Advice Quality and Experience - just a thought

[Roverray]

Given the discussion on this matter what do you think?
There is no better qualification than experience!

re competenance of members to provide advice (some are drivers only dont know which end of spanner to hold) what do you think of having a rating either with the username or on a look up.
as a lookup we could have like a table
with say- 4WD driving experience - army trained,
up to 100000k 100to250000 --- 1000000k plus
experienced driving -- 4wd light - 2t +
Mechanical experience - none =limited- do most - very experienced, Qualified
4 wd ownership - less than 2 years-
2-5.
5-10
10-25 ,25 plus
probably a few other key areas as well
....Just a thought
The member could be allocated a levelbased on this or just have it as a reference for lookup, after all the posts tell the story.

[waynep]

hmmmm ...touchy subject.
Could be me you're talking about ( probably are ) ... :o

I think advice passed on the Tech section does not necessarily always need to come from those guys who are highly mechanically competent ....
a lot of us have something to offer just through our experiences with LR servicers, or emergency repairs we have need to perform in the bush.

The good thing about this forum is there are plenty of checks and balances ... if I or anyone else posts something that is plainly cR*p then the resident expert in the field will soon correct it.
as with any rating system as you propose, the issue will be who is going to be the judge ( ie assess and apply the ratings ). Also anyone's resume will need to be taken at their word .... I don't really think it will give much more reliability to the advice.

[rovercare]

You can learn some of the smartest things of the dumbest of people;) Sometimes they look at things in a completely different light:o

[mns488]

on a forum its just advice and at the end of the day you take from it what you want and make your own decisions:)

Labelling people experts isn't going to make me believe them over someone else as its just that, an unverified label.

Anyone that overtly tells me they are an expert in something has always makes me think twice about what they are saying.

The use of the word "professional, expert or qualified" (to me) are well over used these days.

[DiscoStew]

Expertise varies across different topics, so would you have a different rating for electrical, mechanical, driving, towing? Too complicated.

I also have a motto at work (I.T.) "Don't collect data that you cannot keep up-to-date" and this would be a pain to maintain consistently and also maintenenace of the rating system would be difficult.

I also think it is contrary to the spirit of the forum.

However I do like it when someone states their relevant experience, especially on a contentious issue, although this generally becomes obvious after a while eg I know Drivesafe knows what he is talking about regarding battery systems and Blknight knows his mechanicals etc etc etc.

[barryj]

In response from a teacher and assessor, how long is a piece of string? Different people will have different methods of measuring this.

Who's standards would be used to assess another persons experiences?

Do we really need 'to be put in a box'? One person's experience would differ another's.

Food for thought.

There is capacity in this site for members to show information about themselves in their profile and signature. From what I see very few of us members show any detail in profiles.

Even locations seem to be a secret and people wonder why they don't get relevant answers to their questions.

[VladTepes]

It's easy.

I have owned a 4wd for over 20 years.

I can go anywhere you can go - and I don't have or need lockers.

Hell, I could do it in a Freelander where you need a 'mog.

I do ALL my own mechanical work.

I do most of my own electrical work.

I can fix just about ANYTHING when it goes bust with just fencing wire and race tape.


































Not !!!!

[incisor]

Not !!!!
thought i must have wandered into the fairy tale section :P

[VladTepes]

I must be psychic I KNEW you'd not be able to keep yer trap shut !

[Tote]

I don't think it's a very good idea, after all we are on the internet so use common sense and don't believe all you read. I've been on another (non automotive) forum with a rating system where I was given a negative rating by someone who believed that the only way to do a task was to pay a professional to perform it and when I dared to point out that a dedicated amateur could do just as well was awarded negative feedback. That sort of behaviour just makes people angry.
Regards,
Tote

[jimbo110]

thought i must have wandered into the fairy tale section :P


You mean you have created yet another section :eek:




































Just **** stirring........................:D

.

[barryj]

You mean you have created yet another section :eek:




































Just **** stirring........................:D

.

People will try anything to become a moderator :angel:.

[loanrangie]

You can learn some of the smartest things of the dumbest of people;) Sometimes they look at things in a completely different light:o

That is very true, my brother doesnt know one end of a spanner to the other but if you want to know the technical side of something he's your man, just dont ask him to open the bonnet !

[JDNSW]

I have to agree with Tote - any meaningful scheme would be totally impossible to run. As an example, I have been driving four wheel drives (mostly Landrovers) for almost fifty years (!!! am I that old!) and know quite a lot about, in particular, Series Landrovers. But put a Freelander in front of me and I would not know where to start! And no better with a post-classic RR or a Disco 3.

