Holden v's Ford

[Fusion]

I find this very funny being a Land Rover site and yet if you bring up the H word or the F word people go nuts. I know between the 2 cars they have had some good battles on the race track but lets face it what we are driving on the road is nothing like the race car . Other than the engine and suspension both cars get the same parts from the same factory's . Don't get me wrong i'm Holden all the way but i don't take the pi$$ out of people because they support Ford ... anyways thats my 2 cents :D

[rangieman]

I find this very funny being a Land Rover site and yet if you bring up the H word or the F word people go nuts. I know between the 2 cars they have had some good battles on the race track but lets face it what we are driving on the road is nothing like the race car . Other than the engine and suspension both cars get the same parts from the same factory's . Don't get me wrong i'm Holden all the way but i don't take the pi$$ out of people because they support Ford ... anyways thats my 2 cents :D

How about you go paint your LR :p
Dont come in here trying get peoples emotions all fired up :BigCry::Rolling::rulez:

[JDNSW]

Personally I am not enthused about either. I've never owned either since the model T I partly learned to drive on, although I have had both as company cars.

John

[Redback]

Personally i think they are both pretty ordinary cars, there's no inovation or anything hightech or even very high in reliablity about them, yet they seem to sell.

Oh yeah and as for the holden v ford racing, please, big whoop you can beat one other car, WOW:zzz::zzz:

Baz.

[roverfj1200]

How come the racing organizers have band all the cars that can whip Holden and fords ass from racing against them..:mad:

As an offroader I wouldn't stop other 4x4's coming with me...But Then again I do drive the best..:D:D

[B92 8NW]

There shouldn't be any wars, death or despair...

Holden or GTFO

Its simple:)

[walker]

All this talk is just irrelevent.

We all know Craig Lowndes is the best touring car driver around and that he now with the right/best manufacturer. :twisted:

[landyfromanuthaland]

who cares which is better, holden is struggling at the moment, ford is doing not much better, on a personal note I love my fords, but I also love early holdens like FJs and miss my old 75 Valiant Regal very much

[roverfj1200]

who cares which is better, holden is struggling at the moment, ford is doing not much better, on a personal note I love my fords, but I also love early holdens like FJs and miss my old 75 Valiant Regal very much


Yeah Yeah..Valiant...:D:D:D:D:D

[Fusion]

ok I'll fall into this ..... craig lowndes done a hell of alot better in a holden than a ford .... and it was peter brock that taught him to drive a v8 supercar ... but yes he is one of the best ever to hit the track :D

[Redback]

There shouldn't be any wars, death or despair...

Holden or GTFO

Its simple:)

I prefer the GTHO myself:p

[EchiDna]

neither would stand a chance if they let the nissan skyline back in :)

[dobbo]

neither would stand a chance if they let the nissan skyline back in :)

I didn't want to be the one to state the obvious. If they had some real "supercars" in the race it would be a lot more interesting. A Skyline, when they bring out the current version would really upset a few folk on top of that mountain.

[Blknight.aus]

we get that argument all the time at work. I trump them with you get to pick either the track or the type of race, I will choose the other and I will race you both with my landrover.

I usually win by making sure that the factor I control tilts the scale heavily in my favor.

Its pretty hard to race a RWD vehicle with the rear prop shaft removed and most holdens/fords dont get far on the soft beachs.

[Slunnie]

ok I'll fall into this ..... craig lowndes done a hell of alot better in a holden than a ford .... and it was peter brock that taught him to drive a v8 supercar ... but yes he is one of the best ever to hit the track :D
I think Lowndes is an excellent driver, likewise skaife, brock and a host of others in that catagory, but I really don't think that he is the best of the best out there and that was something highlighted in the seasons after moving to Ford. I think one of the problems with V8 Supercars is that there is a fair disparity between vehicles, even of the same make, and that masks some of the good drivers and some of the 2nd rung (but still better than 99.9% of the population) drivers look excellent due to the particular vehicle they drive. Admittedly much of the car development comes back to the driver but there is more to those stories.

