HELP!! Disco series 2 no go - torque converter?

[davros]

Will it ever stop!! Well maybe.. Will it ever NOT stop!
There was an iritating little metalic rattle from my disco two (2000) td5 auto on start up that I could not pin down. It sounded like a nut had fallen into the exhaust pipe when the head was off and I thought nothing of it.
Just as I arrived at the tip today, I noticed a horrid rattle, that was getting worse at idle!
I decided to head home to investigate, then my nemesis slowly lost drive as engine revs rose, and started to roll backwards while in drive, making a mettalic clinking sound. On turning off this clinking continued as a regular knock for a while, sounding like it came from the bell housing. In park the vehicle wont move, but when started it makes the clinking noise in all gears, high and low range not withstanding. The big scary truck came and took my vehicle away to the dealer.
Any ideas??
Costs?
Cheers,
Dave

[barryj]

Will it ever stop!! Well maybe.. Will it ever NOT stop!
There was an iritating little metalic rattle from my disco two (2000) td5 auto on start up that I could not pin down. It sounded like a nut had fallen into the exhaust pipe when the head was off and I thought nothing of it.
Just as I arrived at the tip today, I noticed a horrid rattle, that was getting worse at idle!
I decided to head home to investigate, then my nemesis slowly lost drive as engine revs rose, and started to roll backwards while in drive, making a mettalic clinking sound. On turning off this clinking continued as a regular knock for a while, sounding like it came from the bell housing. In park the vehicle wont move, but when started it makes the clinking noise in all gears, high and low range not withstanding. The big scary truck came and took my vehicle away to the dealer.
Any ideas??
Costs?
Cheers,
Dave

A new one on me. Does not sound good at all. Hope all goes well.

[davros]

Would this be the flex plate? If this is the case though, I read the engine would run rough, but it idles ok, and starts ok...
When it turned it back on the first time it drove a few meters, and stopped. When I turned it off you could hear the "something" in the bell housing winding down, as mentioned.
Now if I turn it on it just makes a metalic clicking, and doesn't seem to make the wining down noise. As if before something was "just" connected, but now its totally sheared off.
Dave

[p38arover]

Flex plate, in my opinion. It's happened to my P38A - twice.

The one on the left is the broken one.....

The part isn't too expensive but the gearbox has to be removed to replace it. Mine is currently broken and I'm awaiting a new flywheel/drive plate as well as it was damaged by the plate breaking (the drive plate is unobtainable in Aus or the UK even from Land Rover).

[davros]

It's my suspicion too. It sounds like that, like the "ringing" noise spring steel would make.
Do you know if there is an updated, stronger type, or do you jsur replace it and hope the, like yourself, it doesn't re-occur?
And while its off are there any seals you should replace?
Cheers,
Dave

[p38arover]

I don't know of any updated parts.

Re access and replacing seals, check the welch plugs in the back of the block for leakage, especially the camshaft.

If you check the TSBs on RAVE, look for ones referring to oil leaks from the rear of the engine.

Ron

[davros]

I'll get dealer to have a look (dealer is one of those "you tell us whats wrong and then we fix it other wise we will stuff around for ages" types...)
My disco has been taken to them, hopefully get some warranty claim on this.
Dave

[p38arover]

Where are you located? I recommend updating your profile as it helps us help you.

Ron

[davros]

At the mo in Denmark WA but live in the wheat belt paradise of Katanning... My nearest centre is albany. I'm into mechanics myself as I'm a design and tech teacher at the local senior high school. My other vehicle, which does not let me down, is an 88" lightweight!I'm off to get it tomorrow!
Dave

[davros]

More betterer. Now that I have no vehicle for a while I can do these things...:(

[mcrover]

Not the flex plate as it started again, there is more torque through the flex plate on start up than any other time during the running period so I would say converter.

[p38arover]

Not the flex plate as it started again,

No. The starter motor drives the ring gear on the drive plate which is bolted to the engine. The flex plate is mounted between the drive plate and the torque converter.

If Davros unbolts the cover plate at the bottom front of the bellhousing and has a look in, he might be able to see the broken flex plate. Also unbolt the small round cover plate from the bottom of the bellhousing and see if any bits of metal fall out. Look forward from the small round hole and you may see the broken flex plate - I can on mine.

Ron

[davros]

Hopefully it'll be covered under my extended warranty...
Out of interest Ron I dont know if the plate for the dicso is the same as your p38a, but a company in perth have 5 in stock for a good price I think. They said they have been doing about 2 a month on discos...
Almost like the old series halfshafts!
The driveline needs a shear pin like on a winch that you can just change before these things happen!
Dave

[p38arover]

Flex plates are easily obtainable. I need the drive plate as well. Mine was damaged (broken reluctor ring tooth) by bits of flying flex plate (which also destroyed the crank angle sensor).