John

[100I]

And I'd pay more heed to John's experienced word on series or 110 over a qual general motor mechanic.

[mcrover]

You can learn some of the smartest things of the dumbest of people;) Sometimes they look at things in a completely different light:o

Now who are you thinking of there matt lol :D:D:D:D:D

[mcrover]

on a forum its just advice and at the end of the day you take from it what you want and make your own decisions:)

Labelling people experts isn't going to make me believe them over someone else as its just that, an unverified label.

Anyone that overtly tells me they are an expert in something has always makes me think twice about what they are saying.

The use of the word "professional, expert or qualified" (to me) are well over used these days.

So I and all other qualified people in the world went through an apprenticship for nothing then.


I have met people that are much better at doing certain things like building autos or performance engines that are not qualified BUT you ask them to look outside the little square they live in and do the front wheel bearings on a D1 and they generally wont even try.

A general mechanic is an extremely general term these days, I am qualified cert in automotive something, (I would have to hunt up the cert to have a look for more details) but I have spent pretty much my whole working life on tractors, large industrial mowers and trucks so when it comes to a Comodore or falcon, Im not clewed in on all of the small aspects that a bloke working at ultra tune might have.

Same with Blknight, although he has spent his career on some great equipment and would be able to bolt a landy together with a blindfold on but I doubt he would have been bothered learning the part number for a hyundia exel oil filter.

There are very few people out there that are just natural mechanics that are not qualified but there are some and there are a lot of qualified guys out there that are not natural mechanics aswell so Im assuming that is where your comment is coming from.

There are a lot of aspects of the trade that are covered in an apprenticship than just bolting things together and thats where qualifacations count as it takes a lot of trial and error to get all that knolage if it isnt taught to you.

I dont think it is nessesary to have a rating system, after a few weeks on here everyone tends to work out whos who and who does what.

Aust Jeep has a trail rating system and I can tell you that some of the people who were trail rated, I wouldnt be going off road with as they had very little knolage but had done an off road course only.

[moose]

I've offered advice (which I know to be true and correct) on a different forum, and then gone on to advise them to be careful heeding said advice, coz "i'm just some guy off the internet"

Having a rating system could lead to all sorts of problems down the line, especially when diagnosing a car from the other end of the country, when "he told me I needed a new foofer valve, but it was actually the widget"

I guess internet advice is like a clint eastwood film, you get the good, the bad and the ugly.;)

[HSVRangie]

wont work cant work.

Michael.

[mns488]

So I and all other qualified people in the world went through an apprenticship for nothing then.



Sorry if i upset you.

I'm not entirely sure what your banging on about?:angel:

My comments about tech terms (expert & qualified) being overused seemed to be re-enforced by what you said? Example: I could take my car to a landrover dealer (who an ordinary person would expect them to be an expert) but I would probably get better quality of work from someone like blknight (Blknight, move to melb please).

I think we are on the same wavelength?

------
Subject: Not happy!




I was travelling at 60km/h on the way to the city this afternoon and I rear-ended a car .

The driver got out of the other car, and he was a DWARF!!
He looked up at me and said "I am NOT Happy!"

So I said, "Well, which one ARE you then?"

…and that's how the fight started......

[JDNSW]

So I and all other qualified people in the world went through an apprenticeship for nothing then.

I don't think that is the case, but I do think that there is an over reliance on formal qualifications today. Both from the point of view that nobody without the qualifications can do the job and from the point of view that nobody has the qualifications can do the job badly.

A good example is the recent case where a Qantas mechanic was found to have dodgy qualifications - but inspections of everything he signed off on revealed no faulty work (not that I am recommending that unqualified people work on planes I travel in, although I would prefer to rely on multiple inspections and people taking responsibility rather than qualifications).

The problem is that qualifications are only part of the story - not whole thing. And in too many cases they are used to try and enforce a closed shop, which is for the benefit mainly of those with the qualifications, or to justify the educational structure that provides the qualifications.

I must emphasise that I am not suggesting that there should not be formal training in mechanicing or that this should not result in a formal qualification.

John

[jsp]

I don't know where I would fit though, I have pulled cars apart, currently building a rangie I have put the engine in after doing top end gaskets and rewired most of he car and converting to auto, all on my own without any help in person.

Normally I would take my hat off to someone who can pull an engine, replace a heap of bits, transplant it into a nother car, rewire half the car and put a diff tranny into it. But in all reality, $1000 worth of tools at supercheap and a few old cars and away I have gone.

