Advice on new second hand Series 2 1999 TD5

[Chazb]

Hello All,

This is my first post to the forum (just joined yesterday), so bear with me if I dont quite have the right jargon! I'm also not particularly mechanically minded and have never owned a 4WD before, but am looking for, and have my heart set on, a Land Rover Discovery Series 2 for recreational weekend use and a commuter during the week.

So basically I'm after some advice on purchasing a second hand TD5 please. I have seen a number around Melbourne so far (been looking for the last 3 weeks), some real crappy ones, but a few clean ones.

My criteria are: Diesel/Manual or Auto/>1999/not a beige interior/as low K's as poss/no or not much off road work/clean inside and out.

One I am interested in (and have taken for a drive which checked out ok as far as I could tell) is a manual TD5 from 1999 with 136000K's. The guy is asking $23200. Tyres are 60% rear & spare, 80% front. He's done some towing a small camper trailer. Selling for a valid reason (new car is already on his driveway). Service history is full. New clutch and fly wheel 8000k's ago. New viscous fan and thermostat. Also the vehicle has 7 seats therefore rear SLS. TJM bullbar.

He has done recent oil changes himself (both filters) and also a few aftermarket parts are fitted - dual battery and a mechanical (not electrical) CDL mechanism fitted operated by key fitted into the console when required. He seems to have been pretty involved with the car in terms of servicing and keeping up to date with recalls, etc (and posting/enquiring on this forum, so will probably read this post!).

Any thoughts on the price and/or these type of accessories and whether I should steer clear?

Many thanks in advance,
Chaz.

[Chazb]

Oh and a new front tail shaft replaced not because of off road work damage (it has done none apparently), but as it was recommended as the joints can dry up on this model......

[Taz]

Sounds a bit rich. And the low k's is not necessarily a good indicator - a car with higher mileage with good maintainance history may last longer. There are people on this forum who have paid less than 15k for good Td5 D2's.
The good thing about the early Td5's is that you get the center diff lock. The bad thing is that they had a reputation for having problems with the fuel injection electrical harness - oil wicks up the harness and gets to the sensors which start giving false readings making the ECU have fits. However I've heard this happening to later models too. And it seems the cost of a replacement harness has come down drastically - I think I heard of figure of around $300 (can any one confirm?)
Good luck,
Cheers,
Taz.

[Disco Steve]

Yeh does sound a bit pricey. I paid $18000 for my 02 TD5. Auto, with bull bar..... I'd do some shopping.
saying that its a dam nice truck.

[LandyAndy]

If it has done no off-roading,why the fitting of the CDL acuator?????
They are only fitted to improve the already very good off-road capability!!!!!!
The unis on the front tailshaft can be a problem.
Search the following on this site for more D2 problems.
try OIL IN THE HARNESS,HEAD GASKETS,FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR,THE 3 AMIGOS(traction control/abs/hdc lights on).
Not trying to put you off,love my D2,but they can be a can of worms.
Do lots of post reading and go in with both eyes WIDE OPEN!!!!
Goodluck.
Andrew

[peaches]

Chazb,

Like you I had decided on a Disco S11 Td5 . Spent a lot of time searching forums and came to the conclusion that all 4X4's are expensive to maintain .There seems to be a love or hate relationship for the Pommy brand. I found my Td5 in Melbourne and after cheching it best I could decided to buy it. Guy was asking for $19500 with only 123,000km and fitted with Bullbar and IPF driving lights - I offered him $17,000 and he accepted. After getting it cheched by local mechanic he confirms it is a pretty good one so hope this helps you decide about pricing.

