4bd1 and 4bd1-t Pricing

[nick b]

Guys am looking around for a 4bd1 or T version to fit to my 130 Fender and ditch the 300tdi but a want to know what people have been paying for them and the ancillaries needed to fit as am trying to fit a GT28R into the budget. also if I am running 33" tyres and have to go for a LT95A to handle the Torque am I going to need to do anything different to the diff ratio's and or speedo?

[isuzurover]

I have seen prices from $3-5k for a complete 4BD1(T) in good nick. I also know a few that went for $500-800 - unknown history and missing bits like the injector pump.

Truck motors need some mods to fit. Sump, Oil Filter, Starter.

You will need a (custom) adaptor if you want to use your R380. But unless you can find a recently reconditioned LT85, I would go the R380 over an LT95. The LT95 is very strong, but you will miss 5th on the highway.

You will also need to fit 1.003:1 T-case gears to your LT230. I run 33's on my 110. The gearing is a bit tall atm, but when the turbo goes on I am sure it will be perfect.

The GT28 may be too large. I would stick with a T25.

[nick b]

in regards to the turbo choice the GT28R is what the turbo software and ARB's turbo guys and Grret recomended to me AS the 4bd1 had such a long strok that it has no problem spining a Ball bearing turbo of that size and will be perfect for 15psi boost with a cooler. its just that everone include Mal at Maxi Drive reckons the r360 and the Lt85 with his bearing kit will live a short life behind it. I would prefer to run an Isuzu 6 speed but non of the engineers in Brisvagusa that i have spoken to are interested in making an adapter to fit it to the lt230

[mudmouse]

Hi Nick. I got quoted just under $8k for a 'rebuilt' 4bd1-t at a truck wrecker in Sydney. I was just passing at the time, so i don't know what their interpretation of rebuilt was.... There's also some posts in the tech forum on this conversion. There's a few importers of the Chinese copy of the turbo - complete for $6750 - includes all ancillaries, but no info on their quality. At this stage the info is limited to a heavier casting. I think they weigh in at 460 odd kilos:eek:

Queensland Motor Recyclers (QMR) advertise them in some of the truck part mags - non turbos are about $4k.

Hope this help - if you do go the Zuzu let us know...i'm trying to justify the budget with my SWMBO:D

[DRanged]

in regards to the turbo choice the GT28R is what the turbo software and ARB's turbo guys and Grret recomended to me AS the 4bd1 had such a long strok that it has no problem spining a Ball bearing turbo of that size and will be perfect for 15psi boost with a cooler. its just that everone include Mal at Maxi Drive reckons the r360 and the Lt85 with his bearing kit will live a short life behind it. I would prefer to run an Isuzu 6 speed but non of the engineers in Brisvagusa that i have spoken to are interested in making an adapter to fit it to the lt230

There are a lot of people who reckon the R380 wont last behind an Isuzu. Well I actually have an R380 behind mine. It runs 10psi boost, 35" tyres on 4:1 diffs and has been running great for 3 years now. It all depends on who builds the gearbox, and how your drive it. I know Mal very well but he has not got an R380 behind an Isuzu!!

Justin

[WildOne]

Hope this help - if you do go the Zuzu let us know...i'm trying to justify the budget with my SWMBO:D[/QUOTE]

Good luck with that:o
We should start a thread on what mod we want to do = what justification we have to do it:D

[mudmouse]

Hope this help - if you do go the Zuzu let us know...i'm trying to justify the budget with my SWMBO:D

Good luck with that:o
We should start a thread on what mod we want to do = what justification we have to do it:D[/QUOTE]

Yeah i know...i like the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" quote.

Also, there's an american site for 4bd1's into Cruisers - they talk about the LT230 behind a Toymota 5sp or the NV4500. See if these links work...

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/4bd.html


Surely an adapter for the Isuzu box can't be that hard..

[justinc]

Hope this help - if you do go the Zuzu let us know...i'm trying to justify the budget with my SWMBO:D

Good luck with that:o
We should start a thread on what mod we want to do = what justification we have to do it:D[/QUOTE]

I don't need the justification/ explanation, My misses loves everything I do to the Rangie, as she thinks it is hers anyway!!!:o:o


The only sticking point was the conversion to manual'box. Now she has got used to it and the reliability is better she is hard to get out from behind the wheel!!!:D:mad:

JC

[mudmouse]

Hmmmm....you could leave something that stinks under the seat...or lock all the radio stations onto one she hates:twisted: ..that might get her to hand over the keys..

[justinc]

Hmmmm....you could leave something that stinks under the seat...or lock all the radio stations onto one she hates:twisted: ..that might get her to hand over the keys..

