M and S lights!!!

[WildOne]

Drove the Disco out of the shed last night, parked it for a few hours (busy fabricating a roof rack for it) and on starting it up again got the M and S lights flashing as a greeting!!!!
Now, is my Disco just ****ed off that i left her out in the cold for awhile or is there, and i suspect there is, more i should check.
My handbook says to seek expert attension from LR asap which sounds to me to be an expensive option.
What should i check?

[Redback]

Drove the Disco out of the shed last night, parked it for a few hours (busy fabricating a roof rack for it) and on starting it up again got the M and S lights flashing as a greeting!!!!
Now, is my Disco just ****ed off that i left her out in the cold for awhile or is there, and i suspect there is, more i should check.
My handbook says to seek expert attension from LR asap which sounds to me to be an expensive option.
What should i check?

What are M & S lights:confused:

[5teve]

Phil you have somehow locked the gearbox into limp mode so it only uses 3rd gear.. i did it a while ago and promptly sh*t myself!

apparently i must of done something when starting it (ie not quite in park or something wierd like that) that triggered it... just turn the engine off.. lock the car.. walk away.. come back about 30 mins later.. all should be good

if not then i think it indicates an electrical fault with the gearbox

i'll keep my fingers crossed its the first!

ps the M & S lights are for manual and sports mode driven by the mode button on the rear of the gear change housing..

Thanks

Steve

[ak]

Phil you have somehow locked the gearbox into limp mode so it only uses 3rd gear.. i did it a while ago and promptly sh*t myself!

apparently i must of done something when starting it (ie not quite in park or something wierd like that) that triggered it... just turn the engine off.. lock the car.. walk away.. come back about 30 mins later.. all should be good

if not then i think it indicates an electrical fault with the gearbox

i'll keep my fingers crossed its the first!

ps the M & S lights are for manual and sports mode driven by the mode button on the rear of the gear change housing..

Thanks

Steve

I had the exact same thing a few weeks ago only lasted the morning. Never came back turned out to be low voltage cleaned battery terminals and all should be good and you may need to get the fault code cleared.

[FenianEel]

It is a common thing, with some D2 autos
If it is nothing serious (which is most instances), it will reset itself.
1. Turn the vehicle off, then turn it back on.
if this doesn't work...
2. Lock it with the keyfob, wait a few ticks, then unlock.
if this doesn't work...
3. Turn it off, lock it wait a few minutes

It can happen like a gremlin out of nowhere, or if you move through the gears too quick on start up, or have it between gears etc.

[WildOne]

Phil you have somehow locked the gearbox into limp mode so it only uses 3rd gear.. i did it a while ago and promptly sh*t myself!

apparently i must of done something when starting it (ie not quite in park or something wierd like that) that triggered it... just turn the engine off.. lock the car.. walk away.. come back about 30 mins later.. all should be good

if not then i think it indicates an electrical fault with the gearbox

i'll keep my fingers crossed its the first!

ps the M & S lights are for manual and sports mode driven by the mode button on the rear of the gear change housing..

Thanks

Steve

Just been out to start her up (the Disco that is) and all seems fine, the same thing happened two days after i bought it and a sh*t meself then, thinking i'd bought a lemon. As with now the problem has cleared itself. As mentioed by AK i might clean the battery terminals and make sure all visible wiring terminals are tight.

Are there any sensors or switches on the transmission (auto) that could be faulty? And can fault codes be cleared without going to LR?

[AndyRevill]

I've had this happen a few times - generally when I've turned the key, waited for the glow plug light to go out and then not started the car straight away (got distracted by the kids). Turning off for a few seconds has always cleared it.

Andy

[5teve]

i think gearbox faults are not logged in the ECU.. could be wrong tho.. but it shouldnt affect anything once its gone away.. its not like it sets it in a permanent safe mode or anything!

Thanks

Steve

[Redback]

Will someone please tell me what M & S lights are:spudnikwhat:

[ladas]

Will someone please tell me what M & S lights are:spudnikwhat:

Manual and Sports mode on the Auto box.;)

[FenianEel]

Will someone please tell me what M & S lights are:spudnikwhat:

It's only with auto's and there's a 'manual' mode and 'sports' mode.
There is 'sports' mode button on the rear of the gear selector console, bit like an overdrive button, allows the engine to rev our a bit more.

There are two green lights with an M and an S in the middle of a green circle with cogs on it, on the dash. The S comes on when in sports mode.

When they both come on and stay on, the car goes into limp home mode and you can't change up and down the forwards gears.

[Redback]

Manual and Sports mode on the Auto box.;)


It's only with auto's and there's a 'manual' mode and 'sports' mode.
There is 'sports' mode button on the rear of the gear selector console, bit like an overdrive button, allows the engine to rev our a bit more.

There are two green lights with an M and an S in the middle of a green circle with cogs on it, on the dash. The S comes on when in sports mode.

When they both come on and stay on, the car goes into limp home mode and you can't change up and down the forwards gears.

