My tale of woe, and a freindly warning

[WRB]

Having owned my 300tdi since new and having it serviced, repaired and checked over by a couple of Melbourne's apparently better specialists in the east on a fairly regular basis, I put the car up for sale in the knowledge that some lucky person was going to be getting a good honest reliable car....

Along comes a thoroughly nice chap named Tim who gives it a good going over and then asks if he can take it to Fred Smith so that it can be properly checked over. No problem at all, I know the car is fine because a service chap told me so when I had it checked before our Christmas trip and no adverse reports were forthcoming from the people who did the 140K service just six weeks ago.

Fred phoned Tim half way through his inspection and advised him not to buy the car and that it was pointless continuing his inspection as the car was in such poor condition, it was actually dangerous!

I have not got the whole picture from Fred yet but, the main items he pointed out were positively horrifying. How could a car go through two (expensive) services as well as a pre Christmas trip inspection (as in "is it safe to drive my family to Queensland in") without some bright soul noticing that there were only 4 bolts holding the engine to the gearbox!! I have had the car from new, the gearbox has never been removed. Why was Fred the only one to point out that there was something definitely wrong with the car as the engine is running extremely harshly (This is the only Discovery I have ever driven, I wouldn't know any better). All of the Springs and shocks were replaced before Christmas and it was given a wheel alignment - why didn't somebody let me know that one of the steering rods was bent. This would have happened well over two years ago as that was the last time I went over any rocks in it.

I blame myself for most of this as I have the ability to look after the car myself. I worked on Landrovers over 25 years ago for the army. But, like a lot of people, I just got fed up with grease and thought, Hell, this is why we have mechanics.

I was completely devestated when Fred gave me the news. If you cannot entrust your car to those who are supposedly the best according to many owners, what can you do.

Maybe Fred has overly high standards, I don't know but, now that I Know of him, I will be taking the car back to him, once I have seen to all of it's problems and will get him to inspect it before putting it up for sale again. I just wish I had known about him when I first got the car as I would not be in this predicament now.

I am most appreciative of Tims thoroughness as I could have ended up selling some poor unsespecting innocent a car that was a death trap. And I am very glad for my family that I decided to replace it when I did. :no2:

Anybody know a reliable, dedicated Citroen service person?

cheers
Warren

[spudboy]

Appalling. Would these people be official LR or independent workshops?

[CraigE]

Just make sure that he is telling the truth, not trying to get his mate a better price. I have had this before to, but what they did not know was that I knew the car inside out and the issues they brought up where infact non existent. Needless to say they ate a bit of humble pie and ended up buying the car for full asking price.
I am not saying he is wrong, but check everything he says for yourself and get it verified.
The two things you have described are a minor fix and should have been pointed out as a need to fix, not a do not buy or do not continue inspection.

[mcrover]

I have heard storys like this before and it is sickening.

I have just recently had to write a 3 page letter about a dealership (not LR) ripping off a lady that new no better and have charged for work not done.

I wish you luck finding a good Citroen mechanic, they are a bit rare these days, good ones that is but ask around and someone will recomend one.

Hope everything gets sorted for you.

[Nathan]

I've found some pre-purchase inspections can be a bit dodgy to if the mechanic doing the inspection doesn't understand Land Rover's...:)

I had a 300tdi Disco that was well maintained from new and serviced at the dealer. One purchaser had it inspected at a Nissan mechanic who absolutely slam dunked it, criticised things that were 'just Land Rover' peculiarities etc.

The next purchaser had it inspected at a LR dealership (different to where I had it serviced) who gave an honest indication of what needed work but overall a good report...

Nathan

[loanrangie]

Anyone who knows of Fred Smith will know that he knows landy's, i have never taken a car to him but i just have to hear other members of the LROCV swear by him. If he was dodgy he could have just passed it and let the next unsuspecting person deal with it. I dont personally know Fred but have met him at club meetings.

[justinc]

As regards to Fred Smith, I have customers that have moved here from VIC that have used him, ALL their vehicles were/ are in excellent mechanical condition. I feel looking at his workmanship and hearing the things that I do about him that yes, I could trust him as a tech.

JC

[JDNSW]

I used Fred Smith when I lived in Melbourne, and still try to get him to have a look at my car when I am in Melbourne, and buy any critical parts from him, and get advice from him. In my view he is completely above suspicion. If he has one shortcoming it is that he is a perfectionist!

Unfortunately I can't help with the Citroen bloke - the one I used for 22 years in Melbourne retired about ten years ago and closed the business...

