td5 oil in computer

[rangy01]

Hi!
Just come off the canning stock route, encountered a td5 with the dredded oil in the computer problem.
He and his wife had been stuck there for 12 days.
Some very helpfull people in 2 Nissan patrols and 1 Toyota 75 were eventually able to tow him out (after a recovery attempt from halls creek was unsuccessful).
Why doesn't rover do something to fix the problem, like a recall program. I know these vehicles are now out of warranty etc, but in this case it was a life threatening situation, or at very least abandon the vehicle and get a lift out if poss.
How grateful the owners must be to the rescuers, it was no easy task I assure you.
I know of a japanese motorcycle manufacturer that had a similar problem, although it resulted only in a messy oliy situation, not a complete engine failure. However they did a recall program that entailed sealing the wires etc (not easy).
The two nearest rover dealers were contacted about this situation, but were unable or unwilling to assist as the vehicle was out of warranty (they were many hundreds of K's away).
It was a spectacular add for rover, but in the negative form.

[Slunnie]

I heard about this. Apparently it turned out to be a fuel pump.

[incisor]

bad news....

i feel for the couple who have had the problem

had it been a nissan with a blown 3ltr motor or a toyota with a blown gearbox or a busted front axle assembly out of warranty then the dealers responses would have been the same i dare say..

i would be dam sure if i was taking a td5 out there i would have spares, being in or out of warranty is no help if you are ill prepared... its not as if this is an unknown problem, and it affects other brands as well as rover i believe.

[barney]

a vehicle recall is only done when there is a risk of personal injuryunder normal driving conditions, like with the toyotas cracking suspension arms, and loosing brake calipers, and having axles snap and just fall out of the hub and go their own way.
when it's a non-life threatening mechanical fault they issue a service action advice, which is acted upon when the vehicle comes in for it's next service.
but this will only happen at a land rover service centre, not an independant, and should have been done a fair while ago.
personally, if i had this problem, i would have run an air line into the computer housing to pressurise the casing to prevent anything working it's way in.

[tombraider]

a vehicle recall is only done when there is a risk of personal injuryunder normal driving conditions, like with the toyotas cracking suspension arms, and loosing brake calipers, and having axles snap and just fall out of the hub and go their own way.
when it's a non-life threatening mechanical fault they issue a service action advice, which is acted upon when the vehicle comes in for it's next service.
but this will only happen at a land rover service centre, not an independant, and should have been done a fair while ago.
personally, if i had this problem, i would have run an air line into the computer housing to pressurise the casing to prevent anything working it's way in.

The ECU didnt have oil in it, and an air line will introduce moisture in there and stuff it for sure...

It was a fuel pump that stopped the vehicle....

[barney]

put a moisture trap on it!
just a few psi would do it, just enough to keep the oil and water out.
i also heard of one of our club members that got caught out with a service action problem to do with the wiring loom.
he got up and screamed blue murder at landrover for keeping information from us in the form of a wiring diagram so they could diagnose an ignition fuse blowing while on a trip on googs track which immobilised them.
truth was he had it serviced at an independant land rover "specialist". if he had taken it to a dealer, it would have been fixed months before he went away. it was just a wiring loom getting abraded on the edge of a metal bracket, the outcome of which was a blown fuse. which fuse depended on which wire in the loom was rubbing. the fix was to wrap the loom in a split condiut and eliminate the independant movement of the loom and bracket.

[ak]

As said above it was a fuel pump. Anyone that takes a car that's 3, 4 plus years old into a remote area with out spares and not in perfect mechanical order is asking for trouble. Don't blame the car blame the idiot behind the wheel for that one.

[LandyAndy]

Barney
Wont work!!!!
The oil tracks up the inside of the wires,doesnt usually actually get inside the ECU.
The oil allows the electronic signals to be interfered with at the various comnnector plugs.Much like a claytons short circuit.Doesnt create a short,but enables signals to be crossed.
Andrew

[rangy01]

bad news....

i feel for the couple who have had the problem

had it been a nissan with a blown 3ltr motor or a toyota with a blown gearbox or a busted front axle assembly out of warranty then the dealers responses would have been the same i dare say..

i would be dam sure if i was taking a td5 out there i would have spares, being in or out of warranty is no help if you are ill prepared... its not as if this is an unknown problem, and it affects other brands as well as rover i believe.

The owner had only just bought the vehicle, and not being a rover buff, he had no knowledge of the potential problem. The loom certainly had leaked oil, I saw it(which may or may not have caused this problem, but wcertainly would have eventually). However I agree, preperation and research is a vital issue when entering such remote places.

[D110V8D]

Didn't someone say something about it being the fuel pump?:angel:

[roverfj1200]

Didn't someone say something about it being the fuel pump?:angel:


And who would carry a fuel pump.:eek:

Me if I was that far from town...:D

But if you cannot work out whats wrong you sure can't fix it..:eek:

There is a lot of people doing these trips who can't change a tire so carrying spares is of no value..They trust someone who can fix it will come along..:mad:

Thats what you get when the untrained buy SUV's(hate that term) and think they can head any where they bloody well please..:mad:


I feel better now..:D:D:D

[tombraider]

And who would carry a fuel pump.:eek:

Me if I was that far from town...:D

But if you cannot work out whats wrong you sure can't fix it..:eek:

There is a lot of people doing these trips who can't change a tire so carrying spares is of no value..They trust someone who can fix it will come along..:mad:

Thats what you get when the untrained buy SUV's(hate that term) and think they can head any where they bloody well please..:mad:


I feel better now..:D:D:D

I hate SUV too, so I dont use it... :twisted:

And ours are NOT SUV's.....