Thanks:thumbsup:

[5teve]

Will someone please tell me what M & S lights are:spudnikwhat:

i already had but you ignored me :confused:

:D

Steve

[BradM]

Hi,
Try these two..hopefully they may help as I well and treuly pulled my hair out on the M&S Lights.

Under the centre console are a couple of main earthing points which can be accessed by removing the rear ash tray. These may be loose enough to cause the problem..try tightening them.

Also the sensor on the side of the gearbox..It gets dripped on by the outlet for the aircondinioning..corrodes and can intermittantly cause the lights to come on.

On my 2000 TD5 Disco the airconditioning sensor was the culprit. On my MY2003 it was the earth points.

Landrover electricals.mmmm..could be something else altogether but usually electrical problem upsetting the gearbox computer.

[WildOne]

Thanks for the pointers on what to look out for, will add this to the already long list of "things to do". Might get onto it now............
...........or i could go for a parma and pot.......

[MarknDeb]

We had it happen heaps when we first got the car, Austral did several checks and couldnt find anything, they put in some updates, still got it, in the end they told us all they could **** out was it could be us turning it on too fast IE like starting a petrol, we have changed our habbits and wait till the glow light goes out and starts all the time now and haven't had the lights flash at us since.

Another trick with the M & S button, when in low range and push to S mode she becomes a manual, you have to change gears from first to what ever, it has come in handy a couple of times off road for me

[Ben_R]

Hi, I've had the M&S lights come on in mine too, its happened a few times now.

Only had it happen on hard acceleration up hill at hwy speeds, i.e. foot to the floor to overtake uphill, eg: powering out of the Burnley Tunnel into the 100km zone (uphill). Never happened in low range offroad, foot to the floor either. Only hwy speeds (70 -110kms). Stop car, turn off, turn on again after a few seconds, all is fine.

As my Disco is chipped and has an upgraded intercooler, I took these lights to mean I was overstressing the auto box with too much power and I should ease off. I just have to make sure I don't give it too much when overtaking up a hill!

cheers Ben

[stevo]

Ben, mine does the same thing it can happen when there is to much grunt going into the box I do not know how it reads this

[DiscoTDI]

My D2 used to enjoy doing that to me after I reversed out of the driveway and then put it in drive, can be a hair raising experience. Mine had a problem with the sensor, LR replaced it 4 times then replaced the ECU, after that it only happened occasionally;)

[sniegy]

I had my M & S lights come on in the most appropriate spot:mad: & that was going across the Simpson, It did it all the way to Alice Springs.
Lots of fun & a very dissapointing fuel economy run as well as it was locked in third most the way..:(
In the end i found 2 faults, both logged in the Auto trans ECU,
1. being the XYZ switch (gearbox position switch) that is located on the l/h/s of the box &
2. being the wiring loom atop the transfer box, there is a metal "P" clip that holds the wiring, my loom had chaffed 2 wires straight through & was connecting/disconnecting while held together in the loom.

Matter of replacing switch, removing loom from vehicle & re-soldering & all is good. Except when i plant the foot sometimes over boost & stress the box. Still its fun with the chip & cooler...Mmmm;):p

[Freoway]

Am dealing with same issue. Initially these lights would come on intermittently (once every week or two), then more regularly. Each time, the transmission would go into limp home mode (top gear). Usually cleared when ignition switched off and on. Now it's on all the time. 3 known causes - faulty inhibitor switch, loose bolt on transmission or oil in the ECU interface plug. Now the problem with mine is, it's none of these. I suspect a faulty transmission - as the shift from 1st to 2nd was always a bit slow and harsh. This is with a 2003MY TD5 Disco. Car is now with transmission specialist after Land Rover agent couldn't identify problem. The Transmission specialist said that this problem could come from anywhere in the car!!! A faulty earth, you name it. I don't believe that. It doesn't make sense if that's the case. I'm ****ed off big time, as this car is now out of order! Cheers, Lloyd

[ak]

Am dealing with same issue. Initially these lights would come on intermittently (once every week or two), then more regularly. Each time, the transmission would go into limp home mode (top gear). Usually cleared when ignition switched off and on. Now it's on all the time. 3 known causes - faulty inhibitor switch, loose bolt on transmission or oil in the ECU interface plug. Now the problem with mine is, it's none of these. I suspect a faulty transmission - as the shift from 1st to 2nd was always a bit slow and harsh. This is with a 2003MY TD5 Disco. Car is now with transmission specialist after Land Rover agent couldn't identify problem. The Transmission specialist said that this problem could come from anywhere in the car!!! A faulty earth, you name it. I don't believe that. It doesn't make sense if that's the case. I'm ****ed off big time, as this car is now out of order! Cheers, Lloyd

It could be just your battery is on the way out. That's what is was with mine. Get your battery tested first before for spend big money on something else which it may not be.

