Tyres cheap vs nasty

[abaddonxi]

Looking at the tyre threads over the last couple of weeks I started to wonder.

Big name tyres come in at about $300 per corner, give or take ten bucks.

Cheap tyres come in at about half that on a good day.

So, I'm guessing that the cheap tyres aren't going to last as long but surely there is an interesting argument for getting one set now, and buying another set about half as soon as you would if you were buying expensive tyres.

If you were buying mud tyres, I would assume that you're taking them off road a fair bit and so you're more likely to destroy a tyre through accident rather than age/wear, and so cheapies would be at an advantage too.

So, the question is: Are you better off buying one set of expensive tyres and hoping they'll last five years or two sets of cheapies over the same time?

BTW I'm not planning buying new tyres any time soon.

Cheers
Simon

[Ken]

Fleabay is a good option for good brand second hand tyres

[Michael2]

My last set of "cheapies" - Kumho's, lasted over 100,000km on the Range Rover ($140ea at the time). They probably had another 4-6 months, but one got a bubble, so I replaced the lot, this time with Sumitomos (about $150ea).

[Ken]

where they mud tyres or A/Ts ?

[McDisco]

Yeah I would be interested in what people have to say. My personal opinion is dont skimp on offroad tyres...ever. Not if you need to rely on them.

But on road tyres I think can be a different issue. I run BFG muddies on the disco and am looking for a decent set of cheapy road tyres for around town...was thinking of kumho, toyo, hankook or sumitomo...something like that.

Angus

[LandyAndy]

Kuhmos are well known for developing bubbles in country ks,perhaps they dont handle heat build up too well!!
Andrew

[Ken]

Im about to buy mud tyres and its either Goodyear or Coopers I will probably choose the Goodyears because of the Warranty you can get $16 per tyre is cheap peice of mind

[Ace]

I ended up buying retread muddies for the disco, for two reasons

1) they only get used on weekends for off road trips so i didnt see the point in spending $1200 plus on 4 tyres when 90% of the time they will be sitting on the floor in the shed.

2) As mentioned the likely hood of destruction as opposed to wearing out is a high possibility and i know i would rather replace my $100 retread as opposed to a $300 good one.

The verdict, money well spent, they are identical to BFG muddies, and are on different carcasses one or two are khumo not sure what the rest are, but they go everywhere the same treaded BFG goes and i got a set for $100 more than the other person paid for one tyre. For everyday driving i wouldnt use a retread but i would have looked at the cheaper tyres. Matt

[Quiggers]

Hi Simon,

I cant comment on the tyres on mine as they were new when i got the disco, 4 years ago....(Bridgestone Desert Dueler M+S 205/16, 60,000ks and another 15,000 to go)

However, I can make a comment on a 'cheapie'...

I met an old fella with a white diesel disco a while ago and he runs Toyos, which are maybe a 225 and slightly low profile, maybe a 65...

Got them for about $180 ea. about 2 years ago and loves 'em.... I often see him on our beaches and hehas no apparent probs. and they not wearing....

but... Toyos... I put a set of their 'widies' on the X1/9 and after a few years, they went hard, real hard.... not good on a wet road. would've made a great circuit racing tyre on a hot day....

GQ

[97discotdi]

I have tried a few different tyres on the disco's since 1994. The original Michellin are brilliant on the road 100,000k's but chop out on outback gravel/rock in 15,000k's. Bridgestone A/T great all round tyre but bloody expensive. Toyo ok on road but get off the black top, carry a repair kit. Kuhmo good all round tyre reasonable milage and can handle off road without too much damage, great value for money for the outback tourer. I am going to try Maxxis next 8ply 215/85 (lpg injection on 300tdi) to try and reduce puncture repairs on the Canning. Will let you know how they go.

