Ok.Convince Me....P38 or another Disco.

[dirtdodger]

My first post........Been lurking for too long, so it's time to leap in.

I have a problem. I acquired a mint condition Disco recently to use as my daily driver, tow the boat, and go bush. But...........The little lady took to it like
the proverbial duck to water.

Yeah. My Disco is now a shopping trolley, and it's time to replace my old Patrol for something younger.
I have looked at a few DIIs that have potential, but have ben lusting over a
P38. A 2001 Dse, 100,000 Ks, asking price low 20s.

I believe the P38 has similar electrical gremlins that the DII has.
However, does a P38 make a "good used 4wd", electrickery aside?

I do all my own maintenance, including the electrics, and I am not dependent on the stealers, but would a P38 still bankrupt me?

I dont know anyone who owns a P38, so a little first hand knowledge would be appreciated, and never seen a P38 in the bush to see how they perform.

Or should I just "have a lie down" until the feeling goes away and go buy another disco?

I have searched various forums including Aulro but there is not a lot of info out there. Maybe you guys can guide me with some pearls of wisdom.
Thanks in advance and thanks for a site that has lotsa good techo information.

[rangieman]

My first post........Been lurking for too long, so it's time to leap in.

I have a problem. I acquired a mint condition Disco recently to use as my daily driver, tow the boat, and go bush. But...........The little lady took to it like
the proverbial duck to water.

Yeah. My Disco is now a shopping trolley, and it's time to replace my old Patrol for something younger.
I have looked at a few DIIs that have potential, but have ben lusting over a
P38. A 2001 Dse, 100,000 Ks, asking price low 20s.

I believe the P38 has similar electrical gremlins that the DII has.
However, does a P38 make a "good used 4wd", electrickery aside?

I do all my own maintenance, including the electrics, and I am not dependent on the stealers, but would a P38 still bankrupt me?

I dont know anyone who owns a P38, so a little first hand knowledge would be appreciated, and never seen a P38 in the bush to see how they perform.

Or should I just "have a lie down" until the feeling goes away and go buy another disco?

I have searched various forums including Aulro but there is not a lot of info out there. Maybe you guys can guide me with some pearls of wisdom.
Thanks in advance and thanks for a site that has lotsa good techo information.
You answered your own question , Dont go the p38 as there is enough of the dramas posted on this forum , But ill say most of the faults should have been sorted by now , but they aint for me:angel:

[Michael2]

Since you'll be running a HIS and HERS fleet, I suggest HIS car becomes a Defender - the best bush car out. Add some bling to give it a distinguished look and drive it with pride.

It's a good daily driver / towing car.

If you budget $5K p/a for repairs to the P38 and spend that on Defender Accessories you'll be a lot happier and have more to show for your $$$$.

Welcome by the way.

[ladas]

Never owned one - but from reading between the lines - I really wouldn't go that way.

If you want something for 'off road' - why not defender ?

Or a nice cheap D1 that you can 'play' with.

If the vehicle is a 'toy' there are limits with what you can achieve with a D2 (trust me I have found out the hard way).

I would have thought a nice Defender or County would fit the bill, but not a P38

[lokka]

Well what about a rangie clasic theres plenty of good ones still available even some nice modded oneswith deso motors or maby a d1 but beta still if its guna be your car ya cant go past a d90 they look great and go even beta tho there hard to find :D:D:D:D

[dirtdodger]

Yeah. Well. I was hoping to palm off a P38 to the lady, so I can get my disco back.
I really do need (or want) an auto for my work commute, or I would seriously consider a fender.

Hmmmmm.....Is a P38 THAT unpopular?

[Maggot4x4]

Yeah. Well. I was hoping to palm off a P38 to the lady, so I can get my disco back.
I really do need (or want) an auto for my work commute, or I would seriously consider a fender.

Hmmmmm.....Is a P38 THAT unpopular?

Why not a defender with an auto conversion?

I like the P38's my self, but too much to go wrong to justify the purchase.

[Quiggers]

Having read sooo much about the P38, I'd rather have a (nother) Disco.

