Land Rovers) there were no breakdowns, mishaps, boggings or anything untoward whatsoever.

[dungarover]

yawn

v8's have problems too.

stay focused on the discussion at hand old fella! :eek::D:D:D:D

Yes they do but don't cost you several $$$$'s reparing them. A V8 rebuild on the exxy side is $5K (any more, you're getting ripped off :eek: ).

I'll always stand by what I say, I'm too busy having fun to stuff abouit with fuel economy :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Trav

[Pedro_The_Swift]

you sure you went in Landrovers?:eek:

[isuzurover]

I did 1150km over easter in my 3.9D (ISUZU) County. About 600km was on the highway, pushing it fairly hard (120 on the speedo in 110 zones - got to love landie speedo error), then there was a day of driving in soft sand with tyres at 20psi, and 2 days of driving on dirt tracks in a mix of low and high range.

I averaged 11.1L/100km. :D :p :D

[Bushie]

Just did ~700km over the last few days, fully laden with camping gear + roofrack and 4 adults on board.

Approx 40km of low range 2nd/3rd gear, showers using the twine setup, all for less than a tank of fuel (not much less though).

The same trip in the rangie used to use around 120litres (consistantly returned around 17.5/100)

With all that the wife is currently using the defender as the daily driver across Sydney each day (Heathcote to North Parramatta) and the diesel is a blessing.



Martyn

[ivery819]

I've had direct comparison of three Range Rovers over an extended period used for my everyday activities which are a mixture of off road and country driving.
My RRC 3.5 v8 averaged about 16 to 17 l/100km.
My P38a 4.6 V8 averages about 12 to 13l/100km and
Wait for it..............
My RRS tdV6 2.7 averages about 8 to 9 l/100km and easily outperforms the P38a.
So in 20 years Land Rover have supplied me with a vastly superior performing vehicle that chews about half the fuel.
I am well pleased :D

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I have found that the V8 can be fine on trips as when you get it to a steady speed then they are fine on Fuel. But when you go past the 140kph then they start to sup it hard. I used to drive to work in my old V8 rangie. was fine at 130kph but go over that, which i used to do home useally 155 Kph then it would use alot more fuel than 130 kph. But still did not stop me doing 155 almost everywhere :) apart from at the end of month (just before pay day:) )

Yep. I bet you if you put a bit roof rack on, or the going got heavy and slow your 15l/100 would turn to 20/25 whereas my 11/100 would turn to 13/15 :)

[BigJon]

you sure you went in Landrovers?:eek:


Here they are.

Range Rover at the top, where it belongs :D .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us)

[Utemad]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us)

Ahhhhhh the truth is finally told. The Td5 had a loaded roof rack while your RR didn't :o

What fuel usage did the D1 have with its roof rack and what motor/box does it have?

[Reads90]

my 90 is a 300 Tdi and it did on average about 10-11L per 100ks on our trip round Aus

BUT
i have just bought a 3.9 V8 Disco
I have already worked out that when we pop over to Norseman (xmas) it will cost us $800 more in fuel for the disco than a 300 Tdi Disco. (and that is over estimating). But the car is used as the wifes car and famly car which (if lucky ) does at most 100-200 ks a month . so fulel is not too much to worry about

Big BUT
The disco V8 cost us $2750. where as a 300 Tdi one's go for more like $7000 (if not more). That is a differance of $4250 Alot of fuel, and makes the $800 extra not seem too much:)

[Utemad]

Range Rover at the top, where it belongs :D .

But one Disco is leading the way while another is the sweeper :p:D

[camel_landy]

Then there's the ultimage combo... The TDV8. :cool:

Out in RaRo TDV8 last week, we were returning approx 28/29MPG in a mix of motorway, country roads & off-road driving. :D :D

M

[BigJon]

Td5 Disco had one swag on the roof, hardly loaded. I would think my bullbar top mounted bull lights would give about the same wind resistance. Not to mention my suspension and body lift.

Given our average speeds for the trip, I don't think windage had a lot to do with the economy. Only 50 kms was at 110 kph. All the rest was at speeds varying from 90 kph down to low 1st crawl.

The Discovery 1 belongs to the Boss. It is 300 Tdi Manual with about 147 000km on the odometer. Partially filled long range tanks didn't let us guage fuel useage accurately, but he reckons it was considerably less than either the D2 or the Rangie.

It was his first trip with the roof top tent. It is a Featherlite one from Opposite Lock, only weighs about 35 kg.

