ENGINE GONE 172000ks ANYONE ELSE??

[slipedisk]

Hi all quick story.
Coming home temp went up v fast, rolled the last 100m home, yeh that close, no warning.

Had the head removed, 5mm cracks near 2,3,4 glow plugs gone between 2-3 even without crack testing, I've a new paper weight, gets better.
Say using the front of the vehicle as a guide sitting in DRV's set, ea bore has a score about 10mm wide (going down, "travel") 1,3,4 could get away, maybe, with a hone, 2 no, rebore.

Now this veh 96 Disco manual 300TDI has been svc'd every 10000by last owner, I svc it 7500 (free oil) with DELLO Silver, coolant done 10000, water pump fine, runs a FINER filter with snorkle and as said 172000 on the clock.
Now this went from 1/3 temp to 3/4 in no time, I'd just turned a corner 200m back no pulling issues (uphill), and went past a servo temp guage on the building 1k earlier reading 2* and I remember looking at temp 1/3ish
Anyone come across this in the bores, I've put it back on L/R (being ex L/R svc manager 94-5-6 and still a mech) for answers, I've never come/seen across this.
Be no change out of $6000 on this one.:no2::no2::no2::no2::no2:
Any help from the panel of learnered people.

Thanks for any replys

[mcrover]

Got to ask, has it been tweaked or not running Bio Diesel or anything out of the ordinary, not that these things would deffinatly cause this but could be a part of it.

Im not an engine builder, only done building at trade school and a few for mates and myself, never a 300 tdi so probably nothing new here.

Sounds to me that a fault in the head probably caused by it over heating at one stage probably before you owned it caused a masive failure.

Might be better getting an Inter 2.8 for $10g's off jason if he still has any left, whats another $4g's when you get no follow up probs and a whole new donk to boot.

[trebor110]

My 1995 Disco did the same at 230000. Running one minute then the end. I thought the engine was on fire when i lifted the bonnet. The end result was that the head gasket had let go between 2 & 3. the head melted, injectors & valves melted, cylinder 3 has a alloy lining from the molten head. The car is now in the back shed unregistered & deemed to expensive to fix. May get a doner vehicle on day.

Rob

[Blknight.aus]

IVe seen it but not under those circumstances...

mainly on engines used for burnouts where they do lots of rpms with little cooling flow the oil gets hot sloshed and the bores over heat. (yeah ok I had my country hick burnout phase)

as the cylinders run hotter in a diesel anyway I suspect that It would be pretty much fatal to the piston skits and bores....

[slipedisk]

Thanks gents, no fuel other than normal pump diesel, BP-Shell mainly in the area, even had the Shell tanker in at work so asked him about any funny fuel this time of year (Adelaide) still nothing. She gets the best of everything oils ect my wife drives it mainly with the kids and I'm away a fair bit (work) so I don't skimp on any of the vehs ie mainternace.
Plainly I started my trade in Volvo's and Isuzu trucks in 1989, never seen/heard of anything like this or so premature (Diesel), if it was a ***** box and never looked after you'd understand I'm also a firm believer of Murphy's law but if this "might" be a L/R prob well I'm not footing the whole bill!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[justinc]

Sadly I have one ATM in the workshop with pistons smeared up and down the cylinder walls. This would make it 2 D1's in 2 years with the same result to a serious overheat. The first one drove 25km with almost no coolant and actually stopped (Read siezed) and the owner noticed nothing thinking it was a headwind!!! The recent one drove up a long and steep hill and the same thing, ' it was loosing power so I changed down a gear and tried a bit harder'...Both of them swore blind it hadn't overheated until they stopped and saw steam and smoke. Both temp gauges apparently registered normal until the last minute. This is a good time to recommend people fit a low coolant level alarm....


JC

[DRUT]

I agree with Justin, a low coolant alarm like enginesaver is cheap insurance against a major coolant loss that goes un-noticed. $180 versus $10000, hard to argue with!!!!!:cool:

[DiscoDan]

I agree with Justin, a low coolant alarm like enginesaver is cheap insurance against a major coolant loss that goes un-noticed. $180 versus $10000, hard to argue with!!!!!:cool:

I agree see my post earlier

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=38697

Temp gauge didn't move each time however speaking to the mechanic he explained that the 1st line on the temp guage is normal and the second is hot and by the time it has reached the top of the symbol it has seriously over heated.:eek: The high mark is time for rebuild.

Last time the head gasket blew was 2 km from top of Cunningham's Gap with a B double behind that I had just over taken and I couldn't stop due to no area to do so. It dropped power and I looked down to see the needle shoot up. Well the rest is history.......

Now I have a low water alarm;)

[LR V8]

one of the things I like about this forum is all the stuff I learn.... unfortunately a lot of the time at the expense of problems others have to deal with... I hope they get sorted soon....

Some thoughts that come to an uneducated mind.... particularly with diesels...

In a diesel is the temp gauge conected to the motor at the thermostat ? If so, is it on the engine or radiator side of it ?