[Ace]

Hi Simon,

I cant comment on the tyres on mine as they were new when i got the disco, 4 years ago....(Bridgestone Desert Dueler M+S 205/16, 60,000ks and another 15,000 to go)

GQ

I had Bridgestone Dueler something or others on mine when i bought it in 04, they were about $150, they said on the side they were rated for Mud and Snow, they were to narrow, were reasonalble off road for what they were, but the side walls were as weak as ****, in the end i staked one and bought the Mickey Thompson MTX's, love em. Matt

[953]

I ended up buying retread muddies for the disco, for two reasons

1) they only get used on weekends for off road trips so i didnt see the point in spending $1200 plus on 4 tyres when 90% of the time they will be sitting on the floor in the shed.

2) As mentioned the likely hood of destruction as opposed to wearing out is a high possibility and i know i would rather replace my $100 retread as opposed to a $300 good one.

The verdict, money well spent, they are identical to BFG muddies, and are on different carcasses one or two are khumo not sure what the rest are, but they go everywhere the same treaded BFG goes and i got a set for $100 more than the other person paid for one tyre. For everyday driving i wouldnt use a retread but i would have looked at the cheaper tyres. Matt
I did the same & blew 1 out at 100 kph,:o luckily it was a back 1 or I probably wouldnt be writing this. U still have 2 get 2 where you`re wheeling. I dont think I`ll be bying any more of those!
Just my experience.
Cheers Dean.

[beav]

im in the industry and these days it does not may any differance weather you buy a cheap tyre or a dear tyre i went from 3 sets of tyres now i just run a set of 255/85 bfg muddies and i find they are the best all rounder

regards josh
ex 82 rangie
97 300tdi 110

[Quiggers]

Amazingly, the four skinny (205) Bridgestone DD M+S on this Disco have been excellent, I have no complaints. (unlike the Michies on my previous 1995 Rossignol Disco, two of which fell off the rims...)

but, in a year from now, the tyre issue will be in my mind...time for a new D3:D

[HangOver]

tyres, tyres, tyres; a never ending thread of opinions ;)

here's mine.

Tried:
BF Goodrich MT's : utter rubbish, (now only use as spares)
Hancook AT's very durable, pretty good.
Nexen MT's, (el'cheapo non-remould) $150 ea and good for the price

All up if it's a weekender or you want a spare set just for weekends and cash is tight go the cheapo's

buy used and you'll never know why they are being sold until it's too late.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I have tried a few different tyres on the disco's since 1994. The original Michellin are brilliant on the road 100,000k's but chop out on outback gravel/rock in 15,000k's. Bridgestone A/T great all round tyre but bloody expensive. Toyo ok on road but get off the black top, carry a repair kit. Kuhmo good all round tyre reasonable milage and can handle off road without too much damage, great value for money for the outback tourer. I am going to try Maxxis next 8ply 215/85 (lpg injection on 300tdi) to try and reduce puncture repairs on the Canning. Will let you know how they go.

When are you doing the Canning?

A friend of mine believes you should just buy the cheap ones, because where he goes they get so much damage from steaking that you are probably going to have to replace them anyway because it's the safest thing to do. I fear this will be the end of the grabbers this upcoming trip but we'll see how we go.

[Ace]

I did the same & blew 1 out at 100 kph,:o luckily it was a back 1 or I probably wouldnt be writing this. U still have 2 get 2 where you`re wheeling. I dont think I`ll be bying any more of those!
Just my experience.
Cheers Dean.

I check them regularly for damage, i wont keep them as long as i would a set of proper tyres though.

[Lucas]

I just replaced the Michelin X 4x4 that were on the Fender when I bought it, they had done over 120k.

SWMBO bought 4 cheap tyres for her Liberty at $40 a corner fitted (China), they are wearing really fast and are bloody dangerous in the wet, I would of rather spent the $100 up front.

[cartm58]

can l politely point out the flaw in your question, the price someone sells a trye at has nothing to do with how good it is for the purpose you intend to put it to. Tyres like anything else are sold with variety of pricing considerations, brand name, advertising, market share etc.