[mcrover]

If I get worse than 13L/100km when pushing the disco with the rack and tent on and loaded with nessesities and Me the wife and kids then I start looking for a fuel leak.

It sat on 135kmh in NT (before speed limits) and returned 13L/100km but no rack.

I dont speed (anymore to many tickets) and I always measure city and country miles as with a 135lt tank I rarely need to fill up again after a trip.

I will have to start taking more notice again as Ive just put the bigger tyres on and I want to know If it will improove or raise or not change the economy.

As for repairs of a Diesel over a V8, it may cost $5000 to rebuild a V8 but how many sets of plugs and leads have you put in over 500000km's that would be an acceptable life out of a well looked after diesel if not more.

How many fuel dramas (carb or injection) and then add the crappy economy and the Diesel always comes out infront even with the higher price tag for everything as you dont have to buy the stuff as many times in a set period.

Please dont get me wrong, I like the rangie/disco V8's and have considered buying a few of them but I think saying that they are supperior to a Diesel for maintenence/rebuild costs is just rubbish as long as it's a good one to start with.

[p38arover]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3599/jonspics389zg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I want to see close-ups of the RR bonnet mascot! ;)

Ron

[Ace]

I get 10L/100km out of nearly every tank, worst is normally no less than 11L/100km.

During the hols we towed my grandparents caravan to wagga over a mixture of really steep hills to long flat straights and on the way returned 13L/100km, but on the way home we only got 16L/100km, however i filled up at woolies petrol in Wagga as opposed to the a BP where i normally prefer to fill up, and i did notice a loss in power on the way home so my guess is the fuel wasnt as good as we should have used less on the way home cause most of it was down all the big hills we went up on the way. Matt

[Blknight.aus]

Im going to bite at the fuel economy vs the rebuild cost biscut...


A V8 will run a lot longer in a lot poorer condition than a diesel but ignoiring that..

lets pretend that I get both engines to 500,000 km and decide to rebuild them replacing everything the diesel in parts alone once upon a time would cost the same as the v8 assuming I managed to salvage the injector bodies (most likely) and the fuel pumps primary internal workings (also likely). pretty simple, disel parts cost more but you only needed half as many (4 pots vs 8,)

Then the equation swung away from the v8s as you not only had to deal with the same parts, now you had injectors and electronics yes they were more effecient but the cost of the rebuild has just jumped...

Now all that technology has arrived at the diesels doorstep and gone beyond it The price for my td5 injectors $1500 odd, Each... $7.5k before I even get the head off..... and petrol parts are cheaper than they were...

The money goes to the tolerances and the tech... the leaders of the technology will always have more cost involved than those that follow.. And most new technologies are being developed on diesel engines (ignoring hydrogen and electric technologies for now) and then filter down to petrols...

Constant combustion pressure is a good example it came out on the first electronic diesels and is now on most electronic diesels and its just starting to come into some petrols...

when you make the statement it costs less or more to run a diesel than a v8 be careful to compare apples to apples...

I can completely rebuild a 2.25 diesel for less than you can change the plugs filters and oil on some new cars and its still more effecient if driven nicely... So I win on both fronts

I can completely rebuild a carbed 3.5 v8 for less than I can change 2 injectors on a td5. but its not as fuel effecient... but the cost of the rebuild off sets that very nicely.

but thats just my thoughts.

[mcrover]

Spot on Dave.

[LandyAndy]

Well we are buying a 86 Rangie with a 4.6!!!!
I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET MY SHARE OF PETROL WHILE ITS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Andrew

[mcrover]

Well we are buying a 86 Rangie with a 4.6!!!!
I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET MY SHARE OF PETROL WHILE ITS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Andrew

You will...:D

[EchiDna]

Well we are buying a 86 Rangie with a 4.6!!!!
I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET MY SHARE OF PETROL WHILE ITS STILL AVAILABLE!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Andrew

Ah but long after your petrol is gone, i'll be pottering about on biodeisel i can make at home in my 4BD1 :)

[Ken]

Geez guys at the end of the day it doesnt matter if your in a V8 or a Diesel the engine that powers the Vehicle your driving is in a LAND ROVER :angel:

[Utemad]

Ah but long after your petrol is gone, i'll be pottering about on biodeisel i can make at home in my 4BD1 :)

If petrol is gone then wouldn't oil in general be gone or at least rationed to more important things than frying chips?

