The MTF94 debate

[B92 8NW]

So many people claim MTF94 has been advised for use in Land Rover transmissions where ATF was originally used. From my research this is only in part correct. The amendment does not extend to LT77s.

If you have an LT77, MTF94 is NOT the correct stuff to use. Land Rover's TSB refers ONLY to R380 transmissions and the recommended lubricant for an LT77 always was and still is ATF to Ford M2C-33G spec (or Dexron dependant on manufacturer).

This can be verified by Land Rover and Caltex's TDS for MTF94 which states R380 only.

I've used MTF94 in my LT77 and it didnt take. It was impossible to engage second cold and all shifts felt notchy when hot. Penrite Light Gear Oil also caused the same problems for me.

I've just filled with synthetic ATF and at last the shifting is excellent. It's like driving a brand new Corolla:D. I read once that Transmax Z can't be used in the LT77. I don't believe this to be correct at all.

Anybody else had this success with Transmax Z or anything else?

PS. Tried to find Syntrans but couldnt find it anywhere.

[Michael2]

I concur.

I use Penrite Synthetic ATF in the LT77 and it shifts beautifully.

I tried Penrite Light Gear Oil about 6 years ago on a trip driving Melb - Perth - Melb and even once the box was warmed up running all day, gear shifts were still notchy.

[B92 8NW]

I concur.

I use Penrite Synthetic ATF in the LT77 and it shifts beautifully.

I tried Penrite Light Gear Oil about 6 years ago on a trip driving Melb - Perth - Melb and even once the box was warmed up running all day, gear shifts were still notchy.



Yes, I was looking for penrite synthetic ATF but my Local didnt have it:(.

How much ($) do you pay for how much (L)?

[87County]

around here one of us is using Penrite Light Gear Oil (for a R380) and one of us is using Caltex Syntrans ($20 per 1 litre bottle), for a Santana box. IMHO the Caltex Syntrans gives the best results so far ...

[101RRS]

The MTF advice was only for R380s not any other box.

Gazzz

[Michael2]

Yes, I was looking for penrite synthetic ATF but my Local didnt have it:(.

How much ($) do you pay for how much (L)?

It's around $30 for 4 litres.

According to the tech advise, it's more stable at high temps than light gear oil. So I'm using it in the R380 as well.

P.S. I buy it from the factory outlet in Havelock Rd, Bayswater, same street as Fred Smith Automotive, if you know them.

[Blknight.aus]

the R380 also runs ok on at5 which is the stuff we get at work to put in the bushmasters and also seems ok in the lt95.

[jik22]

PS. Tried to find Syntrans but couldnt find it anywhere.

Had the same problem, and in the end was given a tip to buy it from a LR dealer, but from the service dept dumped into my own container. Same for the Syntrax. Worked out far cheaper too, and fantastic difference in my R380!

[rick130]

and plenty of people have used a dedicated manual trans fluid and reported better shifting than an ATF in LT77's.
As JustinC posted recently, some R380's even appear to shift worse with MTF94 than ATF, and I've heard similar reports from drivers of other vehicles regarding various fluids in the same type of 'boxes.
The bottom line is that you will get better gear and bearing protection, particularly in summer with a dedicated synthetic MTF.
There's a fair difference in viscosity between most ATF's and MTF's at 100*C.

As I keep posting, lightweight MTF's weren't available when engine oils and ATF's were specified for manual gearboxes.

FWIW I have no problem procuring Syntrans, just bought another 2l today from a Castrol distributor, often seen it at Supercrap, too.

[B92 8NW]

It's around $30 for 4 litres.

According to the tech advise, it's more stable at high temps than light gear oil. So I'm using it in the R380 as well.

P.S. I buy it from the factory outlet in Havelock Rd, Bayswater, same street as Fred Smith Automotive, if you know them.


Thanks Michael.

I didn't know they sold direct to public from Bayswater. Learn something new everyday as they say :D. Its 3x cheaper than the Transmax Z for the same size.

[jimbo110]

This is the stuff I use. When i first put it in (in the summer) the shifting was very stiff and I thought I had done the wrong thing. After a couple of weeks the shifting started getting lighter, and has been getting progressively lighter ever since. Even now starting the day at -2 Deg C, the first shift of the day from 1-2 is a bit stiff, but fine after that, very smooth light changes. Very happy with the stuff.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/06/141.jpg

[Michael2]

This is the stuff I use. When i first put it in (in the summer) the shifting was very stiff and I thought I had done the wrong thing. After a couple of weeks the shifting started getting lighter, and has been getting progressively lighter ever since. Even now starting the day at -2 Deg C, the first shift of the day from 1-2 is a bit stiff, but fine after that, very smooth light changes. Very happy with the stuff.

I spoke to the tech guy at Penrite about the Light Gearbox Oil, with a view to using it in the R380 and the Synthetic ATF in the LT77. He advised that the Synthetic ATF would be more stable at high temps than the Light Gear Oil.

I accept Ricks comment about a Synthetic Light Gear oil being even better.

[camel_landy]

Sod the smoothness of the change, it's the condition of the bearings I'd be worried about!!!!

Although the spec says ATF for the LT77... I'd feel uneasy putting something sooo thin in there, especially knowing now what I know about the R380 & MTF.

M

[vnx205]

.... especially knowing now what I know about the R380 & MTF.M
What do you know now?

