Are driving standards dropping or am I getting old.....

[bigdog]

Not sure if I am becoming a 'grumpy old man' but I am getting increasingly frustrated with the poor driving, bad habits, and blatant disregard of the road rules and lack of common sense of drivers on the road today.

My personal pet hates are:

1. The appaling lane discipline in NSW. Just witness the F3 driving North out of Sydney, any day of the week. Not 1 car in the inside lane (of 3), the majority sitting in the middle lane travelling at 100 in a 110 zone or sitting in the outside lane with what appears to be the sole intention of preventing anyone else going faster than they are.
Witness the Pacific Highway at school drop off/pick up time. I have often sat behind mothers who have travelled from Chatswood to Hornsby in the outside lane, sitting on 59khr, only to cross 2 lanes at the last moment in order to turn left.
2. Indicator use (or lack of). How many times have I pulled up behind someone in the outside lane at lights, only for them to switch their indicator on when the lights turn to green and they are finally awake to the fact that they are indeed turning right.
Also, drivers who pull into feeder lanes and sit in a queue of traffic to turn left/right, and who indicate only when they they start to turn the steering wheel as they proceed around the corner. Or drivers who indicate after they have already changed lanes and cut you off.
3. Drivers who have missed their turn and rather than driving around the block, or taking a small detour, insist on stopping, forcing you to drive around them so that they can then reverse back to the turn that they have just missed.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggh!!!!!

Now I am not whiter than white. I drive faster then the posted speed limit. I sometimes make mistakes and slight errors of judgement. In fact someone scared the life out of me this morning as I was joining the M4 as they were sitting just behind me, right in my blind spot, travelling at the same speed as me, and I didn't spot them (my fault).
However I like to think that I am a considerate driver, one who pulls over to the left when there are vehicles behind who wish to travel faster than me, one who gives way to other traffic when required. And I think that I am a safe driver (no 'at fault' accidents in 28 years of driving).

This morning incident got me thinking; am I getting less tolerant, are my driving skills deteriorating with age, or are driving standards dropping these days.

Now I will go and grab a coffee, unwind for a few minutes and take my 'grumpy' hat off!

[rovercare]

However I like to think that I am a considerate driver, one who pulls over to the left when there are vehicles behind who wish to travel faster than me, one who gives way to other traffic when required. !

My pet hate, is those that insist on travelling at 80kph in 100 zone in perfectly clear conditions without even a thought about the 7 cars banking up behind them:mad:

I take my hat of to you sir:)

[incisor]

my pet hate is the mongrels that have to dive out in front of you and do 20kph below the going rate, when there was no vehicle behind you .... another 30 secs and they wouldnt hold anyone up...

and then you get the bribie road syndrome...

do 80 kph in the single lane section then instantly up to 110 kph in the double lane section when both sections are 100kph.....

please, tell me again, why cant i mount a 50cal on the front of my truck?

[rovercare]

my pet hate is the mongrels that have to dive out in front of you and do 20kph below the going rate, when there was no vehicle behind you .... another 30 secs and they wouldnt hold anyone up...

and then you get the bribie road syndrome...

do 80 kph in the single lane section then instantly up to 110 kph in the double lane section when both sections are 100kph.....

please, tell me again, why cant i mount a 50cal on the front of my truck?

Yes this is the **** that needs to be outlawed:mad:

[Scouse]

1. The appaling lane discipline in NSW. Just witness the F3 driving North out of Sydney, any day of the week. Not 1 car in the inside lane (of 3), the majority sitting in the middle lane travelling at 100 in a 110 zone or sitting in the outside lane with what appears to be the sole intention of preventing anyone else going faster than they are.
I'm sure no-one knows what the left lane is for on any road with 3 or more lanes.
At least I get a good run up the F3 by sticking to the inside lane, staying on the speed limit & passing all those who think they're the only one on the road.

[bigdog]

Right. I've had my coffee. Doubleshot Espresso. And I am feeling muuuuuuuuuuuuuch better now:p

[Disco_owner]

Could someone please explain what Bribie road syndrome is ?

[mns488]

i'd agree standards have gone down, including my own:angel:.

i have noticed that i don't indicate for toyota drivers anymore... just pull out in front...:)

[bigdog]

i'd agree standards have gone down, including my own:angel:.

i have noticed that i don't indicate for toyota drivers anymore... just pull out in front...:)




Ahhhhhhh....so your the one !!!

[Discobunny]

This morning incident got me thinking; am I getting less tolerant, are my driving skills deteriorating with age, or are driving standards dropping these days.


Probably all of the above:D.


my pet hate is the mongrels that have to dive out in front of you and do 20kph below the going rate, when there was no vehicle behind you .... another 30 secs and they wouldnt hold anyone up...

and then you get the bribie road syndrome...

do 80 kph in the single lane section then instantly up to 110 kph in the double lane section when both sections are 100kph.....

please, tell me again, why cant i mount a 50cal on the front of my truck?
X2 (just had to use that one:p), both of these are my pet hates too. This could be a good reason to actually own a Hummer:eek:, you could just drive over anyone that pulls out in front of you:spudnikhalfback: :rocket:


Right. I've had my coffee. Doubleshot Espresso. And I am feeling muuuuuuuuuuuuuch better now:p

Double espresso will only get you going, you need a defcaf mocha latte and chill for a few hours:zzz:. Sydney Traffic will do that to you

[101RRS]

Your getting old and grumpy :). Everything was better in the good ole days.