To sum up I couldn't get it started, my MOTHER :eek:asked me if I put some petrol down the throttle body and wow away it went! I haven't ever owned a carby engine and didn't know about it, i am not mechanically inclined but I can pull something apart and put it back together again if I remember where the bits went. I don't understand fully how the bits interact or often work but as long as they work I am happy :)

Then again I have happily spliced into lots of my p38's electrical systems and added bits n bobs which places have told me can't be done....

so I know very little, then again I have done more than most :eek:

[DiscoStew]

So I and all other qualified people in the world went through an apprenticship for nothing then.


God No!

A qualified mechanic with experience is way useful. Having just broke down 13kms short of the HiWay inn (just south of Daly Waters NT) and had three bush mechanics not knowing what to to do. 300kms further on in Katherine and the qualiied mechanic knew exactly what to do. Fixed wile we went off to visit the Gorge.

But a bush mechanic is till more useful than me.

I think the point being made is that if you are discussing D2's then someone with no formal quals but has worked on a D2 a lot is as useful as general mechanic with little experience on D2's. The good thing about this forum is we have both AND we have qual'd mechanics with heaps of landrover experience.

[Chenz]

Remember the Ark was built by amatuers

The Titanic was built by experts.

[mcrover]

I say good on anyone to give it a go and I encorage anyone to do so and will help them with what ever they need along the way BUT there is a need for qualified people and formal qualifacations to be recognised as the people who have PROOVEN that they know what they are talking about.

Nobody knows everything, not even Rovercare (sorry Matt) and I for one try to learn something new everyday and If I havnt through work I will try something on the computer or GPS or something just to keep the brain ticking over but qualified people are the back bone of an industry, no matter what industry there has to be qualified people to make it work.

A lot of the time a little knolage can be dangerous thing esspecially when it comes to mods and safety, most backyarders rarely consider safety aspects when working on their cars/4wd's and a lot of mods, mechanical and/or electrical can be very very dangerous if done that little bit wrong.

Im not saying that all qualified people dont do things bodgy as we all know they do but more often than not they are working to a price rather than quality because thats what the customer expects and cut corners even though they know it may not be right.

How many DIYers try and use or even think about not using the cheapest replacement parts regardless of quality, who here uses cheap chinese bearings and cheap oil filters and oil, who hasnt bothered about what is the right size wire to rewire your ign system or driving lights or have bolted a bull bar on with what ever bolts were about the right size from the bolt bucket?

Using the cheaper parts may be ok for a little while but eventually you will find that it can not only make the vehical unreliable but also make it dangerous.

Im not the be all and end all in mechanics, I think there are guys on here that make me look like im still an apprentice but in my specialised field they would most likely feel a little lost for a while but at least ive got the training behind me to be able to turn my hand to try anything with an educated veiw of it.

On top of all of that, if you are not qualified and you for instance change your brake pads in your landy and then have an accident due to brake failure then you are not insured as well as 100% liable for any damage or injury that has come from the accident.

It would be up to you to have to proove that you knew what you were doing when you did the pads and that it was not related to the failure that caused the accident and for that you would be relying on qualified people to write statments in your favour as well as an engineers report on the vehical and what was the failure etc etc.

It is a risk that all DIYer mechanics have to take.

[mcrover]

Remember the Ark was built by amatuers

The Titanic was built by experts.

All that tells me is never buy a pommy boat...:D

[Blknight.aus]

S
I doubt he would have been bothered learning the part number for a hyundia exel oil filter.


The ryco Z9 series fit its a generic spin on type filter that suits a lot of the early 1.3, 1.5 and and 1.6l front wheel drives.


(you just had to pick mums car didntcha)

[mcrover]

The ryco Z9 series fit its a generic spin on type filter that suits a lot of the early 1.3, 1.5 and and 1.6l front wheel drives.


(you just had to pick mums car didntcha)

I thought as soon as I posted it that you would know someone with one lol

Sorry bad example try this one:

I wouldnt ask you the Baldwin filter number for an oil filter for a Jacobsen LF4677 fairway mower.

Bet ya dont know that one lol

[rovercare]

Nobody knows everything, not even Rovercare (sorry Matt).

Yep, my last mistake cost me a crank machine and a new set of big end and main bearings, 1st year apprentice mistake.......Sometimes you need a reminder of how dumb you actually are:(

What was I doing?? fitting a Gen 3 and 4L60E out of a VXII SS to a series 1 XJ6, 300RWHP is fun:) Custom engine mounts, sump, gearbox crossmember, blah blah, I can do all this....well I set it up and needed someone to do some tig welded and a mate with a lathe, but do all myself.....and still make silly/basic **** ups:mad:

[rovercare]

That is very true, my brother doesnt know one end of a spanner to the other but if you want to know the technical side of something he's your man, just dont ask him to open the bonnet !