Question is for your budget the dollars you are prepared to spend what is the best quality trye you can buy.

quality will mean different things to different people

suitability for the task of 4wding
highway noise
longevity
anti puncture resistence
grip on different types of surfaces

[George130]

I ended up buying retread muddies for the disco, for two reasons

1) they only get used on weekends for off road trips so i didnt see the point in spending $1200 plus on 4 tyres when 90% of the time they will be sitting on the floor in the shed.

2) As mentioned the likely hood of destruction as opposed to wearing out is a high possibility and i know i would rather replace my $100 retread as opposed to a $300 good one.

The verdict, money well spent, they are identical to BFG muddies, and are on different carcasses one or two are khumo not sure what the rest are, but they go everywhere the same treaded BFG goes and i got a set for $100 more than the other person paid for one tyre. For everyday driving i wouldnt use a retread but i would have looked at the cheaper tyres. Matt
Ace yours are remolds not retreads. A remold covers the sidewall as well and is a lot stronger than a retread. They are the motorways?

[PeterM]

Got the Hankook muddies at $180 a corner fitted. A good mud tyre and pretty capable so far. Planning to change them when they wear out for some 35s as play rubber.

[mcrover]

im in the industry and these days it does not may any differance weather you buy a cheap tyre or a dear tyre i went from 3 sets of tyres now i just run a set of 255/85 bfg muddies and i find they are the best all rounder

regards josh
ex 82 rangie
97 300tdi 110

If your in the industry and there is no difference then why did you buy one of the most expensive muddies before you go to Simex swampers.

IMO You buy what you need, if your only going to drive on the road and not loading it up too much then stick to road tyres (michies etc) if you want to do touring then BFG AT's are the go and only a few variants of the cheaper variety will perform as well but all have their compromises, if you play in Mud every now, not too far from home and then and your happy do sit on no more than 80kmh to be safe on the road then recaps will do the job and if you have to travel to get to mud then buy the cheaper muddies (nonrecap) as your second set. If you play off road most of the time and need a good strong tyre then look at the expensive brands as the side walls are stronger and they carry more weight than the cheaper tyres.

Also there is the ply ratings that you have to take into account, 6 ply is basically a car tyre carcase, 8 ply is Light truck and 10 ply is a heavy duty off road tyre that I recomend for towing, carrying lots of weight or driving in rocky areas or where a puncture is likely.

You will find the cheaper tyres may look the same though the build quality will be more like a car tyre as well as only 6 or 8 ply ratings.

Also speed ratings come into it. Most LT and 6ply off road tyres (not hwy) will ne 'S' rated which I think is top speed of 120kmh, 'H' rated tyres are better which are rated in off road (not hwy) to 200kmh.

This is the speed that the tyre is tested to and has not delaminated during it's life cycle.

There are good cheaper tyres but they are not that much cheaper than the exy ones and you can allways get better deals shopping around or asking the question on here as to where to get the best price.

Good luck to anyone buying tyres as I have just done, there is a lot of choice out there but my advice is to budget over $250 a tyre (AT or MT) if it's on a decent size 4wd unless you can handle the compromises of the cheaper tyres.

[mcrover]

A good quality remold for off road is the Mongrel's, I know 4 people who run them 3 of them for play only but 1 mate has got about 60,000km's out of his and they have hardly worn and he drives it to work every day 100km/h on the freeway.

Im getting some oneday as play tyres only and will probably live in the shed most of the time but I would only trust them as much as I would trust second hand tyres, not very much.

[abaddonxi]

If your in the industry and there is no difference then why did you buy one of the most expensive muddies before you go to Simex swampers.

IMO You buy what you need, if your only going to drive on the road and not loading it up too much then stick to road tyres (michies etc) if you want to do touring then BFG AT's are the go and only a few variants of the cheaper variety will perform as well but all have their compromises, if you play in Mud every now, not too far from home and then and your happy do sit on no more than 80kmh to be safe on the road then recaps will do the job and if you have to travel to get to mud then buy the cheaper muddies (nonrecap) as your second set. If you play off road most of the time and need a good strong tyre then look at the expensive brands as the side walls are stronger and they carry more weight than the cheaper tyres.