Your crank angle sensor must be OK as the engine will start.

Ron

[George130]

Starting be glad that mine is a custom jobbie. My flex plate is like a three bladded brush cutter just very thick.

[mcrover]

No. The starter motor drives the ring gear on the drive plate which is bolted to the engine. The flex plate is mounted between the drive plate and the torque converter.

If Davros unbolts the cover plate at the bottom front of the bellhousing and has a look in, he might be able to see the broken flex plate. Also unbolt the small round cover plate from the bottom of the bellhousing and see if any bits of metal fall out. Look forward from the small round hole and you may see the broken flex plate - I can on mine.

Ron

I think you will find Ron that the Ring gear is sweated onto the flex plate on nearly any automatic trans vehicals, much the same as it is on a flywheel.

In 20 years of being a mechanic I have only seen it on a small Jap import truck where there was a flex plate then a rubber coupling to the torque converter, im asuming it was to limit the vibration going into the drivetrain.

300 TDI's do the same thing, I have seen 2 of them but I had never seen it on a TD5.

I dont have any tech info on the TD5, but if you have a parts breakdown, I would love to see it, Im not saying your wrong Ron but I find it very unlikely that they would go to the expense of doubling up on a Drive plate and a separate flex plate.

[ladas]

The ring gear is definately on the flywheel - not the flex plate

See attached

[mcrover]

My appologies, I am wrong.

Thanks Ladas for the breakdown.

[davros]

Whats the difference between these two (flex and drive plate)? I can only find "drive plate" in rave for the disco td5 (12.53.13.01)....
Confused as to whats broken on your p38a Ron, when you refer to flex and drive plates.
Dave.

[p38arover]

I think you will find Ron that the Ring gear is sweated onto the flex plate on nearly any automatic trans vehicals, much the same as it is on a flywheel.

I pulled the drive plate and flex plate out of mine the last time it failed. I took the photo shown, so I know what's there. I had to repair a broken tooth and straighten several others on the reluctor ring.

Ron

[p38arover]

The ring gear is definately on the flywheel - not the flex plate

See attached

Ahh, the Td5 uses the triangular flex plate mentioned by Edd.

Davros, the drive plate is the flywheel, the flex plate is the thin flexible plate bolted to and between the flywheel and the torque converter.

Ron

[mcrover]

I pulled the drive plate and flex plate out of mine the last time it failed. I took the photo shown, so I know what's there. I had to repair a broken tooth and straighten several others on the reluctor ring.

Ron

It's a bit of a strange set up, I wonder why they have done it that way, Might be because 300TDI Drive plates used to crack around where they bolt to the crank and they thought this might stop it.

As I stated before, I have only come across it once before on a Jap import truck that I think was a Nissan or Isuzu (it's a long time ago and that club had a few of these little tipper trucks) which was auto and had the same sort of problem but it had a rubber coupling between which I assumed was to isolate vibration away from the trans and converter.

It just seems like a bit of over kill for a car but I suppose BMW were in charge then so it might be something they do, I have never had much to do with Beamers so I wouldnt know.

Oh well, you learn something new everyday.

[p38arover]

The same system has been used in the V8 LR autos since at least 1986 when the ZF box was introduced.

The difference between early RRs and mine (GEMS engine) is that the early drive plates don't have the reluctor teeth. I believe (but haven't seen) the Thor engines reluctor ring is machined into the flywheel drive plate rather than using the pressed steel version used on the GEMS engine.

Ron

[George130]

OK
Just looked it the PDF file. Mine is an after market copy of that set up. I have the Manual flywheel so it's very chunky and then they made a flex plate similar to the triangle that Land Rover used.

[justinc]

At the mo in Denmark WA but live in the wheat belt paradise of Katanning... My nearest centre is albany. I'm into mechanics myself as I'm a design and tech teacher at the local senior high school. My other vehicle, which does not let me down, is an 88" lightweight!I'm off to get it tomorrow!
Dave

Give Trevor Bennett a ring on 98413576, he does the odd LR and is not far from the dealer....
I used to work for him, good bloke and is fussy about clean workshops and jobs finished on time....:D

JC

[davros]

The dealer has it out now they hope it'll be going tomorow fingers crossed. They have a new bwana (he is sairtheffrican) and he seems to be on the ball :). This time he got to the boys before they tried to pull off the transfer case without disconecting the CDL,:eek: which is a good sign.
Dave.
PS thanks for contact advice justinc I'll stow that for future reference!