How legal is it to rip the roof off a Landie? [Archive]

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Wilbur

25th July 2007, 02:14 PM

Hi all,

I feel the need for a bit of open top motoring, and the obvious choice is a Land Rover. They seem to be a bit thin on the ground in canvas, so I am wondering if anyone knows the legalities of just removing the roof?

Presumably some sort of arrangement would need to be made for the seatbelts on the later models, but would this apply to the early models that pre-dated seatbelt laws?

Did the canvas top models have lap-sash or just lap seatbelts?

Did any of the coil spring models come in canvas?

Very grateful for any advice.

Thanks all,

Paul

Of course, if anyone has a really good rag-top for sale, please let me know!

isuzu110

25th July 2007, 02:23 PM

These guys hire out a soft-top Defender on Fraser so it must be able to do legally

http://fraserisland4wd.com.au/vehicles/vehicles.htm#defenderspecs

Michael2

25th July 2007, 02:30 PM

BEWARE
Open Top Land Rovers are Chick Magnets

you have been warned.

scrambler

25th July 2007, 02:41 PM

In the older models, depending on age, there will be lap/sash, lap or no belts. You can fit lap-sash to some softtops (e.g. with a roll bar or raised attachment) or there are a few softtop Defenders (coil springs) around. Technically the Wagon versions (5 door) are not designed to have their roofs removed, but it's straightforward.

Wazza has a softtop Defender if you want to ask more detailed questions.

scrambler

25th July 2007, 02:43 PM

BEWARE
Open Top Land Rovers are Chick Magnets

you have been warned.
:eek:

The only chicks my Land Rovers ever pulled had feathers and beaks ;)

Gromit68

25th July 2007, 03:03 PM

JDNSW

25th July 2007, 05:51 PM

The only legal problem with roof off is the upper seat belt mount - and if pre seat belts being compulsory on commercial vehicles (197?) then it would not apply. Seat belt mounts for soft tops were made even without roll bars (see for example Series 2a/3 optional equipment catalogue) but if you are required to have seat belts you may have to get the right fitting for your year.

John

isuzurover

25th July 2007, 07:13 PM

I run around Sydney every year with no roof and the windscreen folded forward. I usually set it up this way 2 weeks before ANZAC Day and as long as I can tolerate it afterwards! (weather dependant).

My car leads the local march each year too, and the police salute it and smile.

hope this hel

There was a discussion on outerlimits (and ozjeepoffroad) about the legalities of this - looks like it is technically illegal in WA and QLD.

Bogged from ausjeepoffroad: http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php't=63397&page=3&pp=10

Dear Mr Tanner.

Thank you for your email.

In regard to your query:

It is currently illegal to drive with the windscreen folded down on a public road, as they protect the driver against airborne objects (insects, small stones kicked up by other vehicles' tyres, etc) that may impede their vision or cause injury while driving.

Given that the external mirrors are also attached to the doors, and that it is a requirement to have them on BOTH sides of the vehicle, the doors must remain on the vehicle while being driven on a public road.

If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to reply to this email. Alternatively, you can visit our website, www.dpi.wa.gov.au/licensing or call the Customer Contact Centre on 13 11 56 (inside WA) or 08 9427 6404 (outisde WA).

Yeah I know what your thinking but this not another, "can I remove my doors" post etc.

What is it about.

I have written to the QLD DOT and asked whether it is legal or not, the respondant stated with NO, as it is a modification that adversely effects the safety of the vehicle.
This was after I had stated in my initial letter that the doors (half doors in my case) are designed by the manufacturer to be removed, therefore it is not a modification and that the manufacturer specifies that the doors are only to keep the weather elements out of the vehicle, they do not offer any side impact protection.

The respondant went on to cite the following as the reasons:

Under Queensland's Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Vehicle
Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999 it is an offence to modify a road
vehicle in a way that would adversely affect its safety.

It is clear that removing a door from a motor vehicle adversely affects its
safety and therefore this is not permitted.

Side impact protection is covered in Australian Design Rule 72/00 Dynamic
Side Impact Occupant Protection and can be down loaded from the following
web address:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/56B652D4DB712B62CA2570D5001F9EB0/$file/ADR%2072-00%20[FINAL%20FRLI].pdf

My assumption is that he did not read the letter fully as he would of noted that the doors do not offer side impact protection and that they are designed to be removed therefore how is this a "Modification".

