Hand winches?? which one

[Jimmy]

Hi all,

I'm heading up to Cape York and am thinking of getting a hand winch for those 'just in case' type situations. Are they worth while getting?? and how much tonnage/pounds/kgs should one get if they have a fully loaded defender (no trailer). I've seen those "come-a-long" hand held ones and they seem cheaper than the full block ones.

Does anyone have experience with these or other brands? Part of me thinks that in mid to late august there will be plenty of other 4WD's around if I found trouble, and the extra weight of the block and chain is to much to lug around.

any thoughts would be great.

cheers
jimmy

[discodazz98]

I would suggest a tifor hand winch as you cannot beat it for duribility and reliability,I have had one for ten years now it has never missed a beat, when it was required to be used. As with anything as long as you look after it, it will last forever.:angel:

[Landy110]

I have a "green" hand winch from Opposite Lock and it works very well. They can pull harder than an electric winch but are hard work.
Steve.

[Blknight.aus]

5t single line pulll but thems Exxy

a 2.5t one + an extention rope and a snatch block is cheaper, and easier to carry.

Since I wont be using mine anytime soon your welcom to borrow my 2.5 tonner

[Tank]

Hi all,

I'm heading up to Cape York and am thinking of getting a hand winch for those 'just in case' type situations. Are they worth while getting?? and how much tonnage/pounds/kgs should one get if they have a fully loaded defender (no trailer). I've seen those "come-a-long" hand held ones and they seem cheaper than the full block ones.

Does anyone have experience with these or other brands? Part of me thinks that in mid to late august there will be plenty of other 4WD's around if I found trouble, and the extra weight of the block and chain is to much to lug around.

any thoughts would be great.

cheers
jimmy
I would go for 1.5 tonne Tirfor and a good quality snatch block (largest diameter you can get, does less damage to wire rope), if you connect the snatch block to your 4wd and run the wire rope from your Tirfor (which you have anchored to a tree) thru the snatch block and back to your anchor point, you will halve the amount of effort or work that you and the winch have to do, remember that the snatch block has to be moving with the load to get this advantage, regards Frank.

[scrambler]

The snatch block does NOT have to be attached to the vehicle - but if you don't you'll need to attach the winch AND the other end of the robe/extension strap to the vehicle and walk along with it. Sometimes it might be a better option.

[disco_thrasher]

TJM in burleigh had a special last week might be still going can not remember the name brand but they had steel casing not the cast iron ones

[EchiDna]

.... you will halve the amount of effort or work that you and the winch have to do....

not quite - you halve the load, but double the work required by the operator :)

pedantic I know!

but pumpin your arms to-and-fro working the winch for twice as long (for the same distance moved) is a reality when using a snatch block, two snatch blocks can help to reduce the load by half again, but that of course increases the work required further.

Another advantage of extra snatch blocks is that you can change the angle of the pull or gain a more safe position to work...

[Turtle61]

actually,

Work = Force x Distance

You do the same amount of work but by doubling the distance you half the force required.

:cool:

--Irek

[abaddonxi]

5t single line pulll but thems Exxy

a 2.5t one + an extention rope and a snatch block is cheaper, and easier to carry.

Since I wont be using mine anytime soon your welcom to borrow my 2.5 tonner

Got one of them, but the 20Kg for the winch, plus the 20Kg for the 16mm:eek: wire rope is a bit of a haul.

Cheers
Simon

[Tank]

The snatch block does NOT have to be attached to the vehicle - but if you don't you'll need to attach the winch AND the other end of the robe/extension strap to the vehicle and walk along with it. Sometimes it might be a better option.
If the snatch block is anchored and Not moving there is no mechanical Advantage, e.g. if the Tirfor was attached to the load (vehicle) and the wire rope was fed thru a snatch block anchored (not moving) to a tree and back to the load (vehicle) then there is no mechanical advantage (other than that supplied by the Tirfor), i.e. winch 1 metre of cable thru Tirfor, load (vehicle) moves 1 metre, Mechanical advantage is determined (pulleys and ropes) by the number of parts of rope Supporting the MOVING block, Regards Frank.

[Blknight.aus]

sorry tank not quite....