John

[WRB]

I will not have a chance to go over it until the weekend but, Tim has not asked to buy it cheaper and, having spoken to Fred myself, I have no reason to doubt him. The car has felt rough from new so, I just assumed that this is what they feel like. Some of the stuff he mentioned was superficial, like the scrape on the roof where a parking hight bar had actually dropped by an inch and one of the bodged repairs he mentioned, I knew about although, I had asked for the part to be dismantled and re-sealed, not just to have silastic smeared around the outside - once again, I should have checked (even though I shouldn't have to).
He is concerned that the gearbox has not been mating well with the engine due to the lack of bolts and it looks like they have been missing for a long time so, this will need to be pulled apart to ensure there is no damage. He mentioned that the belt tensioner was stuffed and this is the sort of thing that Tim was expecting and we would have negotiated a price that would take into account any minor problems. However, the engine/ gearbox issue is of greater concern and so, Tim will keep looking.
The service agents were all highly regarded independents....
The suspention was fitted by Pedders and while there is nothing wrong with the product (apart from it not being what I asked for - standard hight - but thats another story) you would think that they could have mentioned that the steering rod was bent as it would have made the wheel alignment difficult... no mention of it.
It seems we really have no choice but to check all work done until we are certain that the person doing the work actually gives a damn and you can feel confidence in their work.
I had the Citroen in for it's first service a week ago and asked for them to fix the squeaking breaks. They claimed that they chamfered them but, they are still squeaking. I will check them on the weekend and see if they did anything at all (and look into ordering some shims and a tube of antisqueal, like they should have done in the first place). There is nobody I have heard about that specialises in modern Citroens so, I guess I am on my own....

cheers

[wmg]

Fred has been servicing my Defender for a few years now since Mick (D110V8D) first recommended him. Not your stereotypical mechanic. He is honest and has integrity. His experience means he knows what to look for when inspecting a car; ie: the things that go wrong, the costly things, the dangerous things etc. I can't imagine that he'd be in cahoots with Tim to get a better price. If I were you I'd make a huge complaint to the people who serviced your car, and perhaps contact Consumer Affairs about them. If CA come a calling maybe they'll be more thorough and that may save someones life.

[George130]

Seem to hear a lot of horror stories about the mechanics out there. The Fiat guy doing my brother X19 seems to be quite good but then it is costing a fortune. Each time I drive my bro over there he takes into the workshop and shows us what has been done so far and the parts that he couldn't save. Even takes the time to show what he has done to the bits that are ok. Very impressed so far.

Sorry to hear your woes. I wish I had taken my beast to someone like that before I bought it.

[camel_landy]

Hey... I live in the UK and even I know Fred & his reputation.

Top bloke, knows his stuff and very, very thorough.

M

[p38arover]

Put in the missing bolts and sell it?

Roin

[Landy110]

Yeah, I have always found that when I get my car back from any mechanic I have a good look at what he has done and usually find something to fix. I usually try to do things myself, that way I know it is done properly and it means I am also seeing other things on the vehicle. The more you do yourself the better you know your machine.
Steve.

[WRB]

Thats exactly what I used to do Steve, when I was younger with no family and lots more time....
Roin, Unfortunately, I seem to have a conscience and it would nag the crap out of me if I didn't fix things up properly. I will either take some time and get it to the point where it is actually a worthwhile buy for somebody or sell it as if for a few K. Depends on what it is going to cost in bits and time.

cheers

[Michael2]

I got my RR checked by Fred when I bought it. 2 pages of 'faults', but the only main one was the LT77 output gear being worn. He said not to do any BIG trips, and true to his prognosis, I had to rebuild the gearbox 200,000km later. He's very thorough & knowledgeable.


I reckon you should take the report to the guys that serviced your Disco and ask that these things be checked and attended to. Tell them you'll pursue the matter through the VACC if they don't act in a timely fashion. A threat to raise 'safety issues' with VICROADS should also see some action taken.

[isuzu110]

Ok, I'm from Qld and I've had Fred work on my 110 as he was recommended. Not fast but very thorough. Would trust his findings 110% and have not found him to be alarmist.

He gave my vehicle a going over and gave me a prioritised and pragmatic list of what should be addressed.

[haggisbasher]

just had a waterpump replaced by Fred and i have to say that my 'fender will be going back there to be looked after. He was very through and was fine to let me watch while he did the work.