Driving standards are not getting worse - they have always been bad.

[incisor]

Could someone please explain what Bribie road syndrome is ?

i thought i did, on the next line or two :P

[barryj]

i'd agree standards have gone down, including my own:angel:.

i have noticed that i don't indicate for toyota drivers anymore... just pull out in front...:)

You have to see it to believe it. Only one road from Caboolture to Bribie Island and via a bridge. Everyone (well most) think they have the road to themselves and they must kill to get home on Bribie Island before the sun sets.

Little do they realise that if everyone just took a bit of time and care they would all get to their destination safely.

Bribie used to be mainly a retirement/holiday destination. Now the developers are into it people who live there (well most) think that Bribie is a suburb of Brisbane.

Nice place though.

[sam_d]

I am amazed at how badly a lot of P-Platers drive. Not just a "lack of experience" thing which would be understandable but "driving like a dickhead for the sake of driving like a dickhead". I just don't understand it.

When I learned to drive there wasn't a minimum time you had to spend on L and P plates unlike now - I just don't understand why people take such risks which not only put other people in danger but might end up with them having wasted a lot of time on money if they lose their licence.

Parramatta Road is full of dickhead drivers at the best of times (especially early Saturday evening) but I've lost count of how many times I've seen p-platers weaving in and out of traffic just to get to the next set of red traffic lights a couple of seconds earlier. :mad:

[DiscoStew]

2. Indicator use (or lack of). How many times have I pulled up behind someone in the outside lane at lights, only for them to switch their indicator on when the lights turn to green and they are finally awake to the fact that they are indeed turning right.
Definitely getting worse.


3. Drivers who have missed their turn and rather than driving around the block, or taking a small detour, insist on stopping, forcing you to drive around them so that they can then reverse back to the turn that they have just missed.

Oz becoming more Americanised. People are losing the ability to actually think on the spot because their situational awareness is nil. So they just panic and stop.

[Quiggers]

I find it rather funny that some around here slow down to 40- 50km/h in order to stay safe with the speed cameras (one is 80, the other is 60)....

GQ

[Maggot4x4]

What I really hate is people that do not know how to merge. I have noticed it a lot more since moving to QLD, people just stop on on ramps to freways. The amount of times I have almost rear ended someone because they just stop.

Mind you, the on ramps up here, esp on the sunshine coast mwy leave a lot to be desired.

[Quarks]

I know that camera feeling...

There's a hill not far from me where there's a speed camera just before the road flattens out at the top. When the traffic's medium-heavy when people suddenly slow down to 60 (or a tad under) for the (60kph) camera, it sends a wave of braking right back down the hill, which, because everyone is travelling too close together (1sec gap not 3), each car slows a little bit more than the last one. Result? by the time it gets to you, the going speed is now 20kph, and your great run on the hill has been all buggered up. :mad:

As I go through the NSW licencing system, you are not (required to be) taught at all how to be considerate, kind or thoughtful; even the skill of reading the road/traffic ahead is not really emphasised, everything focusses on you and your car, so it's not surprising about most behaviour is fairly ego-centric.

Oh, there are lots of things that Australia's great at, aren't there? :TIC:

[cartm58]

well statistically they must be getting better as road deaths and injuries been declining since the 1970's.

but seeing they say there are lies, dam lies and then there are statistics, l would have to say maybe its cars that have got safer and emergency services are better equipped and trained as the main explanation for declining road deaths.

personal view drivers are as bad as they ever were just thousands more of them

[drover81]

Driving - from my limited experience (9yrs) I think it's always been bad... I agree with all the abovementioned thoughtless driving... Although, I do temper my rage by thinking maybe they're out of towners and don't know their way round... but some of it is just plain thoughtless...


Definitely getting worse.

Oz becoming more Americanised. People are losing the ability to actually think on the spot because their situational awareness is nil. So they just panic and stop.

Don't get me started about peoples inability to 'think on the spot' part... Got called abused in public by a Policeman for doing just that. I crossed a one way road when there was literally no traffic within clear sight... straight road with no blind corners etc...

"conversation"
Police: "Couldn't you wait for the little green man like everyone else. No, you couldn't! You just were just being a stupid idiot and ran out into the traffic"
My reply: "what traffic?"

That's the attitude people take when someone exercises a little free thought.... :mad:

(I respect the Police and the job they do, I just find it hard to empathise with them when they display that kind of high and mighty attitude...)

[Loaded]

No your not getting old all standards have dropped not just driving.

*Social
*Religious
*Family
*How things are made (China).
:twisted:

[sam_d]

"conversation"
Police: "Couldn't you wait for the little green man like everyone else. No, you couldn't! You just were just being a stupid idiot and ran out into the traffic"
My reply: "what traffic?"


A few years back a friend of mine was doing a little bit over the posted speed limit through a contraflow at some roadworks. He knew he was in the wrong and didn't give the any cheek. The conversation went along the lines of:

Police: "You know you were going a bit faster than 40mph through the contraflow there weren't you?"
My Mate: "Yeah, it's a fair cop, I was."
P:"You understand it is a 40mph limit because all there is seperating you and the oncoming traffic is that line of plastic cones?"
M: "Yes. But what about on country roads where the limit is 60, the lanes are narrower and there are no cones? There's nothing separating us then."
P: "..."
P: "Good point Sir, now on your way and don't let it happen again."