They're Four wheel drive wagons....

I believe before any remote area permits are given that people should have to do a cert 1 mechanical course at TAFE....

[Blknight.aus]

fuel pumps, huh, thats just for starters, mate my last big trip I carried a whole fuel tank, and the supports for it...

you should have seen all the other gimmickry in the trailer... :)

(mind you I was moving at the time from wodonga to ipswich..)

[McDisco]

The previous posts have been partly correct. It was the oil in the loom that stopped the vehicle and not a fuel pump as originally thought.

The owner had just bought the disco and it had lots of toys, but it was far from tested and I dont think he knew much about its history. He was not prepared for the trip, did not have a rave CD with him or any major spares. It had been bought about 2 month prior to the trip.

They were offered a ride back down the route to an aboriginal settlement but declined and chose to stay with the vehicle. They were well provisioned with water and food for up to 5-6 weeks. They had arranged a recovery from Halls Creek but the mechanic in a large 4wd Hino truck kept on staking tyres and had to turn back. Lucky in a way as the recovery was going to cost $15,000!! ouch!

A number of attempts had been made to tow them out prior to the patrols turning up, but hadnt been that sucessful. I am amazed they managed to tow them out!

When the disco first broke down, 3 days were spent trying to get it running again with many LR experts being called with no joy. The problem couldnt be diagnosed.

It does show that untested vehicles and new 4wders shouldnt go straight out onto the CSR. I hope they havent lost their interest in touring and seeing our wonderful country though...

Angus

[MT]

:mad:
if he had taken it to a dealer, it would have been fixed months before he went away.

Mate,

Referring to this, and your previous post in this thread about the service advice - I would like to know what dealer you reckon does all this. I had my bus serviced by dealers in four states over five years -during which time the problem with oil in the loom was known of and subject to a tech notice. Not one of the buggers raised it, addressed it, or told me about it - nor does it figure in any of their paperwork.

First time I take it to an 'independent' ( you know- the guys that you have so freely bagged) - he finds oil in the loom and tells me about it. I susbequently take the problem to two dealers and LR Australia and get told 'stiff ****' . (and this was when it was still covered by LR extended warranty).

I think you need to get you facts straight before you get on here and preach to us about how good the LR dealer service is. I, and many others on this site, have had similar experiences with this problem. There are not words to adequately express how crappily LR has treated Australian TD5 owners about rectifying this problem - especially when you consider that it was actually a 'free' fix in the UK.

Based on my experiences over the last seven years I am firmly of the opinion that the majority of 'official' LR service sites are money gouging useless B#$%tards with zero customer service ethic. Same with dealers - love you when you are buying, do not want to know you the minute that the deal is closed and there is a problem.

[rangy01]

As said above it was a fuel pump. Anyone that takes a car that's 3, 4 plus years old into a remote area with out spares and not in perfect mechanical order is asking for trouble. Don't blame the car blame the idiot behind the wheel for that one.

I spoke to the owner at the scene, and again since his vehicle was recovered, I dont think he was an idiot. How many spares should you carry? Several vehicles were in trouble at the time, cracked chassis, broken springs etc, possibly from the amount of gear they were carrying.
This is a known problem!
By the way, I have just contacted the people who transported the vehicle, it still appears to have been the comp. I will contact the owner when he returns and post a definite result.
By the way, I also enjoy my rangy and tdi disco, I'm not against landy's, but still feel this issue has been neglected by land rover.

[tombraider]

and a recovery course...
and an offroad driving course
and an advanced first aid course
and a radio operators course

get real.... :mad:

OK then! Heres real.... :2up:

Basic CPR is good to have.. Full stop!

Radio operators course is usually provided IF you buy a HF new, otherwise most radio shops have a "how to use a HF" night... Not a bad idea if you have one! :cool:

Offroad driving course.. Optional.. But some idea of basic recovery techniques, safety measures etc should be part of your trip preparation....
Clubs provide this facility..... :D

Being able to drive safely, recover safely is certainly a HUGE plus in the middle of freakin' nowhere :angel:


Now BACK to my previous post....

If doing tracks like 'Madigans', CSR, GBH etc....
You SHOULD have some damn idea how the mode of transport your riding in WORKS.... :BigThumb:

Cert 1 @ TAFE is a cheap course, that helps the mechanically inept to learn the basics of a vehicle.

How to check Oil, Water, Tyres, Shocks etc...

It gives an understanding of what to check on a vehicle.....

It also touches on the basics of how to get going again if its something small, and how to check through things to try to find the issue.....

People who do remote area travel without preparation, simple mechanical knowledge etc... Put themselves and others at risk... Simple!!!

