Power Upgrade

[Stepho_62]

:D JC and I have been "fiddling" with the little Bosch Injector pump :twisted:

I simply can't believe the difference. :eek: Its fully a gear better off without any load on most of the stuff I do around town, It will comfortably pull over the arch of the Tasman Bridge in 5th now as opposed to grudgingly AND with the camper on it is half a gear better off.

Highest exhaust temp so far is 548 degrees c so it will be interesting to see what its like on the way to QLD ;)

Damn this thing just gets better n better. :o

[justinc]

What the???:o Did you drive it around until 7pm?? I know you wanted to test it out but lets see, we finished at 11am, so that makes it an 8 hour test drive!!! I love my Rangie too, but this takes it to new heights....:D

Glad it's going good, here's wishing you two a great trip and an excellent time north of the 26th parrallel.
We'll be up there to invade your privacy at some stage!


Justin and family

[DiscoDan]

Is there a link or how too on this?

[Stepho_62]

Dan

This type of thing is JC's bread n butter and I don't have a photographic memory. The Bosch pump is quite configurable and so there is a bit to it. Whilst I understand exactly what JC did I'd not be keen to regurgatate it ad nauseum. Perhaps you cold PM him.

JC :D <<<<< Thats the grin I have. It still hasn't faded.:p Now if I could only get a plusho Rangie Body, A twin turbo 3.9, 5 Speed, lokers, etc etc etc

Cheers,

[rick130]

Is there a link or how too on this?


the best instructions ever written on tweaking the Bosch pump in Tdi's is on this site here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=326&d=1152411367
it's a PDF file written by Ian Petersen of Thermoguard EGT readout fame. Ian makes probably the best electronic readouts for exhaust gas temp you can get.

[PhilipA]

Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this.
I don't know how this accords with "treading lightly"
Regards Philip A

[Stepho_62]

Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this.
I don't know how this accords with "treading lightly"
Regards Philip A

:o Mate there is no discernable difference in discharge from the exhaust. So I suspect there is only a marginal increase in particulates.

[Pavo]

"Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this."

In what way? Through extra fuel usage? Particulates? How much more do 'tweaked' 300tdi's pollute than 'stock'?

I've got a 'stock' 300tdi, but I'm curious how much worse it can possibly be on the environment to 'tweak' the fuel pump.

This is a genuine question - in the same way I wouldn't advocate to anyone to remove a catalytic convertor off a petrol car.

Pete

[mcrover]

"Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this."

In what way? Through extra fuel usage? Particulates? How much more do 'tweaked' 300tdi's pollute than 'stock'?

I've got a 'stock' 300tdi, but I'm curious how much worse it can possibly be on the environment to 'tweak' the fuel pump.

This is a genuine question - in the same way I wouldn't advocate to anyone to remove a catalytic convertor off a petrol car.

Pete

It would depend on how far you go, if you go for a meaningful power increase but keep well within the perameters of EGT and emisions then It is not neglegable the difference in pollution.

On the other hand the petrol guys that block off EGR and hollow out Cats as well as fuel them up to much with after market ECU's or jet them rich for "More Grunt" well to you guys, your the polluters not us.

Missan Pootrol 4.2 fueled up to blow thick black smoke on acceleration is normal in the bush these days and yes that is pollution but still is not as bad as the crap that comes out of a standard petrol engine let alone the normal go hard mods that most people do.

LPG is the cleanest and if you want that from a diesel put on LPG fumigation "Apparently" it lowers emisions and increases power.

[PhilipA]

One of the major reasons that diesels such as the 200-300 series have limited power is to meet the original pollution levels, the other is longevity.

Pollution is one reason why the 300 series was superseded and now why the TD5 is superseded and why few diesels can be sold in the USA.

Particulates are a BIG problem and now known to be highly carcinigenic.
To increase particulates in any way is really irresponsible, seeing what we now know.

Any increase in fuelling will increase particulates. Diesels always go better with excess fuel, and whether you can see the bits or not is immaterial.

The 300 also has EGR which many disconnect. This only affects Nox, which these days is not seen as the worst gas. Ditto for petrol.

What petrol owners do is really immaterial.
"Oh he killed his wife so it's OK for me to"

My posting is just to give a reality check on those people who increase the fuelling on their cars. Nothing is free. Maybe it costs you nothing but it sure costs society.

LPG fumigation on the other hand appears to be a great thing, and apparently can give additional power without additional pollution or maybe less, as it replaces a percentage of the diesel burnt. So go for it.

Regards Philip A

[Stepho_62]

The 300 also has EGR which many disconnect. This only affects Nox, which these days is not seen as the worst gas. Ditto for petrol.
Regards Philip A

My 300 has NEVER had an EGR fitted.