What I am after from you guys is any evidence (scanned manuals, photo's, warning signage etc.) that is from DC JEEP that verifies my argument. I have personally seen these warnings but can't for the life of me locate them. I think they were in someone elses manual, as mine does not mention door removal or the lack of side impact protection. (It only goes into detail about folding the windscreen down.)

This will only apply to TJ's with standard fitment half doors (97 - 04 I think?) as the newer model TJ's with full doors comply with the ADR referenced.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php't=107381&postdays=0&postorder=asc

LoveMyV8County

25th July 2007, 09:54 PM

As far as WA is concerned I checked this out 10+ years ago with the authorities regarding my IIA which I used to drive around with no roof most of the time.

Isuzurover's info is the same as I got... however I was told that if I wore a motorcycle helmet then it would be legal to fold the windscreen down.

chosen

25th July 2007, 10:14 PM

BEWARE
Open Top Land Rovers are Chick Magnets

you have been warned.
Yep, but only if I'm the driver!!

Wilbur

26th July 2007, 08:52 AM

Thanks all for the replies. Bit of a worry that chick magnet bit......damn, damn, damn.....

Did the later model army rag tops have lap/sash or lap only belts?

Cheers,

Paul

dobbo

26th July 2007, 08:57 AM

:eek:

The only chicks my Land Rovers ever pulled had feathers and beaks ;)

The rule doesn't apply to persons with unfortunate features

Yep, but only if I'm the driver!!

You must be a very good looking chick:D

By the way how much are them tickets you have there?

Wilbur speek to Reads90 he has a ragtop Defender, I took the roof off my SIII a few weeks ago. Apparently there are bars you can get for the Lap Sash seatbelts but I haven't found any in this country.

scrambler

26th July 2007, 09:06 AM

How much later? My 1977 Series III has lap-only. One of the Series IIIs recently photographed in Sydney (I think?) had the sash over the top of the standard seat - IMHO this isn't real safe. I have raised attachments retrofitted to a Series III FFR body - but unfortunately are specific for that body.

isuzurover

26th July 2007, 11:19 AM

Did the later model army rag tops have lap/sash or lap only belts?

If you mean the Perentie (coiller) models, they have a ROPS (Roll Over Protection System) - which is basically a double tube behind the front seats. I THINK the belts attach to that???

pre 1971?, belts were not even mandatory
From 1971 on, belts were mandatory, but I think lap-belts were legal (at least until the end of the SIII)

In QLD - there is no code for a modification that is bolt-on (factory option) - so when I turned my IIA from a hardtop into a ute, there was no need to approve anything. Same goes for converting any landie into a soft top - if it is a bolt on-off factory option. This MAY change when the NCOP is introduced.

paulthepilot_5

26th July 2007, 01:21 PM

If you mean the Perentie (coiller) models, they have a ROPS (Roll Over Protection System) - which is basically a double tube behind the front seats. I THINK the belts attach to that???

pre 1971?, belts were not even mandatory
From 1971 on, belts were mandatory, but I think lap-belts were legal (at least until the end of the SIII)

In QLD - there is no code for a modification that is bolt-on (factory option) - so when I turned my IIA from a hardtop into a ute, there was no need to approve anything. Same goes for converting any landie into a soft top - if it is a bolt on-off factory option. This MAY change when the NCOP is introduced.

I'm glad to hear that Ben, as I was still concerned about what was involved with changing the rego when you convert to a ute. Do you have to tell Qld Transport about the change from hard top to ute?

Sorry for the Hijack:)

isuzurover

26th July 2007, 02:02 PM

I'm glad to hear that Ben, as I was still concerned about what was involved with changing the rego when you convert to a ute. Do you have to tell Qld Transport about the change from hard top to ute?

Sorry for the Hijack:)

YES - you have to tell QLD transport to do it legally (and take the vehicle there so they can look at it).

The story of when I did mine:
I went to my blue plater (engineer for those in other states) to get my seats mod plated - I also asked him about the ute conversion. He told me what I wrote above - no mod code exists for it so there is nothing that needs to be approved.

I then went to QLD transport (Mt Gravatt), with a completed "change of vehicle particulars" form and told them the above (1st time I didn't have the IIA with me - they told me they needed to see it). Went back, they asked me who the engineer was who told me this (gave his name and approval number). They phoned him, then they spent 45 mins on the phone to head office, making sure this was correct. Eventually, a guy comes out, says "nice truck" and that was that.