I think it depends on the person on the day. There are rules to follow but there is also discretion. :)

[Tote]

I think the improving quality of roads over the years has an effect too, Canberra has some of the best roads and most inconsiderate drivers I've ever come across but once they cross the border onto our sub standard NSW roads they're even worse. It seems the shock of going from 4 lanes to two renders them incapable of doing any more than 90 Km/h and gives them the right to abuse anyone who has the temerity to overtake them. Once they get to an overtaking lane the extra space so excites them that they need to do 120 to prevent anyone using the opportunity to overtake.
The increase in the amount of time that young drivers have to spend on their P plates also has a detrimental effect as an already crowded road is slowed to 80 or 90 by a sole P plater.
Living around Yass you get used to excercising extra caution around those with ACT plates, I was down the main street one Saturday morning and overheard the P&C ladies at the raffle stall loudly proclaim the person with ACT plates who was doing a 3 point turn around our traffic lights as a "Dickhead Canberran", nearly fell over giggling.....
Regards,
Tote

[BigJon]

The general standard of driving here is woeful and beyond. People speed, tailgate, fail to indicate, straightline roundabouts, run red lights, etc etc.

Basically any form of bad driving you can imagine happens here on a daily basis. The only redeeming factor is the town is quite small, so you don't have to be on the road for too long to get anywhere.

I have always maintained in my time here that the typical Alice Springs driver would fall to pieces if you put them in a busy traffic situation (Sydney, Melbourne, etc).

[loanrangie]

Definately getting worse, P platers in their jap imports flying past zig zagging thru out the traffic, drivers not indicating when changing lanes or turning. One thing i learnt from riding motorbikes for 22 years is to scan the traffic ahead and behind so you can see the next numbnuts who will possibly knock you off .

[JDNSW]

well statistically they must be getting better as road deaths and injuries been declining since the 1970's.

but seeing they say there are lies, dam lies and then there are statistics, l would have to say maybe its cars that have got safer and emergency services are better equipped and trained as the main explanation for declining road deaths.

personal view drivers are as bad as they ever were just thousands more of them

Statistically you are right - driving standards must be improving overall, but I'm not sure that you are right about the reasons. There have been two major improvements in deaths and injuries - seat belts and random breath testing (one of the major results of this was to show that although only around 2% of drivers were drunk, 50% of dead drivers were - think about that for a moment). And even today, around 30% of dead drivers are drunk, and new tests for drugs show another 25% are under the influence of drugs.

But the other major improvement has been in roads. despite the fact that in many areas nobody thinks much of the roads, they are a lot better than they were, even looked at over a short period, for example, the Albury bypass. A confirmation of this is that freeways, despite generally having a higher speed limit and much more traffic than any other type of road, also have a far lower rate of accidents, injuries and deaths than any other type of road. Vehicle crash safety and to a lesser extent handling and braking improvements may have had a slight effect - but these are very largely negated by the drivers using them to cut safety margins.

For quite a number of years the road death rate has been below the suicide rate, without even taking into account those road deaths that are actually suicide.

I don't quite agree that they are just as bad as ever, but more of them. Certainly there are more of them, but I seem to detect a slight improvement. Only very slight though - maybe I am mellowing with age!

John

[wovenrovings]

Possibly due to the higher traffic density you don't have as much time to calm down between incedents. Hence leaving you more frustrated at the end.

I personally hate having to deal with the trucks on the bruce hiway, sometimes i think the lot of them are completely crazy.
Head out towards Emerald and everything changes people seem more willing to take the little extra time that avoids most of the stress.

[RomperStomper]

As the general population increases and more people get licences there will be more idiots on the roads. No surprises there, a day of driving in Sydney peak hour traffic is the equivelant of idiot spotting as possibly 3 months of driving up here in the mountains. Even though some people up here are just psycho.

[longreach]

Possibly due to the higher traffic density you don't have as much time to calm down between incedents. Hence leaving you more frustrated at the end.

I personally hate having to deal with the trucks on the bruce hiway, sometimes i think the lot of them are completely crazy.
Head out towards Emerald and everything changes people seem more willing to take the little extra time that avoids most of the stress.
:angel:You may be right in thinking most of the truck drivers on the bruce high way are crazy,I travel the bruce highway most of the time,driving a scania,single trailer,grossing 34.5 ton,you try and do as many miles you can, in your 12 hours ...putting up with caravans doing 80 km instead of 100 on the open highway,thats my biggest grip,as for driving standards,yes they have slipped a little,thats because there more of use sharing the same roads,that where built 40 years ago,I ,ve been driving trucks for 38 years and I ,ve seen some changes in driving standards here in queensland,I travel between 5000 km to 6000 km a week ,and its been 11 years since I have been booked for any thing.
regards keith

[barryj]

:angel:You may be right in thinking most of the truck drivers on the bruce high way are crazy,I travel the bruce highway most of the time,driving a scania,single trailer,grossing 34.5 ton,you try and do as many miles you can, in your 12 hours ...putting up with caravans doing 80 km instead of 100 on the open highway,thats my biggest grip,as for driving standards,yes they have slipped a little,thats because there more of use sharing the same roads,that where built 40 years ago,I ,ve been driving trucks for 38 years and I ,ve seen some changes in driving standards here in queensland,I travel between 5000 km to 6000 km a week ,and its been 11 years since I have been booked for any thing.
regards keith

I too have a heavy vehicle license, but not a semi licence.