[PhilipA]

Later 300s , which also had a different injection system also had EGR. although I am no expert on all the nuances, I think all autos had it.
Regards Philip A

[rangieman]

Later 300s , which also had a different injection system also had EGR. although I am no expert on all the nuances, I think all autos had it.
Regards Philip A
If your no expert why comment a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing:eek:

[Stepho_62]

the best instructions ever written on tweaking the Bosch pump in Tdi's is on this site here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=326&d=1152411367
it's a PDF file written by Ian Petersen of Thermoguard EGT readout fame. Ian makes probably the best electronic readouts for exhaust gas temp you can get.

I was in Launceston about a fortnight ago and met Ian's wife fueling up the Disco ready to head to Devonport to get on the boat. Throughly nice lady too.

Cheers,

[mcrover]

If your no expert why comment a little knowledge is a dangerous thing:eek:


One of the major reasons that diesels such as the 200-300 series have limited power is to meet the original pollution levels, the other is longevity.

Pollution is one reason why the 300 series was superseded and now why the TD5 is superseded and why few diesels can be sold in the USA.

Particulates are a BIG problem and now known to be highly carcinigenic.
To increase particulates in any way is really irresponsible, seeing what we now know.

Any increase in fuelling will increase particulates. Diesels always go better with excess fuel, and whether you can see the bits or not is immaterial.

The 300 also has EGR which many disconnect. This only affects Nox, which these days is not seen as the worst gas. Ditto for petrol.

What petrol owners do is really immaterial.
"Oh he killed his wife so it's OK for me to"

My posting is just to give a reality check on those people who increase the fuelling on their cars. Nothing is free. Maybe it costs you nothing but it sure costs society.

LPG fumigation on the other hand appears to be a great thing, and apparently can give additional power without additional pollution or maybe less, as it replaces a percentage of the diesel burnt. So go for it.

Regards Philip A

Where do you get your info, my disco is 97 300tdi auto and has no EGR and never has had it is completely standard as is the settings on the pump.

I did have the pump reset to standard settings though when the timing belt was done last time as I didnt want any reliability problems with the trips we do but now I wish I had spent the money fueling it up.

Last time I heard, the Yanks are the kings of big fuely diesels in chevs, fords and dodge pickups which are bigger poluters than anything sold in Oz, Im pretty sure the reason behind them not selling many small Diesels in the states is more that they are small and under powered in comparison to what the market wants.

[Pavo]

Thanks Philip A.

That is the kind of info I was after.

Pete

[PhilipA]

For example
http://forums.mud-club.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?p=224961&sid=c43ffc93f284a11079568b1b4adeaafc#224961)Posted : Thu May 04, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: Egr blanking plate resultshttp://forums.mud-club.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://forums.mud-club.com/posting.php'mode=quote&p=224961&sid=c43ffc93f284a11079568b1b4adeaafc) Finally Fitted my egr blanking plate today http://forums.mud-club.com/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif "took long enough been in garage 2 months and took 3 mins to fit"
was even suprised that the funny coloured lumps of manky metal even undid with a tiny squirt of wd40 woo hoo.
Even better as i wont find out if theres any change untill friday nite when i drive it down for some surgery on the clutch.

just wondered if anyone had noticed any significant change to the car with the plate fitted?
______________________________________________
1998 300 Tdi aviemore Disco - R99 MUD

Thread is athttp://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php't=23068&start=0

Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

With regard to the USA, a quick search of Google using words like diesel pollution USA, will give you in depth knowledge of the current situation in the USA.
As an example VW were forced to discontinue sale of the Toureg V10 for several months in late 2006 while they updated their technology to meet new regs for Jan 2007.
It is simply untrue that the big USA pickup diesels pollute more than other diesels. Maybe in the past but not now.
Regards Philip A

[justinc]

I agree, Ians website and his tuning data are invaluable references, he has put in a lot of effort to come up with the info, and kept thermocouple manufacturers in business! His D1 is hooked up with about 20 of them reading temp differentials from inlet and outlet intercooler etc etc etc. He is quite a well read fellow concerning thermodynamics etc and has put a lot of theory into practice to come up with all of it.

I bought a few kits from him a few years back, and while booking in to the Cloncurry van park one evening who should come over on an ATV to show us to a site? Ian and Annette were park sitting for some friends! We had an excellent 2 days there, great people.