[rick130]

What do you know now?

that the R380 lasts a lot longer with a dedicated MTF, particularly when used from new

[vnx205]

that the R380 lasts a lot longer with a dedicated MTF, particularly when used from new
Thanks.
I must be naturally paranoid or pessimistic. My initial reaction was that the comment "knowing now what I know" meant there was some problem with R380 and MTF.

[Michael2]

Sod the smoothness of the change, it's the condition of the bearings I'd be worried about!!!!

Although the spec says ATF for the LT77... I'd feel uneasy putting something sooo thin in there, especially knowing now what I know about the R380 & MTF.

M

When I rebuilt the LT77 I got to have a good look inside. A lot of the bearings are roller pin bearings along the shafts and these are lubricated through pin sized oil galleries. These bearings don't have a lot of strength in themselves and need to be well lubricated. The gearbox has a pump which pumps the oil along these galleries. Given that, I think that a light synthetic oil with better high temp stability would be the best oil for these boxes. It's just so different to the series box where you could just about run grease.

[HangOver]

the R380 also runs ok on at5 which is the stuff we get at work to put in the bushmasters and also seems ok in the lt95.

at5 ? or was that a typo?

[MacMan]

I spoke to the tech guy at Penrite about the Light Gearbox Oil, with a view to using it in the R380 and the Synthetic ATF in the LT77. He advised that the Synthetic ATF would be more stable at high temps than the Light Gear Oil.

I accept Ricks comment about a Synthetic Light Gear oil being even better.


Either it's a new tech guy, or the same guy doesn't know the real answer, or he's decided to bugger one of us up because I asked him that and was told the 75W-80 Manual Gear Oil was the go for my LT77. Been using it for two years and 40,000km. Cold shifts are slow and baulky but I NEVER force it to play if it doesn't want to. Double clutching solves the slow synchro problem. Once warm it's beautiful. The previosus owner's garage used Valvoline Duragear and even though the fluid was not filthy when I dropped it, the Penrite has always been better.

[Michael2]

Either it's a new tech guy, or the same guy doesn't know the real answer, or he's decided to bugger one of us up because I asked him that and was told the 75W-80 Manual Gear Oil was the go for my LT77. Been using it for two years and 40,000km. Cold shifts are slow and baulky but I NEVER force it to play if it doesn't want to. Double clutching solves the slow synchro problem. Once warm it's beautiful. The previosus owner's garage used Valvoline Duragear and even though the fluid was not filthy when I dropped it, the Penrite has always been better.

If you ask for an oil for the LT77 or R380, they'll recommend the Light Gear Oil. If you ask them which would be better given the fine oil galleries, the baulking & that they originally specified ATF, then they'll tell you the Synthetic ATF will out-perform the Light Gear Oil under extreme heat. I've had the conversation with the original owner (late) Mr Diamond, and the current guy behind the counter.

I purposely sought a couple of opinions, as I didn't want to make a poor choice.

At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong with the Light Gear Oil, but in my case, having found it too thick in the LT77 it seems I can standardise my lubricants inventory and use it on the R380 as well.

[MacMan]

Interesting!

[Kandy]

So many people claim MTF94 has been advised for use in Land Rover transmissions where ATF was originally used. From my research this is only in part correct. The amendment does not extend to LT77s.

If you have an LT77, MTF94 is NOT the correct stuff to use. Land Rover's TSB refers ONLY to R380 transmissions and the recommended lubricant for an LT77 always was and still is ATF to Ford M2C-33G spec (or Dexron dependant on manufacturer).

This can be verified by Land Rover and Caltex's TDS for MTF94 which states R380 only.

I've used MTF94 in my LT77 and it didnt take. It was impossible to engage second cold and all shifts felt notchy when hot. Penrite Light Gear Oil also caused the same problems for me.

I've just filled with synthetic ATF and at last the shifting is excellent. It's like driving a brand new Corolla:D. I read once that Transmax Z can't be used in the LT77. I don't believe this to be correct at all.

Anybody else had this success with Transmax Z or anything else?

PS. Tried to find Syntrans but couldnt find it anywhere.

The ATF DEXTRON 11 was the original spec.for the LT77 so that the thinner oil would reach the vitals of the box, hence one of its design failings. When I first bought my 200tdi the box felt and sounded fine and it had ATF Dextron111 but in the Landrover learning curve apparently an ATF wont reduce wear as well soooo out with ATF and in with various other oils-- Transmax Z, noooo good sticky as , Penrite,on advice,Syn10/10 nooo,better in the transfer case . Redline MTL- yesss very good and I never tried the Syntrans. What synthetic ATF are you using because in my experience brands/manufacturers are as important as viscosities.:)

[rick130]

<snip>because in my experience brands/manufacturers are as important as viscosities.:)



good point, and one I forgot to make earlier.
Viscosity is but one factor in synchro performance, friction modification is the other major factor and the reason why two or three oils of close to identical viscosities perform differently in a given gearbox.
Unfortunately it ends up being a case of try and see until you find the combination you prefer.

[PAT303]

I have recently posted my problems with oil in my R380,after 9 years with ATF I then changed after advice from this forum and the box doesn't like it.I am no expert on oils but do know that after 364,000klms without touching it in any way that ATF must be doing it's job.Alot of people are getting rebuilds before that and I like the fact that the fluid is very thin so it gets everywhere fast.The truck gets used everyday and works for it's living so it's not pampered. Pat