Also there is the ply ratings that you have to take into account, 6 ply is basically a car tyre carcase, 8 ply is Light truck and 10 ply is a heavy duty off road tyre that I recomend for towing, carrying lots of weight or driving in rocky areas or where a puncture is likely.

You will find the cheaper tyres may look the same though the build quality will be more like a car tyre as well as only 6 or 8 ply ratings.

Also speed ratings come into it. Most LT and 6ply off road tyres (not hwy) will ne 'S' rated which I think is top speed of 120kmh, 'H' rated tyres are better which are rated in off road (not hwy) to 200kmh.

This is the speed that the tyre is tested to and has not delaminated during it's life cycle.

There are good cheaper tyres but they are not that much cheaper than the exy ones and you can allways get better deals shopping around or asking the question on here as to where to get the best price.

Good luck to anyone buying tyres as I have just done, there is a lot of choice out there but my advice is to budget over $250 a tyre (AT or MT) if it's on a decent size 4wd unless you can handle the compromises of the cheaper tyres.

I'd be very happy if it was as clear-cut as you suggest but these figures look very close to me.

BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/ALT235/85R16 Load rating - 1400 Speed rating - S (1400kgs/180km/h)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


Kumho All Terrain KL78

LT235/85R16 10PR(10 ply rating) 120/116Q(1400kgs/160km/h)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I'd be very happy if it was as clear-cut as you suggest but these figures look very close to me.

Cheers
Simon

[blitz]

It's a hard question!!

I want the most outragous tread for my play tyres and I'm not sure I care if they are retread remade or new. I may even get tractor tyres yet as they are for purely off road. My road / normal tyres are BF AT's which I will never buy again as they are not good on gravel roads - the gravel gets stuck inbetween the thin (factory) cuts in the treads and rips them to pieces

I believe if they are your main tyres always go for quality as I think it is a false economy buying cheap.

FYI my brother just bought a set of Baja Claws and is raving about them

[McDisco]

I think it does depend on your situation and needs though.

I buy "quality" tyres because above all else I want toughness and reliability. I also need a set of tyres that will take me to Toolangi to play in the mud and do a 5000km tour through the Flinders and the Simpson. And I want them to be strong and reliable..so I run BFG muddies. I would also seriously consider getting Goodyear MTRs. I do this because I can afford to though.

But I run a second set of more highway biased tyres for around town. This is where I will likely go for a set of cheapies because I think highway tyres are pretty much the same and the consequences of a flat arent as possible servere (ie stuck in the middle of know where). And I think a lot of the cheaper manufacturers have really made gains in the quality of there road tyres.

Angus

[mcrover]

I'd be very happy if it was as clear-cut as you suggest but these figures look very close to me.

BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/ALT235/85R16 Load rating - 1400 Speed rating - S (1400kgs/180km/h)
http://www.bfgoodrich.com.au/config/images/tire_models/PD_AllTerrain.jpg


Kumho All Terrain KL78

LT235/85R16 10PR(10 ply rating) 120/116Q(1400kgs/160km/h)

http://www.kumho.com.au/images/tyres/individual_shots/KL78.jpg

I'd be very happy if it was as clear-cut as you suggest but these figures look very close to me.

Cheers
Simon

Great comparison, Kumho's are well known for having weak sidewalls and are prone to separating.

If you like them then go for it but it is as straight forward as everything else in life, you get what you pay for and tyres are no exception.

The load and speed rating may be the same or similar but the point is where it was tested and by whome and how consistant quality control is.

All tyre manufacturers try to cut corners to save money where they can and both Cooper and BFG have learnt in recent years how it can bite you back.

The other company's dont care, when My mate rolled his Hilux thanks to a faulty Kumho, the tyre joint sent it back and they wouldnt cover the warrenty as it had been used off road and it was a MT tyre.