Cheers
Peaches

[MickG]

I have a '99 Manual TD5 Disco and bought it from a dealer 3 years ago for $24,000 with 90,000 k's on it. Also took out an aftermarket warranty with it which paid for around $4000 worth of repairs including new injector harness due to oil in it, new radiator etc etc - I recomend getting after market waranty if you can for as long as you can. As mentioned already, ALL cars have issues, so just make sure you get one with a full service history, ask how often the oils are changed etc etc. I have spent a small fortune on my car both in modifying and repairing it but I love the thing to death and am unlikely to ever part with it as somtimes, your bettter with the devil you know if you know what I mean.
Sounds a bit too expensive even if it is in great nick with SLS, and as suggested do searches in this forum as you will find almost everything you need to know about the early TD5's.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

Aye, Mick

[Chazb]

Well, I didnt go ahead with the manual 99 TD5, price wouldn't come down and I wasn't 100% about the car anyway.

So I am still looking, and am off to check out this white 2001 TD5 today:

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!dealer_content.dealer_vehicle'vehicle_id=4503271&current_rec=1&total_rec=5&sort_type=1&dealer_id=262&make_id=18

Its a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but it's pretty clean, also it doesnt have any extras fitted which is a shame, but gives me the opportunity to get what I want at a later stage I guess.

Anyway I have a couple of questions please.....

Are you able to tell from the VIN whether it has CDL fitted (I think I am right in saying fitted, but not activated - as opposed to a kit which, from the dash/gears, I didnt see anything like a kit/lever)? If not how do I check the actual build date - is it imprinted on the chassis/transfer casing somewhere?

Either oil or fuel is leaking from somewhere, dripping over the transfer casing (I think its the transfer casing! Large bronze coloured casing near the front of the car, at the back of the engine, close to the road!?). Is this something to be worried about? I mentioned it to the dealer and he said he'll get it fixed up.

Thanks,
Chaz.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hi Chazb,,

not trying to scare you
forewarned is forearmed
go here,,
read EVERYTHING marked D2
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/forumdisplay.php?f=116,,

I liked my disco so much,,
I bought another one:angel:

[Chazb]

Thanks Pedro. I haven't quite been scared off yet, but I'm thinking extended warranty is the way forward with a D2!

I'm off to Frankston now to check the car over again, and before I sign anything I'm going to try getting him down from his sticker price (which he seems reluctant to do), plus try to get warranty for as long as possible. And of course get an RACV check done - specifically mentioning the oil/fuel leak - before handing over any cash.

I'll get the dealer to say what he reckons the leak is (they are a 4x4 specialist so hopefully he has some knowhow of Land Rovers) and try to find out the actual build date.

Ta,
Chaz.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

the info---



"you need to check the build date, not rego date on LR.

the D2 was released in England in late 1998, when it came to Australia it was released in 1999.

The Vin number is the only way to get model changes correct.

(eg) for CDL in or not.

If you have the diff lock stud on your unit you will only require the linkage parts, to determine this you will need to find the transfer case serial number and check it starts with either 41D or 42D.

If it starts with 61D, 62D, 69D or 70D then you will need the diff lock parts to go in the transfer case.

This is strange i know, but it's the way it is here, my D2 has a build date of august 2000, but was released as a 2001 model buy LR.

The model change is mid year, june/july/august approx:confused: "

Thanks Baz.;)

[Chazb]

OK, I am now the proud owner of a Land Rover Discovery TD5!

I went for a manual black 2001 TD5 at Graham Powell Mazda garage in Seaford. 172000Km's. Cost $20830 drive away. (Not sure if link below works, I'll maybe post a pic when I pick it up):

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/LAND_ROVER/DISCOVERY/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32|1||pCar_Pr ice_Decimal|0&Make=LAND%20ROVER&State=Victoria&__Nne=20&Region=State%20Wide&R=1573856&state_id=903&distance=25&__Dx=mode+matchany&trecs=30&Model=DISCOVERY&RegionID=789&__N=4294965541+903+4294965540+789+834+285+258+287&__Ntk=CarAll&silo=1000&keywords=td5&__sid=111757E33660&Cr=6&__D=td5&seot=0&__Ntt=td5&__Ntx=mode+matchallpartial

It was very clean inside, although both front seats had a gash on the side, but he'll fix them up. Paintwork was good. Undercarriage was a bit messy with oil leaks, but RWC still to be done and should sort out anything serious, plus I arranged for an RACV inspection to and requested they pay special attention to this.