He came highly recommended and i pass this on to anyone else who want to use him.

C

[rrturboD]

Re Citroen Repairer
I'm in Canberra so not much good finding you a local repairer ... try www.aussiefrogs.com and I am sure like here, members will be able to point you to a reliable repairer, maybe even a 'non dealer'!.

[Ace]

and this is why i do all my own work, sure you get your hands dirty and it might take up the odd weekend to get major stuff done but you know it has been done properly and think of the money you save. If i need specialist gear i give my mechanic a hand in his work shop while working on my car.

Its not good, especially when some of the stuff could lead to a serious accident, or being stranded out whoop whoop. As you say you should check, but when we pay what we do for mechanics you shouldnt have to. Matt

[isuzurover]

and this is why i do all my own work, sure you get your hands dirty and it might take up the odd weekend to get major stuff done but you know it has been done properly and think of the money you save.

x2

There ARE plenty of great mechanics out there though - e.g. Justin C!

But when working on your own vehicle, you can put MUCH more time and effort in than you could ever pay anyone to do, and lots more attention to detail. My IIA would have cost a million dollars if I had paid a mechanic to do everything!!!

[modman]

i do what i can to fix my own fender. i went to fred for some minor work assuming i would get him to do all the servicing, but just cannot afford/justify to maintain my 93 fender like he maintains customers cars. sure would love it if i could afford for fred to do my work. but i does what i can and use sites like this for info:eek:
david

[DeeJay]

Just make sure that he is telling the truth, not trying to get his mate a better price. I have had this before to, but what they did not know was that I knew the car inside out and the issues they brought up where infact non existent. Needless to say they ate a bit of humble pie and ended up buying the car for full asking price.
I am not saying he is wrong, but check everything he says for yourself and get it verified.
The two things you have described are a minor fix and should have been pointed out as a need to fix, not a do not buy or do not continue inspection.

Not Fred, he's worked too hard to do something as stupid as that. I think all the testimonials here second that.
Vic is'nt all that big when it comes to Landies;)

[jik22]

Anyone who knows of Fred Smith will know that he knows landy's, i have never taken a car to him but i just have to hear other members of the LROCV swear by him. If he was dodgy he could have just passed it and let the next unsuspecting person deal with it. I dont personally know Fred but have met him at club meetings.

I met the guy a couple of weeks ago while in Melbourne on business (One of the guys at the Melbourne office has used him for years) and my initial impression after chatting for a couple of hours is that what he doesn't know about Landrovers probably isn't worth knowing! He also seemed very genuine, to the point of turning away work if he thought the owner wasn't going to let him do the job properly. I'm not often wrong on my initial assumptions of people either! ;)

[Roger_Wilkinson]

Warren,

For which model Citroen are you looking for a service person? There are a couple in Melbourne that I would recommend, but it's horses for courses. But as someone else said, try aussiefrogs, it's no less helpful than here. I'm pretty active on it, as I do my own work on my DS and XM, as well as my Stage 1 V8.

Roger

[WRB]

Hi Roger,

I have a brand new C5HDI Wagon. I will have to use the dealer for services until the warrenty runs out But, I will be checking it over thoroughly every time it goes into them. Unfortunately, I will always need to take it to them for software upgrades but this will only be if something is actually wrong. I looked at buying my own proxia software but, it was going to cost Euro2.5K. I got onto aussie frogs and asked if any Melbourne members would like to buy one as a group but only got 2 responses... they do not seem to be as active as landrover people.
I have managed to track down a website run by PSA that has parts info and, if you pay a subscription, access to on line manuals, so, I am slowly getting self sufficient.

As for all of the accolades for Fred. I agree, after speaking with him, and seeing the report, he does have very high standards - I only hope he has an equally passionate and reliable apprentice to carry on when he finally hangs up his spanners...

cheers

Warren

[4bee]

Roin? You've had a name change?:D


Put in the missing bolts and sell it?

Who knows? It may even sound better when it's all torqued up evenly? May be no damage at all.

Problem Solvered.

[WRB]

Okay, so I work in publishing... you expect that I should be able to spell!!

I am going to check it over just in case... hopefully, you are right.

cheers

[4bee]

Put in the missing bolts and sell it?

Roin
__________________
1995 P38A Range Rover 4.6 litre V8 Auto
1995 Discovery 300Tdi Auto
2005 Subaru Forester X 2.5 litre Auto


It's not just you. It's how Ron has signed himself, but I suspect he bashed the 2 keys at once.:D