As for the emissions from these 300 Tdi's, yes there usually is a slight particulate increase, but running higher/ earlier boost will on the whole aid in a more efficient burn of the fuel per cycle, due to higher temps and pressures. This is evident in some of our fuel consumption tests done by owners themselves, about 95% end up using the same if not less fuel for a given trip/ distance. This is obviously not accurate for those that use the extra power on tap for evil intent ( Speeding, smoking out errant cyclists, drag racing auto discos etc etc) and I am only quoting anecdotal customer reports on fuel useage.

My 460,000km old Isuzu 4BD1 turbo will emit LESS visible particulate matter than a Tdi under full noise, and IT has NEVER had the injectors serviced. ( I know, I know...Cobblers shoes and all that, but I AM really busy!!!) It is at the bottom of the emissions regulated pile as an ex commercial vehicle engine therefore quite unfriendly for the environment. I still maintain that with the amount of boost pressure and huge intercooling I am running has a lot to do with its current efficiency, therefore less 'pollution' than a 2.4 hilux struggling up the hill with the fuel rack on the stops, belching smoke and partially burnt fuel, soot and NoX's.

And, The EGR 300Tdi PhillipA is talking about is the EDC ( Electronic Diesel Control) this was never released into australia, and was developed for europe, the US and Japan. It utilised fly by wire fuel pump, an airflow meter and EGR valve, combined with a wastegate duty controller etc. This system is very close to the freelander 2litre diesel from 1998 to the intro of the Td4.

AFAIK in england these EDC engines STILL have trouble with meeting emission standards, especially if the miriad of sensors and the Cat converter for example are faulty.

Thank goodness we don't have to put up with that engine here.

Check out and follow Ian Petersens advice with diesel tuning, he advocates sensible upgrading, keeping fuelling to a level where EGT's are moderate and make sure you don't cut corners and do it without a pyrometer as you very easily could be doing damage to your engine, turbocharger and even the poor little spotted pardelote nesting peacefully in the roadside embankment as you rocket past AT THE SPEEDLIMIT.

JC

[rangieman]

With regard to the USA, a quick search of Google using words like diesel pollution USA, will give you in depth knowledge of the current situation in the USA.
As an example VW were forced to discontinue sale of the Toureg V10 for several months in late 2006 while they updated their technology to meet new regs for Jan 2007.
It is simply untrue that the big USA pickup diesels pollute more than other diesels. Maybe in the past but not now.
Regards Philip A
so a expert with google thats good to know:cool:

[justinc]

With regard to the USA, a quick search of Google using words like diesel pollution USA, will give you in depth knowledge of the current situation in the USA.
As an example VW were forced to discontinue sale of the Toureg V10 for several months in late 2006 while they updated their technology to meet new regs for Jan 2007.
It is simply untrue that the big USA pickup diesels pollute more than other diesels. Maybe in the past but not now.
Regards Philip A

I saw on Youtube recently these peanuts from the deep south or somewhere in the good ol USA flooring their silverados and F250 diesels up and down the streets with a 4" stack out of the tray behind the cab with a COLUMN of thick black exhaust pouring out. This is like 500 times as much smoke as I have seen out of any Kenworth, let alone an 'SUV'. some of them were dynoed and had about 1100ftlbs of torque out of them!!! Can you imagine the EGT??????

Complete pratts the lot of them. So it DOES happen in the USA, and by the looks of it it happens A LOT!!!!

JC

[Stepho_62]

:banban: Ok, I've tried hard to keep my mouth shut WRT this ongoing discussion but now its time for me to have my say.

PhillipA. I am offended and annoyed at being called a Gross Polluter "Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this." in a public forum. For all you know I may very well be running my TDi 300 on Bio Diesel.

My thread has been hi jacked. I find your comments WRT to what I've done ill informed, opinionated, narrow minded, and somewhat surprising coming from someone who I believe drives a 3.9l V8 petrol.

You would do well next time you post to temper your opinion as it's public expression may well effect your continued health and well being.

This is the first and last comment I will make

[PhilipA]

Thank you JustinC for your balanced input
Look I answered this thread a bit tongue in cheek, but a few people have flamed me without doing their homework( which I expected).
Yes I am an expert in Google. I had a job that required research on many topics and I can usually find what I need. There is some skill in it and a lot of hours.eg proving that the Kia had a Rover V6 ( in general chat) meant a lot of research and different combinations. Finally "Rover V6 Korea" found it .

I was trying to make a point. That the person making the statement about the USA could easily check the topic on Google before disputing what I say.
Ditto with the person saying there was no EGR on Disco300 Tdi.

But I ask the question, why upgrade the power when you are not going to use it?
Nobody with any mechanical knowledge would suggest a diesel with an altered pump would produce significantly more pollution while at cruise.