I only got 10,000 km's out of some Sumitomo tyres on the rear of my old Triton, I was working for a tyre joint at the time so I sent them back my self with proof of when I bought them and they also said there is no warrenty on tyre that are used off road.

The only off road they did was my 100m long dirt driveway.

On here I have read about people having trouble with both Coopers and BFG but both will replace a tyre or even all 4 if the problem is serious enough or even upgrade you to a tyre more suited to your needs if your exceeding their specs and destroying tyres.

This is what you pay for for the other $100 per tyre, it can be a pain but it is a bit of piece of mind.

Goodyear charge you $35 or something like that to have a good lifetime warrenty but when they are more exy than BFG and Coopers (in MTR)to start with it makes them a very exy tyre.

[blitz]

I did the same on my ladies Prado they are highway tyres, I'm not even sure what they are, cost 800 fitted and balanced so for Darwin thats not to bad.

for the landy the BF Goodrich AT's they are the highway tyres and I will get another set for basically low ratio or no higher speed than about 60kph if that as I am very close to my fav play area. seriously thinking about the tractor tyres - front steering ones should be ok plenty in 16" rim size. the other which are probably to wide would be dichwitch tyres would be fun to fit though, but I think serious panel work would be required so not realistic on a registered car.

[hiline]

yet another good point to note is that some insurance company's will only cover you if your tyres are rated as per manufacturers specs ;)

i know on the wifes HSE they have to be a high speed and load rated tyre

i would never buy cheap tyres for the wife and kids to drive around on
nor would i do it for my car my life is worth more than a few extra bucks

[blitz]

I wouldnt really call mine cheap just cheaper as they are straight forward road tyres on the Prado proper speed rated etc they were cheaper because they were run out stock last set he had so I got them about 200 of normal price.

I agree with you about missus and kids and cheap tyres that includes me as well as they rely on me for more than just money (I hope) :D

It is a hard call because as someone above said you can stuff a brand new tyre playing in serious 4wd terrain as soon as you get there just as easily as a cheap retread. One point to make about retreads has anyone ever seen the Bandag Bullet in action? although all it does is smoke them off it does give some idea of how far retreads have come.

[97discotdi]

Doing the Canning next June/July not this year promised the missus I would take her on a cruise.

[blitz]

If your doing the Canning probably the an option would be to drive up on your normal tyres and have a set of standard 750 16 and spares there are Isralie army imports with very chunky tread I saw for a reasonable price (cant remember where now)

Lots of side wall damage usually occurs on that track from what I hear

Blythe

[mcrover]

It is a hard call because as someone above said you can stuff a brand new tyre playing in serious 4wd terrain as soon as you get there just as easily as a cheap retread. One point to make about retreads has anyone ever seen the Bandag Bullet in action? although all it does is smoke them off it does give some idea of how far retreads have come.[/QUOTE]

The Bandag Bullet and Bulldog (its pre decessor) dont run on standard build retreads, they are specialy built tyres but are still retreads, minus the tread.

retreads and remoulds are great for a farm truck that doesnt go on the road for more than a few k's or for doing the lowrange stuff as said but I wouldnt say they have come a long way as they are still just gluing tread on a casing.
The point is you dont know where the casing has been.

[130man]

The Beadell Tours web site gives a big rap for MFR steel belted radial tyres in 14 ply. They claim they are the most stake resistant tyres they have come across.Has any one had experience with this brand?Made in India, I think. Good variety of tread patterns. Nice to see a touring company using 130 Defenders as their preferred vehicle.130man.

[PAT303]

I ran BFG track edge tyres on my round oz trip and done 112450klm's on them before another set 110000 and ran over a piece of steel on the road and wrecked two of them.Coopers came next and wet weather grip wasn't good and one started to peel apart so Pirelli scorpions are on it now and they are going well.With a young family I want a tyre that will brake and turn as good as possible for there safety more than mud performance. Pat