a few GPS questions

[DassaW]

Hi guys, new to this side of GPS's, just wanted to ask a few questions.

What would be the best set up for 4wding and gps navigation? Am i best off getting a handheld, like etrex, or utilise a laptop?

Not sure how to set up a laptop to be used as a gps, guess i would need the software (oziexplorer?) and a gps mouse? but does that mean I dont need an actual GPS unit?

Laptops can then be relayed to a screen on the dash which shows our location on a contour map with tracks??

I m just trying to get my head around it at the moment. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Bush65]

I use a laptop and gps mouse.

My laptop fits on a ram mount (good units). The gps mouse is fixed inside the snorkel head. The gps mouse has a usb interface, so gets its power from the laptop. A dc/dc converter powers the laptop from the cig lighter.

I run oziexplorer for mapping software.

I find the topo maps on the laptop screen much better than the gps recievers I used before. I need glasses for reading, and had to put them on to use the gps, but can use the laptop while driving.

Having a touchscreen is also good for in car use.

[DassaW]

ok, that sounds like a good setup, fairly cost effective if you already have a laptop. Can the touchscreen be hooked into the laptop? so your not actually using your laptop screen?
Whatis this ram mount you are talking about?
Cheers

[feral]

I have the same setup as Bush65. My laptop is under the drivers seat, out of the way and run it through a 10.4" touch screen. Using a usb mouse which is wedged between the dash and windscreen works perfectly.

I have Oziexplorer, Nat Maps DVD, UBD Australian City Streets 4 and UBD Regional Cities & Towns 3. This setup is for touring.

The 'Ram Mount' is a pedestal tripod frame which bolts to the floor of your vehicle. It has an adjustable mount at the top to rotate your laptop to any position you want. Very good piece of kit but very expensive. It appears to be a permanent solution too. You can remove your laptop quickly but so can anyone else. One of the good reasons to have your lappy under the seat.

Cheers.

[CraigE]

I have the laptop under the back seat and an 8" monitor on the dash, runs no problem. Utilising Trackranger and gps mouse (no gps unit as such required).
The screen is supposed to be touch screen but have had a hard time getting it to work as a touch screen (disc supplied) anyone have any thoughts?? Will be hooking up a reverse camera next.
Dont mean to hijack this thread.

[HangOver]

What would be the best set up for 4wding and gps navigation? Am i best off getting a handheld, like etrex, or utilise a laptop?
If you have a laptop it can be used as long as you dont mind it getting bumped about or maybe look at a dedicated "carputer".
The off the shelf gps systems are pretty rubbish IMHO unless you can add your own maps. Some pda's and handhelds are good but again you would need to find one that you can add maps to. Most off the shelf give you gazzeted roads only.

Not sure how to set up a laptop to be used as a gps, guess i would need the software (oziexplorer?) and a gps mouse? but does that mean I dont need an actual GPS unit?
yes you need a GPS reciever, usb mouse, bluetooth (no wires) take your pick.
I bought a bluetooth unit from ebay that's runs on battery and solar so no wires at all and 30hrs per charge. $100ish works outside and in. the only time I have lost a fix was going through a tunnel. can't praise it enough.

Laptops can then be relayed to a screen on the dash which shows our location on a contour map with tracks??
yes, they can be connected to a dash mounted screen by the VGA out on the laptop, some also use s-video. Make sure what ever connection your laptop has your dash mount screen needs the same input.
With a laptop the maps are as good as what ever maps you use.
You can buy them, scan them from a book, scam them from elsewhere ;)

[HangOver]

I have the laptop under the back seat and an 8" monitor on the dash, runs no problem. Utilising Trackranger and gps mouse (no gps unit as such required).
The screen is supposed to be touch screen but have had a hard time getting it to work as a touch screen (disc supplied) anyone have any thoughts?? Will be hooking up a reverse camera next.
Dont mean to hijack this thread.

touch screens usually need a connection to the laptop via usb cable or older ones serial cable, do you have one?

[HangOver]

Can the touchscreen be hooked into the laptop? so your not actually using your laptop screen?

yes it can, buy a new touchscreen and you should get all the drivers and cables you need. The newer ones come with remote controls too.

[Franz]

I have the same setup as Bush65. My laptop is under the drivers seat, out of the way and run it through a 10.4" touch screen. Using a usb mouse which is wedged between the dash and windscreen works perfectly.

I have Oziexplorer, Nat Maps DVD, UBD Australian City Streets 4 and UBD Regional Cities & Towns 3. This setup is for touring.

The 'Ram Mount' is a pedestal tripod frame which bolts to the floor of your vehicle. It has an adjustable mount at the top to rotate your laptop to any position you want. Very good piece of kit but very expensive. It appears to be a permanent solution too. You can remove your laptop quickly but so can anyone else. One of the good reasons to have your lappy under the seat.

