Will the true Land Rover please stand up?

[scrambler]

Adding another chapter in the descendents of the Land Rover, Iveco will market the "Massif" - an updated Santana Anibal/PS10. The vehicle is based on a radically reworking of the Series III platform Santana bought from Land Rover in the 1980's. Still has leaf springs, though :D

Iveco plans to market globally, and you may notice the New Zealand connection in the sponsorship - so may come to this neck of the woods.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.martos4x4.com/santana_anibal_-_mejor_todo_terreno_del_mundo.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Diveco%2Bmassif%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff %26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_en___AU219
(Aplogies for the translation!)

[Defender=1st]

Will the PS10 be discontinued ??
is the PS10 the anibal ?? (never herd that name)

[scrambler]

PS10 = Anibal (Hanibal in Spanish). The PS10 name is, as far as I know, only used in the UK. Elsewhere in Europe Anibal is used.

[Defender=1st]

i think i like the Massif more than the PS10. but cant beat the original DEFENDER

[Phil633]

Iveco plans to market globally, and you may notice the New Zealand connection in the sponsorship - so may come to this neck of the woods.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.martos4x4.com/santana_anibal_-_mejor_todo_terreno_del_mundo.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Diveco%2Bmassif%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff %26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_en___AU219
(Aplogies for the translation!)

I would be surprised if these were brought into OZ, as the decsicions re models for Australia & New Zealand are made in Dandenong, and I don't think the Massif fits their plans. Which is a pity as I would love to be involved in something like these. The last time Dandenong had something like this it was under the International banner when they had the Scouts with the 345 V8.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/227.jpg

[loanrangie]

A bit archaic with the leaf springs but they will be needed to carry those big maori boys !

[Frenchie]

Gotta love literal translations:

YOU CAN KNOW MAS DETAILS WITH THE ADVANCE ITS TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS, ITCHES IN THE IMAGES OF DOWN AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THEM GREAT SIZE

[Ruslan]

Have driven one, gearbox is crap, IMHO.

DEFENDER is the BEST of the BEST!

[Phoenix]

I don't mind the look of the iveco (apart from the odd graphics). I've actually got a good review in a LROI somewhere comparing the series 3, PS-10 and defender.

[Ace]

i dont care how it goes, i will never own one, it looks good though.

[Frenchie]

Have driven one, gearbox is crap, IMHO.

DEFENDER is the BEST of the BEST!

Don't they use the LT-85?

[scrambler]

"The main gearbox is the renowned Santana LT85 5 speed gearbox, configured to give selection of 4x2 and 4x4 on the move in high ratio, coupled to a transfer box to give a further 5 speeds in low range for-wheel drive."

From http://www.atsales.co.uk/santana.html

[isuzurover]

PS10 = Anibal (Hanibal in Spanish). The PS10 name is, as far as I know, only used in the UK. Elsewhere in Europe Anibal is used.


It is called a PS10 in France and Germany. I posted this thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php't=60209&highlight=ps10

After I saw one for sale in france. The pics are lost though - will have to dig them out again.

At least they have a decent sized rear diff (unlike current defenders).

[mcrover]

Add a coil conversion and I think it wouldnt be too bad, nice to see that LR are not the only ones who think that design is still good enough for todays market.

[scrambler]

It is called a PS10 in France and Germany. I posted this thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php't=60209&highlight=ps10

After I saw one for sale in france. The pics are lost though - will have to dig them out again.

At least they have a decent sized rear diff (unlike current defenders).
Thanks - I only had some early info off the web on what it was called in different places, good to have some local knowdge!

IMHO (really humble given my mistakes) Land Rover will drop the Defender product line in 2012 (or whenever the Euro aggresivity checks come in) and the PS10/Massif will be the effective replacement. We, of course, might not warrant a replacement since we buy so few Defenders :(

If Mussos and other half-baked jerry-rigged 4wds can find a market here, surely there's a place for a basic utility 4wd? I'd prefer that as a Land Rover (I liked the suggestion on the OL thread of re-instating the 101) but I don't think it's their "core market" any more.

