Switch to turn off ABS for off-road use???

[chosen]

G'day all,

I am just wondering if anyone has ever had any experience with modifying the ABS on Land rovers?

In particular I am thinking of an on/off switch for the ABS so that when you go off the black stuff you can turn it off to make driving conditions safer.

Anyone got any ideas about how to do it or if it has been done before, etc?

Cheers,

chosen

[HAK]

G'day all,

I am just wondering if anyone has ever had any experience with modifying the ABS on Land rovers?

In particular I am thinking of an on/off switch for the ABS so that when you go off the black stuff you can turn it off to make driving conditions safer.

Anyone got any ideas about how to do it or if it has been done before, etc?

Cheers,

chosen

Just curious why would it be safer:o:o:o:o:o:o

[barryj]

Me too. Why do you want wheels to lock up under braking?

[cartm58]

Its the theory that ABS by braking and releasing and braking induces a slide in gravel or on wet soil

Of course ABS is a better braking system than not having it but old diehards dont understand or trust new technology and come up with these weird ideas.

Not unusual to see posts in Land Rover Forums here and on USA boards with people asking how to disconnect the ABS as they eprceive it as being dangerous.

I guess there maybe some people who think drum brakes are better than discs

[The ho har's]

i find ABS great in slow off roading down steep hill took a bit of getting use too:D

[mcrover]

If you really had to do it the easiest way would be to cut the ABS feed from the fuse box (after the fuse) and wire a switch in there.

I wouldnt bother, I would actually like to have ABS in some situations as my D1 doesnt have it and I have found situations which ABS would have made it safer and easier to drive especially on wet clay with no ruts and a hair pin bend on a steep hill, ABS would be nice.

If you really need to disconnect it for a specific reason, you could always just pull the fuse.

[chosen]

OK, well to all who asked why it would be safer here is the theory...

Now on some surfaces such as loose gravel roads the way to achieve the best stopping distance is as follows...

Brakes on... wheels stop rolling and allow the tyres to build up a bit of a chock of gravel in front of them aiding in the stopping. ALSO the tyres can then bite through the loose surface on top to the often firmer surface below.

It is a known fact the vehicles fitted with ABS can be more dangerous in some circumstances. Agreed it isn't very often but if you live at the end of a very long stretch of loose gravel road and there are kangaroos in the area you might not want it!

chosen

[dmdigital]

OK, well to all who asked why it would be safer here is the theory...

Now on some surfaces such as loose gravel roads the way to achieve the best stopping distance is as follows...

Brakes on... wheels stop rolling and allow the tyres to build up a bit of a chock of gravel in front of them aiding in the stopping. ALSO the tyres can then bite through the loose surface on top to the often firmer surface below.

It is a known fact the vehicles fitted with ABS can be more dangerous in some circumstances. Agreed it isn't very often but if you live at the end of a very long stretch of loose gravel road and there are kangaroos in the area you might not want it!

chosen

Yes, this is all correct. For those of you with an older D1 with ABS if you haven't tried ABS agreesively on a gravel or corrugated surface, you don't know what you're in for. Stopping becomes something you wish to happen! My D2a is significantly better on a gravel or corrugated surface than my D1 was.

In a D2 though if you were to "switch off" ABS, then you've just disabled TC and HDC as well. In a Defender 110 Td5 you can do this at startup as the Wabco D unit has an ability to be shut off that isn't in the Wabco SLABS unit in the Disco's.

Of course if you're driving on pisolitic surfaces (think of a road covered in 6mm ball bearings), then it's just plan scary whether you're braking or not :eek:

[duff]

On the Wabco site they actually warn that vehicles fitted with ABS may not stop very well on some loose surfaces.

If you ever have to do an emergency stop on the dirt at 110km it is quite an eye opener. My disco feels like it is only slowing geadually,, very hairy ride.

What you have said about the chock being formed is correct, the other point is that ABS on solid suface is a series of skid brake skid brake skid brake resulting in fantastic stopping. BUT on some loose surface types ABS braking is a series of skid slide skid slide skid slide resulting in little actual braking.





OK, well to all who asked why it would be safer here is the theory...

Now on some surfaces such as loose gravel roads the way to achieve the best stopping distance is as follows...

Brakes on... wheels stop rolling and allow the tyres to build up a bit of a chock of gravel in front of them aiding in the stopping. ALSO the tyres can then bite through the loose surface on top to the often firmer surface below.

