300Tdi Timing belt, What went wrong.... EVERYTHING

[sclarke]

Guys, Gals, Mutts and Pussy's
Yesterday i changed the Timing belt on Grommet. Last time it was done was unknown. So i was not going to risk it even though a inspection thru the holes came out looking ok.

Started to strip it down. Looked on the net 1st to find the Crank bolt was a 27mm, so i went off and got one in 3/4" drive...
Got home to find it was the same as a 200tdi and a 30mm socket, no problem, i had one of them.
Put the socklet and 3/4 bar on and turned the crank until i hit the chassis and then i removed the soleniod wire on the pump, turned the engine over to unscrew the bolt and...................... Locked solid..... tryed several times then it eventually went POP and unwound very slowly......... i got it out to find the whole tread was covered in loctite. Noice......
Then came the removing of the Crank Pully/dampener. Loctite was used on the shaft as well. Puller had a great time of getting it off.
After that i puleld the cover off and found the belt in good nick, but the idler and tensioner was well past its used by date.
I cleaned the lot up and fitted a Major Timing Belt kit. Replacing the Crank gear was not fun either. Loctite was used there as well.
Fitting was easy, read the new instructions for the new kit and fitted the lot.
The 300 engine as you know has the problem with belts schreding.... well mine had had the fix up kit fitted in the past, but ther is still an update with the bolts that hold the tensioner and the Crank gear.

How did i hold the crank while i tightened the Crank bolt??? i modified my 200 tdi tool and added a 60mm pipe to the plate and then bolted it to the Crank damper...

Now came the putting back together and finding any pully that had a bearing was stuffed...
Fan belt tensioner is noisy as is the Fan bearing in the front cover.
I was trying to work out how i could lubricate the Fan bearing and not have to fork out the $450 for the front cover.
So after i cleaned up the front timing cover i found the rear bearing seal had a tin cap. i pocked a small screwdriver through it and prissed it off. I then manually pushed grease into the bearing and continued to do so for about 10 mins.. i then cleaned it all up and refitted the rear seal cover and used Epoxy on the small hole i created.
This is only a Temp fix and i will replace it properly in the next few weeks.
I'm going to but a bearing from British 4wd and fit that. But i have to be carefull in pressing the old one out and the new one in, as removing alloy from the cover when you press the old one out, will make the new one a loose fit, then the fan just wanders out of the front cover.....

The bearing in the Fan belt tensioner i am replacing and i'll do the hoses and belt while i'm there.....
Cheap exercise....
Timing belt kit $450, belt, 2 pullys, Gasket, bolts, Crank gear.
Front Timing cover $450
Hoses $200 for all
Serp belt, $50

Love it.. but mind you... will never have to do this again on Grommet... There is no way he will live another 80,000km..... Sad fact is i only drive it on weekends and its a Bush toy and facts are that it wont last for ever......

So the tally for this job is
2 knuckles that are not ripped apart and lots of swearing...

Clarkie

[tab]

Thanks for the info, I'm up for the same job soon. How did you get the radiator fan off - do I need a large C=spanner ?

[Pierre]

Nope, 32mm fan hub spanner from SuperCheap. Same as Ford size.

SO all that bad language hovering over Mooroolbark WAS you, Clarkie.

Cheers,

Pete

[rick130]

getting the bearing out and the new one in should be easy, just heat the housing up and the old one should damn near fall out, and the new one fall in.
Used to do this with alloy uprights and Hewland diff side plates. Use just enough heat so spit or water just starts to spit/pop.

[100I]

Someone told me about wiping dishwashing liquid on alloy, then you heat the alloy till the soap browns and it's ready to eat.. no no wait a minute..
I remember now,, a 4x4 is born is where I saw it, they were preparing the alloy panels for some reshaping. Perhaps this technique would show safe heat applied to cast alloy as well?

[p38arover]

My 300 mTdi and JohnE's 300 Tdi also had the pulleys Loctited on.

In my case it was the harmonic balancer (needed oxy to remove as the shaft nose had also been centre-popped to expand it). That menat a new harmonic balaner had to be bought. The toothed pulley had also been Loctited on.

What should have been a 1 hour job ended up taking a whole lot longer.

Ron

[sclarke]

getting the bearing out and the new one in should be easy, just heat the housing up and the old one should damn near fall out, and the new one fall in.
Used to do this with alloy uprights and Hewland diff side plates. Use just enough heat so spit or water just starts to spit/pop.

How did you heat it???
Oven or oxy??

[rick130]

used both :D

turbo torch should be good too, nice soft flame.

[tab]

Aluminium motorcycle parts are often freed with eucalyptus oil - yes must be real aust made stuff

[CraigE]

Its a Landie, it will still be on the road in 30 years.;)

[ATH]

Had mine done recently by Richard (Kie4) and he had a terrible job getting the crankshaft bolt out. In the end had to resort to a ratlle gun to shift it. Tight squeeze getting that into the restricted space between the rad. but he eventually got it off.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpg
Steve the mechanic at Rovertech reckons these bolts shouldn't be Loctited on, but nearly everyone seems to do it and it makes it very hard for the next mug who has to remove them.
Alan.

[chazza]

Someone told me about wiping dishwashing liquid on alloy, then you heat the alloy till the soap browns and it's ready to eat.. no no wait a minute..
I remember now,, a 4x4 is born is where I saw it, they were preparing the alloy panels for some reshaping. Perhaps this technique would show safe heat applied to cast alloy as well?