[JDNSW]

.............
If Mussos and other half-baked jerry-rigged 4wds can find a market here, surely there's a place for a basic utility 4wd? I'd prefer that as a Land Rover (I liked the suggestion on the OL thread of re-instating the 101) but I don't think it's their "core market" any more.

The basic problem is that it is nobody's "core market" any more. There never was a really big market for this sort of vehicle - in Australia it was really established by Landrover, but then others got in on the act, mainly Toyota, Nissan and Willys. But Landrover was the only one for whom it was a core business - but it wasn't even really that either, because Landrover has always been part only part of the manufacturer's business. Initially it was only a short term stop gap to stop Rover going broke, and comparing the money put into the Rover cars and the Range Rover, they never regarded it as "core business". For Toyota and Nissan the four wheel drives have always only been a minor adjunct to their "core" cars and trucks. Willys was an exception - after their car business folded they were for a few years manufacturers of only utility four wheel drives (U.S. Defence purchases kept them going!) - but where is Willys now?

Then the boom in recreational four wheel drives came along - and every man and his dog is making one (e.g. Musso) - but the only real utility four wheel drives are the Defender, Landcruiser and Patrol - plus a host of four wheel drive conversions of two wheel drive utility vehicles (some halfways reasonable), all of which sell far more in two wheel drive, but further fragment the utility market, especially since they are all cheaper than the real utility four wheel drives. And with the possible exception perhaps of the Defender, all of these have been heavily influenced by the far larger recreational four wheel drive models from the same manufacturer, making them a lot "softer" than they were originally.

John

[DeeJay]

I did'nt read the fine print, but are they Parabolic springs?
I mean 2 front leafs?

[JDNSW]

I did'nt read the fine print, but are they Parabolic springs?
I mean 2 front leafs?

I didn't read it either, but seeing that Santana started fitting parabolics to their "Landrovers" about the time Landrover went to coils, I'd be surprised if they were anything else! I have heard that Santana invented them, but not sure I believe that.

John

[RobHay]

A bit archaic with the leaf springs but they will be needed to carry those big maori boys !

Hey! Whats wrong with leaf springs?.....I've got four of them under my Landrover........and four under the other one.........and four under the other one.........Oh Hell! Hope the missus don't read this:angel:

[Defender=1st]

IMHO (really humble given my mistakes) Land Rover will drop the Defender product line in 2012 (or whenever the Euro aggresivity checks come in) and the PS10/Massif will be the effective replacement. We, of course, might not warrant a replacement since we buy so few Defenders :(

Wont the Santana PS10 be discontinued when the New Massif comes out ?? (thats the Idea i got being the updated version) They look the same except differend headlights and by the pictures the Massif has a 3.0lt rather than the 2.8

[sean0]

Thought I might update this....as the Massif appears to have been released in Europe at the Amsterdam commercial vehicle show.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=123283

http://www.autosavant.net/2007/10/spains-land-rover-clone-takes-on-real.html

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2007/cars/other/iveco/02/massif/1202.html and old article but interesting nonethe less because it suggests that the driveline will include the LT85 g/box and LT230 transfer case...

With LR's imminent sale, its current move up market and the global rebirth of the G-wagen......this thing might be the nearest thing we'll ever see to a 'new' Defender.

And it'll sit mighty well in under the new Iveco Daily 4x4 which is intent on hunting Unimog's........with an Oz wide Iveco presence and the final demise of the 200 series Toyota as an affordable machine, the Massif would have to be damn tempting thing to take on the equally agricultural but still expensive 75 series Yota's.

[JamesH]

Gotta love literal translations:

YOU CAN KNOW MAS DETAILS WITH THE ADVANCE ITS TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS, ITCHES IN THE IMAGES OF DOWN AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THEM GREAT SIZE

I've had offers to enlarge parts of my anatomy sent to my email address saying this and here it is appearing on a the website for Spanish Landy.

[Phred]

One can only hope they build them better than they build trucks