[Blknight.aus]

not a problem, add detergents a little sulpher some stabiliser and your chip oil also becomes engine oil..

also

never heard of synthetic oil?

[EchiDna]

If petrol is gone then wouldn't oil in general be gone or at least rationed to more important things than frying chips?


that's the beauty of bio deisel...

you can make it from old chip fat :)

or grow your own canola oil, olive oil....

[Utemad]

that's the beauty of bio deisel...

you can make it from old chip fat :)

or grow your own canola oil, olive oil....

Who'd have time for that?

I for one would be too busy driving and modifying my solar powered hover Landy ;)

[abaddonxi]

Well, you know bio diesel is the step between fossil fuels and Mr Fusion.

Don't know how it is going to fit under the blister on the 2007 Defender, though.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/04/112.jpg

Cheers
Simon

[Ken]

If it comes to that ill go the steam power :D :D

[terrym]

Hi,
Yea, you can run your biodesiel and smell like a chip shop :-), my V8 will happly cruise past running on ethanol.

Of course in reality neither of our cars will be moving after the oil runs out as there is simply no way to grow enough biomass to match demand for either fuel

Terry

[Ace]

If it comes to that ill go the steam power :D :D

yeah but you need coal for that. :D Or your own forrest. :D

[incisor]

the old stanley steamer could go from brisbane to southport on 2 newspapers i once read, (or maybe dreamt) :P

what sort of speed did they do anyone know ?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I have vague thoughts it was pretty fast(for a diesel) about 127,,,,



MPH!:eek:

[LeighW]

http://www.stumpranchonline.com/skagitjournal/National/Gen/StanleySteamer-Jordan.html lists the speed as 197 mph but it became airborne at 200 mph and the bits are now on display at a museum.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

This is a 1914 "Coffin Nosed" model



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/04/109.jpg

[incisor]

the one i rode in when i was a nipper was more buggy shaped than that.

used to be a big car display and day out at chelmer in brisbane by the river and they had some of them and the de-dion 's and other very early german, american and pommie stuff...

my uncle was a car nut and really loaded $ wise and did up the really old stuff.....

[mcrover]

I dont see why you couldnt grow enough Bio mass to produce Bio or ethonol and lube oils if people stopped eating so much fish and chips and KFC there would be a glut on the market.

There are lower grade crops in soy and canola that grow more rapidly but doesnt have the same quality oil which would be fine for fuel but not for consumption more because of taste than anything else, same with the more productive varieties of canola that has been trialed in SA.

As far as steam goes, it was always a pipe dream in OZ as there isnt enough water for humans to flush down the dunny so how could we fatham running cars on it.

Best thing would be Hydrogen as water vapour emited from exausts would have to come down as rain eventually but probably would over the sea or something.

My grand father once drove a stanley steamer taxi somewhere in england during WW2, he said it was a terrible old car that was the most unreliable thing he'd driven but thinking back, it would have been the 40's and the steamer was built in 1915 or 16 or something Im guessing so it was vintage then.

It had probably done a million miles or more as well, the pull what ever you can out of the shed during war time theory I spose.

[Bushie]

Hi,
Yea, you can run your biodesiel and smell like a chip shop :-), my V8 will happly cruise past running on ethanol.

Of course in reality neither of our cars will be moving after the oil runs out as there is simply no way to grow enough biomass to match demand for either fuel

Terry


And the dilema for 3rd world countries will be
Do we allocate space for growing crops for fuel (to sell) or food (to feed our citizens)



Martyn

[EchiDna]

And the dilema for 3rd world countries will be
Do we allocate space for growing crops for fuel (to sell) or food (to feed our citizens)



Martyn

no dilema... the heads of most 3rd world countries want cash, not fed and happy subjects.... :wasntme:

[spudboy]

no dilema... the heads of most 3rd world countries want cash, not fed and happy subjects.... :wasntme:

Cynical - but on the money I'm afraid

[RobHay]

I have found that the V8 can be fine on trips as when you get it to a steady speed then they are fine on Fuel. But when you go past the 140kph then they start to sup it hard. I used to drive to work in my old V8 rangie. was fine at 130kph but go over that, which i used to do home useally 155 Kph then it would use alot more fuel than 130 kph. But still did not stop me doing 155 almost everywhere :) apart from at the end of month (just before pay day:) )


To complete this ....Please advise exactly which road and approximate times of travel:nazilock:

[stevo68]

Ahhh its so funny and great at the same time that on a landy site the only thing we can really battle over :D is diesel v petrol :p and my Litres per 100kms versus your litres per 100kms :o

Regards

Stevo

Oh and yeah V8..........13.9-14.5L/100kms :)

[Blknight.aus]

Oh and yeah V8..........13.9-14.5L/100kms :)

when its got a td in front pulling and one behind pushing...