GQ

[ladas]

Yeah. Well. I was hoping to palm off a P38 to the lady, so I can get my disco back.
I really do need (or want) an auto for my work commute, or I would seriously consider a fender.

Hmmmmm.....Is a P38 THAT unpopular?

Easy enough to put an auto in a defender I would have thought

P38 unpopular, dunno, about as popular as a pork chop at a jewish wedding :D

No honestly...........they seem to have more than their fair share - have a chat with Ron -

[Ace]

i did a fair bit or research into the P38a a while back after toying with the idea of getting one, in the end i couldnt afford anything at the time but i did find out that

Models pre 99 are a time bomb waiting to go off, they suffer from numberous electrical gremlins, and when parts fail they are expensive to fix. The 4.6L engines suffer from slipped liners.

Post 2000 models were fitted with the bosch electrics so are less problematic, but some still talked about problems. I am sure there are just as many good P38's as there are bad ones, its just that you hear alot about them stuffing up thats all. They certainly are a nice car, and drive beautifully, if you do end up getting one get the newest you can with the best service history. Matt

[Landy110]

Call me ignorant, go on! But I thought a P38 was a leyland from the 70's with a boot you can play football in! Or in the words of Pauline Hanson "Please explain"

Steve

[rangieman]

Call me ignorant, go on! But I thought a P38 was a leyland from the 70's with a boot you can play football in! Or in the words of Pauline Hanson "Please explain"

Steve

Your thinking P76:angel:

[ladas]

Call me ignorant, go on! But I thought a P38 was a leyland from the 70's with a boot you can play football in! Or in the words of Pauline Hanson "Please explain"

Steve

I think you are thinking P76http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/images/p76index_01.jpg (http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/p76storyf.htm)


A P38 looks like this

http://www.connectstores.com/lr/images/RangeRoverp38.jpg

SLIGHT difference

[sniegy]

"lusting over a P38. A 2001 Dse, 100,000 Ks, asking price low 20s."
Goodaye "Dirtdodger",
Be careful, not sure if it was a typo or not but Australia never got the Dse, We only ever had V8 engines, 4.0Ltr & 4.6Ltr, HSE, SE & S, from 95-02my's.
We never received from the factory or Australian orders for a Dse (diesel).
Factory fitment was the BMW 3.0ltr 6Cyl diesel, which had lots of head problems but this was only for Europe/UK. I have seen a few imports & a nice machine, but parts (specialised) would be a problem to get.

The P38a is a nice vehicle, it does have its gremlins, but is very capable & comfortable offroad, the later ones i have seen (bosch injection) have more power & seem to be more reliable. The EAS has its finical faults, but if u are electrically trained fault finding is easier for some, This is the common fault EAS sits on its bump stops & u end up with a harsh ride-with no kidney belt.
But this only equates to the petrol engined vehicles in Aus.

Good luck hunting..All the best

[Landy110]

You are right I was thinking P76 but a bloke in Cowra bought one when they were brand new and was later heard in the Ford dealership saying "what do you think of my P38" When the dealer said "isn't that P76" the owner replied "No It's only half a F#####g car"! True story, my farther was there to buy a Fairlane. For some reason the P38 bit seems to have stuck!
At least now I know what a P38 is when mentioned in Land Rover circles.
Steve.

[jsp]

I love my P38. But it doesn't love me.

The whole bosch/GEMS debate is bit of hoo har to me, as I haven't seen the engine management electronics fail yet, its all the other gizmo's which got the updates. If anything, the cooling fans on the bosch management computers fail. No fans on the Gems.

The liner issue is a big concern, there's a few getting about now with top hat liners to permanently solve the issue.

I have seen a DSE here, sounded like a damn tractor! The dealer said it was not an overly nice car to drive power wise, never driven one myself.

Electrical gremlins galore! Allthough ask P38 Ron he has great luck with his :)

If you really are intent on doing all your own servicing you might want to take into account the occasional need for expensive diagnostics gear ($1500 plus) or have a good relationship with a garage who allready has the goods!