Well, we are used to smelly things like bits of school lunches left under the seats, and there is no wireless anyway, This is a working Rangie:D
So, in order to get the keys first, I have to explain that I need the car to repair or mod and then it is all good....:cool:

Sometimes she just lets me drive it if I have been good.:(


( All of the above is very TIC)

JC

[Leo109]

Sometimes she just lets me drive it if I have been good.:(

That must be a pretty rare occurrence!:D

BTW, Daphne Disco now goes slower a lot faster since replacing the servo. Thanks for your help with that and hope your feeling much better again.


PS: Apologies to Nick - gone way off thread here.

[Bush65]

in regards to the turbo choice the GT28R is what the turbo software and ARB's turbo guys and Grret recomended to me AS the 4bd1 had such a long strok that it has no problem spining a Ball bearing turbo of that size and will be perfect for 15psi boost with a cooler. its just that everone include Mal at Maxi Drive reckons the r360 and the Lt85 with his bearing kit will live a short life behind it. I would prefer to run an Isuzu 6 speed but non of the engineers in Brisvagusa that i have spoken to are interested in making an adapter to fit it to the lt230
Without delving too hard, I thought a GT28R would be in the ball park for the 4BD1-T. But someone in NZ tried a 28 size bushed turbo on one and found it too large - now going to compound turbos (will be very interesting).

I have a 25 size variable nozzle turbo that I want to try on mine.

When I get some other work done on my rangie, I want to fit the 4BD1-T from my bushie. This has an Isuzu MXA-6R 6 speed box.

I did not use an LT230 in the bushie. I want to use the LT230 from the rangie behind the 4BD1-T and MXA-6R.

I have started to look at the conversion, but need to strip the extension housing from the 6 speed before deciding what to do. I want to make it as short as possible.

With regards to R380 behind a 4BD1-T. I accept that others have success. But there are strength issues with the early R380. Suffix J break mainshafts. Suffix K were improved. Suffix L is strongest.

However, I find that the R380 has issues with lubrication life (Castrol Syntrans) in my 98 Disco 300Tdi. IMHO they need a cooler for hard work behind a 300Tdi, and I personally wouldn't use one behind a 4BD1-T.

IMHO, changing the turbo to increase boost/power is not as much of an issue with gearbox life as the impulsive loads at/near idling speed.

[nick b]

Dranged Who made your adapter to R380 and will they do another :) and how much?

[nick b]

in regards to turbos here is the so called secret :)

Don't use turbo's that arent a Ball bearing type. you can run a turbo a few sizes up if it a BB type as for eg on the 4bd1 if you ran a ball bearing type in a 28 or even a large hi flowed 28 it will allready be running at full boost ie 15 to 17 psi before 1000rpm thats how big a difference there is. they just simply spool up a whole lote more quicker. the guys that buy non bb type turbos andf fork out all that noey when picking up new ones don't normally get told to fit bb types for the extra 150 bucks or so and on a diesel you want it to spool up at really low revs so that there is torque whrere you need it. for those that want to know there is not much difference between a GT25 and a GT28 trubo they are actually the same just one won't choke the engine once the revs pick up.

hope this info helps is i got more technical aboout trim and ar. ratings poeple get lost in the gargin even me sometimes he he

[Bush65]

... for those that want to know there is not much difference between a GT25 and a GT28 trubo they are actually the same just one won't choke the engine once the revs pick up.

hope this info helps is i got more technical aboout trim and ar. ratings poeple get lost in the gargin even me sometimes he he
I was thinking along the lines of the GT28RS (Disco Potato). What trim and A/R do you think would be best with this turbo on a 4BD1-T with air/water intercooler?

[1103.9TDI]

in regards to turbos here is the so called secret

Don't use turbo's that arent a Ball bearing type. you can run a turbo a few sizes up if it a BB type as for eg on the 4bd1 if you ran a ball bearing type in a 28 or even a large hi flowed 28 it will allready be running at full boost ie 15 to 17 psi before 1000rpm thats how big a difference there is. they just simply spool up a whole lote more quicker. the guys that buy non bb type turbos andf fork out all that noey when picking up new ones don't normally get told to fit bb types for the extra 150 bucks or so and on a diesel you want it to spool up at really low revs so that there is torque whrere you need it. for those that want to know there is not much difference between a GT25 and a GT28 trubo they are actually the same just one won't choke the engine once the revs pick up.


So why would Isuzu, being the primary manufacturer of the extremely reliable 4BD1T, have fitted as standard, a IHI non-bearing turbo, that lasts forever?.
I would have thought, boost(PSI) would have depended more on the size of the impellor(momentum), the wastegate, and the boost compensator(fuel) rather than bearings, though in some very high performance applications, this may be true.
I would also be interested to know the difference in friction, between a running BB turbo, and a floating shaft turbo, after all, I have seen many BB turbo's that are fluid-cooled(as against just oil), but no floating shaft in diesel applications that require fluid cooling.
G*rret do not have a good name with regard to longevity within the trucking industry, just ask those drivers that forked out big bucks for the latest V#lvo rigs fitted with their turbo's.
I would respectfully suggest that most ARB blokes are an authority on everything!. Do ARB actually make turbo's now?.