It is the going up the hill or even in undulating country towing a big caravan/trailer at full noise that the particulates would spew out. Or trying feebly to drag a petrol car from the lights, as I have had a TD5 try on me. Unless you live in perfectly flat country, never accelerate /more accurately with a Tdi gain speed noticably,you WILL generate more particulates with a modified diesel. Anyone living on the coast of NSW will generate much more pollution because it is hilly.
Can you honestly say that you do not use the extra power A LOT. Its just human nature.
Being a member of the discovery 4WD club, I have been behind many tdis on many tracks and roads, and every one standard or modified has blown a lot of black smoke (ie particulates) at some time. My wife has become ill on tracks when behind Tdis,and that is mainly idling and gently accelerating. Maybe its the way people drive them, but even in low range the following car gets a lungful on every start up.


There has been a lot of good old partisan support for diesels on this forum and its all good fun, but I have been a bit disturbed for a long time by the notion that it OK to pour more fuel in as long as the EGTs are less than critical, with no consideration of the consequences regarding emissions which directly relates to the lungs of the poor drivers following.

Regards Philip A

[tombraider]

Hey Phil what years your petrol?

[rangieman]

Hows the saying go people in glass house,s shouldnt throw stones

now a 2.5 4cycl diesel emissions compared to a 3.9 v8 petrol :eek:

and if you were worried so much about polution and emissions you wouldnt be driving a 2 tonne v8 petrol 4wd every day:p

[waynep]

Adrian, can I ask some more detail on what extent your "playing" went to ?
Did you do the stage 1 ( stop screw ) plus stage 2 ( diaphram/control cone ), or go to stage 3 ( fuel delivery screw ) ?

I am getting a free flow muffler put on next week and depending on the diffrence that makes, I may play with the stop screw adjustment. However I am not confident to go to stage 2 esp. as I do not have an EGT guage.

How much difference did you find just adjusting the stop screw without pulling the diaphram cover off made ?

[DRanged]

Thank you JustinC for your balanced input
Look I answered this thread a bit tongue in cheek, but a few people have flamed me without doing their homework( which I expected).
Yes I am an expert in Google. I had a job that required research on many topics and I can usually find what I need. There is some skill in it and a lot of hours.eg proving that the Kia had a Rover V6 ( in general chat) meant a lot of research and different combinations. Finally "Rover V6 Korea" found it .

I was trying to make a point. That the person making the statement about the USA could easily check the topic on Google before disputing what I say.
Ditto with the person saying there was no EGR on Disco300 Tdi.

But I ask the question, why upgrade the power when you are not going to use it?
Nobody with any mechanical knowledge would suggest a diesel with an altered pump would produce significantly more pollution while at cruise.

It is the going up the hill or even in undulating country towing a big caravan/trailer at full noise that the particulates would spew out. Or trying feebly to drag a petrol car from the lights, as I have had a TD5 try on me. Unless you live in perfectly flat country, never accelerate /more accurately with a Tdi gain speed noticably,you WILL generate more particulates with a modified diesel. Anyone living on the coast of NSW will generate much more pollution because it is hilly.
Can you honestly say that you do not use the extra power A LOT. Its just human nature.
Being a member of the discovery 4WD club, I have been behind many tdis on many tracks and roads, and every one standard or modified has blown a lot of black smoke (ie particulates) at some time. My wife has become ill on tracks when behind Tdis,and that is mainly idling and gently accelerating. Maybe its the way people drive them, but even in low range the following car gets a lungful on every start up.


There has been a lot of good old partisan support for diesels on this forum and its all good fun, but I have been a bit disturbed for a long time by the notion that it OK to pour more fuel in as long as the EGTs are less than critical, with no consideration of the consequences regarding emissions which directly relates to the lungs of the poor drivers following.

Regards Philip A


Are you for real, my wifes TD5 is chipped so when she tows her horse float it pulls up hills far better, it takes off from an intersection better and gets better economy!! In fact it blows less smoke during normal driving. I wont comment on what is coming out the pipe as I have not analysed it. Maybe you should do the same hey. Unless you are analysing peoples vehicle emmisions yourself, DONT COMMENT.

Justin

[tombraider]

For the record...

A petrol vehicle running unleaded that is 3yrs or over 60,000kms is over polluting unless:

- Its tuned properly
- Has had its charcoal system replaced
- Has a new set of cats fitted

And I dont know many owners who voluntarily do 2 & 3 to keep compliance.

And according to government data, diesel creates more pollution (particulates) per litre, but petrols create more per 100kms travelled.

OK so some people dont like the smell and it makes them I'll... I dont like the smell of LPG, it doesnt mean its worse than the rotten egg factory from a petrols rear pipe.