So now its just insurance to sort and finance to finalise, then all the fun extras to buy, oh and then driving it of course!

Thanks for all your feedback so far, I am sure I'll be back for more advice on all things Land Rover soon. :D

[Defender=1st]

Congrats mate

[MickG]

Well done mate, keep us posted as you go.

[LandyAndy]

Well done.
BlackBettys little sister:D:D:D:D
May look nice and clean at the moment,but they tend to get a bit dirty,like this
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/172.jpg
:D:D:D:D:D:D
Goodluck with the new Disco,you will love it!!!!
Andrew

[Chazb]

I had a bit of a sleepless night last night worrying about the oil leaks that I saw on the car I bought yesterday!

I'd appreciate some advice on the following if possible please?

- It is written into the contract I signed yesterday "Sold subject to satisfactory RACV test". Does this mean the dealer has to fix all issues identified (apart from any minor wear/tear like small paintchips, etc)? If he doesn't am I able to re-negotiate on price and therefore get the original contract price amended taking into account repairs I'll have to do for example?

- Also in the contract in "Additional Conditions" he wrote "oil leaks" amongst a few other points, as I wanted something down about them. So the dealer should, at a minimum, clean up any oil seepages, and for anything more "serious", e.g. head gasket leak or transfer case seal or something, fix it, whether that means replacing gaskets or whatever. Is that a correct assumption?!

- What is included in the RWC (as dealer said any leak that constitues a failure in the RWC will be fixed) in terms of oil leaks? Anything specific to the Land Rover's known problems with leaks, e.g. oil in the harness/transfer case seal, etc etc?

Sorry if it sounds like I am going on about the leaks! I am new to 2nd hand 4wd car buying, and just worried about my new purchase. I want to be able to drive away happy that nothing serious is leaking only "acceptable, minor" leaks which the Disco's seem prone to. It does have a 3 month/5000k warranty, so I guess if I find anything within that period I just whip it back in and they have to fix it.....

Thanks
(Paranoid) Chaz.

[Gromit68]

You have a cooling off period of 3 working days. So if you're not happy with the RACV test; you can back out at no charge.

If it was me, I wouldn't take delivery of a $20k car that was leaking oil from various components. Ensure they haven't just degreased it too!

Good luck - remember, it's your hard earned cash you are handing over. There are plenty of cars out there...

Alastair

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if the RACV come back with a huge bill,, the dealer may just offer you a lower price----

I would much rather get work done by a reputable LR workshop, and pay the extra,, than have a caryard fix it,,,

[Chazb]

Well, I got the RACV inspection back....if anyone is interested in this, I'd appreciate some 2nd/3rd opinions:

As I suspected there are a number of leaks: Two around the engine - valve/timing cover and engine assy lower drv-side, are marked for Immediate Attention.

Other items are marked Early Attention required - oil leaks below battery tray/ECU. Oil level is also noted as overfull. Upper engine cover loose. Coolant appears diluted and is leaking on engine block pass-side. Rear tailshaft/rear coupling is starting to split. Transfer case is leaking and roadtest showed driveline vibration.

Some of the above are noted as "wetness" as opposed to leakages, but I guess its hard to tell (even for RACV) when the engine bay has not been cleaned beforehand.

Other than that the windscreen needs replacing and a headlight is slightly loose, plus the usual wear & tear comments (although personally I thought it was quite clean inside) and some other minor observations about chips/paint/clips missing, etc. Nothing I am too worried about.

The RACV overall rating was amber=caution, although they noted the car is in reasonably good condition and drove well on the roadtest.

Does it sound like a lemon to any of you guys or do you think once the RWC is done and the dealer has fixed it (its a Mazda dealer so I guess they'll do the work rather than a LR dealer), plus I'll be paying for a retest by RACV, it *should* be ok for $20k? I have read about some of the items listed as typical, e.g. transfer case leaking and the rear tailshaft joints, so hope they are easy ones to fix for example.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks! :cool:
Chaz.

