Me thinks something stinks, some legal advice please.

[drivesafe]

I have some young relos in NSW who are in the process of buying there fist home BUT after having the home inspected, the guy who did the job said that an owning fixed to the house had been approved to be built but had not had a council inspection done so there was no final approval of the structure.

So far, not to bad BUT today the relo’s solicitor, someone the real estate agent had arranged, asked the relos to come into their office and sign a stat dec saying that the owning on the house matched the plans, NOT SO GOOD.

I would have thought this was up to the solicitor to sort out with the current owner and the council.

Can anyone tell me if this is the norm or should the relos be doing something to protect themselves.

Cheers.

[p38arover]

If there is no final inspection, I suspect the council could ask for it to be removed or rebuilt to their satisfaction.

Phoenix is in the legal business - he'd know more than me.

Steinzy is in the real estate game, he might be able to help.

Unless your rellies are qualified builders or architects, how can they sign a stat dec to say the awning matched the plans?

Sounds suss to me.

Ron

[abaddonxi]

Time to negotiate the price waaaay down.

I'm in Leichhardt in Sydney, and last time I looked into a similar situation with my council they said it could be either $450 for an application, inspection, etc. to get it approved, or if totally dodgy they can order you to knock it down.

On a smaller scale a mate bought a house with a deck that wasn't approved by council, vendor dropped the price by a bunch and demolished the deck.

You can apply to the council to gain access to all documents that they hold on a particular property, this will confirm if there was development approval, or a phone call to the council should do it.

Worst comes to worst they have to demolish the awning. Get bucks off to cover the cost of demolishing, going through council, rebuilding.

Get another lawyer and start some trouble with agent and lawyer. If they're employing the lawyer he or she should be representing their interests not vendor or agent.

Of course, I'm neither a lawyer, an agent, or a council building guy, so I really haven't the foggiest.:D

Good luck with it.

Cheers
Simon

[DEFENDERZOOK]

sounds to me like the agent and the lawyer are best buddies.......

get an independent lawyer to go through the paperwork befre you get burnt......

[loanrangie]

I dont know about NSW but in Vic you dont need council approval or permits if the addition is under 5k and within the council guidelines , ie distance from boundary etc.

[p38arover]

In NSW, you need council approval to put up a flagpole or even a shelter for the car - and I mean one of those cheap polytarp shelters.

No approval and you are liable for a $110,000 fine.!

Ron

[Blknight.aus]

from our last dealings with buying a house (both our houses are in queensland)

The house should be clear of all titles and encumberments prior to sale unless advertised and sold as being otherwise.

If they have listed the house as having the awning, it should have all its permits and certifications already.

If the house has been listed as "needs maintenance or needs renovations" then the sellers do have a legal out...

but it does sound sus to me since their lawyers have the plans and seem to think they match up get your legal team to check it out compare both and show both sets of plans to you.

[CraigE]

Part of the settlement process is usually to have additions checked by the local council building inspector and either have any unspecified additions added to the plan, upgrades/repaiirs reccomended before re-inspection or demolition/removal order. It all depends on local council regulations etc.
We sold our house in Kambalda 9 months ago, inspector came around and we had gone slightly further with a carport extension (built carport, patio, verandah) about 3 metres to the shed. As was up to scratch was no issue and probablly more lenient than nut cracker city inspectors.
Do not sign anything to take responsibility if buying. It is up to the owner / settlement agent to make sure everything is approved and on the plan. Check with local council as to the rules in your area.

[crump]

I have some young relos in NSW who are in the process of buying there fist home BUT after having the home inspected, the guy who did the job said that an owning fixed to the house had been approved to be built but had not had a council inspection done so there was no final approval of the structure.

So far, not to bad BUT today the relo’s solicitor, someone the real estate agent had arranged, asked the relos to come into their office and sign a stat dec saying that the owning on the house matched the plans, NOT SO GOOD.

I would have thought this was up to the solicitor to sort out with the current owner and the council.

Can anyone tell me if this is the norm or should the relos be doing something to protect themselves.

Cheers.

tell them to talk to the local building inspector from the shire the house is in, after all, he has the final say as to what is compliant with the regs and makes the approval on any structures within that region.

[barryj]

Been there done that. I usually ask for copies of approved plans and completion certificates before settlement. Problem these days is that the council does not do a final inspection. They have delegated this to private certifiers.

A good building inspector will usually advise if structures are built to appropriate standards\rules. In this case, did they have in the contract that the sale was dependent on the findings of a building inspector's report?

Even with the house I have now there is a carport that does not comply with regs. I picked up on this on the first inspection, the building inspector advised the same. I asked the owner through my solicitor for a copy of the approved plans and final inspection report. As well as this I went directly to the council and purchased plans and info from them on what has been approved for the property. All I got from the owner was plans drawn by a draftsman and approved by a certifier. No final inspection was done.

Come settlement day I did not have a final report so I asked my solicitor for advice. He pointed out that I could pull out of the sale but asked was it worth it? To rectify the building work would cost about $4,000 I guessed. He suggested that I go ahead with the sale and if the council ever picked up the problem then either demolish the carport or build it properly. In five years the property has doubled in value.

I pulled out on a previous sale due to a negative building inspector's report and that cost me around $2,000 all up to get out of the contract (reports and legal fees). To rectify issues found would have cost 10's of thousands if they could be done at all.

Options could be to weigh up what is best, pull out of the sale because of the awning and chuck away a couple of grand, or go ahead with the sale and rectify the awning as and when needed. Maybe ask the owner for a reduced price but unless the solicitor can scare them they may not.

Hope this helps as it is my experience with such issues. The council I referred to is Brisbane City Council, other councils may have different rules.