(I can remember when STD fuel was dropped and unleaded appeared - Everyone hated the smell, now its 'normal'.
Even though unleaded is more carcinogenic than the leaded fuel it replaced)

[72pug]

oh well here goes..........


Dad has a Tdi AUTO.............i used to own this very vehicle,

It has had Injectors and pump repaced.........and 'Mildly tweaked by Ricks',

It has the usual ( and totally NORMAL ) Ball of black smoke on start up....as they all should, and under hard acceleration, initially it gets a quick burst of the same....

About 5 weeks ago, after fitting of upgraded intercooler, we had it on the DTS Dyno up at Toowoomba, to see how it was all cooking,(mainly to make sure all mixtures etc were aok).....the resulting AIR/FUEL ratios were absolutely spot on according to the Dyno, and pickup from the exhaust......even though it appears to have some smoke at times.

The operator of the workshop (Tony), commented that this was as good as it gets really, and also that most of the brand new patrols etc he gets in there were way out compared to the old 'Disco' in front of him. He could have charged more and faffed around trying various things to reduce smoke, but that would just be a fruitless exercise.

CONCLUSION: as long as its not Excessive, those 'TWEAKED' amongst us are no more 'polluters' than anyone else.

Enjoy your new power mate, Have a good trip.

I'm going to be away from the keyboard as of this afternoon as my good wife is giving birth this evening to 'our son'.

Cheers,

Pug.

[mcrover]

Congrats Pug it is a real experience that I would recomend to most people, having kids.

Just to ad fuel to the fire (bad punn I know) If you have put taller rubber on or carry a heavy load regularly then you should adjust your injector pump to suit the load as if it is working all the time on the govners limit then it is not being efficient and not metering the fuel its just trying to dump as much as it can in there.

The tweak doesnt only change mixture but it changes when boost comes on so you can tune it to your driving style and load that you drag around.

I shouldnt actually change the mixture that much rather match it to the engines working load.

[DiscoDan]

Just remember you diesel guys that you are gross polluters when you do this.
I don't know how this accords with "treading lightly"
Regards Philip A

Its alright I have carbon offsetted this by owning more trees:D

[weeds]

geeez steve what did you start here

i best keep quite that mine has been tweeked as well:o

[Stepho_62]

geeez steve what did you start here

i best keep quite that mine has been tweeked as well:o

:p :p

[mcrover]

Thank you JustinC for your balanced input
Look I answered this thread a bit tongue in cheek,If thats what you think is funny other people see as personal insults but a few people have flamed me without doing their homework Did enough of that when I went to TRADE SCHOOL and another thing you fail to realise is that the information that YOU find on googl is written by people like JustinC ( which I expected).
Yes I am an expert in Google.We would never had noticed I had a job that required research on many topics and I can usually find what I need. There is some skill in it and a lot of hours.eg proving that the Kia had a Rover V6 ( in general chat)Turns out that the V6 he was talking about is a Mazda based engine not Rover, Kia used a Rover V6 but not in the carnival in oz was what I got from that thread meant a lot of research and different combinations. Finally "Rover V6 Korea" found it .

I was trying to make a point. That the person making the statement about the USA could easily check the topic on Google before disputing what I say.
Ditto with the person saying there was no EGR on Disco300 Tdi.In OZ we didnt get EGR on the 300 TDI as Justin just said, Google didnt tell you that did it. Also one of the guys at work has a 2005 Chev dual cab with a duramax 6.6 diesel which is bog stock no tweaks which blows lots more smoke than my 10 y/o 300 TDI, he has been told by the experts that this is how they are meant to run and is perfectly legal and within specs

But I ask the question, why upgrade the power when you are not going to use it?Who ever said we werent going to use it, with my bigger rubber and rooftop tent and camping gear etc I could use the extra power
Nobody with any mechanical knowledge would suggest a diesel with an altered pump would produce significantly more pollution while at cruise Well I have been a Mainly Diesel based Mechanic (Qualified cert 1 main stream not heavy) for 15 years.

It is the going up the hill or even in undulating country towing a big caravan/trailer at full noise that the particulates would spew out. Or trying feebly to drag a petrol car from the lights, as I have had a TD5 try on me If he was trying he would have dragged you no worries unless yu have a highly modified 3.9 in you disco and why were you being so irrisponsible and drag racing anyway?. Unless you live in perfectly flat country, never accelerate /more accurately with a Tdi gain speed noticably,you WILL generate more particulates with a modified diesel More as in how much, be specific please. Anyone living on the coast of NSW will generate much more pollution because it is hilly.
Can you honestly say that you do not use the extra power A LOT. Its just human nature.Id use it every day
Being a member of the discovery 4WD club, Poor themI have been behind many tdis on many tracks and roads, and every one standard or modified has blown a lot of black smoke Bull crap, proove it(ie particulates) at some time. My wife has become ill Get your exaust leak fixed and dont stick so close behind other vehicals while 4wding it's dangerous and stupidon tracks when behind Tdis,and that is mainly idling and gently accelerating. Maybe its the way people drive them, but even in low range the following car gets a lungful on every start up.