2:1 can be achieved as previously stated by running from the rig, to the tree and back to the rig.....

theres a few other ways of doing it but they all involve extra funky setups that youd only contemplate doing if you had the entire block and tackle setup of a tall ship at your disposal. Even I dont carry that much gear.

MA is essentially gonked out by counting the number of ropes coming from the object being moved and then dividing by the number of ropes with winches (that are pulling)on them

Rigged to advantage or rigged to disadvantage, Im guessing, where you might have your wires crossed...

if your pulling on a rope that comes from the object that you want to move through a pully system your rigged to advantage and if your pulling from the stationary block its to disadvantage.

[Tank]

sorry tank not quite....

2:1 can be achieved as previously stated by running from the rig, to the tree and back to the rig.....

theres a few other ways of doing it but they all involve extra funky setups that youd only contemplate doing if you had the entire block and tackle setup of a tall ship at your disposal. Even I dont carry that much gear.

MA is essentially gonked out by counting the number of ropes coming from the object being moved and then dividing by the number of ropes with winches (that are pulling)on them

Rigged to advantage or rigged to disadvantage, Im guessing, where you might have your wires crossed...

if your pulling on a rope that comes from the object that you want to move through a pully system your rigged to advantage and if your pulling from the stationary block its to disadvantage.
Dave, if you are pulling on a rope thru an anchored pulley and back to the load, you are pulling say South and the load is moving North, then you are pulling to Disadvantage and you have no Mechanical Advantage (MA), and the load moves exactly the same distance forward as the amount of rope you pull backwards which is 1:1, if you attach the pulley to the load, run the rope back to you and anchor it and pull on the unanchored end of the rope the pulley and the load will move in the same direction as you are pulling, i.e. you are pulling to Advantage and if you pull 1 metre of rope in the load and pulley will move 1/2 a metre, giving you a MA of 2 or 2:1, Regards Frank.

[AndyRevill]

These might help:

[AndyRevill]

and these:

[sclarke]

bigger the better, but heavier.

If you get one, use it before you leave home. try getting bogged and getting yourself out with just the hand winch. After 2 hours of compaining and cursing, you will relise that its a EMERGENCY tool. What i mean is you wont go places that you might get stuck as the recovery is so damn tiring........

I dont carry my Tirfor anymore, i used to when i never had a elec winch, but a hand winch will get you out of places the elec cant, sideways, backwards and back on its wheels after you roll it..........

Get a good quality one, about $500 is the going price i think.....

Mine only has a 8m cable as that is all i think i need to get that problem solved....... ive only used mine once and i winched sideways out of a ditch..... Simex could not get me out of the rut i was in......

[Tank]

These might help:
Andy, that's correct, you'll notice in the 1st, 3rd and 5th example the pull is to disadvantage and there are more parts of ropes, e.g. in the 3rd example there are 3 parts of rope to halve the load and in the 2nd there are only 2, so if you attach your Tirfor to a tree and the snatch block to the vehicle, run your cable from the Tirfor thru the snatch block and back to the anchor point you will halve the load (less the friction thru the block) and make life a bit easier, Regards Frank.

[vnx205]

I think Dave and Frank are describing two slightly different setups. Both are right if you allow for one small difference.

If the rope goes from the front of the bogged vehicle (presumably a Cruiser or Patrol) through a pully attached to a tree and back to the winch which is anchored to another tree, each metre of cable through the winch moves the vehicle one metre. So no mechanical advantage and Frank is right.

If the rope goes from the front of the bogged vehicle (presumably a Cruiser or Patrol) through a pully attached to a tree and back to the winch which is attached to the front of the bogged vehicle, each metre of cable through the winch moves the vehicle half a metre. So 2 to 1 mechanical advantage and Dave is right.

I think that's right.

[davros]

Just resurectingthis thread as I read about the weight issues...
Can some of those new polyester (or whatever they are made of!) winch ropes be used with a tirfor? Or does it rely on clamping onto the hard wire rope?
Cheers,
Dave

[abaddonxi]

Just resurectingthis thread as I read about the weight issues...
Can some of those new polyester (or whatever they are made of!) winch ropes be used with a tirfor? Or does it rely on clamping onto the hard wire rope?
Cheers,
Dave

Clamps on the wire rope.

Cheers
Simon