It is a known fact the vehicles fitted with ABS can be more dangerous in some circumstances. Agreed it isn't very often but if you live at the end of a very long stretch of loose gravel road and there are kangaroos in the area you might not want it!

chosen

[HAK]

OK, well to all who asked why it would be safer here is the theory...

Now on some surfaces such as loose gravel roads the way to achieve the best stopping distance is as follows...

Brakes on... wheels stop rolling and allow the tyres to build up a bit of a chock of gravel in front of them aiding in the stopping. ALSO the tyres can then bite through the loose surface on top to the often firmer surface below.

It is a known fact the vehicles fitted with ABS can be more dangerous in some circumstances. Agreed it isn't very often but if you live at the end of a very long stretch of loose gravel road and there are kangaroos in the area you might not want it!

chosen


I found when I had the GU which didn’t have ABS on down hills on extreme dirt that I couldn’t stop the car and sometimes had to power to gain control which could have been dangerous in the circumstance of narrow track with either rocks trees on either side

I found with the D2 that a combination of hill decent and ABS or just ABS that this was a lot safer and easier to control

Personally I don’t see the safety but only you know your driving comfort as stated a switch around your fuse box would be the go

[dmdigital]

the other point is that ABS on solid suface is a series of skid brake skid brake skid brake resulting in fantastic stopping. BUT on some loose surface types ABS braking is a series of skid slide skid slide skid slide resulting in little actual braking.

Not strictly true. ABS can operate in this manner but strictly speaking the speed sensor is there to detect the rotationary speed of the wheel falling below a predified point and thus releasing the brake on that wheel (the reverse is in effect for HDC). This may be 40kph, 4kph or 0kph depending on how the system is configured. In fact the SLABS ECU cannot detect speeds lower than about 2kph.

[DaveS3]

Even if it doesn't have a great bearing on safety - it certainly helps with the predictability of the car.
Having said that i would prefer a vehicle without ABS for offroad as I know I can control it.

Cheers
Dave.

[Utemad]

I had to do an emergency stop once in an F250 with ABS on a gravel road. I swear it picked up speed once the ABS kicked in. Luckily the cow got out of my way as I didn't stop before where the cow was.
That is a 2004 F250 so not old technology (well it probably is being an American tank).

[chosen]

RE: installing an on/off switch after the fuse box...

For those who have mentioned that this would be the best way to turn off the ABS I have another question: Would doing this alter the braking capacity of the vehicle, I mean the brakes work properly when ABS isn't working right? Could there be a problem with the flow of brake fluid bypassing the system or something? Any ideas as to how "exactly" the system works?

I guess the ABS warning light would come on.

chosen

[100I]

and drum brakes are more efficient than discs;)

but they lack the ability to dissipate heat as well a disc can leading to brake fade when pushed hard.

[MT]

Of course, you could always just drive at a speed appropriate for the road conditions.....;)

[duff]

Yes of course the technical functioning of ABS is as you describe.

I was talking in Laymens terms and describing what is often the net result on the road. It is really quite dangerous on the dirt(I am not talking about normal hard braking,, but an all out do or die emergency stop.) ABS is Dangerous/less effective than non ABS brakes on loose surface. I dont think it is practicable to travel at 60kmh when you are travelling long distances on the dirt regularly,, 100kmh is safe on maintained dirt roads, except for when you need to rely on ABS to stop quickly:eek:. so the option of turning off ,, or better still having a "loose surface" switch, would result in a more useable vehicle for me.

But each to their own I guess


Not strictly true. ABS can operate in this manner but strictly speaking the speed sensor is there to detect the rotationary speed of the wheel falling below a predified point and thus releasing the brake on that wheel (the reverse is in effect for HDC). This may be 40kph, 4kph or 0kph depending on how the system is configured. In fact the SLABS ECU cannot detect speeds lower than about 2kph.

[LandyAndy]

Skidding wheels will pull you up heaps quicker on gravel,they dig in and bite.
I disable my TC/ABS on the gravel when towing my firewood,I cant stop it with the ABS.Did a few practice runs on/off.My 450kg UNBRAKED tandem trailer with 2 tonnes of wood on board takes some stopping in the gravel,it stops in less than half the distance at 60ks with the ABS OFF.
YES I KNOW ITS SEVERELY OVERLOADED,yes Im STUPID,but I will be building a trailer with electric brakes to replace this trailer,could rush out and buy one but want to build my own,have purchased the steel for the chassis/cage.
Andrew

[drivesafe]

This one comes around about once a year on one site or another and the same arguments appear but cartm58 is the closest to what you should do when driving on gravel surfaces.