[Ken]

For your rellies to sign off as the plans match the extension or (Awning )
is in no way legal as all aprovals of structures built around initial house plans (must have ) council inspection with plans drawn up by an design architect then these plans must be aproved by said council

[Blknight.aus]

re-reading it all...

Might it just be a case of a paperwork loss or "forgot to get the final inpsection"..

makes sense if the plans the council have match up with reality (which would indicate that the mods have approval) but no record of the final inspection....

My house in townsivlle has the opposite. I have a final inspection notice, but no plans lodged with the council even though the final inspection cert lists the plan number and private builder numbers as issued by the council based on plans submitted to the council.

[CraigE]

Plans do not have to be an architect for most items / additions as long as measurements and materials are correct. Depending on your building inspector they will quite often help you with what is required. I did my own and the local council inspector reckons they were better than most proffessional building companies that build sheds, patios etc.


For your rellies to sign off as the plans match the extension or (Awning )
is in no way legal as all aprovals of structures built around initial house plans (must have ) council inspection with plans drawn up by an design architect then these plans must be aproved by said council

[landrovermick]

tell them not to sign anything.... the house will have to have the additions inspected by local council - if its simply a case of "forgot the final inspection" then they (the old owner) can get ot done.... my inlaws had a similar problem recently, they had to lift the ballistrades on the balcony 100mm, as the standard had changed in the last 20 years and the final inspection had not been done - if you change something and dodnt get the final inspection done then you are liabel to change it to current builging regs, some councils even make you deposit a holding fee until the final inspection is done - in the time specified for the additions alteratiosn to take place.

if the other party wont get the inpection done - tell them to walk away - its currently still (dont know for how much longer) a buyers market in NSW there are plenty of other places.....

[wardy1]

I'll come clean for a start....... I'm a Licensed Estate Agent...albeit in Vic.
(1)For an agent to arrange a solicitor in favour of the the PURCHASER is a direct conflict of interest based on the fact that they are employed by the vendor. (2) The solicitor is asking your relo's to sign away their rights (not sure where that is under NSW law but I KNOW its there. (3) If the extension/awning appears in the documentation for the property, it requires a permit.
Tell them to walk....... the worst that'll happen is they won't be stuck with a barrow load of grief. Send me a PM if you think I can help you more.... I HATE this ****

[barney]

time to walk, it's only a house and it's not worth putting your ar$e on the line for somebody else's stuff up.
on the other hand, if it's one of those "house of your dreams" type of situations, it might be time to be bold and name your price, and get the legalities of the awning sorted out by your own solicitor, mkae sure the one you get is on top of those sort of situations.
no good getting a divorce solicitor onto a real estate case.
good luck!

[Redback]

tell them not to sign anything.... the house will have to have the additions inspected by local council - if its simply a case of "forgot the final inspection" then they (the old owner) can get ot done.... my inlaws had a similar problem recently, they had to lift the ballistrades on the balcony 100mm, as the standard had changed in the last 20 years and the final inspection had not been done - if you change something and dodnt get the final inspection done then you are liabel to change it to current builging regs, some councils even make you deposit a holding fee until the final inspection is done - in the time specified for the additions alteratiosn to take place.

if the other party wont get the inpection done - tell them to walk away - its currently still (dont know for how much longer) a buyers market in NSW there are plenty of other places.....


time to walk, it's only a house and it's not worth putting your ar$e on the line for somebody else's stuff up.
on the other hand, if it's one of those "house of your dreams" type of situations, it might be time to be bold and name your price, and get the legalities of the awning sorted out by your own solicitor, mkae sure the one you get is on top of those sort of situations.
no good getting a divorce solicitor onto a real estate case.
good luck!


In NSW, you need council approval to put up a flagpole or even a shelter for the car - and I mean one of those cheap polytarp shelters.

No approval and you are liable for a $110,000 fine.!

Ron

As said by them, NSW is a strange place, don't sign anything untill the local council has approved it, it could cost you thousands after the sale if you don't.

Baz.

[barryj]

Don't forget that it's only an awning. They can always just remove the awning if challenged to do so.

Weigh up lost costs, legal, inspections, time, and not to mention they might have arranged to be out of their present house by a certain time (this might not be the case, not enough info given).

In my case I lost $2,000 when I pulled out of a contract. If their case is similar the awning (I asume it is only an awning and not too big) might not even be worth what they might have to pay to pull out of the contract.

Advise them to seek another solicitor if their's won't act on their behalf.

[Phoenix]

I have some young relos in NSW who are in the process of buying there fist home BUT after having the home inspected, the guy who did the job said that an owning fixed to the house had been approved to be built but had not had a council inspection done so there was no final approval of the structure.

So far, not to bad BUT today the relo’s solicitor, someone the real estate agent had arranged, asked the relos to come into their office and sign a stat dec saying that the owning on the house matched the plans, NOT SO GOOD.

I would have thought this was up to the solicitor to sort out with the current owner and the council.

Can anyone tell me if this is the norm or should the relos be doing something to protect themselves.

Cheers.

I presume we are talking about an awning here?? I'm probably in a good position to answer because i'm in conveyancing, plus do work for a lending institution, and my wife is a town planner at a coucil ;)

The awning not having had an inspection isn't a big deal. Basically get your rello's solicitors to tell the vendors solicitors to get the inspection done. If they signed a contract persuant to a satisfactory inspectio of the property they are well withing their rights to do so. we had the smae problem with our house. Big extra room with no council permits or permission at all :eek:

Don't sign the doc saying that the awning is the same as on the plans, they aren't qualified to say so, and they would be signing away their rights if they did so. Get it fixed, or walk away. I wouldn't even negotiate the price down, it's either fixed (properly) or no deal.