Also if driving around in something like this doesnt scare you - go for it :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/51.jpg

[disco-bob]

My first post........Been lurking for too long, so it's time to leap in.

I have a problem. I acquired a mint condition Disco recently to use as my daily driver, tow the boat, and go bush. But...........The little lady took to it like
the proverbial duck to water.

Yeah. My Disco is now a shopping trolley, and it's time to replace my old Patrol for something younger.
I have looked at a few DIIs that have potential, but have ben lusting over a
P38. A 2001 Dse, 100,000 Ks, asking price low 20s.

I believe the P38 has similar electrical gremlins that the DII has.
However, does a P38 make a "good used 4wd", electrickery aside?

I do all my own maintenance, including the electrics, and I am not dependent on the stealers, but would a P38 still bankrupt me?

I dont know anyone who owns a P38, so a little first hand knowledge would be appreciated, and never seen a P38 in the bush to see how they perform.

Or should I just "have a lie down" until the feeling goes away and go buy another disco?

I have searched various forums including Aulro but there is not a lot of info out there. Maybe you guys can guide me with some pearls of wisdom.
Thanks in advance and thanks for a site that has lotsa good techo information.



welcome, you could do far worse than have a chat to ron(p38arover i think). i found him honest and knowledgeable re p38s. ron loves them, but he wont pull any punches. good luck.

thanks rob.

[DiscoTDI]

Speak to Ron, he will give you the most honest answer. I personally would get one and have come close to a couple so far, I have been told if I get one get a post 2000 model as the others are a bit problematic. Mind you I think they look great, they are great to drive and would by one in a flash next time I get a chance, simply said if you want one you will get it and suck it up if there is problems:twisted:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

If you like technology,, the P38 will feed it to you by the shovel.

I think everyone should own one,,
at least once;)

[dobbo]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/262.jpg



This P38 owner has modified the look of his face to hide the disgruntled frown


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/263.jpg


This type of P38 owner believes it's the best car in the world, and will refuse to ever buy anything else, he just looooves it.

[adm333]

Go the P38, you only live once.

I am about to do the same myself.

I do not believe that all P38 Range Rovers are time bombs waiting to go off.

By the same token you need to be realistic and budget a few K for inevitable repairs.

Yes there are horror stories, but not many people get on and tell you when things DON'T go wrong.

[DirtyDawg]

Neither, V8, probably be banned in 2 yrs for carbon emissions:D:D:D:D

[Camo]

Stay away from P38 what ever you do..worst 4x4 landrover has made.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Neither, V8, probably be banned in 2 yrs for carbon emissions:D:D:D:D

gee Dawg,, I thought it was diesels they were banning:angel::p

[dirtdodger]

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.

As for a P76 being only half a car :D I had the displeasure of working on one or two............Keep the engine, and use the rest for an artificial reef.

Yes.I typed Dse, but meant Hse. (my keyboard has a problem)

I have been looking at a Hse with Bosch motronics. which works ok on DIIs and Beemers.

Jsp: I could get by with an interior like your piccy, but the cook would be unimpressed.

Dobbo: ROFLMAO

I do like to "play" in the bush.
I wonder how a P38 would look with tree branch "pin striping" and mashed door sills after a trip to Sundown National Park?
As Ladas suggested, maybe a late D1 with "extras".......and have money left over to repair the door sills.

[Scouse]

Stay away from P38 what ever you do..worst 4x4 landrover has made.Not quite - you forgot about the Freelander.

There are good cars & there are bad cars with every model. I run a Classic & a P38a. The P38a is fantastic for trips & so comfortable to drive.

Because virtually everything on the P38a is electronically controlled, they can be troublesome but most would have had all the latest components fitted by now.

[dobbo]

so which type owner are you Scouse?

The sad bloke with a smile painted on his face, or the...........





Wait I know the answer, you own Morris' ;)

[Scouse]

I'm always smiling when I'm in my Range Rovers :D.



I'm not smiling when I'm under them though :(.

[mcrover]

I have 1 mate with a P38a and he has had a lot of trouble with it but his is an early one and it is looking as though it's looking as though it may have a slipped liner or blown head gasket at the moment.