Basic training, be it from a club, TAFE etc... helps prepare travellers for the unknown....

[tombraider]

get real.... :mad:

Bloody amazing........ :p


I post an opinion that is based on SAFETY and I cop a mouthful.....


GET REAL....

[barryj]

barryj keeps very quiet in this thread (I was a TAFE teacher for 16 and a half years so I know how standards have declined, any mechanical course would be valuable though).

barryj now slinks off in the background :whistling:.

[tombraider]

OK...

A good read for those thinking of heading remote offroad....

http://www.exploroz.com/OntheRoad/Survival/Outback_Survival.aspx



I can't grow a thicker skin... Used it all on my thick head ;)

But I have done...

Advanced First Aid
Advanced 4WD training, both club and Outside trainers
Multiple vehicle control courses
Several Mechanical Courses (including Aircraft)
HF radio courses
Map reading and Navigation courses
OH & S certificates
Rigging courses (useful in recoveries but overkill!)
Welding and Metal fabrication certificates
Electronics and Electrical certification

I post my thoughts based on a focus on SAFETY....

Many people have facets of safety they apply every day, some at work, some at home...

But many people fail to consider the ramifications of certain things.... Or consider the expense outstrips the issue...

Example: Ever stood on a chair to change a light bulb?
At work, it would be a breach of OH&S....
Yet we do it all the time.

MY COMMENTS/OPINIONS are posted to make people think, or as work puts it "Take 2" and consider the repercussions of what you do (or don't do)...

Its the same as....... Here comes another opinion......

When offroading, get your partner to drive, to learn the techniques etc for offroad driving...

The reason I say this is, should you both be travelling and the driver gets injured and cannot continue driving then at least the passenger has experience in the vehicle and knowledge to help them get you both to safety...

:cool:

[McDisco]

Well I actually agree with Mike on this one. Too many people are getting out there without enough experience and basic knowledge. Life experience and logic helps but that aint gonna help you with a stranded car if you have not experience.

Most people do these type of trips without much drama...but that not a reason not to be over prepared! It is for that 1 in 1000 chance when things go to ***** that you will need to be prepared and know how your vehicle works etc.

You cannot be over prepared for these sort of trips!

Angus

[McDisco]

No you dont have do a course...but I wouldnt imagine where people are "newbies" that it would be a very good idea. You can just head out without any preparedness...

The people that are the topic of this thread were newbies and didnt understand their vehicle. Perhaps a bit of tech knowledge and understanding the issues associated with your vehicle may have helped...

Angus

[Jezzaol]

Sorry to but in on this discussion and change the subject but can any one tell me what causes the oil to get up the wires into the ECU ?? and what do Landrover in the UK do in the FREE fix up as stated ??

And if there is oil in and around the ECU what are the steps that should be taken ?

Cheers

[numpty]

Important point with regards to these people and anyone doing remote area travel for that matter, never travel alone.

[Bushwanderer]

Important point with regards to these people and anyone doing remote area travel for that matter, never travel alone.

x2:o

[tombraider]

Important point with regards to these people and anyone doing remote area travel for that matter, never travel alone.

Absolutely!

[weeds]

Q....re: rig road at the bottom of the simpson desert....what are your thought about travelling by ones selfs on this track

2 years ago I did it with no other cars, although I didn't see another car for nearly two and half days

[tombraider]

Q....re: rig road at the bottom of the simpson desert....what are your thought about travelling by ones selfs on this track

2 years ago I did it with no other cars, although I didn't see another car for nearly two and half days

Did you have someone with you? A sat phone?

IMO, Whilst not travelling alone is the safest.. I have also done solo vehicle travel (with partner)
We had spares, supplies for a week and both have Adv 1st Aid, mechanical knowledge etc...

Plus a sat phone for emergency contact and a borrowed epirb...

I even had a full medical and heart scan before the trip to make sure I'd be ok!

This was a calculated trip where we could get help before supplies ran out etc...

So yes, I'd say it was OK...

[weeds]

Had the following

My dad, no mechanical knowledge (didn't even help with the master cylinder rebuild at mt dare)
5 yo son
Sat phone
GPS
First Aid kit
Map
Food for 12 days
Plenty of water
Spare parts kit provided by local repair
Pre trip maintenance carry out by me (upgrade rear axles, replaced all fluids, clutch slave)

[Onethirty]

I think the key to any remote trip is risk management.

Know the risks, have a very precise plan as to how you will deal with problems should they arise, and above all stick to the plan as it has been made in the comfort of your home pre trip, not in the field with the brown stuff hitting the fan.

Too many people head out without considering the risks...risk taking is fine, but you at least must know what they are.

[duff]

Just a quick one on the oil in loom problem.

I have had the oil in loom prob since day one. I carry a can of contact cleaner, if and when it has raised its ugly head I spray clean the comp and loom head and Bobs ya uncle. it seems to take about six months between hiccups and is no real problem. one day I may change the loom ,,, but if I only have to clean the comp and loom head 20 times over the next ten years I might not bother.

WOW,, $15000. or difficult recovery for all that may well be avoided by a $15 can of contact cleaner,,, he says walking off giggling. TIC