I don't believe you should bag a caravaner for doing 80 in a 100 zone. You must be aware that 100 is the max speed limit. Many caravaners would be dangerous if they pushed their vehicles to suit trucks.

You must admit also that there are truck jockeys that do a lot more than 100. It's not our fault that the industry encourages driving to the limit and beyond.

The big issue as I see it is that the roads do not cater for vehicles that do less than other drivers want.

There should be more overtaking lanes and the like.

How can we solve this problem?

[Blknight.aus]

My absolute hate, makes me so hot under the collar that I just wish there was an exemption so I could fix it with a pit move or an 84, 66, 40mm, 25mm, 50 cal, 12 gauge hell 5.56 or 9mm pistol would do..


Those smeggers who with no other traffic around go like absolute blazes to pass you and then you catch them up and they are going 5-10 slower than you were when they past you. And it usually happens where theres a hilly/windy section so you cant get round them for the next 30 mins or so.........

Once.... Just once Id like to.............

[barryj]

My absolute hate, makes me so hot under the collar that I just wish there was an exemption so I could fix it with a pit move or an 84, 66, 40mm, 25mm, 50 cal, 12 gauge hell 5.56 or 9mm pistol would do..


Those smeggers who with no other traffic around go like absolute blazes to pass you and then you catch them up and they are going 5-10 slower than you were when they past you. And it usually happens where theres a hilly/windy section so you cant get round them for the next 30 mins or so.........

Once.... Just once Id like to.............


So is this a Land Rover driving tip :D?

[George130]

I think the improving quality of roads over the years has an effect too, Canberra has some of the best roads and most inconsiderate drivers I've ever come across but once they cross the border onto our sub standard NSW roads they're even worse. It seems the shock of going from 4 lanes to two renders them incapable of doing any more than 90 Km/h and gives them the right to abuse anyone who has the temerity to overtake them. Once they get to an overtaking lane the extra space so excites them that they need to do 120 to prevent anyone using the opportunity to overtake.
The increase in the amount of time that young drivers have to spend on their P plates also has a detrimental effect as an already crowded road is slowed to 80 or 90 by a sole P plater.
Living around Yass you get used to excercising extra caution around those with ACT plates, I was down the main street one Saturday morning and overheard the P&C ladies at the raffle stall loudly proclaim the person with ACT plates who was doing a 3 point turn around our traffic lights as a "Dickhead Canberran", nearly fell over giggling.....
Regards,
Tote
I would be one of those 90km/h people. I sit on 90 on the barton. I also normaly try to hug the left line marker of the lane. At the overtaking lanes I either stay on 90 or even let the speed drop a bit to encourage people to just pass and not sit under my rear diff. I'm happy for people to overtake but I hate them then slowing down and causing me to have to slow. The trick to Canberra is simple. Don't leave space or 10 cars will try to pile into it at once. Also in Canberra don't let them in unless they have indicated and shown an ability to check the lane first. It took 10 years of being forced up gutters in cars to discover that secret. Go to Sydney and there are heaps of cars but it is a lot easier unless you don't know where you are going.
As for down town Yass 50km'h speed limit and your lucky to do 30!

[easo]

Round'a'bouts, People who can't indicate correctly on a Round'a'bout, they indicate right to go strait. Fail to indicate to go right. Or the best I've seen is one P plater Indicating right, while in the left lane and went strait.

[incisor]

and you should be!
:(

[Disco Steve]

I sit at 90km/h cause im a P plater and I'm sick of people who sit so close I cant even see them in the rear view mirror:mad::twisted:

[JDNSW]

I sit at 90km/h cause im a P plater and I'm sick of people who sit so close I cant even see them in the rear view mirror:mad::twisted:

Personally, I think the P-plate speed limits are counterproductive* (and I am not a P-plater). Obviously thought up by someone who never drives on two lane roads. Note that Victoria does not have them and does not show a noticeably worse record than NSW.

John

* In my view (and experience), most P-platers will be intimidated into driving above their speed limit a lot of the time by tailgating drivers behind them, particularly trucks (not because trucks do it more often, but because they find it harder to pass and are more intimidating). The result is that by the time they get off the limits, the P-plater has been thoroughly taught to disregard speed limits.

[Hymie]

1. People who sit up my ring, (whatever happened to the 2 second rule?
2. People who pull out in front when nothing is behind me,
3. Muppets who pass in slip lanes up the left hand side at lights, (one proceded to slam the picks on and make a right hand turn over double lines on me once, now THAT was exciting... )
4. When I'm waiting to pull onto a dual carriageway, and people in the left lane won't move over to let you in, ( I find Country driver to be more considerate there)
5. The Monash Freeway (need I say more?)
6. Boy Racers with coffee can exhaust pipes.
7. Inconsiderate *****s who won't dip their headlights.