[MickG]

I will only let you know what I would do but bear in mind I am not a mechanic by any standard, simply a D2 owner. I would keep searching for another......sounds like there a few things that need attention so perhaps if you are considering it, another test drive but this time to a LR specialist......things aint cheap on a D2 if you have to replace them. Split tail shaft coupling may explain drive line vabration, and perhaps a good opportunity to upgrade to the greasable kind if you buy it.
I would also be hesitant about buying from a non LR dealer as well......may have been traded for a mazzda by some disgruntled D2 owner because of all it's problems.
Anyway, just my opinion if I had a report back like that.

Keep us posted and good luck

[Pedro_The_Swift]

lots of cars around,,,,:angel:

[Chazb]

Ok, I am posting with my tail between my legs a little bit, but am also really bloody annoyed with the dealer, so wanted to a) vent some anger and b) ask for some advice:

The story so far is that I signed the sale contract on 18th Aug with additional conditions "RWC (check windscreen), Oil leaks and subject to satisfactory RACV inspection" - this is the exact wording. I paid a $500 deposit and then arranged for an RACV check to be done on 20th Aug. The check came back amber - as I have previously mentioned - a few "immediates" and a number of "early attentions" marked - most of the items that are legally RWC items (oil leaks, not weaps; windscreen chipped; headlight loose) and a few which I considered not satisfactory (rear coupling joint split; oil around battery tray/ECU - which I believe is the dreaded oil in the harness problem?), etc.

SO....the car was at the dealers for a total of 11 days for them to fix up all the above and do a RWC (which they do themselves). I booked an RACV re-inspection for Friday 31st (at my expense, so I've now spent $300 on RACV checks) and lo-and-behold....the dealer had done 2 things, TWO THINGS, one was what I had asked them to do anyway (and they were going to charge me an extra $225 for the privilege) that was the rear coupling joint replacement, the other was the rocker cover gasket.

First off I called RACV and spoke to the guy who did the inspection. He says nice car, but the dealer has hardly done anything since the original check, not even steam cleaned the engine bay. He agrees with me that the report is "unsatisfacrtory". He also thought that the oil around the battery and ECU was the harness, and that a local landy shop he spoke to confirmed it.

Next I call the dealer and ask what the hell have they been doing for two weeks? I get a lot of hot air spurted back at me, such as cant steamclean due to water restrictions, the joint has been replaced (at my cost dont forget), the rocker cover gasket was done, AND they tell me an RWC has been done BUT wait....the windscreen and headlight were not fixed but somehow it passed the RWC!? How does that work?!

(This is turning into a rant, sorry).

So I slept on it, the dealer calls me Saturday morning to say they are now working on it, they have fixed the headlight and are cleaning up the oil leaks bla bla. I told him I want to cancel the sale contract.

He tried to keep me for a while then folded. He said I am outside my cooling off period, which I know, but I want my deposit back as they have not met their side of the contract, i.e. mainly the RACV inspection was not satisfactory and they have had 2 weeks to fix it up since the original (all the while I am without car).

I emailed so they have it in writing. Is there anything else I can/should do and do you guys think that I am right and that they should refund my deposit? I am at the point where I will involve consumer affairs Vic if they come back to me on Monday and try to force anything on me....

I'm also very p*ssed off with this dealer who say they have 35 years in the business, customer service, etc etc. And I am basically back to square one without a car again and have to go through the full process of shopping around, negotiating etc.

Any advice appreciated.

[Chazb]

Sheesh, that was a long post/rant, sorry.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Dont be sorry about the post,;)



I'm sure they will return the money,,

He's just ****ed off at the loss of a sale.