Cheers.
Do you have any pics of the Ram laptop mount in the vehicle - I have been looking at them but have not purchased yet as I was not sure how well they fit - how much they obscure etc.

Any pics would be most helpful - TIA

[Blknight.aus]

What would be the best set up for 4wding and gps navigation? Am i best off getting a handheld, like etrex, or utilise a laptop?
If you have a laptop it can be used as long as you dont mind it getting bumped about or maybe look at a dedicated "carputer".
The off the shelf gps systems are pretty rubbish IMHO unless you can add your own maps. Some pda's and handhelds are good but again you would need to find one that you can add maps to. Most off the shelf give you gazzeted roads only.

Get one that is a PDA first and a GPS second. Ive had a mio digiwalker 168 and now a mio digiwalker a701 both run ozi wihtou any problems that arent already acknowlodged on the ozi site. the a701 can also set up as a bluetooth/usb gps if you need it AND its a tri band gsm mobile phone as well




Not sure how to set up a laptop to be used as a gps, guess i would need the software (oziexplorer?) and a gps mouse? but does that mean I dont need an actual GPS unit?
yes you need a GPS reciever, usb mouse, bluetooth (no wires) take your pick.
I bought a bluetooth unit from ebay that's runs on battery and solar so no wires at all and 30hrs per charge. $100ish works outside and in. the only time I have lost a fix was going through a tunnel. can't praise it enough.



Laptops can then be relayed to a screen on the dash which shows our location on a contour map with tracks??
yes, they can be connected to a dash mounted screen by the VGA out on the laptop, some also use s-video. Make sure what ever connection your laptop has your dash mount screen needs the same input.
With a laptop the maps are as good as what ever maps you use.
You can buy them, scan them from a book, scam them from elsewhere ;)

some laptops dont have the greatst USB setups and dont like to read more than 1 device at a time, If you have a GPS unit in one port so long as it is "Talking" on the usb interface nothing else will, This problem is exasperated if you use the cheapo versions of the 4 port usb hubs and plug everything out of that. If its possable Setup one to the 9 pin serial port on the back of the laptop as that will generally have a higher priority for data than the USB ports and if its a decent port will have a buffer for when the CPU cant talk to the port.

[Michael2]

A USB mouse is very convenient, but if you pick up a handheld GPS like a cheap etrex, you can still connect it to the computer and use it on foot when required.

A handy place to place the GPS reciever on a Land Rover is in the alpine light (side sky light). It tucks in and gets a good view of the sky.

[CraigE]

Currently using a VGA cable (I think it is called) from puter to screen. Maybe a USB is the reason, the screen has a usb cable on it as well. Would need a usb hub?? as gps mouse is one usb and track ouse the other although could do away with track mouse I suppose. If I use a usb cable will this be in addition to the VGA cable or instead of??
Thanks

touch screens usually need a connection to the laptop via usb cable or older ones serial cable, do you have one?

[CraigE]

Try the Trackranger website (google search) Advancetech I think from memory and they have package deals should ou decide to go the laptop route for software and GPS mouse.

[Xtreme]

Are the laptops being mentioned on this thread the standard ones with a hinged screen? I understand that, due to vibrations, these don't last very long in a 4WD situation.

Or are we talking about tablet computers with a touch screen?

Or maybe better still, a touch screen mounted upfront with the CPU tucked away in a sealed box somewhere?

I would like to enhance my system but am undecided as to which 'track' to take so would appreciate advice from those more experienced in these matters.

[HangOver]

Get one that is a PDA first and a GPS second. Ive had a mio digiwalker 168 and now a mio digiwalker a701 both run ozi wihtou any problems that arent already acknowlodged on the ozi site. the a701 can also set up as a bluetooth/usb gps if you need it AND its a tri band gsm mobile phone as well

Like I said if you can get one that can use it's own maps great. I have a PDA/phone running TOMTOM but apparently you can't add your own maps :-(
It's faultless around the town though.



some laptops dont have the greatst USB setups and dont like to read more than 1 device at a time, If you have a GPS unit in one port so long as it is "Talking" on the usb interface nothing else will,
Maybe some; I have a laptop that I have used my gps reciever on (USB bluetooth reciever on the laptop) I also run a USB Mouse, fan and external HDD. It works fine. Shouldn't really be an issue if used on different USB ports.