I could go on:mad:

[Tank]

My gripe is drivers that swing so wide when making a right turn at a roundabout that you could drive straight through without hitting them, they must think they have a 40' trailer behind them and those morons that pull into a right turn lane and just before the turn they swing to the left, sometimes with part of their car coming into the lane to their left, how these clowns got a license is beyond me, they have no basic driving skills or commonsense. The other thing that $h!ts me off is the massive media blitz by the cops and State government on speeding drivers, when you consider that 0.8% of all fatal road crashes are a direct result of speeding (ABS), the largest by far cause of fatal road crashes is INATTENTION, that's right, not keeping your mind on the task at hand is our biggest killer (ABS). I believe the media campaign is to justify the Governments revenue collection, take a look at one of the ads, it shows a young bloke supposedly speeding in his hopped up silver ute, out in the country, wide open spaces, few trees and he comes around a slight bend in the road and there is a slow moving truck, which he doesn't see till the last minute, he veers to the wrong side of the road and collects a car coming the other way. All that ad says to me is that the young bloke wasn't watching the road, It wouldn't matter if he was doing the speed limit or not, he simply didn't see the truck till he was only a few metres away, INATTENTION YES, SPEEDING nothing to do with it. How can the Government justify speeding as the DEMON when their own figures prove otherwise, another RIP-OFF, Regards Frank.

[barryj]

My gripe is drivers that swing so wide when making a right urn at a roundabout that you could drive straight through without hitting them, they must think they have a 40' trailer behind them and those morons that pull into a right turn lane and just before the turn they swing to the left, sometimes with part of their car coming into the lane to their left, how these clowns got a license is beyond me, they have no basic driving skills or commonsense. The other thing that $h!ts me off is the massive media blitz by the cops and State government on speeding drivers, when you consider that 0.8% of all fatal road crashes are a direct result of speeding (ABS), the largest by far cause of fatal road crashes is INATTENTION, that's right, not keeping your mind on the task at hand is our biggest killer (ABS). I believe the media campaign is to justify the Governments revenue collection, take a look at one of the ads, it shows a young bloke supposedly speeding in his hopped up silver ute, out in the country, wide open spaces, few trees and he comes around a slight bend in the road and there is a slow moving truck, which he doesn't see till the last minute, he veers to the wrong side of the road and collects a car coming the other way. All that ad says to me is that the young bloke wasn't watching the road, It wouldn't matter if he was doing the speed limit or not, he simply didn't see the truck till he was only a few metres away, INATTENTION YES, SPEEDFING nothing to do with it. How can the Government justify speeding as the DEMON when their own figures prove otherwise, another RIP-OFF, Regards Frank.

Your comments seem fair except that just because someone is "speeding" it does not mean they won't be involved in more than 0.8% of all fatal road crashes.

I problem as I see it is that people don't drive either to the conditions or to their own ability to handle a vehicle.

A good mate of mine said once that going too fast is the major cause of traffic incidents. I did not agree with him at first but he is correct, if the driver of a vehicle could stop before hitting something, or being hit by something, incidents would be minimal.

Food for thought.

[chazza]

Top tips for keeping your cool and staying alive:
1. Ring the police traffic section if you notice heaps of motorists doing the wrong thing e.g. not indicating at roundabouts. Enough calls will bring plod out to give them some roadside education.
2. Drive every day expecting the bloke in front and the one behind to make mistakes - when they do you will be ready for it.
3. Make an allowance for the other bloke - remember you are a safer driver than them; don't let their inability be your problem.
4. Don't get angry; angry drivers are unsafe drivers. When the other bloke stuffs-up, be content that you saw it coming and that you are smarter than he is.
5. Drive to suit the conditions - remember the speed limit is a limit, not a target. Let the tail-gating tosser pass as soon as you can, then he can have his accident in front of you, not on you.
6. If you get angry; play some soothing music and think of something nice, like Elle McPherson. Drive for economy.
7. Understand that some some vehicles like Series Land Rovers; older trucks; and cars with trailers, either can't make the signed speed limit, or are not allowed to. Be patient, you will be able to pass safely eventually and it probably won't be for much longer.

Cheers Chazza

[barryj]

Top tips for keeping your cool and staying alive:
1. Ring the police traffic section if you notice heaps of motorists doing the wrong thing e.g. not indicating at roundabouts. Enough calls will bring plod out to give them some roadside education.
2. Drive every day expecting the bloke in front and the one behind to make mistakes - when they do you will be ready for it.
3. Make an allowance for the other bloke - remember you are a safer driver than them; don't let their inability be your problem.
4. Don't get angry; angry drivers are unsafe drivers. When the other bloke stuffs-up, be content that you saw it coming and that you are smarter than he is.
5. Drive to suit the conditions - remember the speed limit is a limit, not a target. Let the tail-gating tosser pass as soon as you can, then he can have his accident in front of you, not on you.
6. If you get angry; play some soothing music and think of something nice, like Elle McPherson. Drive for economy.
7. Understand that some some vehicles like Series Land Rovers; older trucks; and cars with trailers, either can't make the signed speed limit, or are not allowed to. Be patient, you will be able to pass safely eventually and it probably won't be for much longer.

Cheers Chazza

Very well worded. I fully agree with "the speed limit is a limit, not a target".

It really annoys me if I'm 2kph under the signed speed and some twit wants to go faster. Trucks do this all the time. I wish they would realise that other workers do not push as hard as possible to perform work. By the way, I too used to drive trucks and buses so I have some experience there.