Im pretty sure all P38s are time bombs but only some go off rather than like most cars where only some are problematic.

They are a really nice car to drive, one of the nicest I have ever driven for that matter but if you buy 1 you need to buy a truck load of spare parts and a crap load of diagnostic equipment as well.

Off road, we have had my mates out in the paddock once and it did do remarkably well but none of us were comfortable to do it on a regular basis as there is just too much money in that drive train and suspention to be pushing it off road.

I would go another Disco or a Fender and do an auto conversion, then youve got the off road ability at least.

[BigJon]

I think the DSE engine was a 2.5 litre, not a 3 litre.

I used to own a P76 (and I am proud of it!) and I found it to be a great car.

[Ace]

where are ron and steinzy when you need them. Ron has had endless problems with his but it is a 95, steinzy's is a 2000 or 2001 i think and most of the stuff that has gone wrong with it was him breaking stuff from memory.

I like them, i would buy one, but there are two reasons why i wouldnt

1) i cant afford the petrol money
2) i am not confident enough with electronic stuff yet, have honed my mechanical skills nicely but would need to work on my electronic skills, but i suppose buying an early p38 would be a great way to practice. :D

[jsp]

I dont think early P38's are THAT bad, there's a few kicking around here with high K's which are pre 97. Give all the 2000+ models another 5 years and 150,000 k's and see what they end up like. The only MAJOR thing I have done it kill a transmission, and in the big picture it wasn't anywhere near as much to replace as I thought it would be. The previous owner did cook the engine and had it resleeved. Mind you, I have been lucky enough to spend an hour with Ron and he loves his P38 ;)

[mcrover]

I think the DSE engine was a 2.5 litre, not a 3 litre.

I used to own a P76 (and I am proud of it!) and I found it to be a great car.

I once owned 1/2 of a P76, with a mate to drag a car trailer around for the race car.

It was on LPG and could drive huge distances in comfort on the cheap and I dont remember ever spending a cent on it other than serviceing, rego and insurance.

We picked it up for $500, we had it chocka block with tool boxes and camping gear.

Everyone gave us crap for it but we helped quite a few of them out on the way too or back from races.

Only had it for just over a year but it was one of the best cars I had had but I knew a few people that had bad ones.

[p38arover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/262.jpg



This P38 owner has modified the look of his face to hide the disgruntled frown


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/263.jpg


This type of P38 owner believes it's the best car in the world, and will refuse to ever buy anything else, he just looooves it.

Who got my private pics to post here?

:mad:

Ron

[Hardy]

P38's are an enthusiasts car, end of story.
Real mile-munchers on road and with a bit of kit - absolute tractors off-road.

Don't take opinions from those who've never owned one, listen to those that have but remember people love to share their woe, not necessarily their joy.
Go to rangerovers.net - see buying guide etc and also check out the attached forum.

As far as mechanicals go, I don't think they're any worse than the original Range Rover when it was released some 35 years ago. People bagged them then, people bag them now.

As for electronics - the P38 is a crude abacus compared to say a D3.
That model has over 25 seperate ECU's all interlinked, some by fibre optic cable.
The P38 has only 2 or 3 ECU's that really matter (EAS, BECM and maybe HEVAC)
You'll find a lot of errors / faults can be fixed without expensive diagnostic equipment.
Eg 1 - Dealer Testbook couldn't locate SRS fault. I squeezed plug under seat tight, problem fixed.
Eg 2 - My ROVACOM showed 7 individual HEVAC faults. I swapped a few relays around, problem fixed.
Eg 3 - My ROVACOM showed 11 individual BOSCH fualts. Put a new MAF meter and knock sensor on, problem fixed.

Now before you all get too carried away: Eg 1 - SRS light was on. Eg 2 - Book Icon showing. Eg 3 - Car was running like a piece of crap.
None of these required diagnostics to realise OR fix - but they sure made it easier.


I could go on forever about what's good and bad about the P38 but I shan't as the internet is your friend.
Do your research. Post 99 is better. Low kay's are better.
The car has only been around for 13 years, there's plenty of knowledge about.