EDIT - so given my experience, it would be worth having the details of a (friendly) engineer for transport to contact.

Wilbur

26th July 2007, 06:42 PM

scrambler

26th July 2007, 06:53 PM

isuzurover

26th July 2007, 06:54 PM

Interesting.....

Ben, what is the NCOP please? I am in NSW so it may not be relevant, but interesting all the same. When one state finds a way to take fun from motoring, others usually follow.

Cheers,

Paul

National Code Of Practice for Vehicle Modifications - AFAIK It will eventually be implemented in all states - possibly with some amendments.

It basically lists modifications that are permitted without prior approval, and those permitted with approval. When/if it is implememted it will limit the powers of engineers in places like NSW/VIC, and make things similar to the blue-plate system for mods in QLD.

I haven't read whet it says on this issue - but as far as landies go, if it was a factory option at the time, then you are usually fine in any state.

Wilbur

26th July 2007, 07:05 PM

Thanks Ben and Steve,

Let's hope the code when introduced won't be too devastating.

Good news that being a factory option makes life easier. Now I just need to find a suitable LR instead of particularly hunting for a soft-top.

Thanks again everyone,

Cheers,
Paul

paulthepilot_5

26th July 2007, 07:12 PM

YES - you have to tell QLD transport to do it legally (and take the vehicle there so they can look at it).

The story of when I did mine:
I went to my blue plater (engineer for those in other states) to get my seats mod plated - I also asked him about the ute conversion. He told me what I wrote above - no mod code exists for it so there is nothing that needs to be approved.

I then went to QLD transport (Mt Gravatt), with a completed "change of vehicle particulars" form and told them the above (1st time I didn't have the IIA with me - they told me they needed to see it). Went back, they asked me who the engineer was who told me this (gave his name and approval number). They phoned him, then they spent 45 mins on the phone to head office, making sure this was correct. Eventually, a guy comes out, says "nice truck" and that was that.

EDIT - so given my experience, it would be worth having the details of a (friendly) engineer for transport to contact.

So Ben, may I ask which friendly engineer you went too? ;)

dobbo

27th July 2007, 01:40 AM

JDNSW

27th July 2007, 05:56 AM

Paul my hardtop was registered in NSW as a three seater ute with canopy. Canopy being the roof. Therefore removal of the canopy in theory should be legal if the seatbelt mounting issues are addressed. Please note I have not tried to register it as yet so consultation from a governing body is advised and should be done before you get pinged with a fine and a defect notice.

Best of luck if it is NSW - the RTA insists my 2a is a TT (table top utility) since this is the only type of Landrover utility made in 1970, and despite the fact that they inspected it when I moved from Victoria.

John

27th July 2007, 06:03 AM

Go on do it. Soft tops are great , And defenatley get people staring at you

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/01/77.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/1015.jpg

George130

27th July 2007, 08:26 AM

I still want to do the 130:twisted:

Wilbur

27th July 2007, 08:54 AM

Wow, Reads90, now that IS a rig! What a fabulous looking vehicle.

What was that line in the bible about not coveting thy neighbours Landie?

Cheers,

Paul

isuzurover

27th July 2007, 10:59 AM

So Ben, may I ask which friendly engineer you went too? ;)

You can Paul, but unfortunately he has since closed his business and I have lost track of him. He was the proprieter of Peugeotcare on Holden St at Wooloongabba.

I exchanged a few emails with the owner of Redlands 4x4 (forget his name - peter?) - he is a landie owner and mentioned that he had an engineer he regularly used - maybe get onto him for his engineer's details - unless someone else can recommend someone.

Wazza

27th July 2007, 11:11 AM

Mine was done though techno britsh and off road custom bars.

Hope that helps

Wazza

paulthepilot_5

27th July 2007, 09:13 PM

Ok thanks for that, I will give Redlands a call and see if i can get hold of one that knows a bit about landys

Cheers
Paul

sclarke

28th July 2007, 09:53 AM

scrambler

28th July 2007, 09:56 AM

It's a tough life you live! :D:D

paulthepilot_5

28th July 2007, 11:18 AM

Chick magnet...... HA......

Try a Zebra defender Ute........

I get stacks of "P"Plater chicks waving and smiling.....
Damn i hate it.... nothing worse than 18yo cute girls smiling at a Feral bum like me........ :):)

Sclark, so do you want to swap trucks for a week, and I will look after the 18yo P Plater chicks for you...:cool: