How Useless is the Front Tow Point on a D2?

[grumpybastard]

Everyone tells me to never use the front tow point for recovery, but really how weak is it?

Looking at it from an engineering point of view it looks reasonably solid, sure i reckon it would bend, but i dont think it would snap?

http://www.weaselsnout.net/web/pics.nsf/pictures/MARR-72P6UU/$File/MARR-72P6UU.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://www.weaselsnout.net/web/pics.nsf/pictures/MARR-72P6UW/$File/MARR-72P6UW.jpg

[4bee]

I wonder if it's for a tow recovery & transport tie down only?

I don't think I would be doing a snatch recovery with it.:eek:


My D1 has a welded loop only & is a tie down point only, acc. to LRA.


Is there no mention in the handbook?

[Reads90]

Well actually the D2 which you have there is alot better than the D1 or RR classic and Defender. They beefed them up on the D2 as everyone was useing the tie down points (for transporters ) as towing points so land rover beefed them up. But i would still not trust them for snatch recovery or any heavy recovery

[Mick-Kelly]

flat tow, tie down yes. winching i personally wouldnt. Snatch definately not. It all comes down to kinetic energy

[ak]

Don't even think about it. As said above kentic energy.

Quite a few years ago a child was killed on (Morton Island can't remember which one now)? I think that was the one, any way, when someone snatched from the tow ball, the ball became a missel. It might look strong but unless the load is spread across both sides of the chassis I would not risk it.

This was the first mod I made to my D2 before I went to Fraser last year.

[sniegy]

Hi GB,
I have seen this snap twice..DONT use it..
I have some thicker plates on mine from a company called www.4x4intelligence.com.au (http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au)
Its ok to use as a minor tow rope(if u have too), but with no force. Its just not worth it.

[grumpybastard]

I actually sent an email to 4x4 4x4intelligence this afternoon and received a reply from Simon.

The recovery points are sold as a pair but i would need to cut a hole in the bumper to use the second one which im not intending to do.

But i will buy and install both just the same, the 2nd one would be there but not accessible

http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/images/products/recovery_points/defender2.JPG

[Pedro_The_Swift]

unless the new ones stick out substantially,,
on anything but a straight pull the skirt will still cop a flogging,,
but,, if the tides coming in---;)

[Graeme]

I cringe at the thought of using those brackets. The top bolt becomes the pivot and the bottom bolt takes all the force multiplied by 2 due to the lever action. Sure the bracket looks and probably is very strong but with the mounting, is it really any better than the LR tow hook (which was strengthened on the D2a)? The top bolt would not be subjected to the same multiplied force after the bottom bolt sheared, but its still just 1 bolt again.

As I have a bar and winch I have been able to mount a recovery hook to each side of the winch cradle. They point down slightly so the angle of pull is not strictly horizontal with the bolts but I guess that I get about 95% of the load capacity of the bolts as a pair.

I'm much more comfortable with my setup, but its of not much use to others without the cradle for a mount site.

[Mick-Kelly]

My understanding of these points is that they mount horizontally along the chassis rail. Using rated HT bolts this would mean the direction of pull is inline with both bolts and directly through the rail.

I have been known to be wrong before though :p

[grumpybastard]

http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/images/products/recovery_points/d22.gif

http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/images/products/recovery_points/d21.gif

Its an interesting point, it would be interesting to see the comps on them.

Bolts are pretty strong with sheer forces applied to them but if the recovery was from an angle then its a whole different story.

But then there's over engineered and then there's really over engineered :)

[Mick-Kelly]

Ahhhhh I see said the blind man to the deaf woman. I stand corrected.

[grumpybastard]

After some thought, (not a great deal)

i reckon i will weld the updated recovery point to the existing tow point and put the bolts through both.

Then you have the strength being transfered to the left and the right side of chassis rail and not just one side which in my opinion is the weakness of the 4x4 Intelligence recovery point

Opinions?

[shorty943]

Proper strong front bumper and fit it with a Hayman Reece tow point. I like the ability to pull, with force if needed, from the front. Yeah, just fit a tow hitch to a solidly built front crusher.:twisted:

Shorty.

[FenianEel]

You can also use an equalising strap with the above style of point as well, having one on each chassis rail.
I have a similar type on my D2, and have been yanked, snatched and winched with them.

I have seen the factory 'tow points' go, and they are definetely not safe enough for anything other than a flat tow or tie down. LR state they are not rated for recovery or snatches.
As others have said, if you're doing any type of 4wding where you need to be recovered, I'd be losing the factory bumper, it will be lost or hinder you before that anyway. ;)

[grumpybastard]

You can also use an equalising strap with the above style of point as well, having one on each chassis rail.
I have a similar type on my D2, and have been yanked, snatched and winched with them.

I have seen the factory 'tow points' go, and they are definetely not save enough for anything other than a flat tow or tie down. LR state they are not rated for recovery or snatches.
As others have said, if you're doing any type of 4wding where you need to be recovered, I'd be losing the factory bumper, it will be lost or hinder you before that anyway. ;)

Its more a "its there just in case"

[Capstan]

Proper strong front bumper and fit it with a Hayman Reece tow point. I like the ability to pull, with force if needed, from the front. Yeah, just fit a tow hitch to a solidly built front crusher.:twisted:

Shorty.

But then the bumper/bullbar/haymanreece thing is still bolted to the car by the same bolts as these tow points!