The correct way, and this takes HEAPS of practising to achieve, is to NOT slam the brakes on.

I have practised and practised and the best I can do when an unexpected emergence brake in needed on a gravel road is to instinctively jump on the breaks but as soon as the grey matter kicks in I back the break pedal pressure off a bit and the vehicle will then pull up pretty quickly.

It’s still not as quick as a non ABS equipped vehicle but there is one major difference and it doesn’t matter if you stand on the brakes or control the braking, ABS gives you the ability to control the vehicle while locking up the brakes usually means you either loose control or you have to release the brakes to get back steering control.

You are far better off having the ability to maybe able to steer around an obstacle at some speed that skid into it at a lower speed.

Next time you are on a wide, straight section of gravel road, take the ABS fuse out, get up to 60 and slam the brakes on and don’t take your foot off till you have stopped.

Go back, put the fuse back and do it again.

On average, depending on the surface, ABS will take about 1/3 greater distance but compere the stopping patens. The ABS will be longer but no matter what happened during the braking, you can keep it straight, while the non ABS paten will be anything but straight.

The best thing you can do with an ABS vehicle on gravel is to learn to drive with the advantages and disadvantages of it and in the long run the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages.

ABS vehicles, even on gravel, gives inexperienced drivers a far better chance of surviving an emergence braking situation.

Cheers.

[dmdigital]

I dont think it is practicable to travel at 60kmh when you are travelling long distances on the dirt regularly,, 100kmh is safe on maintained dirt roads, except for when you need to rely on ABS to stop quickly:eek:. so the option of turning off ,, or better still having a "loose surface" switch, would result in a more useable vehicle for me.

But each to their own I guess

Driving on dirt roads needs constant awareness and you should keep the speed down and never assume a maximum safe speed. Conditions can change quickly, oncoming galah's speeding blindly towards you in the middle of the track, loose surfaces etc can all bring things to a catastrophic end. 100kph isn't essentially safe on dirt tracks anymore than 20kph is. You must always drive defensively and monitor the conditions, the faster you go, the more hazardous it can be. And, yes, I drive a lot of dirt tracks and in case you haven't guessed people who speed (regardless of the conditions) and/or drive offensively on dirt tracks really annoy me
:soapbox:

On a lighter note, here's some alternative meanings for the abbreviation of Antiblockiersystem (correct meaning of the Wabco ABS): http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Antiblockiersystem+(German%3a+anti-skid+brake+system)

[mcrover]

This one comes around about once a year on one site or another and the same arguments appear but cartm58 is the closest to what you should do when driving on gravel surfaces.

The correct way, and this takes HEAPS of practising to achieve, is to NOT slam the brakes on.

I have practised and practised and the best I can do when an unexpected emergence brake in needed on a gravel road is to instinctively jump on the breaks but as soon as the grey matter kicks in I back the break pedal pressure off a bit and the vehicle will then pull up pretty quickly.

It’s still not as quick as a non ABS equipped vehicle but there is one major difference and it doesn’t matter if you stand on the brakes or control the braking, ABS gives you the ability to control the vehicle while locking up the brakes usually means you either loose control or you have to release the brakes to get back steering control.

You are far better off having the ability to maybe able to steer around an obstacle at some speed that skid into it at a lower speed.

Next time you are on a wide, straight section of gravel road, take the ABS fuse out, get up to 60 and slam the brakes on and don’t take your foot off till you have stopped.

Go back, put the fuse back and do it again.

On average, depending on the surface, ABS will take about 1/3 greater distance but compere the stopping patens. The ABS will be longer but no matter what happened during the braking, you can keep it straight, while the non ABS paten will be anything but straight.

The best thing you can do with an ABS vehicle on gravel is to learn to drive with the advantages and disadvantages of it and in the long run the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages.

ABS vehicles, even on gravel, gives inexperienced drivers a far better chance of surviving an emergence braking situation.

Cheers.

I totaly agree and just want to add that I have had a Jeep with ABS that had a loose gravel road switch factory fitted (I think it looked factory) on the dash and I found that on gravel the ABS under heavy braking it would pull 1 side or the other with no warning of which way it would pull but did still have steering control so was controlable although off putting and a little scarey.