[DiscoStew]

The other thing that $h!ts me off is the massive media blitz by the cops and State government on speeding drivers, when you consider that 0.8% of all fatal road crashes are a direct result of speeding (ABS), the largest by far cause of fatal road crashes is INATTENTION, that's right, not keeping your mind on the task at hand is our biggest killer (ABS). I believe the media campaign is to justify the Governments revenue collection, take a look at one of the ads, it shows a young bloke supposedly speeding in his hopped up silver ute, out in the country, wide open spaces, few trees and he comes around a slight bend in the road and there is a slow moving truck, which he doesn't see till the last minute, he veers to the wrong side of the road and collects a car coming the other way. All that ad says to me is that the young bloke wasn't watching the road, It wouldn't matter if he was doing the speed limit or not, he simply didn't see the truck till he was only a few metres away, INATTENTION YES, SPEEDFING nothing to do with it. How can the Government justify speeding as the DEMON when their own figures prove otherwise, another RIP-OFF, Regards Frank.

Every anti-speeding ad I have seen has really shown inattention as the root-cause, often involving a child distracting a parent. More focus on the "soft skills" of driving should be done.

However if you are speeding you are at greater risk of not being able to stop in time so I have no gripe with speeding tickets.

[Dave110]

most of us know the road rules as this is a requirement for us to gain our licences but what should be a requirement is the use of common sense when driving and I agree with chazza and his tips and to Inc the reason you cant have a 50 cal on the front of your LR is because if you were I'd never be able to afford the ammo! I'd at least put a belt into the stupid driver that beeped me in the roundabout in Sale the other Saturday when I would not let her park in front of me with the other 2 cars that were stopped in the roundabout while six other cars in front of them gave way to someone reversing out of a parking spot!

[hiline]

i hat the moorons that sit on about 80k's on the open roads.....and once you get to the OVERTAKING LANE(Drag Strip)the speed up so nobody can pass:twisted::twisted::twisted:

why carn't people just think for a change:angel:surely it would be better to slowdown and let people past;)

i know i do :D

[100I]

Us westies are enduring works at the end of the Logan motorway onto Ipswich rd:(.

Inbound, I entertain myself watching the fools impulsively laneswapping; as soon as the traffic slows just a little these jokers jump into the other lane, which of course also slows only another 100m further on BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAD THE SAME IDEA. And on it goes. They never get any further than me sitting in the same lane all the way and it also makes absolutely no difference to your times whether you use the left or right lane at rush hour. Just sit tight, give way to people merging on and ride the snake man.
At the end of the slip lanes, to most sane people, it's a simple 1:1 merge, but there is always someone who don't get it. I've even let 2 go in front and been abused by driver #3 because I didn't let him/her in too!!

Heading home, once the traffic starts to build, we have some wisearses at certain points, who exit the Ippich and slip down the service rds, jumping the que at the next merge. The traffic then completely & suddenly grinds to a halt as so many more vehicles attempt to merge at the one place and semi-organised turns to bedlam.
If everybody played fair, everybody would get home sooner.

Any people from the force on here? You know what I've often thought would be a great traffic calming measure? One solo or cruiser parked at the entrance to the service road, radioing thru to the boys at the other end manning a booze bus, and transport inspectors. Every rego called at the start that appeared at the other end could be pulled over for a little bit of time wasting, just to even the score a bit.:twisted:.

[mudmouse]

Is it inattention that leads to exceeding the speed limit or arrogance?

If you can't drive about and by occasionally glancing at the speedo, observe by the passing scenery that you're at or about the speed limit then that's inattention - like running up the bum of someone when they're stopped at the lights..commonly called negligent driving. Speeding however, in terms of 20kph and more above the posted limit is doing what you want when you want to and not giving a toss for others safety/wellbeing - arrogance.

The roads (generally) have engineers assessments as to maximum and recommended speed limits and these are to cover all probable weather conditions. No one gives a rats if you've got a CAMS licence or you're driving a 997 Porsche or of it's 3am, it's a limit and thats that.

Speeding doesn't kill (i hate hearing that crap). It's acceleration, positive or negative; make someone move fast enough and you'll kill 'em. But you can't have that level of acceleration without speed to start with.

I try to remind myself "if i'd done that during my driving test...would i have a licence??" ...and i remember the gruff old bugger that tested me too!

[JDNSW]

........
The roads (generally) have engineers assessments as to maximum and recommended speed limits and these are to cover all probable weather conditions. ......

Perhaps, but in many cases these have little or no relationship to the posted speed limit. My particular gripe is that outside of the Sydney area there are many places where state highways have a posted limit of 50kph where similar roads in the Sydney area (with much heavier traffic) have posted limits of 60, 70 or 80. A few rural villages on highways have limits of 80, but most are 50, even though there is good visibility, no pedestrians and almost no local traffic, and no difference from villages where the limit is 80.

As well, most non-urban roads have a posted limit of 100kph - it is not possible that the engineer's assessment for all of these is exactly 100 - although presumably it is at least 100. And for some reason some stretches of, for example the Newell and Mitchell Highways are 110 not 100 - although this is apparently dependent on the RTA administrative area (private conversation with RTA officer) rather than any engineering assessment.

Having said this, I would point out that if you want to exceed the speed limit, you have no excuses if you get booked - if you think the speed limit is wrong, the answer is to campaign for a different limit, not just drive faster. And remember that the speed limit is just that - not the minimum speed.

John

[mudmouse]

You're quite right John. I must say many of my comments about roads and driving are from an insulated 'Sydney' perspective. I spent six years working from Dubbo and Mudgee with regular trips to Sydney and recall numerous villages with rediculous speed limit changes... I can only wonder it may relate to a fear of litigation, but you would think there should be some consistancy. And why 100 when a similar road is 110 as you say? Ah well. Luckily my wagon, when loaded, is drinking fuel like there's no tomorrow which helps me hover about 90 or so........ The 4BD1 is a tasty looking carrot.

[bigdog]

Is it inattention that leads to exceeding the speed limit or arrogance?

If you can't drive about and by occasionally glancing at the speedo, observe by the passing scenery that you're at or about the speed limit then that's inattention - like running up the bum of someone when they're stopped at the lights..commonly called negligent driving. Speeding however, in terms of 20kph and more above the posted limit is doing what you want when you want to and not giving a toss for others safety/wellbeing - arrogance.

The roads (generally) have engineers assessments as to maximum and recommended speed limits and these are to cover all probable weather conditions. No one gives a rats if you've got a CAMS licence or you're driving a 997 Porsche or of it's 3am, it's a limit and thats that.

Arrogance, maybe...engineers assesments...some of these are 50 years out of date

There can be very different arguments for very different situations. I could argue that on an open, well maintained, unpopulated road you could drive at a speed which is comfortable to you, perhaps 20kph above the posted limit is more than safe.
Discussions in England currently argue that Motorway speed limits should be raised from 70 to 80 Mph.
Many German autobahns have unrestricted speed limits.
Arizona have recently de-restricted some routes.
The Northern territory...unrestricted

Regarding engineers assessments, the Lakes way, perhaps the most poorly maintained stretch of road that I have encountered, has posted speed limits of 100kmh on single lane 'goat tracks' in such need of repair that they are a joke. Interestingly I can legally drive faster on this road than I can on an Uphill, dual carriageway section of the F3 north of Brooklyn (posted 90kmh), a well maintained section of wide tarmac just short of the 110kmh section prescribed as such because it is 'divided' ie there is a grass median strip between the northbound and southbound carriageways all of 30 feet wide.

Yes speed kills, but only in the wrong hands, in the wrong conditions, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

[BigJon]

The Northern territory...unrestricted



Wrong answer. The Victoria, Stuart and Barkly Highways are 130 kph zones, other roads 100 or 110.

[rovercare]

Wrong answer. The Victoria, Stuart and Barkly Highways are 130 kph zones, other roads 100 or 110.

Only inforced as of late but:p

[DiscoTDI]

Ha ha ha, none of you should ever drive in Mackay. Everything I have read here you will see every kilometre on Mackay roads. Best thing is they believe in roundabouts at Mackay council and the locals believe it is whoever gets to it quickest wins. My pet hate is the inability to use indicators and how they seem to be an optional extra on new luxury cars:mad:

[DiscoTDI]

I don't believe you should bag a caravaner for doing 80 in a 100 zone. You must be aware that 100 is the max speed limit. Many caravaners would be dangerous if they pushed their vehicles to suit trucks.


?

Unfortunatly the majority of north queensland roads are single lane highways and with the mining boom on there is an excesive amount of heavy vehicle traffic which is making it difficult for everyone. I recently drove from Moranbah to Brisbane and the stretch south of Rockhampton is a deadly bit of road when you start mixing grey nomads and heavy vehicles, this includes an enormous amount of wide loads.
From Rockhampton to Gympie I spent most of the trip in the oncomming lane overtaking caravans and unfortunatly I will have to say that the majority that I overtook were to big a trailer for the vehicle towing it. Even though the roads are not big enough to take the traffic the fact still remains that alot of people do not have the correct vehicle to tow what they want to take. I was really excited when I saw a Honda CRV towing a dual axle full size caravan, the extention mirrors did not come close to poking out the side of the van:(

[JDNSW]

....... I could argue that on an open, well maintained, unpopulated road you could drive at a speed which is comfortable to you, perhaps 20kph above the posted limit is more than safe.
....

Interestingly, recent court cases in Texas have sustained the argument that speed limits cannot be upheld if they are less than the speed of 80% of the traffic, the argument being that in these cases the speed limit is solely to raise revenue. I rather doubt this would hold water in an Australian court, however, because speed limits in the US are set by local councils, and these are the beneficiaries of the speeding fines, not the state government, which makes the laws controlling the courts.

John

[Tank]

Your comments seem fair except that just because someone is "speeding" it does not mean they won't be involved in more than 0.8% of all fatal road crashes.

I problem as I see it is that people don't drive either to the conditions or to their own ability to handle a vehicle.

A good mate of mine said once that going too fast is the major cause of traffic incidents. I did not agree with him at first but he is correct, if the driver of a vehicle could stop before hitting something, or being hit by something, incidents would be minimal.