Keep looking,, yours is out there somewhere:D

[Chazb]

Thanks Pedro. I figure the very worst scenario is I lose my $500 deposit plus the $300 on RACV checks, but by the way the dealership have treated me and the care they have not given to the car I guess this may be a blessing in disguise....I do still worry, stupidly I am sure, that they will try to force me into the sale still. I am pretty sure of my rights though, and that they have broken the contract by not getting a satisfactory RACV report, so I'll have to stick to my guns.

I test drove this private sale one yesterday:

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/DISCOVERY/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1| |pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_Da teTime|1&Make=LAND%20ROVER&State=Victoria&PriceMax=25000&state_id=82&PriceMin=15000&__Dx=mode+matchany&trecs=11&Model=DISCOVERY&__Nne=20&__N=4294965541+82+393+413+4294965540+834+285+257&__Ntk=CarAll&silo=1003&keywords=td5&__sid=111757E33660&Cr=0&distance=25&__D=td5&seot=0&__Ntt=td5&__Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&R=1570048

All looks ok, but I reckon I should knock they guy down at least a grand maybe more.....

[Chazb]

Oh, one more thing about pulling out of the sales contract...

The dealer didnt put a delivery date on it, BUT they have had two weeks to fix up the issues in the RACV inspection and I verbally agreed that I'd be picking up the car yesterday (which I didnt obviously as it was far from ready).

Is this a strong enough argument to pull out and/or should I threaten Consumer Affairs involvement if they start making noises about not refunding my deposit?

[LandyAndy]

Tell them in a nice way
GIVE ME THE ****** DEPOSIT BACK OR IM TALKING TO CURRENT AFFAIRS!!!!!
Bet they give it back
They wont want their kind of publicity I bet:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I test drove this private sale one yesterday:

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/DISCOVERY/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1| |pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_Da teTime|1&Make=LAND%20ROVER&State=Victoria&PriceMax=25000&state_id=82&PriceMin=15000&__Dx=mode+matchany&trecs=11&Model=DISCOVERY&__Nne=20&__N=4294965541+82+393+413+4294965540+834+285+257&__Ntk=CarAll&silo=1003&keywords=td5&__sid=111757E33660&Cr=0&distance=25&__D=td5&seot=0&__Ntt=td5&__Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&R=1570048

All looks ok, but I reckon I should knock they guy down at least a grand maybe more.....


GONE!!!!

[Gromit68]

I think you need to tread carefully here.

Threatening them with law suits and involving the media are rather heavy handed methods that may have consequences for you further down the track.

For your own sake Chaz, it's probably worth a telephone call to Vic. Consumer Affairs for some free advice. www.consumer.vic.gov.au

You are well outside the cooling off period, however the dealer appears to be unreasonable with the amount of work he agreed to fix prior to delivery.

At the end of the day, the dealer was trying to:
(a) make a sale out of a car they don't routinely sell (ie. keen to be rid of it)
(b) probably aren't making much money on it anyway

Once you get out of the contract, try the specialist Land Rover dealers for cars. e.g. Ritters, ULR, MLR etc.
Also try the LROCV for members cars. That way you will be buying something that is a bit more of a 'known quantity', rather than a car with unknown history.

All the best and keep your cool, Chaz.

Regards,
Alastair

[rovercare]

Tell them if you don't recieve your deposit returned, you'll be making an official complaint to Vicroads;)

[Bushwanderer]

I know that you haven't said it, but now I'll avoid "Oz Cars" just like I will "Jensens 4x4". :mad::mad::mad:

[Chazb]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll tread carefully and hopefully they'll play ball without too much fuss. If not I'll go Consumer Affairs first and discretely, then Vicroads officially.

Pedro - do you mean the Disco I pasted the URL too earlier today has been sold or are you saying I should snap it up?!

Bushwanderer, I have to correct you - its actually a Mazda dealer not Oz Cars. If they dont refund my deposit I'll post full details here!

Cheers.
Chaz.