With the switch off it would happilly lock the front wheels but would completely lose steering control even though I tried light braking medium and heavy braking and backing off the pedal wouldnt unlock the fronts until you were hardly braking at all.

I also agree that your speed is the biggest thing you can control in regards to being still in control in the event that something happens and you need to stop in a hurry but I do agree that on some gravel roads espesially if you know then well it can be/percieve to be relativly safe to travel at or around the 100kmh mark.

I would ask Drivesafe if my solution would be sufficient as he is the Guru in electrical stuff, Im just a lowly mechanic so maybe pick his brain on the specifics.

[drivesafe]

I would ask Drivesafe if my solution would be sufficient as he is the Guru in electrical stuff, Im just a lowly mechanic so maybe pick his brain on the specifics.

Got to be honest, the only way I have ever tried it was to pull the fuse. This was on my D1 and and I only did it the once after a mate and I argued over the same thing that is being discussed here.

BTW, I was, at that time, arguing to switch the ABS off on gravel roads.

The mate, at the time was doing test drives on new 4x4s for Overland Mag, was the one that put me onto practising with gentle braking.

That definitely works but no matter how much you practice, when an emergency stop is needed on gravel, instinct still has me jumping on the brake pedal, but milliseconds later I’m easing off.

Cheers

[Zute]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the CDL is engaged, does this not disable the ABS and TC ?
If you are driving on loose gravel it is safe for the drive line to be centrally locked, plus it gives far better handling.

[davros]

In response to the above about the CDL: On the older disco 2's the cdl does not disable the abs when engaged unless you turn the vehicle off then back on while leaving the cdl engaged. You can cut a wire to prevent this so that it behaves like the later models where the cdl does not affect abs.

A question: If you rigged up a switch to enable/disable the ABS fuse, would you be able to switch ABS on or off whilst driving, or would you have to stop and switch off&on to restart ABS?

(It's just when I am heading home at about 130kph and trying to look out for cows and damaged grids and older drivers :eek: I can't be bothered stopping when I'm going on and off the bitumen. And don't get me started about the school bus :mad: SO SLOW!!!! Stopping and slow speeds are for the weak and those who show pity and empathy for other road users :twisted:. KIDDING KIDDING!! Sorry guys couldn't help it!I know you are all trying to do the right thing by giving speed advice.)

But seriously I do believe there is a serious question in being able to switch ABS on or off.

[Sandtoyz]

In a D2 though if you were to "switch off" ABS, then you've just disabled TC and HDC as well.
In a Defender 110 Td5 you can do this at startup as the Wabco D unit has an ability to be shut off that isn't in the Wabco SLABS unit in the Disco's.

How is this done in the Defenders?
I did here about this ages ago, but forgot how it was done ...

[HAK]

Of course, you could always just drive at a speed appropriate for the road conditions.....;)

How about that ah ;);)

[dmdigital]

How is this done in the Defenders?
I did here about this ages ago, but forgot how it was done ...

See this thread: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=34084

[Kandy]

This one comes around about once a year on one site or another and the same arguments appear but cartm58 is the closest to what you should do when driving on gravel surfaces.

The correct way, and this takes HEAPS of practising to achieve, is to NOT slam the brakes on.

I have practised and practised and the best I can do when an unexpected emergence brake in needed on a gravel road is to instinctively jump on the breaks but as soon as the grey matter kicks in I back the break pedal pressure off a bit and the vehicle will then pull up pretty quickly.

It’s still not as quick as a non ABS equipped vehicle but there is one major difference and it doesn’t matter if you stand on the brakes or control the braking, ABS gives you the ability to control the vehicle while locking up the brakes usually means you either loose control or you have to release the brakes to get back steering control.

You are far better off having the ability to maybe able to steer around an obstacle at some speed that skid into it at a lower speed.

Next time you are on a wide, straight section of gravel road, take the ABS fuse out, get up to 60 and slam the brakes on and don’t take your foot off till you have stopped.

Go back, put the fuse back and do it again.

On average, depending on the surface, ABS will take about 1/3 greater distance but compere the stopping patens. The ABS will be longer but no matter what happened during the braking, you can keep it straight, while the non ABS paten will be anything but straight.

The best thing you can do with an ABS vehicle on gravel is to learn to drive with the advantages and disadvantages of it and in the long run the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages.

ABS vehicles, even on gravel, gives inexperienced drivers a far better chance of surviving an emergence braking situation.

Cheers.