Food for thought.
If driving fast causes an accident (fatal or not) then that means the driver was not competent enough to drive at whatever the speed was, it may have been as low as 50klms/hour, but I have seen many people driving at 50k's that should have been driving at 30k's or less, to sut the prevailg conditions, i.e. road conditions, weather, fog and rain, a competent driver will asses the situation and should (would) adjust speed to safely cope with the conditions, that's why there are so many drivers out there that are Dangerous at any speed, incompetent and inexperienced driving is way up there on the Fatal road accident list, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Perhaps, but in many cases these have little or no relationship to the posted speed limit. My particular gripe is that outside of the Sydney area there are many places where state highways have a posted limit of 50kph where similar roads in the Sydney area (with much heavier traffic) have posted limits of 60, 70 or 80. A few rural villages on highways have limits of 80, but most are 50, even though there is good visibility, no pedestrians and almost no local traffic, and no difference from villages where the limit is 80.

As well, most non-urban roads have a posted limit of 100kph - it is not possible that the engineer's assessment for all of these is exactly 100 - although presumably it is at least 100. And for some reason some stretches of, for example the Newell and Mitchell Highways are 110 not 100 - although this is apparently dependent on the RTA administrative area (private conversation with RTA officer) rather than any engineering assessment.

Having said this, I would point out that if you want to exceed the speed limit, you have no excuses if you get booked - if you think the speed limit is wrong, the answer is to campaign for a different limit, not just drive faster. And remember that the speed limit is just that - not the minimum speed.

John
John, an interesting headline in our local papers says "Coroner to investigate 21 deaths on Princes hwy.". Seems the local Federal Pollies are pushing to upgrade the Princes Hwy. from Wollongong to the Vic. border, seems this stretch of road has been committing Murder, it seems to be jumping up when least expected and slaughtering our citizens, I wonder what the cops will do if it is found guilty, close it maybe, or reduce the speed limit to ZERO. That would be the only way you are going to stop people who are incompetent, inattentative, drunk, sleepy, speeding and completely lacking in commonsense, or dangerous at any speed. Solution, maybe, remove permanently drivers that should never have been given a license in the first place, ban for life any Ba$ta&d that drinks and drives, blow up those mongrels that crawl along 20 to 30 k's below the speed limit that then speed up when you go to overtake, this mongrel act probably causes more accidents on rural roads than anything else, the main thing is to train people from school age to be able to handle most likely situations and to acquire driving skills and COMMONSENSE, what do you think?
Regards Frank.

[mudmouse]

As for the speed limits and road condition - legality and safety are rarely the same thing. 180kph on the F3 with no traffic - safe, probably.... 30kph in a 60 zone on New Years eve with heaps if p*ssed pedestrians...legal yes, safe - no way. Horses for courses.

We can reasonably determine and therefore predict our own driving ability and reaction time but what about the other bloke. No one knows what they might or might not do or see. Thats the argument for driving defensively and as mentioned, exercising common sense - that starts waaaaay before the Learners test. And its what all of us see on a daily basis - phones, make up, eating etc - yes, i think driving standards are dropping but its a reflection of other standards that people have and the way they conduct themselves.

[JDNSW]

John, an interesting headline in our local papers says "Coroner to investigate 21 deaths on Princes hwy.". Seems the local Federal Pollies are pushing to upgrade the Princes Hwy. from Wollongong to the Vic. border, seems this stretch of road has been committing Murder, it seems to be jumping up when least expected and slaughtering our citizens, I wonder what the cops will do if it is found guilty, close it maybe, or reduce the speed limit to ZERO. That would be the only way you are going to stop people who are incompetent, inattentative, drunk, sleepy, speeding and completely lacking in commonsense, or dangerous at any speed. Solution, maybe, remove permanently drivers that should never have been given a license in the first place, ban for life any Ba$ta&d that drinks and drives, blow up those mongrels that crawl along 20 to 30 k's below the speed limit that then speed up when you go to overtake, this mongrel act probably causes more accidents on rural roads than anything else, the main thing is to train people from school age to be able to handle most likely situations and to acquire driving skills and COMMONSENSE, what do you think?
Regards Frank.

I haven't been over that bit of the Prince's Highway for at least thirty years, so I can't really comment from first hand experience. But I expect the traffic has increased out of all proportion to the improvements on the road.

It is quite clear that the road conditions are one of the biggest influences on the number of accidents (to a large extent driving skills and more importantly attitude only determine which driver has the accident). I saw a good example of this in the NRMA journal a few years back - they were talking about the Pacific Hwy, and noted that in the previous year widening and duplication had allowed the average speed limit to be increased by about 10% - and despite the increased speeds, the same works cut the number of fatalities by about 30%.

Overall, as I pointed out above, the accident and fatality rates per kilometre driven continue to decrease, although the actual numbers are staying around the same as the number of cars on the road and the number of kilometres driven keep increasing. The most likely reason for this continued decrease is that roads continue to improve, although as everyone can tell you very few are perfect. The statistics do not support the premise of this thread, that driving standards are dropping. My view is that they may even be improving slightly, but have never been very good.

John

[Xavie]

I think standards are dropping for sure. And I think as roads get cluttered more people just get more annoyed and drive in more ridiculous ways. Like when you get stuck behind a truck and it is slow and u try and speed up in to a gap which is half the size of your vehicle and your doing 100km/h, that's plain old dumb. I always just wait even if it takes a few minutes before a gap comes. It's just so dangerous on the roads sometimes.