One of my mate's years ago, you'd swear he had to concentrate or he'd forget to breath:eek: while I was lifting a motor out of an XE panel van (burnout car, 250 that went, 4spd single rail and CIG locker:D) and I tried to yank it out it wouldn't split from the box, quite promptly pointed out a hadn't removed the clutch inspection cover......Sure i would have seen it as soon as i waddled down the pit, but just goes to show:o

[rovercare]

Now who are you thinking of there matt lol :D:D:D:D:D

:confused: Guilty consience:p

I'm always listening mate, most just can't see it, either through my age or my ignorance:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

I thought as soon as I posted it that you would know someone with one lol

Sorry bad example try this one:

I wouldnt ask you the Baldwin filter number for an oil filter for a Jacobsen LF4677 fairway mower.

Bet ya dont know that one lol

Nope, but I know where to look to find out...

That IMHO is one of the things that seperate out good mechanics from the lazy ones, Engines is engines, gears is gears. If you have a sound understanding of about 10 or so general principals there is nothing stopping you from becoming a reasonable mechanic The rest is experience and knowing where to look for the stuff you dont know....

I'll admit on a stock series rover Im good, On a suzi powered county or perentine even better But these are my bread and butter vehicles, HOWEVER... I still have all the manuals.

So in honesty of the tech type stuff I post up here it breaks about like this.


40% is stuff I know by heart (umm hows that turbo work again?)
20% is stuff I have in books at my fingertips (electronic versions as well)(whats the torque setting for the waterpump bolts on a SIII 2.25 petrol?)
20% is stuff I take to work and ask someone who has better general knowoldge in that field than me or I take to work and use the online resources there (my skyline is doing this thing here)
10% is stuff that is extrapolated from theory (Is it possable to put a Detroit S53 v6 2 stroke in a landrover?)
and the last 10% is stuff that is out of my area of understanding (say specifics on a lot of the P38 + freelander)

[Tote]

Nope, but I know where to look to find out...
snip
(Is it possable to put a Detroit S53 v6 2 stroke in a landrover?)
/snip



so, is it possible, sounds like a fun project:twisted:
regards,
Tote

[drivesafe]

Hi Roverray, I can imagine that this thread was generated out of frustration with banging your head against a wall when trying to explain to others that some individual has been giving grossly inaccurate information on a specific subject.

Been there done that.

BUT

If you go giving people a graded qualification, who then do you appoint to make the ruling as to what level of grading is given to which individual.

Furthermore, IMHO this would only scare others away from giving input to any given discussion, not really what the web and more specifically, what this site is about.

Personally, I think things should be left the way they are on this site as there is a huge wealth of information on hand at anytime and on any subject, Landy, automotive or otherwise.

My 2c worth.

[Blknight.aus]

so, is it possible, sounds like a fun project:twisted:
regards,
Tote

The engine will physicaly fit into the engine bay of a peretine......

ok so I was bored and there was an APC with the engine out and a 110 in the same boat, someone left the engine crane in the same place and after beer thirty on friday a couple of us were lamenting the lack of power from a 3.9 and would a blown engine be better.....

you know how these things go....

kinda like the guy with the super turbo mod.

[JohnE]

Interesting topic,
how would you break it down, life and work experiences, formal qualifications,practical experiences, successful projects ( ones that haven;t failed)

For some on here, to properly catalogue their experience/qualifications the pages would be that long its not funny.
Then to categorise each skill into an appropriate heading and then put that into a section where the skill can be easily found............

Black Dave's method of rating himself with his own percentage rating is easier, like making a cake ,take a little bit of knowledge from a variety of sources. apply what you can.
Back to the question how long is a piece of string?



john

[George130]

I think this would end up being a nightmare to administer. In my profession I have no formal qualifications but I can do the job and am trusted to know what I'm doing or how to find out. I work in IT.
As for mechanical well again no formal qualifications but I have been doing it since I was 15. I became confident with cars at the age of 17 when we wrote dads car off while he was overseas. As it was uninsured he responded with you guys broke it so you guys can fix it. Since then I and friends have done 90% of our mechanical work and always have hobby cars we are stripping and rebuilding.
I don't claim to be an expert and will happily be corrected.
On a forum it is all advice. You soon learn to rank the advice given according to who has provided it.