Im with you drivesafe--- belting around in the 60s in HR panelvans looking for the "perfect wave" on old narrow sandy / gravel tracks down the southern coast of NSW gave me a great appreciation of speed control on braking-- lock the wheels, no control over steering and bingo! hello tree. I understand the nice idea of control that braking- break through the crust- build up a nice little mound of crud in front of the wheels to assist in slowing down, but hey-- who's the iceman that when a bloody great roo jumps AT you or whoa, what happened to the road--- we hit the brakes HARD-- give me steering anyday-- ABS leave it ON.:)

[Sandtoyz]

Who's kidding who...
HR's and brakes? They were mutually exclusive of each other!!!

[davros]

... We've got a lot of information on the pros and cons of turning ABS on/off but I get the impression no one has actually deliberately done it apart from "accidently" when using the cdl?
Iv'e just attempted the "10 pumps of the pedal" trick mentioned in the link to no avail on my 2000 disco two.
Does anyone know the answer to my previous question - if you remove the fuse, will it activate/deactivate the ABS without having to restart the vehicle? And I guess if you stop with the fuse "out" when you restart can you just put it back in without resarting? My guess is no as per using the CDL... ?? (ie would a switch on this line be a simple "on/off" job or stopping and starting?)
Its rarely I'd turn off the ABS but if it's going to be a hassle I'd rather it on than off, but so saying it can be a bit hairy using ABS on loose gravel or slimy mud. It's great to be able to steer as people say but only when there is somewhere to go! At other times I'd rather just stop! (example - rounding a corner on a "closed in" track to find an unexpected gate or fallen tree).

On another note - as we're all putting our two bobs in about braking - here's some info and a few ABS questions:

Cadence braking ("pumping" the brakes) is best for drum brakes, or so i'm told. This is because drums do not tend to release well if you just lift your foot a tiny bit, and to get the wheels tuning again must be released a lot whereas...

Threshold braking (pushing pedal till tyres lock then releasing the brake pedal gradualy untill wheels start to turn) is better suited to discs, which will respond better and release quicker when the foot is lifted.

So saying, after getting used to both, what happens with ABS? If the wheels lock up and the modulator kicks in, does it matter how hard you stand on the pedal? Are the "modulations" strength related to pedal pressure?
My automatic reaction in a skid is to lift my foot (as with either cadence or threshold braking), with ABS should I do this or just stomp on it?I believe the latest landies have a "emergency braking" response in the ABS that I guess equates to stomping on the pedal??
Question questions...

[numpty]

I think you've just answered your own question. ABS actually brakes and releases (cadence braking) only it does it many times faster than the human foot can. I always practised cadence braking on drum brake equipped vehicles and force of habit has me doing the same thing with disc brakes. And my Defender is ABS equipped. In my opinion, (and that of advanced driving instructors I've dealt with) skidding wheels mean no control and longer braking distances.

[scrambler]

... We've got a lot of information on the pros and cons of turning ABS on/off but I get the impression no one has actually deliberately done it apart from "accidently" when using the cdl?
Iv'e just attempted the "10 pumps of the pedal" trick mentioned in the link to no avail on my 2000 disco two.
Does anyone know the answer to my previous question - if you remove the fuse, will it activate/deactivate the ABS without having to restart the vehicle? And I guess if you stop with the fuse "out" when you restart can you just put it back in without resarting? My guess is no as per using the CDL... ?? (ie would a switch on this line be a simple "on/off" job or stopping and starting?)
Its rarely I'd turn off the ABS but if it's going to be a hassle I'd rather it on than off, but so saying it can be a bit hairy using ABS on loose gravel or slimy mud. It's great to be able to steer as people say but only when there is somewhere to go! At other times I'd rather just stop! (example - rounding a corner on a "closed in" track to find an unexpected gate or fallen tree).

On another note - as we're all putting our two bobs in about braking - here's some info and a few ABS questions:

Cadence braking ("pumping" the brakes) is best for drum brakes, or so i'm told. This is because drums do not tend to release well if you just lift your foot a tiny bit, and to get the wheels tuning again must be released a lot whereas...

Threshold braking (pushing pedal till tyres lock then releasing the brake pedal gradualy untill wheels start to turn) is better suited to discs, which will respond better and release quicker when the foot is lifted.