[stevo68]

when its got a td in front pulling and one behind pushing... Fraid not, they are actual true figures :D , ahhh the stoush begins :angel:

Regards

Stevo

[jik22]

Good point but this was in the Uk. Police sort of turn a blind eye up to 145kph

So most people drive on the motorway at 150kph


Hmm...think you've been over here too long. :D

Now they've worked out they can make seriously good money from speeders, you're lucky if you get off under the old <10%+3mph guidelines, so even 85mph on a motorway is pushing your luck...my last speeding ticket was for 90 in a 70 limit. Not complaining, but a few years back that would have been considered a ticking off under the right conditions if you were driving sensibly. Did get a smile when I asked if I could have a photo of the speed display as no-one would believe I'd got a Landrover up to 90mph though. :D

[Reads90]

dont know but my brother still goes up and down the M3 night and day at 90mph in a D2 :) and he says he is just keeping up with the traffic. Like i used to do 18 months ago

[jik22]

dont know but my brother still goes up and down the M3 night and day at 90mph in a D2 :) and he says he is just keeping up with the traffic. Like i used to do 18 months ago

Unlike the M25 and A1(M), the M3 doesn't have speed cameras yet, I don't think. Certainly not those bloody nasty SPECS things anyway. :(

Mind you, I can't get used to seeing the police here appear from behind bushes with their hand held laser guns...the amount of people I've seen pulled over is amazing in the 4 months we've been here. Even the wife is worried, and she's not exactly a speeder. :D

[DirtyDawg]

I would never own a petrol again Diesel rocks, no need to worry bout electric, timing , spark plugs , faulty HT leads etc etc, just change the oils and filters and great economyl

As for speed if you want it buy a car that was made for it. I used to have a WRX when they first came out and the only thing that went faster was my license.

Love the Defender and love the view as I sit comfortably on 110-115km hour enjoy our vast country..;)

[CraigE]

You mean that is not Big Jon.:eek:

I have found owning V8RRC TDi Disco and TD5 Fender, when the 8 is pushed hard it gets real thirsty where as the diesels increase only marginally. The Fender returns about 13lp100kms in any condition inc towing, the tdi used to get about 9lp100kms unloaded and 10-11 loaded up with a trailer, V8 was more like 15normal and up to 19-20 loaded.

I want to see close-ups of the RR bonnet mascot! ;)

Ron

[justinc]

Well,, when I first got my RR, it was a 4.6 High output Davis performance engine with an autobox. Out of 130litres I would get about 500 to 550k. After I fitted the 4BD1 intercooled and turboed, with the V8's old autobox we would easily get 22mpg. After I broke the 3rd ZF, I fitted an LT95, and my fuel economy has shot upto 27mpg.

The main message here is that in my case, switching to diesel albeit a large but low revving turboed one, has doubled my fuel range. And it has almost as much torque as the 4.6, and definately more torque at less than 2000rpm. Oh, and the engine has just clocked over 460,000km. Oil consumption 1 litre between services, no glow circuit operational and doesen't need it, and at 100kmh you can hear the Cooper ST's over the sound of the engine.

I love my Diesel, but would dearly love the V8's sound to go with it!!!

JC

[vnx205]

Did a 400 k trip on the weekend. Mixed bitumen, dirt touring, dirt tracks and low range work. One of the other vehicles on the trip was a TD5 Discovery auto. He used 60 litres of fuel for the 400 km. My 88 Range Rover 3.5 V8 manual (never rebuilt, about 250 000km on the clock) used....
60 litres for the 400 km!!:D :D
So what you are telling us is that one exceptionally good fuel consumption figure for one petrol V8 is the same as one unusually poor figure for one diesel.
So...?:confused:

[vnx205]

Did a 400 k trip on the weekend. Mixed bitumen, dirt touring, dirt tracks and low range work. One of the other vehicles on the trip was a TD5 Discovery auto. He used 60 litres of fuel for the 400 km. My 88 Range Rover 3.5 V8 manual (never rebuilt, about 250 000km on the clock) used....
60 litres for the 400 km!!:D :D