There has been a lot of good old partisan support for diesels on this forum and its all good fun,may be for you but I have been a bit disturbed for a long time by the notion that it OK to pour more fuel in as long as the EGTs are less than critical,Thats the diesels measuring stick to make sure its all good with no consideration of the consequences regarding emissions which directly relates to the lungs of the poor drivers following.Like I said before tailgating is dangerous and stupid and you shouldnt do it


Regards Philip A

I am also quite insulted and peeved off that some one with so little actual knolage would get this deep into a debate on a subject that you have no idea about.

I love my Disco TDI and I also very much like the V8 versions as well as Rangies and I dont go putting them down because they are petrol and not Diesel.

I have stated in other treads and this one that petrol 4wd owners can be more likely to modify their engines in an irrisponsible manner and this is a true statment. I have worked as a Mechanic on earthmoving equipment, cars trucks, tractors, mowers and 4wd's and so I have seen just about every stupid mod that can be done and most of the diesel vehicals I have had anything to do with have had no mods and any mods that have been done has been with responsible motoring in mind and this is why im annoyed the most.

Google does not make you an expert, it is just a research tool and for you to believe everything you read on the net, well.......

If I have insulted you I apologise but Im just trying to get you to see it how it really is and not through the eyes of someone with a little bit of information and a grudge to bare.

[Stepho_62]

:angel:

Stepho waltzes in stage right with his hail o glowin red hot :D :D :D :D

Time for some common sense.:eek: Bugger me now there is a novel concept.

PhillipA is entitled to his opinion!:)

This is a democratic country and we do have freedom of speech. Personal denigration of an individual for his or her opinions is to my mind inappropriate.:mad:

I've deliberately not rejoined this discussion because I am not well enough versed on the subject to rebut PhillipA's statements but enough is enough.

I was, and still am offended by his statement but I'm a big boy now and this is not a school yard (mind you, you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise).

Writing things in a forum, as pointed out previously, is not the same as a face to face discussion. If phillipA and I were to meet face to face and explore other points of interest we might well agree on some subjects. That is what makes this world a rich and beautiful place.

Lets not spoil each others unfetered access to this magnificent forum with intolerance.

For what its worth, I am a firm believer in environmental conservation. My rig sits on a parking pad outside my house for 5 days a week as I try to limit its use and therefor its impact on the atmosphere.

For all of you, don't ever be afraid to make a statement that you believe in. Just be prepared to change your mind if you deem it necessary.

Regards,

[DiscoManic]

Hello. This is my first attempt at the forum though I have read nearly everything with enthusiasm.
I have recently stolen (purchased at an excellent price), a 97 Disco Tdi. I previously owned a 92V8i which was excellent.
I became frightened to cross intersections or roads with visible traffic. "Just a bit sluggish. Very sluggish actually". I did the Uni filter, bigger intercooler and taipan exhaust thing but I also had the lady gassed. Wow. There is an article last year on more power from the Tdi300 which suggests a ceiling of 300Nm and 120kw when comparing the bottom end similarity to the 3.9 Isuzu.

I have my dyno reports beside me and I can accurately advise that I am getting 96 kws AT the wheels and 279Nms of torque. I am amazed at the difference. I am presently attempting some fuel trials......may take some time and the state($1000) and federal governments ($2000) reckon I'm that gooder bloke they are reimbursing me $3000.00 of the $4250 gas price. It is simple, the 20 litre gas tank mounts in the well under the left side, no loss of ground clearance and the gas lasts longer that the diesel (per tank). I have two or three more projects (nowhere near this expensive) to do and then I'm going to locate a well priced small caravan and take my time circumnavigating this great land. I'll advise of fuel savings but compared to standard outputs all in all I got nearly 50% boost which reminds me I got them to put in a larger intercooler to run 18psi. The standard one doesn't cope at 1 bar (14.5psi and hopeless at 15psi)
The gurus who performed the surgery are United Fuel Injection in Redcliffe. They were terrific.

I hope this is of some interest to someone.
Have a good one. :D :p :o

[edddo]

very well said Adrian its good to see some ethics and maturity in here!

However sarcasm can be fun too, so.......I reckon all tdi drivers should replace thier engines with 20yo V8's in order to save the environment from certain decline.....




firmly tongue in cheek!:cool:

[justinc]

:angel:

Stepho waltzes in stage right with his hail o glowin red hot :D :D :D :D

Time for some common sense.:eek: Bugger me now there is a novel concept.