When the soap goes black, aluminium alloys will be annealed i.e very soft and able to be worked. Leaving annealed aluminium for 24 hours will age-harden it. The temp. of the metal when the soap browns, or blacks will be about 400 to 500 deg C, which is way too hot for this operation. Black soap is very close to the melting point of the alloy.

As someone else said water boiling on the surface should be adequate i.e. about 100 deg C,

cheers Chazza

[sclarke]

Will do.....

I got another cover today and drilled the housing and bearing to feed it oil.... going to try that before i replace the bearing....

Steve

[incisor]

Use just enough heat so spit or water just starts to spit/pop.
thats the temp you want.... nothing more....

[Dunnie]

My 300Tdi Defender is also Loctite Central. I think that the main Perth LR agents are Loctite main dealers as well. I pay the stiff BOC annual rental on oxy-acetylene gas bottles just to keep the Landie fleet going. All the bearing places (e.g. Consolidated Bearings) stock the small ball race used throughout the front end for about $4 each. One of those DIY hydraulic presses is good value. The previous owner threw the one that I have away 'cos it had a hydraulic leak. It turned out to be a loose oil filler cap on the jack. Watch the Bulk Collections!

[sclarke]

Pix of the Crank holding tool....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/08/94.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/10/38.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/10/39.jpg

[rick130]

Clarkie, I s'pose now isn't a good time to tell you that Mal (Maxi Drive) makes a 300Tdi crank holding tool for a nominal sum. When I last looked in the catalogue it was cheaper than the steel cost to make mine.......:(

[sclarke]

Clarkie, I s'pose now isn't a good time to tell you that Mal (Maxi Drive) makes a 300Tdi crank holding tool for a nominal sum. When I last looked in the catalogue it was cheaper than the steel cost to make mine.......:(

How much???

[Judo]

Thought I would add onto this thread which is linked in the "Good Oil" section rather than starting a new one. Some small lessons and a few more questions!

Today I got to my timing belt...

(1) A tip for draining the radiator - if you have any spare radiator hoses around, they make for great leads to buckets! I decided I'd change all my radiator hoses while I had them all disconnected anyway, so using the spare hoses made draining the radiator a lot less messy. Also, I completely took the radiator out, and although I understand it's not 100% necessary, I'm glad I did. So much easier to work in the area now and if you're just a random guy pulling his Landy apart like me - I highly recommend it.

(2) For me the 27mm crank bolt came off easy using a 6 point socket on a 1/2" 750mm long breaker bar with the vehicle handbrake on and my girlfriend standing on the foot brake.

I needed a puller to get off both the crank pulley and crank belt gear. I would not have managed without a puller. I used one that cost $23 on ebay and some extra bolts to fit the pulley and gear threads.
Bolts sizes for puller:
Crank pulley = M8
Crank belt gear = M5 (Need to be longer than 50mm)

Cheap puller - ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300667050586'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_893)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/161/crankpulleypuller.png

(3) What I found was a badly worn belt, with belt dust EVERYWHERE and some oil residue. :eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Question - Does oil residue mean I need a new seal on the crank shaft? I didn't buy one of those, and it's Easter long weekend! :mad:

Tip - buy the oil seal anyway. It's not in the timing belt kit and so far is the only extra part I've needed that's not in the kit.

(4) Question - How hard should it be to rotate the radiator fan when holding the nut in the middle? I can spin it OK and it feels smooth, but I expected it to freely spin - like if you spin a bike wheel... :confused:

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2300/radiatorcoolingfan.png

[Casper]

The fan should feel like it only has slight resistance, they spin fairly easily.

Cheers Casper

[camel_landy]

Tip - Forget the girlfriend... Disconnect the fuel pump solenoid and just crank the engine with the breaker bar on the nut! ;)

M

[Judo]

Yeah I read about that... Sounds dodgy! :D

[camel_landy]

Yeah I read about that... Sounds dodgy! :D

Nah, it works a treat. They even use that trick in LR workshops. ;)

M

[justinc]

Nah, it works a treat. They even use that trick in LR workshops. ;)

M

correct. i actually leave the injector pump wire connected, start it for a few seconds and it winds the bolt out for you too:wasntme:. almost all the ones we do have had locktite on them, and i always fit them back in with medium strength threadlocker to avoid them coming loose after water crossings etc.

jc

[Blknight.aus]

I put them in with antisieze on the threads and a drop of bearing mount on each side of the washer. Havent had one come loose yet.

[Judo]

Ha! You surprise me JC. :)

What do you guys think about not changing the crank oil seal? There's a slight oil residue in the bottom of the cover. At 150k and pretty sure it's never been changed. It's either put it back together today with old oil seal and go 4x4'ing tomorrow, or be patient and do it all during the week when I can get an oil seal. *strokes chin*

[slug_burner]

change the oil seal

[Judo]

change the oil seal

I was hoping you wouldn't say that.... Back to the couch for me then! :D

[eddy]

The O ring behind the crank gear as well!

[Judo]

OK, so I have the new seals... Now how on earth do I get the old crank oil seal out from behind the gear? It's stuck in there real good. I don't want to damage the outer casing right? It's quite soft?

[ade]

buy a seal puller for 20 odd dollars from supacreeps etc

[Judo]

In my frustration, I resorted to things I shouldn't have (read: screwdriver :wasntme: ). On the bright side, I got the oil seal out with only a minor mark on the inside rim... :eek:

Also I found the perfect item for hitting the new seal in with - an empty tin of whiskers cat food. :D It's the perfect size!

[Judo]

Test drive around the block successful. :)