[Bush65]

So why would Isuzu, being the primary manufacturer of the extremely reliable 4BD1T, have fitted as standard, a IHI non-bearing turbo, that lasts forever?.
I would have thought, boost(PSI) would have depended more on the size of the impellor(momentum), the wastegate, and the boost compensator(fuel) rather than bearings, though in some very high performance applications, this may be true.
I would also be interested to know the difference in friction, between a running BB turbo, and a floating shaft turbo, after all, I have seen many BB turbo's that are fluid-cooled(as against just oil), but no floating shaft in diesel applications that require fluid cooling.
G*rret do not have a good name with regard to longevity within the trucking industry, just ask those drivers that forked out big bucks for the latest V#lvo rigs fitted with their turbo's.
I would respectfully suggest that most ARB blokes are an authority on everything!. Do ARB actually make turbo's now?.
AFAIK, Isuzu fitted 2 different turbos to the 4BD1-T. The IHI as mentioned and a Garrett.

I have read that the IHI was used on domestic (Japan) vehicles and the Garrett on export vehicles.

Mine had the stock Garrett turbo, which has sleeve bearings and is water cooled.

[1103.9TDI]

Yeah, I didn't say any diferent
fitted as standard, a IHI non-bearing turbo, not only as standard.
Many trucks that were imported into Australia by Isuzu, the 6be6, both civil and ADF, use the IHI unit on the 4BD1T. This may be because their's is the earlier version of the engine, thus slightly less horsepower, but I fail to see the relationship between horsepower and the fact that the turbo is a bearing unit or free floating, in fact it could be argued that free floating has less friction!.
if you ran a ball bearing type in a 28 or even a large hi flowed 28 it will allready be running at full boost ie 15 to 17 psi before 1000rpm thats how big a difference there is The difference is in the size of the turbo, impellors, rotors, speed, wastegate and then fuel adjustment(s), intercooling and the efficiency of the connecting plumbing. It's frustrating to ask advice of so called experts, within the 4x4 industry, and find out later, that they were talking shyte. There are many who promote themselves as 'gurus', but very few actually are, internet forums are full of them.

[DRanged]

Dranged Who made your adapter to R380 and will they do another :) and how much?

You will need an LT85 bellhousing and KLR Automotive in Kingswood, Sydney can do it for you. $400 - $500 I think.

Justin.

ps When I have some time I will be looking at an Isuzu gearbox to LT230 for the future. 6 speed would be superb.

[isuzurover]

Interesting comments Gerry. Just so happens I was reading my ISUZU manual the other day, and in the specs they stated that the optional Garrett TD25 (non wastegated) has a higher max RPM than the IHI (by about 50k rpm from memory). I don't know if this is a manufacturer's specification or what it spins to in reality. Both are non ball bearing of course.

I am interested that you talk about "free floating" turbos - I once had a large Rayjay turbo, and although in good condition, it took a surprising amount of effort to turn the impeller - does your IHI spin easily?




Yeah, I didn't say any diferent not only as standard.
Many trucks that were imported into Australia by Isuzu, the 6be6, both civil and ADF, use the IHI unit on the 4BD1T. This may be because their's is the earlier version of the engine, thus slightly less horsepower, but I fail to see the relationship between horsepower and the fact that the turbo is a bearing unit or free floating, in fact it could be argued that free floating has less friction!. The difference is in the size of the turbo, impellors, rotors, speed, wastegate and then fuel adjustment(s), intercooling and the efficiency of the connecting plumbing. It's frustrating to ask advice of so called experts, within the 4x4 industry, and find out later, that they were talking shyte. There are many who promote themselves as 'gurus', but very few actually are, internet forums are full of them.

[Bush65]

Yeah, I didn't say any diferent ... not only as standard...
Sorry. I took your post to imply that sleeve bearing turbos are more reliable because otherwise why would Isuzu use them.

So why would Isuzu, being the primary manufacturer of the extremely reliable 4BD1T, have fitted as standard, a IHI non-bearing turbo, that lasts forever?

Then you went on to state:

G*rret do not have a good name with regard to longevity within the trucking industry

I pointed out that Isuzu also fitted Garrett turbos on the 4BD1-T.

[isuzurover]

Anyone know if the T25 and GT28 have the same mount pattern? I have heard conflicting info.

I might just see if I can track down a (2nd hand) one of each when I do my conversion to see which works better.

T25 from a C18DET
What was the GT28RS (Disco Potato) fitted standard to?
Or the GT28R is also a possibility (the S refers to a higher flow version)

EDIT:
This graph from Garret is interesting:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/tech_center/Tech101_speed.jpg