I’m sure someone has already pointed this out on numerous occasions, but it is so easy to kid yourself about fuel consumption figures.
While I don’t want to get into an argument about how careful you were or whether your figures are accurate, consider how simple things like the following example can have a big effect.
TD5 fills up before the trip, but stops filling when the pump clicks off the first time, so another 5 litres could have been squeezed in. 400 km later at the end of the trip TD5 fills up again and this time the vehicle is leaning ever so slightly away from the filler and the nozzle is allowed to click off three or four times, so the tank is filled right to the brim. It took 60 litres, even though only 55 were used on the trip, so the actual fuel consumption is really 13.75 litres/100km (not 15).
V8 fills up before the trip and fills right to the top of the neck. At the end of the trip, the filling stops at the first click of the nozzle so another 5 litres could easily have been squeezed in. It took 60 litres, but actually 65 were used on the trip, so consumption is really 16.25 litres/100km (not 15).

So much for hypothetical examples, but the following one is real.
This morning I filled the 300 Tdi Defender with 760km on the speedo since the last fill. The pump clicked off and froth dribbled out the filler neck at about 66 litres.
I could have stopped there and claimed 760 km on 66 litres or 8.7 litres/100km.:D
However I kept filling and the tank was definitely full to the top of the filler neck at 71 litres, so I was down to 9.3 litres/100km.:)
When I corrected for the 6% error that I know the odometer has (with fairly worn 235/85/16 Kumhos), the 760 km became 714 km and the figure dropped to 9.9 litres/100km.:( Still a respectable figure, but not quite as good as my original 8.7.
One further delusion I could have been under was that I had achieved this sitting on 100 kmh most of the time with some at 110, but the truth is my speedo reads 110 when I am sitting on exactly 100.
I could kid myself and claim 8.7 litres/100km at 100-110, but the real figure for that fill was 9.9 litres/100km at 90-100.
I don’t suppose anyone cares, but my total consumption for the 28,000km (corrected for 6% error) I have done since I bought the vehicle 8 months ago works out at 10.5 litres/100km with a Trayon camper on the back for almost exactly half that distance.

[BigJon]

Ah, another diesel advocate trying to justify fuel consumption figures! :p

We didn't both fill up at exactly the same place with recently checked pumps accurately measuring fuel useage for a Guiness Book of Records consumption attempt. But we did use roughly the same amount of fuel for almost exactly the same driving, and I thought that was an interesting comparison.

Your arguments for the diesel potentially having used less fuel also works the other way. Maybe the TD5 really used 16.6 litres per hundred and I really used 13.5 litres per hundred.

Who knows, and frankly who really cares!!? I don't for one:D .

[vnx205]

Ah, another diesel advocate trying to justify fuel consumption figures! :p

We didn't both fill up at exactly the same place with recently checked pumps accurately measuring fuel useage for a Guiness Book of Records consumption attempt. But we did use roughly the same amount of fuel for almost exactly the same driving, and I thought that was an interesting comparison.

Your arguments for the diesel potentially having used less fuel also works the other way. Maybe the TD5 really used 16.6 litres per hundred and I really used 13.5 litres per hundred.

Who knows, and frankly who really cares!!? I don't for one:D .

Fair enough.
As I said, I wasn't interested in questioning the accuracy of your figures. I was just trying to use your post as an excuse to offer some general observations about how easily a few small discrepancies can combine to produce significant errors. In fact I thought my own experience of 9.9 litres/100km looking like 8.7 was a better illustration of the problem.
However, even with significant amounts of low range work I have never seen worse than about 13 litres/100km with my 300 Tdi.
Seriously though, I guess there are certain conditions where a small turbo diesel is going to be exceptionally thirsty. If that's the case I am prepared to find out what they are. It might help me avoid an embarassing or dangerous shortage of fuel at some time in the future.
Was there anything unusual about the conditions or any situations in which the diesel was obviously working particularly hard?
The sort of thing I was thinking of was the experience I had on Lake Callabonna about 30 yrs ago. I was on Hodaka 100 and my friend was on a Yamaha 175. On the soft surface, the Hodaka couldn't get enough speed to hold 2nd gear while the Yamaha could. So while the Hodaka worked hard in 1st gear to plough through the soft surface, the Yamaha was doing a lot less work in 2nd.

[djam1]

Saying anything against a diesel probably attracts more attention than if you attacked the Pope/Queen or some other sacred cow of modern society. lol

[rangieman]

Oh yeah the mighty hodaka what a great bike they were for their time
my da has about 30 of them in different forms and sizes:D

[vnx205]

30 Hodakas. That's real dedication. I thought the gearbox was a clever arrangement, as long as it didn't get out of adjustment.
In 1974 I had a Maico 125 with a very similar 6 speed gearbox except that it just used metal pegs to lock the gear to the shaft instead of the balls the Hodaka used.

[mcrover]

Eady solution, fit an hour meter.

Running time of a diesel over petrol per litre of fuel used would be the best indicator.

All my machines have them and Im trying to get the boys to write down the hrs on the fuel sheet when they fill up after they use them but 1 bloke will and the next forgets so I havnt had a chance to calculate it yet to know what is reasonable.

[Blknight.aus]

I guess there are certain conditions where a small turbo diesel is going to be exceptionally thirsty. If that's the case I am prepared to find out what they are.

running full boost, at mid RPMS against a full load, in low range, your sand riding example is a good one, heavy towing or driving into a headwind is another.

and yes I have been in a headwind with a van on that had me resorting to low range, that was in a series tho...

[97discotdi]

Did the Simpson desert last year 300tdi used 80 litres petrol prado used 140 litres not a problem untill you pay $2.50 a litre at Mt Dare OOCH that hurts

[DiscoDave]

I've found that tyres can make a huge difference too. With the standard Michelins on my Disco usually returned around 760Kms for a tank full, with the Simex MTs on I have to watch the guage like a hawk after 600Kms. :eek:

[97discotdi]

Oh yeah the mighty hodaka what a great bike they were for their time
my da has about 30 of them in different forms and sizes:D
I allways wanted a Hodaka Super Rat all I could afford was a Yamy 100 christ that was a long time ago oh to be 13 again

[97discotdi]

To overcome the argument the laws of thermodynamics show the diesel cycle is at worst approx 45% efficient modern diesels 55%(i.e converting fuel heat into work) the otto or petrol cycle is at best 35% efficient. Why are petrol engines more powerfull (kw) simply because petrol is more explosive. The main factor is the compression ratio the diesel with its high compression changes a lot more of the combustion heat into power/work. This can be mainly achieved because diesel has a high cetain index which is the resistance to igniting. Whereas petrol has a low combustion point therefore petrol engines have to use a low compression ratio to avoid pre ignition or sophisticated exhaust injection to create an inert atmosphere. The modern diesels are improving all the time because the fuel injection is improving and causing a finer droplet of diesel which burns quicker therefore gives more complete burning(thats why all the old diesels blew tons of black smoke, not enough residence time in the combustion chamber to burn the fuel). The new diesels are burning 90% of the fuel which when combined with turbo charging / intercooling is why the RR 3.6lt V8 diesel is 200Kw/640NM and will probably still give 27mpg. LeMans 24hr race this year was 1-2 Audi diesel 12cyl. Time to get over it and move on.:D

[Mark86]

Well Big Jon you got more bites than a white pointer on this topic. :D :D

[abaddonxi]

Did somebody say lightbulbs?

:D:D

Cheers
Simon

[mcrover]

I think they did...:D

[PhilipA]

Aggh, I will probably regret this.
I read an article recently by a Fiat automotive design engineer who stated that with recent petrol engine developments such as compound turbocharging, diirect injection, a variable camshaft timing, Combined stiocio metris/lean burn that it is unlikely that diesel engines would increase market share much more
AS THEY WERE SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO PRODUCE.

His argument continued that diesel would hold sway only perhaps in specialised applications such as 4WD as this market could bear the large extra costs involved.
You are all comparing a 40 year old design V8 with a 10 year old design diesel TD 5 or 4-5 year old TDV6.
The new VW compound supercharged / turbo 1.4 petrol has almost diesel economy but far more power than a comparable diesel.

In meeting new pollution targets, diesels are having to adopt more and more sophisticated ( read expensive ) controls. I think you have to have your new Merc topped up with Urea every now and then. Maybe you can pee in the tank.

I was looking at the latest Jeep prices recently and the diesel is $4000 more than the petrol. You can buy a lot of petrol for that considering the difference in fuel economy of the 3.7petrol and the 2.8 diesel is not all that much. Ask yourself why the Merc diesel is not offered in the Cherokee. I will bet it costs just too much to be saleable.
I believe that cost is also the reson that the Jap engines are nowhere near as powerful etc as European . The Japs know what sells, and at what achievable price.
While most of the research up until now has been on improving diesel, because of European government pressure, I believe over the next few years you will see great strides in petrol engines.
And maybe you will not have to pay $1000+ for a new injector for the petrol engine, or buy a new head every time you blow a head gasket.
Regards Philip A

[mcrover]

Im sorry Phillip but I was comparing apples for apples as I was comparing my 300TDI to the rover V8 of any year.

Yes it doenst have quite as much power but thats not what a Land Rover is all about for most people who own them, most people just want to get there and nothing gets there more often than a diesel.

You are trying to say that a Fiat (who cant build a good car or tractor ever) engineer said this, good on him but it will be more expensive because of more technology and if fiat build it it will be unreliable.

As far as Jeep goes, IT's JEEP, they mark up everything and then charge you your first born for a service but there reason would be more likely that the big fat yanks that buy these Cherries new dont want to put stinky diesel in and have enough money to not care how much fuel costs.

Everything has it's place and Diesel technology has just started and will get even better and as far as poluting, a healthy diesel engine as much less poluting than a petrol engine and with EGR developments they are just changing from one gas to another, Carbonmonoxide to Nitrogen oxide.

Why not just have a good diesel and LPG fumigate it to lower the NoX emissions increase power and economy but lose load area.

Petrol is old technology and will eventually be pushed aside for Diesel/electric and straight electric vehicals in the future thats the way most manufacturers are heading including VW/Audi, Daimler/Crysler, BMW, Ford, Hyundai (Kioti), GM (to some extent) but some engineer from Fiat thinks differently. How much market share does Fiat have again, I didnt even know they were still going after the Bambino.

[EchiDna]

diesel cars in EU have more than 30% market share... so Australia has a long way to go before the market is 'saturated' with diesel cars. Not to mention Australia has lower grade diesel compared to much of the world...

[Mark86]

as a newcomer to this forum i didn't know there was such a big rift in diesel vs petrol owners which is a shame hopefully it is in good spirit:D :D
back to the orginal topic about fuel consumtion if the diesels in the post are not significantly bettering the v8 there something seriously wrong. As fars as diesel/v8 debate goes dam it if you like drive it i says.:D :D

Mark

[DiscoTDI]

If the TDV6 was only 4k more expensive than the Petrol, I would have got it. But its 20k different in price, I dont do a million kilometres a year so I dont see a benifit in having it.

Petrols are more fun to drive too:p

[incisor]

as a newcomer to this forum i didn't know there was such a big rift in diesel vs petrol owners which is a shame hopefully it is in good spirit:D :D
a very tender aulro discussion in fact....

i just dont understand why all the v8 guys get so dam insanely jealous ...

:eek::D:wasntme:

[Mark86]

a very tender aulro discussion in fact....

i just dont understand why all the v8 guys get so dam insanely jealous ...

:eek::D:wasntme:

dam it you have made me bite -- insanely jealous about the power and sound of the mighty rover v8 you mean.:D :D :D

[mcrover]

All my spirits are good and I love the sound of a good Rover V8 but thats where it ends lol :D

[Blknight.aus]

you think the v8s vs diesels causes a stir (are we forgetting v8 diesels)


try autos vs manuals....

[Mark86]

of course 3.6 200kw 640nm twin turbo v8 diesel now were talking.
Mark:) :)

[vnx205]

All my spirits are good and I love the sound of a good Rover V8 but thats where it ends lol :D
I love the sound of a V8 too, just as long as someone else is driving it and paying the fuel bills.
:p

[mcrover]

Where are you 6.5 Rangie?

I love the sound of the hoon across the road 'P' plater of course roar off in his SS commodore only for it to come back on a tow truck with a canary nearly monthly but it sounds great.

As far as V8 diesels go, I love them too but as long as I dont have to put my money in the tank.

[victa125]

Longer maintainence schedules. At wot can only use so mutch fuel. wot a brisk 112 hp we had.v petrol Add compression check fuel .ron talk to Ivan get a cam get some valve springs get some accelerator pumping devices keep air cleaner big 220 hp @4200 16l/100 km 85hp @2300 7l/100 km premium fuel avoids cracked pistons diesel @$1.37/l plus If i had A turbo nissan i would be trying to burn that smoke 87 octane is not for economy I want my 98 (diesel should not start below 125)

[victa125]

Gas research Spend some money on some iridium plugs .Pistons melted. plugs were fine.

[HangOver]

I dunno why it's even debated, go for the V8 and gas it, best of both worlds.

Go gas and never look back !

I more or less halfed my fuel costs, OK so I'm not talking landys here but well worth the swap.

[Blknight.aus]

lets see you refill that in the middle of the canning stock route.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

First you open the fuel container------
:angel:

[p38arover]

First you open the fuel container------
:angel:

...... and the LPG goes everywhere.

Ron

[Pedro_The_Swift]

hmm, so youre clever enough to make enough money to afford to put LPG on the car,,


but not clever enough to work out distance divided by economy??????
:confused:

[HangOver]

lets see you refill that in the middle of the canning stock route.
LOL yer I suppose but it does give you a reserve tank on top of you tank plus fuel cans.
Actually I did read somewhere, (cant remember where) that it's possible to refill using LPG bottles, dunno if that's just BS or not though?




hmm, so youre clever enough to make enough money to afford to put LPG on the car,,


but not clever enough to work out distance divided by economy??????
:confused:

Ahhhhh I thought you might mention something like that so here it is:
Then: 500kms $70 a tank
this was about a year ago so I suppose ULP has gone up? :D so for me about $14 a day

Now: min600k-max700ks say 650 average, at most $55 to fill, (on a bad day)
about $7.85 a day

I know it's not exactly half (I did say more or less) but it's pretty damn good either way and with a $3000 rebate on fitting LPG it looks better than ever.

[tombraider]

Hi,
Yea, you can run your biodesiel and smell like a chip shop :-), my V8 will happly cruise past running on ethanol.

Of course in reality neither of our cars will be moving after the oil runs out as there is simply no way to grow enough biomass to match demand for either fuel

Terry

No it wont!

Rover V8s and anything over E10 = Disaster ;)

[tombraider]

Longer maintainence schedules. At wot can only use so mutch fuel. wot a brisk 112 hp we had.v petrol Add compression check fuel .ron talk to Ivan get a cam get some valve springs get some accelerator pumping devices keep air cleaner big 220 hp @4200 16l/100 km 85hp @2300 7l/100 km premium fuel avoids cracked pistons diesel @$1.37/l plus If i had A turbo nissan i would be trying to burn that smoke 87 octane is not for economy I want my 98 (diesel should not start below 125)


WHAT???? :eek:

[tombraider]

Hehehe work is 3.2kms away...

My "work" vehicle uses 4.5l/100kms :cool:

[Christian Sauvage]

Why buy diesel?

Cause they are way better!!!

[ak]

lets see you refill that in the middle of the canning stock route.


:D:D:D

Yep very true.

[Slunnie]

If only there was a way to connect the BBQ into the LPG tank.... then nobody would be laughing! :no2:

[Rayngie]

"Longer maintainence schedules. At wot can only use so mutch fuel. wot a brisk 112 hp we had.v petrol Add compression check fuel .ron talk to Ivan get a cam get some valve springs get some accelerator pumping devices keep air cleaner big 220 hp @4200 16l/100 km 85hp @2300 7l/100 km premium fuel avoids cracked pistons diesel @$1.37/l plus If i had A turbo nissan i would be trying to burn that smoke 87 octane is not for economy I want my 98 (diesel should not start below 125)"

o.k..I'm keeping up with most of this thread but WTF is this all about????

this is like one of those weird spam e-mails i get peddling Viagra, they seem to just pick random english words and put them in a paragraph and hope for the best...

[awabbit6]

"Longer maintainence schedules. At wot can only use so mutch fuel. wot a brisk 112 hp we had.v petrol Add compression check fuel .ron talk to Ivan get a cam get some valve springs get some accelerator pumping devices keep air cleaner big 220 hp @4200 16l/100 km 85hp @2300 7l/100 km premium fuel avoids cracked pistons diesel @$1.37/l plus If i had A turbo nissan i would be trying to burn that smoke 87 octane is not for economy I want my 98 (diesel should not start below 125)"

o.k..I'm keeping up with most of this thread but WTF is this all about????

this is like one of those weird spam e-mails i get peddling Viagra, they seem to just pick random english words and put them in a paragraph and hope for the best...


I'm pleased someone else said it. I thought it was just me who could make no sense of this!

[Dunnie]

I work with boats as a part of my job. As an example of petrol versus diesel, our 8M petrol driven Shark Cat uses 75L/ Hr at 20knots; our 17.1M aluminium WA Cray Boat, 750Kw twin turbo V8, uses 50L/ Hr diesel at 20 knots.