[Sequel]

I am interested to hear which part of the factory tow point fails? To me it looks sufficient enough (and I am an engineer, not that it makes me right, but just that I do have a knowledge of materials, tensile strength etc). I can see the rear ones are definately "tie down" only, but I would be happy using the front point, looks like 10mm rod, suficient welds, 2 x 3mm plate, bolted firmly to the chasis?

[dobbo]

I am interested to hear which part of the factory tow point fails? To me it looks sufficieant enough (and I am an engineer, not that it makes me right, but just that I do have a knowlege of materials, tensile strength etc). I can see the rear ones are definately "tie down" only, but I would be happy using the front point, looks like 10mm rod, suficient welds, 2 x 3mm plate, bolted firmly to the chasis?

The only issue I have had with the original point was the bolts holding it in place. Changing these to a HT bolt was not expensive (when compared to the purchase and install price for 1 of the only rated recovery point in Aus for a D2) Personally I cannot see where the cost in the other types are considering they are not certified as rated. My arguement is why put a non rated recovery point on the front of the vehicle to void your insurance. Use the Land Rover one or fork out the big bickies

[Merv]

My arguement is why put a non rated recovery point on the front of the vehicle to void your insurance

I wasn't aware there was an Australian Standard for recovery points. Is it only new?

If there is no AS then any rating on a recovery point would surely be for lifting equipment only. Would that still void your insrance if you were using lifting points for recovery points?

[dobbo]

I wasn't aware there was an Australian Standard for recovery points. Is it only new?

If there is no AS then any rating on a recovery point would surely be for lifting equipment only. Would that still void your insrance if you were using lifting points for recovery points?

so where's your arguement? If any recovery point (read lashing point) available to the general public will void your insurance do as I said and use the Land Rover one. Just replace the bolts on a regular occurance


Just hope your vehicle doesn't kill anyone as it falls backwards down the hill.

[dobbo]

This is one of the reasons I'm going for an old Rangie as an offroader. Apart from the fact they are cheap enopugh to be disposable a recovery point is $20 a side, whilst the D2 is $500 per side.

[ak]

This is one of the reasons I'm going for an old Rangie as an offroader. Apart from the fact they are cheap enopugh to be disposable a recovery point is $20 a side, whilst the D2 is $500 per side.

Dobbo I know where your coming from. In a old post ( 4wd monthly 4wd 2006 ) yesterday I commented on the 4wd monthly Tasman DVD and said I would not take my D2 or a D3 on a trip like that unless someone else was paying for the repairs. That's the problem with the newer trucks they cost a bomb to repair compared to the older trucks.

[Merv]

so where's your arguement? If any recovery point (read lashing point) available to the general public will void your insurance do as I said and use the Land Rover one. Just replace the bolts on a regular occurance


Just hope your vehicle doesn't kill anyone as it falls backwards down the hill.


Ummmmm:(

I was asking a question or two, not putting forward an argument:(

I still would like to know, will using a recovery point void your insurance if it is not rated as a recovery point.......you seem to have some knowledge of this dobbo, is it from first hand experience?

I hope my vehicle never falls backwards down the hill and hurts anyone as much as you. That's why I use recovery points that are up to the job. But your original post got me thinking there must be a new standard available for recovery points, if that's the case it might be time for me to change the ones I currently have.

[dobbo]

Ummmmm:(

I was asking a question or two, not putting forward an argument:(

I still would like to know, will using a recovery point void your insurance if it is not rated as a recovery point.......you seem to have some knowledge of this dobbo, is it from first hand experience?

I hope my vehicle never falls backwards down the hill and hurts anyone as much as you. That's why I use recovery points that are up to the job. But your original post got me thinking there must be a new standard available for recovery points, if that's the case it might be time for me to change the ones I currently have.


I asked an insurance company about recovery points. After a fairly long conversation they effectivally told me in the event of a recovery point failing it would require a thorough investigation into the claim. So in the words of Forrest Gump "I may not be a smart man" but that tells me I'd be up a creek against a multi billion dollar company and potentially a coronial inquest. I am not prepared to take this chance.

[Merv]

I asked an insurance company about recovery points. After a fairly long conversation they effectivally told me in the event of a recovery point failing it would require a thorough investigation into the claim. So in the words of Forrest Gump "I may not be a smart man" but that tells me I'd be up a creek against a multi billion dollar company and potentially a coronial inquest. I am not prepared to take this chance.

LOL, so you cant use a factory tow hook/tie down point and there is no such thing as an australian standard for recovery hooks. We are all screwed, we wont be able to effect any recovories.

I will stick to using the recovery hooks that I currently have, safe in the knowledge that they are adequate for the job, rated or not.:p

[dobbo]

I walked away from the phone confused, and of the conclusion no one wants anyone to go offroad in 4wd's

[dobbo]

I think Jate rings can be bought through Land Rover and can be rated as lifting rings. I wonder how this would effect. Does anyone know where to get rated ones in Australia?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/797.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

how useless is it?

Its so useless it couldnt find porn on the internet.

[dobbo]

how useless is it?

Its so useless it couldnt find porn on the internet.


Hey thats pretty bloody hard on a Government server, thats unless your not looking for it.

[mrapocalypse]

I have spoken to a bloke at ARB re recovery from their Delux Bullbar. They DO NOT SNATCH from the bullbar eyelets! You can hook a double line pull onto them.... ONLY! He then went on to say that the LR ones have proven tough enough to snatch from.

Smell a rat there anyone.

Sounds a like a scripted answer to void any accountability.

No slight on ARB, just smart business I guess.