So saying, after getting used to both, what happens with ABS? If the wheels lock up and the modulator kicks in, does it matter how hard you stand on the pedal? Are the "modulations" strength related to pedal pressure?
My automatic reaction in a skid is to lift my foot (as with either cadence or threshold braking), with ABS should I do this or just stomp on it?I believe the latest landies have a "emergency braking" response in the ABS that I guess equates to stomping on the pedal??
Question questions...
STOMP!

I had this discussion with my (now ex-) wife when she almost totalled our Subaru into the side of some dill's ute (he pulled out in front of her). She was very proud of the fact that the car didn't skid :eek: but no, the brake pedal hadn't pulsed. Since I'd tested it out I knew exactly what the ABS did, including the thumping back through the pedal.

AFAIK, once you reach the threshold (skid) it makes no difference whether you are heavy or light on the brakes, because from then on the computer is optimising the braking response. And it will pull the vehicle up faster than you will if you lift your foot. Unfortunately, it's completely counter-intuitive to an experienced driver.

[Zute]

I'm trying to get my wife to come out and do some braking practice, so she'll know what to expected.( Its our first ABS equipped Vehicle) Its very unnerving the first few times.
Once had a Guy swear black and blue that when you feel the ABS pulse that you should lift off. Didn't matter what was said by me or others, he'd done a one day advance driving course, with 20 of his work mates.

[duff]

Yes longer braking on hard surfaces, but not always on gravel/dirt surfaces.

below is cut and paste from the Wabco site. and is very much what I have experienced( except the "slightly longer" in my case has been "alarmingly inefficient". This is why I would like to switch the ABS off on dirt roads, because it is not always practicable to "drive slowly and with the utmost of care" Of course I am not advocating race style driving just reasonable cruise speed.


"Despite the above, you should not
expect that ABS will reduce the braking
distance under all circumstances.
The braking distance may even be
slightly longer when driving on gravel
or new snow on a slippery base (grit/
snow wedge) when in any case you
should only ever drive slowly and
with the utmost care."

Driving on unconsolidated ground

• Actuate the brakes carefully
when driving on surfaces with a
soft, deep covering such as in
deep powder snow, sand or
gravel. The braking distance may
be longer under certain circumstances.
Under such conditions,
the braking distance may be
shorter if the wheels lock up as in
a system without anti-lock brakes
(due to the wedge of material
which forms).



I think you've just answered your own question. ABS actually brakes and releases (cadence braking) only it does it many times faster than the human foot can. I always practised cadence braking on drum brake equipped vehicles and force of habit has me doing the same thing with disc brakes. And my Defender is ABS equipped. In my opinion, (and that of advanced driving instructors I've dealt with) skidding wheels mean no control and longer braking distances.

[davros]

Just like to comment how good this site is for "down to earth" experienced opinions without too much "soapboxing" (although a little is good as it keeps me on the straight and narrow - and around a few corners too!). I guess the conclusion to this thread is - as we seem to have no real results of mods to ABS systems [which sound rather risky in nature, something that really appears almost as much fun as "lets play with the airbag actuators and then run into a tree and see what happens"] - that ABS is not great in all circumstances but in the majority of high speed situations, especially on firmer roads with somewhere to steer too, it will be an advantage.
For the inexperienced I'd say leave well alone!
For the off road extrememist, I'd say have fun but don't bother calling your insurance company when it all goes-pear shaped!
Now, where's those wire cutters and a switch... :eek:
:)
Dave
PS remember to STOMP!!

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm trying to get my wife to come out and do some braking practice, so she'll know what to expected.( Its our first ABS equipped Vehicle) Its very unnerving the first few times.
Once had a Guy swear black and blue that when you feel the ABS pulse that you should lift off. Didn't matter what was said by me or others, he'd done a one day advance driving course, with 20 of his work mates.
In the US after when ABS was introduced in vehicles there were MANY crashes when people lifted off instead of keeping it in the carpet. With ABS you can try to get threshold braking going, but if you pass and the abs begins to actuate then you have nail it.

We spent a bit of time playing with the ABS on our recent trip. My mate was convinced that ABS on dirt road would automatically mean huge stopping distances. My experience was this was not automatically the case.

On hard packed dirt the car stopped like on bitumen. Just amazing. On loose dirt and corrugations the distances were longer, but you stopped straight and didn't go with the camber. Also if you happened to trail a little brake into a corner, sometimes the rears would lock and in this case the abs would just work on the rear, which would stop the back breaking out because of braking.

All in all, some positives, some negs. Overall, I was happy with it on and I wouldn't go disconnecting it and voiding my insurance!