[Bushwanderer]

Hi,
Thanks for the correction. I'd hate to malign a dealer:o.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

dunno,, I clicked the link and was told car no longer available,,,,

someone took it,,,,:D

[Chazb]

Weird, its definitely still there....try this:

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/DISCOVERY/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1| |pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_Da teTime|1&Make=LAND%20ROVER&__Nne=20&State=Victoria&l=pu&PriceMax=25000&state_id=82&__N=4294965541%2082%20393%20413%204294965540%20834 %20285%20257&PriceMin=15000&__Dx=mode%20matchany&trecs=10&Model=DISCOVERY&__sid=1115475C9790&__Ntk=CarAll&silo=1003&keywords=td5&Cr=0&distance=25&__D=td5&seot=0&__Ntt=td5&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&R=1570048

It is a 99 TD5 manual with ACE and SLS. 157,000kms. Bit tricky as the guy has someone else interested and some work to fix up with the RWC, so will want to get close to his asking price....

[Disco Steve]

Weird, its definitely still there....try this:

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/DISCOVERY/details.aspx?__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1| |pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_Da teTime|1&Make=LAND%20ROVER&__Nne=20&State=Victoria&l=pu&PriceMax=25000&state_id=82&__N=4294965541%2082%20393%20413%204294965540%20834 %20285%20257&PriceMin=15000&__Dx=mode%20matchany&trecs=10&Model=DISCOVERY&__sid=1115475C9790&__Ntk=CarAll&silo=1003&keywords=td5&Cr=0&distance=25&__D=td5&seot=0&__Ntt=td5&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&R=1570048

It is a 99 TD5 manual with ACE and SLS. 157,000kms. Bit tricky as the guy has someone else interested and some work to fix up with the RWC, so will want to get close to his asking price....

Looks like a nice one.

[Felixaustralis]

Hi Chazb, I have just jointed too and we must have been following each other around - I was also serious about the one at Oz 4wd, but a bit put off by the unwillingness to negotiate price. That one is very nice and I had it 'looked at' by a LR 'specialist' (my brother who has the LR disease too - and is an engineer - so a little on the fussy side). I am cooling my heals until I have fewer vehicles read 2 LRs taking up my driveway; and like you will continue to search for that ellusive TD5. Good Luck.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

found it!

nice colour,,

flares look funny without the side-mouldings,,

[Chazb]

Alright guys, I've now had my Disco SII for 2 weeks and am well chuffed. I bought a 99 TD5 manual via private sale and had a much better buying from a nice chap in Hampton, than my experience with Mazda in Frankston. I've actually complained to Mazda HQ and am about to go to Consumer Affairs as I still dont have my deposit back from the cowboys in Frankston. We'll see......

Anyway, on a lighter note I am planning accessories for the Disco at the moment, top of the list being bullbar and dual battery, plus some more minor additions like snatch strap, led worklight, first aid, etc. Then cosmetic/luxury additions like sidesteps! Perhaps CDL one day, depends how much I decide to go off the black stuff I guess. Car came with ACE and rear SLS, so lots to enjoy/go wrong there ;) Major 160,000K service coming up end of this month which I hope doesnt go much over $700 at Melbourne City LR :(

My first bit of spending already, as I am 95% commuting, has been a Sony 460U unit with USB port for some tunes, hopefully the factory speakers will last for a bit with the new unit ....

And finally I'm off to the Great Ocean Road this weekend for a surf with some mates and cant wait to strap the board to the roof and get the car driven somewhere other than my daily commute down the Beach Road!

Thanks to all for all the advice along the way and I'll be back soon for some more I am sure :D

Cheers,
Chaz.

PS Pedro, it does have side mouldings, they just arent that visible cos of the colour!

4123

[Defender=1st]

Nice looking Disco mate

[Studio54]

Luckily for you Chaz car yards rarely come out of disputes on top. Go in there and be honest, they can spend another $2000.00 fixing the car to your satisfaction as per the inspection or they can give you your money back and come back to work tomorrow and flog at full price with out fixing it to some one less astute. There is one born every minute.

The other thing to consider is that a dealer trying this hard to quit a TD5 knows more than hes letting on. This could be fate intervening for a reason.