PhillipA is entitled to his opinion!:)

This is a democratic country and we do have freedom of speech. Personal denigration of an individual for his or her opinions is to my mind inappropriate.:mad:

I've deliberately not rejoined this discussion because I am not well enough versed on the subject to rebut PhillipA's statements but enough is enough.

I was, and still am offended by his statement but I'm a big boy now and this is not a school yard (mind you, you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise).

Writing things in a forum, as pointed out previously, is not the same as a face to face discussion. If phillipA and I were to meet face to face and explore other points of interest we might well agree on some subjects. That is what makes this world a rich and beautiful place.

Lets not spoil each others unfetered access to this magnificent forum with intolerance.

For what its worth, I am a firm believer in environmental conservation. My rig sits on a parking pad outside my house for 5 days a week as I try to limit its use and therefor its impact on the atmosphere.

For all of you, don't ever be afraid to make a statement that you believe in. Just be prepared to change your mind if you deem it necessary.

Regards,

Well said Adrian, everyone should take note of the final paragraph as it applies to most things in life...

JC

[Stepho_62]

very well said Adrian its good to see some ethics and maturity in here!

However sarcasm can be fun too, so.......I reckon all tdi drivers should replace thier engines with 20yo V8's in order to save the environment from certain decline.....




firmly tongue in cheek!:cool:

Ha ha ha

As my dear old mum who turned 83 last week constantly says

"Sarcasm is the wit of a fool"

Then with a sly smile she usually adds

"But then only a fool would comment"

Tounge very firmly in cheek :D

[rangieman]

very well said Adrian its good to see some ethics and maturity in here!

However sarcasm can be fun too, so.......I reckon all tdi drivers should replace thier engines with 20yo V8's in order to save the environment from certain decline.....




firmly tongue in cheek!:cool:

sorry but the history of the v8 rover block goes back to the 50,s it used to be a buick engine which rover bought the rights too
so the v8 rover block is over 50 years old :angel:

[mcrover]

:angel:

Stepho waltzes in stage right with his hail o glowin red hot :D :D :D :D

Time for some common sense.:eek: Bugger me now there is a novel concept.

PhillipA is entitled to his opinion!:)

This is a democratic country and we do have freedom of speech. Personal denigration of an individual for his or her opinions is to my mind inappropriate.:mad:

I've deliberately not rejoined this discussion because I am not well enough versed on the subject to rebut PhillipA's statements but enough is enough.

I was, and still am offended by his statement but I'm a big boy now and this is not a school yard (mind you, you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise).

Writing things in a forum, as pointed out previously, is not the same as a face to face discussion. If phillipA and I were to meet face to face and explore other points of interest we might well agree on some subjects. That is what makes this world a rich and beautiful place.

Lets not spoil each others unfetered access to this magnificent forum with intolerance.

For what its worth, I am a firm believer in environmental conservation. My rig sits on a parking pad outside my house for 5 days a week as I try to limit its use and therefor its impact on the atmosphere.

For all of you, don't ever be afraid to make a statement that you believe in. Just be prepared to change your mind if you deem it necessary.

Regards,

Sorry if I have upset anyone with my comments.

I hear you.

[97discotdi]

The comment about diesel cars not being allowed in U.S.A is an interesting one I have the 300tdi and a VW Golf 2.0ltr tdi. From the information I have read the reason the European diesels don't go to U.S.A is due to the poor standard of diesel over there. Apparently North and South America have the worst standard diesel in the world.

[rogerb]

Interesting thread Gents.

A point raised was that of putting Gas onto diesel.

I have read a lot about this being done with 4.2 Patrols and the results from that were pretty good, but has anyone done a gas over diesel for a TD5.

I am thinking about getting a TD5 Disco, and would appreciate any info from members who have done this conversion.

Cheers,

Roger

[Blknight.aus]

I was going to post some info onto the whys and whens of th EGR valve on the tdi 300...

and some other info about the nuts and bolts of the 3 stages for tweaking the pump and what they mean to your emmissions...

Then i smiled and rememeberd the sage advise of a bloke who built diesels and tuned em when multi stage injection was being finessed.


"dont add more fuel to the flame front if you dont need it"

This thread appears to have become a flame front...


:)

[rick130]

The comment about diesel cars not being allowed in U.S.A is an interesting one I have the 300tdi and a VW Golf 2.0ltr tdi. From the information I have read the reason the European diesels don't go to U.S.A is due to the poor standard of diesel over there. Apparently North and South America have the worst standard diesel in the world.


absolutely correct. The US are only just now in the transition stage of introducing ULSD to their market with a decent cetane rating and most of the nasties taken out.
The quality of the fuel is so important to emission production and control, it can't be ovestated.