This problem is exasperated if you use the cheapo versions of the 4 port usb hubs and plug everything out of that.
The problem with using USB hubs is that most of them are not powered. A USB port was only really designed to power one device, (more or less). If you run 3 things that do not require USB power eg x3 printers (how ever unlikely) and one powered USB drive all should be well. If you run x3 or x4 items that require power ie mouse, HDD etc from a single port (via a hub) you may get problems. This of course will depend on the power draw of each item at a particular time. So for home, (not in car) buy powered hubs.
If you really wanted to you could use a non powered hub and split the USB cable to power it via external 12v source, I have done it once but it looks a bit dodgy :D



If its possable Setup one to the 9 pin serial port on the back of the laptop as that will generally have a higher priority for data than the USB ports and if its a decent port will have a buffer for when the CPU cant talk to the port.
Traditionaly serial ports are more reliable than USB as some OS's (like XP) loose the USB drivers now and again, so best to keep your drivers handy on your car-pc/laptop if you had one.
As for priority; USB still works the same way that legacy equipment does in that it has an IRQ issued to it which it uses to get processor time the same way a serial port does. One IRQ does not by default get priority over another however it can be given priority via a registry hack which you should not do unless you know how already, (IMHO).

[HangOver]

Currently using a VGA cable (I think it is called) from puter to screen. Maybe a USB is the reason, the screen has a usb cable on it as well. Would need a usb hub?? as gps mouse is one usb and track ouse the other although could do away with track mouse I suppose. If I use a usb cable will this be in addition to the VGA cable or instead of??
Thanks

It would be in addition to.
The VGA cable sends the video image to the screen but you need a method of returning input from your touch screen to your laptop, this is where you use the USB cable is used. That way you won't need you mouse/trackball.

[Blknight.aus]

Like I said if you can get one that can use it's own maps great. I have a PDA/phone running TOMTOM but apparently you can't add your own maps :-(
It's faultless around the town though.


Not sure about the tom tom software but if its got a sd card reader on it and its a proper PDA not one of the cheaper navman types then you can quite easily add your own maps or other mapping software. AFAIK the $500+ tom tom units can do this, the one that my old sparky has took ozi in a heart beat



Traditionaly serial ports are more reliable than USB as some OS's (like XP) loose the USB drivers now and again, so best to keep your drivers handy on your car-pc/laptop if you had one.
As for priority; USB still works the same way that legacy equipment does in that it has an IRQ issued to it which it uses to get processor time the same way a serial port does. One IRQ does not by default get priority over another however it can be given priority via a registry hack which you should not do unless you know how already, (IMHO).

In the windows world (other peoples installs and laptops may differ) a REAL serial port (14470 uart types) not an emulated serial port has priority over USB you can still use the serial port in safe mode and even in command prompt mode if it all turns to poo whereas the USB's need drivers and access to processor time to function correctly (be it decicated on card processor time or CPU time) which is why I find the serial port a better option for "its got to work" type gear.

on the USB congestion note, Re-reading my post I wasnt as clear as I should have been... Cheap laptops generally only have one usb port and the second/thrid ones are just essentially hubbed off of that. Good laptops will have at least 2 dedicated USB ports and if they have more than the one set of usb connectors the manual should tell you what ones are hanging off of what ports. Try plugging a GPS reciever, mouse, and HD off of a cheap USB1.0 port on a hub and see what happens...

[HangOver]

Not sure about the tom tom software but if its got a sd card reader on it and its a proper PDA
maybe I'll look at different software ...........eventually
but them maybe I'll keep the tom tom coz when I eventually get off road again I should have my carputer fixed up.



which is why I find the serial port a better option for "its got to work" type gear.
given that scenario I suppose you are correct for reliability.
A USB port can be accessed in DOS mode < (showing my age, ahem, ;) command prompt) still needs drivers though, but not safe mode.
I don't want to thread hijack but do you have a link or someting describing how/why serial has priority over USB? I would be interested as I can't think how/why that would work or be neccessary.[/quote]



Cheap laptops generally only have one usb port and the second/thrid ones are just essentially hubbed off of that. Good laptops will have at least 2 dedicated USB ports and if they have more than the one set of usb connectors the manual should tell you what ones are hanging off of what ports. Try plugging a GPS reciever, mouse, and HD off of a cheap USB1.0 port on a hub and see what happens

I'm glad I have a newer laptop :D 1 USB port !
Still not convinced about using a serial mouse though, it's another wire to hide, I prefer a bluetooth solution.
When I eventually get around to making my carputer, (I have all the bits now) I am going to ghost the HDD and take a spare with me so if the OS does die it's a 2 min job and your back up again.

So what was this thread about again????:D:D

[Bush65]

Do you have any pics of the Ram laptop mount in the vehicle - I have been looking at them but have not purchased yet as I was not sure how well they fit - how much they obscure etc.

Any pics would be most helpful - TIA
Here you go. Poor quality i'm afraid - just taken in the dark so camera could not focus.

One shows where the laptop sits. The far side telescopes out against a spring and the 4 jaws hold the laptop securely. The brace at the rear clips over the top of the screen as a precaution.