[ak]

Where are you? Depending on where you are someone here should be able to recommend a good Landie mechanic to sort it for you. Not all mechanics know Landies that well even if they do claim to be a Landie agent. Hope this helps.

[2 rocks]

[QUOTE=BradM;558744]Hi,
Try these two..hopefully they may help as I well and treuly pulled my hair out on the M&S Lights.
Under the centre console are a couple of main earthing points which can be accessed by removing the rear ash tray. These may be loose enough to cause the problem..try tightening them.
Also the sensor on the side of the gearbox..It gets dripped on by the outlet for the aircondinioning..corrodes and can intermittantly cause the lights to come on.
On my 2000 TD5 Disco the airconditioning sensor was the culprit. On my MY2003 it was the earth points.
QUOTE]

Sorry to resurrect this...but...this is happening to me a lot, especially in reversing then going to D, parallel parking etc...and frankly it is a PITA. Stop, turn off, restart...then all good.

Does anyone have bona fide solution for this (i've been told to put up with it - i'd rather put a manual in if I can't fix it!). I've got no rear ashtray as it's now an infra red sender for a DVD player.

Drivin' me f-mad!
Mike

[duff]

One pain in the asss if you are trying to squeeze heaps a power out of a TD5 auto,, is that no matter what you do with mods,, the gearbox will tell the engine to stop developing torque beyond X amount.

I would say that if you have both chip and bigger intercooler you are probably pushing the limits of your gearbox and it is self protecting. The V8 has a stronger auto and the GBox ECU maps differently.

Perhaps :)

AND... I think the m+s lights have a secret mission to act as a schitty battery warning as a second function..replaced my batt twice so far, each time the lights started to appear on and off for a few weeks before hand


Hi, I've had the M&S lights come on in mine too, its happened a few times now.

Only had it happen on hard acceleration up hill at hwy speeds, i.e. foot to the floor to overtake uphill, eg: powering out of the Burnley Tunnel into the 100km zone (uphill). Never happened in low range offroad, foot to the floor either. Only hwy speeds (70 -110kms). Stop car, turn off, turn on again after a few seconds, all is fine.

As my Disco is chipped and has an upgraded intercooler, I took these lights to mean I was overstressing the auto box with too much power and I should ease off. I just have to make sure I don't give it too much when overtaking up a hill!

cheers Ben

[mrapocalypse]

i had this very same thing in my Dii V8. I put it on a truck and sent it to Alto, Dollar signs appeared in their eyes when they said it was a faulty gearbox ECU! $1600 thanks, but then replaced on warranty. Nice Land Rover.

it did fix itself while driving up onto tow truck next day but hey, a new ECU is a new ECU!

Make sure fluid levels are ok in your tranny too! Mine was leaking from the sump pan in the Gearbox and i think this had something to do with it!

[2 rocks]

Cheers
Recent full service, so tranny levels ok. Maybe it is the battery - wonder which one, lol?
Might have to try to get under the console for a look at those earths...

Mike

[tombraider]

Cheers
Recent full service, so tranny levels ok. Maybe it is the battery - wonder which one, lol?
Might have to try to get under the console for a look at those earths...

Mike

Dont bet on it!

Check the plugs where the AC drips onto them!

[BradM]

I second that.

BradM

[PhilipA]

M&S lights actually stand for Masochist and Sadist lights.
You are the masochist for buying a Disco and Land Rover are the Sadists for under developing the car and putting the earths where the aircon drips on them.
Simple

[2 rocks]

ooohh! Will it spank me too! :twisted::eek:

...Even though having been coolish here, i haven't used the aircon as such, just ECON mode which (i'm guessing) would not involve the condensor/dehumidifier?

Mike

[ladas]

The only time this happened to me was because the battery was at the very near end of its usefull life.

I bought a new battery and it's never happened again

[Rovet]

I have an MY03 TD5 SE with no modifications other than a towbar and electric brake unit fitted by the original LR dealer in Melbourne. At 61K on the odometer the M&S lights behaved just as described in this thread and the vehicle went into "limp home" mode which resulted in replacement of the entire transmission under warranty in Canberra. That was almost a year ago and fixed the problem, but now the M&S lights are constantly on again and the vehicle is once again in "limp home" mode. The new transmission has now done about 30K. I am currently checking all the suggestions in this thread (battery, A/C dripping, transmission inhibitor switch, oil in harnesses, etc) but I have not found anything untoward as yet.

My VIN number is somewhat later than the number described in the Land Rover advisory sheet on problems with the transmission switch as being the "up to ......" VIN number for which the advisory information was applicable. My VIN number is beyond "...3A824000".

Do all the M&S problems described in this thread still occur with TD5 units after that VIN number?

I am 300 km from the nearest Land Rover agent. The agent has advised me to have the vehicle trucked to him (not to be driven) which will cost a pretty penny and may not be necessary going from some of the comments in this thread.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Rovet

[maggsie]

Another possible cause is chafing of the gearbox external harness.

Regards
Maggsie
04 V8 Disco
85 V8 County