[Redback]

Interesting thread Gents.

A point raised was that of putting Gas onto diesel.

I have read a lot about this being done with 4.2 Patrols and the results from that were pretty good, but has anyone done a gas over diesel for a TD5.

I am thinking about getting a TD5 Disco, and would appreciate any info from members who have done this conversion.

Cheers,

Roger

The TD5 doesn't benefit as much as the older diesels with power and economy and at $4000 to $4500 depending on how many gas cylinders you want, the cost (even with the rebate) takes a few years to recoop.

Here's a link to the results of the diesel gas upgrade for all the Rovers they do.

http://www.dieselgas.com.au/landrover.htm

Baz.

[JDNSW]

I have long suspected that the dangers from diesel emissions are overstated - they fail the logic test. While the use of diesel engines has vastly increased in many European cities over the last fifty years, there seems to be no long term trend in cancer cases to reflect this.

But the perception that they are dangerous has, as stated, led to the supercession of the Tdi and Td5 engines. The danger from the particulates probably is very dependent on the composition of the fuel (in the same sense that the dangers of lead poisoning from petrol engines depends on the use of leaded fuel), and there is a widespread use in all fields of data that does not apply - for example the use of accident data from the US to justify the introduction of airbags; most Americans do not wear seat belts, and if you don't wear seat belts, airbags look very good, but if you do, the increase in safety is much more marginal.

LPG (or CNG) added to diesels has the ability to BOTH increase power and decrease fuel consumption AND decrease all emissions. Even small additions of LPG to the air significantly improve combustion, giving a power increase while decreasing emissions. Increase the amount of gas without decreasing the diesel gives quite a large increase in power before emissions rise to the levels seen before fumigation. Emissions can be decreased even more by increasing the proportion of gas without increasing power, with the added advantage of cheaper fuel. There is a whole range of mix ratios that will work, and most improve either power, emissions or economy or all three.

Sounds like a win - win situation; and it IS. Until you find out how much it is going to cost! It is unclear why it is so expensive, possibly because there is little competition and not many are done.

John

[Redback]

Some have said that the benefits of the cheaper LPG will soon be void as the price of LPG goes up, my view of this matter is that it won't be void, it will be like adding an extra fuel tank, the fuel may cost more but your still getting greater range, economy and power and creating less emissions as well, so still a win, win for the user.

Baz.

[tombraider]

Interestingly, several companies have trialled LPG fumigation on diesels and reported a shortening of life of the vehicle (engine).

Whilst it ran better etc... the overall lifespan was reduced.

Combine this with loss of cargo area, increased weight (tank) and other factors and it becomes interesting.

I've searched for more detailed info, but at this stage have been unable to quantify the reports....

I'm watching this with interest. :)

[JDNSW]

Interestingly, several companies have trialled LPG fumigation on diesels and reported a shortening of life of the vehicle (engine).

Whilst it ran better etc... the overall lifespan was reduced.

Combine this with loss of cargo area, increased weight (tank) and other factors and it becomes interesting.

I've searched for more detailed info, but at this stage have been unable to quantify the reports....

I'm watching this with interest. :)

yes, I've heard that as well - but like you, have seen nothing to quantify it. However, I can point out that if you increase the power, by whatever means, you increase load on the bearings, piston/wall contact etc, which will shorten the life to some extent. So you would have to wonder whether the shortened life is only where maximum power has been increased (and used). For a commercial operation the space and weight are a significant factor, and the energy density of LPG is less than that of diesel, probably a little more than the fuel saving due to improved combustion efficiency, and even more to the point the space and weight requirements for an LPG tank are substantially greater than for the same mass of diesel.

John

[Disco_owner]

Stevo

I tweeked my VE Bosch Fuel Injection Pump just to give it a better get up/go
man it made a difference, as soon as I have the pyrometer , I'll go for a Full power upgrade. now I've gotta convince the missus that we really need a Pyromter ? anyone got any ideas ?

[barjop]

Does anybody who has done the fuel pump tweak power up grade do any heavy duty towing, ie caravan or is EGT to much of an issue.

Regards
Barjop

[PAT303]

There's some nose's out of joint on this thread,Anyway I'll say straight up that I'm not a expert on anything but have known a LR mechanic with a hotted up Tdi,and I mean hotted up with everything including LPG that doesn't have reliability issue's and told me that gas lowers the combustion temp and increases power.More power means more load but lowering the temp must be a good thing. Pat