Another pics shows 2 of the 3 mounting legs. With my set-up, one is bolted through the transmission hump beside the seat rail, one to the floor, next to the transmission hump. The 3rd, which can't be seen, bolts to a flat bar that I screwed to the transmission hump, between the gear lever and hi/low lever, under the plastic console. The legs are 1/2" dia round aluminium bar. The bar is easy to bend to suit and then cut to required length - plastic conduit is cosmetic cover. The usb cable visible in this photo comes from the gps mouse. The other cable around one of the legs is power to the laptop.

The other pic shows the adjustment under the laptop base. The piece at the top of the 3 legs, has a rubber coated ball. A similar ball is fixed to the underside of the laptop base. The clam between the 2 balls allows adjustment of the height, angle and rotation. Hand tightening the wing screw holds it secure. When not needed the laptop base can be removed in seconds, leaving just the lower ball and 3 legs.

[Bush65]

ok, that sounds like a good setup, fairly cost effective if you already have a laptop. Can the touchscreen be hooked into the laptop? so your not actually using your laptop screen?
Whatis this ram mount you are talking about?
Cheers
Sorry for any confusion. My laptop has a touch screen. I meant the comment for anyone who was contemplating getting a laptop.

As others have replied another option is to run a separate touch screen from the vga or s-video port of the laptop.

I like the convenience of access to the laptop keyboard, for saving track logs etc.

But I can appreciate the advantage of having the laptop away from prying eyes. And just having the screen gets back the space around the gear lever.

[DassaW]

OK thanks for all the good info guys.

Not sure what Ill do now. What sort of price are we looking at for, laptop, touchscreen, gps mouse and software?
considering im on a budget at the moment may just need to go for a etrex legend or similar for now.

Cheers

[Franz]

Here you go. Poor quality i'm afraid - just taken in the dark so camera could not focus.

One shows where the laptop sits. The far side telescopes out against a spring and the 4 jaws hold the laptop securely. The brace at the rear clips over the top of the screen as a precaution.

Another pics shows 2 of the 3 mounting legs. With my set-up, one is bolted through the transmission hump beside the seat rail, one to the floor, next to the transmission hump. The 3rd, which can't be seen, bolts to a flat bar that I screwed to the transmission hump, between the gear lever and hi/low lever, under the plastic console. The legs are 1/2" dia round aluminium bar. The bar is easy to bend to suit and then cut to required length - plastic conduit is cosmetic cover. The usb cable visible in this photo comes from the gps mouse. The other cable around one of the legs is power to the laptop.

The other pic shows the adjustment under the laptop base. The piece at the top of the 3 legs, has a rubber coated ball. A similar ball is fixed to the underside of the laptop base. The clam between the 2 balls allows adjustment of the height, angle and rotation. Hand tightening the wing screw holds it secure. When not needed the laptop base can be removed in seconds, leaving just the lower ball and 3 legs.
Thanks John. That looks like a great setup.

Was it not possible to attach two of the legs to the seat mounts and only drill one hole in the transmission tunnel for the third? I like to drill as few holes as possible in my vehicle.

Cheers,

[Timmo]

I have an eTrex Legend C, which i use with a windscreen suction cup mount. Have uploaded Melbourne city maps to it, so it can direct me around town, but can't talk. Hardly ever use that.

When I am going out of town I upload route files from my mac using MacGPS Pro and the Natmap Raster maps. These are just displayed on the inbuilt base map in the gps unit, which is enough for me.

The advantage of this unit is that i can use it boating, flying, hiking or whatever.

[loanrangie]

OK thanks for all the good info guys.

Not sure what Ill do now. What sort of price are we looking at for, laptop, touchscreen, gps mouse and software?
considering im on a budget at the moment may just need to go for a etrex legend or similar for now.

Cheers

For $200 -$300 i'd go with a pda/gps setp, heaps of pda;s on ebay for cheap prices.

[Michael2]

I noticed that the new NOKIA phone being advertised has GPS and mapping (probably SENSIS).

I don't know if you can link it to your laptop (Bluetooth or Cable) and extract only the GPS data, but it may be worth investigating. Especially if the GPS / Navigation mode is inbuilt & doesn't require access to the mobile network. Also if a phone is a work related expense, it may be financially better to get the phone with the GPS feature.

Just another option.

[Blknight.aus]

the nokia ones and the ones that are a phone first and gps second use the GSM network towers for triangulation as opposed to the satelites that the proper GPS units use.

To identify a Phone first/gps second unit from a gps first phone second unit read the docs and/or the box, if it doenst say SRIFIII GPS antenna/module as the GPS reciever its a phone first and a GPS second.

Whats the difference?

You pay for the triangulation service on some systems (not telstra currently) and if you go out of phone coverage your GPS is useless. Its also not as accurate being only able to achieve a maximum DOP of 5mish as opposed to current GPS's being <1m.