Fuel consumption is the main thing I don't like about them, plus the small boot.
Seems I'll have to cut the back off, make it a dual cab then supercharge it....

Good luck,


Hardy

[Measurer]

i have a 1999 4.0 Thor P38 & have used as a daily driver, off road work vehicle with no real issues for over 3 years. It has 160k's on it and goes well. I have replaced the rockers, under dash heater core o-rings, hi-low electric shifter motor and rebuilt the EAS air block & compressor. All up spent about $5k. Now needs front rotors replaced (normal wear). Absolutely great in the bush with 4 wheel traction control - goes easily where our V8 D1 struggles. Look for one with low kms and great service history at LR stealer or someone like Graeme Cooper or Bruce Davis. Those who don't knwo LR's could have missed things. Buy one with confidence provided you check the basics with electrics & drive train.

[p38arover]

where are ron and steinzy when you need them. Ron has had endless problems with his but it is a 95,

I disagree. The only major problems I've had with mine has been the slipped engine liners and two broken flex plates. The second of which was probably caused by not noticing the hub aligner on the flywheel was flogged out when the first plate was replaced.

Re other things I've written up for the Rangerovers.net website, most have been how to remove panels, etc., to replace globes, e.g. HEVAC illumination, radio screen illumination, control switch bulbs, etc. I replaced one blend motor 5 years ago not long after buying it (I've had nearly it 6 years) and a temp sensor. I had a 2/3 blocked radiator which I think was the reason for the overheating and liner slippage (which I think had occurred before I bought it).

I stripped a couple of teeth of a diff. I had a pressure switch fail on the brake pump, leaking oil pressure switch. Oh, and the loss of the circlip holding the oil pressure relief valve in - meaning a new tinming cover and oil pump was required. That was due, I think, to the circlip having been removed during some engine work and not being reseated properly.

The coil pack had one terminal burned off owing to arcing from an ignition lead that wasn't pushed all the way in. That was expensive.

Everything else has been fair wear and tear, e.g. air suspension bellows replacement, brake accumulator replacement.

I had a lot of backfires with the LPG system and that cost a lot of money for new airboxes until I changed to the older cylindrical steel aircleaner!

Notice how some of the expensive stuff has been to lack of attention.

My car has 220,000km on the clock.

[Rangier Rover]

P38 Seem Nice. I Have a few Rover friends who say the runinng cost are epic!:o 2 ECU"s, Air Bags, Air pump, Sliped liners, etc. If you do your research on these some of these dramas can be sorted with out magor $$$$$. Beware, They are nice but full of gizmo's. Till this day ,I've not been game to take one on here. (I don't need the gizmo's) They can be nice!http://www.hardrange.com/:D
Cheers RR.

[LoveMyV8County]

Got a mate with a P38 - he loves it but a month or 2 ago he was a bit green around the gills. Apparently there was a period where the aluminium in the V8 was crap quality and corroded badly.

He has had problems with the air suspension (=> family holiday driving around on the bump stops), electronics in the stereo and the motor as above.

However I get a sense that once improved from the questionable factory quality it would be an awesome comfortable capable luxury 4wd if you can live with the fuel consumption and the small boot as others have commented.

[jsp]

whats with the small boot comments? its bigger than the classic rangerover?

[Taz]

I havent given this much thought, but has anyone considered removing the GEMS system - i.e. replace the ZF transmission with an earlier non-electronic unit, use an aftermarket fuel injection system e.g. Wolf, disable ABS, make a manual control system for the EAS and the heater etc?

Certainly a bit a of work and would end up being a bit untidy on the inside, but you might end up with something you would be more comfortable taking to remote places.

[adm333]

I havent given this much thought, but has anyone considered removing the GEMS system - i.e. replace the ZF transmission with an earlier non-electronic unit, use an aftermarket fuel injection system e.g. Wolf, disable ABS, make a manual control system for the EAS and the heater etc?

Certainly a bit a of work and would end up being a bit untidy on the inside, but you might end up with something you would be more comfortable taking to remote places.

Yes, Holden thought of this and called it the "Commodore"