Would a thermostat stuck closed lead to this or something similar ? (happened to my EA, no surprises there though lol)

What is the affect of diesel contaminated with ULP or some other high octane petroleum ?

Cheers,

Pete

[cartm58]

and you expect Land Rover to contribute to the repair replacement costs

On what grounds ?

No warranty or guarantee in place so why do you expect a co-contribution from anyone at all

Do you believe in fairies at your age

[up2nogood]

If everything else is OK, it sounds like your thermostat failed closed.

Sometimes you're lucky (my 300TDi failed open) but most times......:mad:

These little buggers need to be replaced every five years at the latest, otherwise they are (along with not changing/flushing cooling systems and regular oil changes) one of the number one causes of engine failure.

The bitch is they cause such a rapid increase in engine temp there's stuff all you can do about it.

The saddest thing? They cost about $40 and are easy to change.

[Tusker]

Correct me if I'm wrong

but isn't there a design issue with the sensor on either 200s or 300s? Maybe both?

Basically its very high in the system. Any coolant loss & its running in vapour, & won't detect rising temp quick enough?

My memory from when I had a 200 is that TDIs have head gasket issues about every 160,000 kms normally, and any overheating just compounds the issue.

The TD5 apparently has the sensor near the water pump

http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=td5kb/techcool

Regards
Max P

[PAT303]

Alot of problems in my opion can be avoided by simple maintenance.Parts in vehicles don't last forever and it's like the thread about the serpentine belt going after 100000km's it should never have got there.Belts are cheap,thermastats are cheap,radiator hoses but all do a very serious job,if they stuff up it's a nightmare and for what,a couple of hundred bucks.LR don't have a service sheet for nothing. Pat

[DiscoDan]

A lot of problems in my opinion can be avoided by simple maintenance.Parts in vehicles don't last forever and it's like the thread about the serpentine belt going after 100000km's it should never have got there.Belts are cheap,thermostats are cheap,radiator hoses but all do a very serious job,if they stuff up it's a nightmare and for what,a couple of hundred bucks.LR don't have a service sheet for nothing. Pat

You are right there Pat, however most of these parts don't have a life against them or fail to meet that life.

Serpentine belts going to 100k is great and changing them at 80k is recommended however if you do change the belt, I found that the tensioner would then stuff up and kill the next belt early. Water pump seals shouldn't fail and these aren't listed with a life. I will agree on the parts price though, cheap enough to replace with gen parts. I got my water pump for $88 and lower hose for $94 and these were from LR. People also tend to forget the heater and ancillary hoses.

Land Rover listed the timing belt at 100k but most say change at 60k and I change mine at 80k. Ford did the same with lower ball joints until 6mm play was within spec's.


Simple maintenance? I go through the car each week checking things like oil's, water, lights and a general look over at the hoses etc. However I still failed to notice the water pump seals leaking and there wasn't water under the car when I pulled up. Mind you there aren't oil leaks either:D

Not having a shot Pat but most of those items aren't listed in the book.

[PAT303]

One of the best things I have is the Haynes manual.Step by step on servicing and what to check.The other good thing is this Forum.How many things has everyone learnt on here? Pat

[cookiesa]

I had a persistent leak somewhere in the cooling system that would only rear it's head on really hot days overtaking or going uphill. The temp would slowly but obviously start climbing until you backed off.

Turned out that there was a small leak from behind an alloy casting (someone will no doubt be able to explain this better!) which the water pump etc bolt through. Apparently this was added to the 300tdi to make changing timing belts easier.... (Hmm already suspect were they? LOL) anyway turns out the water pump basically holds this on and there is a gasket behind it which if the water pump isn't tourqued up correctly and evenly (yes... quilty as charged) it can crush this and leak. Not easy to see looking over the engine until someone points it out to you. Just a warning to others if you can't find where the water is going or fix an overheating issue, might be worth a check.
AND GET A LOW WATER ALARM..... NOW

[PAT303]

cookiesa you are talking about the pistol gasket I think.Every 300tdi owner has replaced one of them.Get ultra blue sealant and new plated bolts when you replace it and do them up evenly. Pat

[cookiesa]

My Landy man was the one who told me about it after I told him about the persistent tiny amount of water it was loosing and the running warm under specific conditions. He knew straight away where to look. Unfortunately he is nearly 400km's away so don't get to let him look often enough

[slipedisk]

and you expect Land Rover to contribute to the repair replacement costs

On what grounds ?

No warranty or guarantee in place so why do you expect a co-contribution from anyone at all

Do you believe in fairies at your age

When a diesel wears incorrectly at all the same spots and done very little for a diesel the customer can ask "why" and inquire about some "discount" don't know how others conduct their business but I don't usually just roll over and adopt the touch your toes position, if I'm looking at $5000+ bill I want to know what’s going on.
When you have been in the game you get to know some people, have no cost towards pulling the head off and $200 off head price, not a big saving but its something.
Today we checked thermostat and water pump both fine, now waiting for the bottom end and bores to be checked.