Out of interest, I tend to also think the same happens in other racing such as F1 where some manufacturers focus totally on producing a vehicle that "anybody" could drive well such as Mclaren.

All of this said, I haven't really followed the motorsports closely for the last couple of years.

[Grimace]

who cares which is better, holden is struggling at the moment, ford is doing not much better, on a personal note I love my fords, but I also love early holdens like FJs and miss my old 75 Valiant Regal very much

Thats a load of bull****, the new commodore is a very popular and very well built car. I own a SS thunder ute and its a peice of ****, so I am not saying this purely cause I am a holden fan.

I will openly admit that the older holdens where not much chop, and fords have been total rubbish of late except for afew of the BA models.

Ill be selling my ute soon and Its will be replaced by a seriesII disco i think :D

LR ALL THE WAY MY FRIEND :D

[Ace]

V8 Supercars is a business simple as that, they do what ever gets people in the gates, i really dont have a preference for make or model, i just support the driver(s) i like most, regardless of the badge, i follow most forms of motorsport, not so much road bike racing, love motocross though.

Yes the days of the multi makes was much more interesting but you simply cant have that these days, yes a skyline would flog the pants off a V8 supercar, thats plain obvious, a turbo 6 all wheel drive monster versus a heavy 660hp rear wheel drive car that has trouble putting that power to the ground. But hey a V8 Supercar will beat a mini so all is good.

The other makes were phased out and "banned" as some say because the organisers didnt see it as good for the sport, in the end people didnt care about the nissans, beemers, jags and even volvos in the end it was holden or ford they wanted to see, so thats what the fans got. I for one loved the good old days i remember as a kid going to bathurst during the 80's and seeing a Cosworth Sierra (love em) up against Godzilla, corrola's and beemers, now that was good racing, but the response Jim Richards and Skaife got when they won in the early in the nissans put the nail in the multi make coffin and it soon turned into a two horse race. Since doing so The Australia Touring Car Championship, now V8 Supercars has become one of the fastest growing sports in the country, more so than football, maybe not as popular footy has its fans but V8s will be nipping at its heels soon. The only disadvantage V8's has is that there are 14 rounds a year not several games each weekend for a large part of the year.

[tombraider]

Go the GTP racing...

Real cars, the real way, as per the old Days...

[barryj]

They both look the same these days so who cares?

At the end of it they all get crushed anyway and return as several Hyundai's :o.

[roverfj1200]

They both look the same these days so who cares?

At the end of it they all get crushed anyway and return as several Hyundai's :o.


:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

And made in their factory soon.....:wasntme:

[dobbo]

They both look the same these days so who cares?

At the end of it they all get crushed anyway and return as several Hyundai's :o.


You may be on to something there. What gets me is the morons up on the mountain who think Holden is still an Australian company.

[Ace]

Go the GTP racing...

Real cars, the real way, as per the old Days...

gotta agree with that, they dont put it on telly all that often but its good racing, the brute utes are good to. I also dont mine watching the commodore cup those guys dont mind swapping paint

[Fusion]

[QUOTE= What gets me is the morons up on the mountain who think Holden is still an Australian company.[/QUOTE]

Might not be an Aussie company but is 90% Aussie made and designed ;)

[George130]

Lost interest when it became Ford and Holden only.
Still a NISSAN fan and always will be.

[Fusion]

I think if any other company was to come into the v8's it would be Toyota or maybe even Mitsubishi . Being the other to major car sellers in Oz :wasntme:

[googe]

ford v holden should have always stayed as it was its "australian manufctures championships" so to speak :)..an lownsy is one of the best theres been hes a great example of driver verses car,just depends on if u can drive hey ;)

[Slunnie]

Thats interesting. One of the familys at my work built and used a V8 Magna RWD in an effort to do this and fit the catagories rules, but thats now history. The funny thing is that he reckoned he could probably get more power out of the Magna V6 than the 5 litre.

[roverfj1200]

Thats interesting. One of the familys at my work built and used a V8 Magna RWD in an effort to do this and fit the catagories rules, but thats now history. The funny thing is that he reckoned he could probably get more power out of the Magna V6 than the 5 litre.


More power from a magna v6..To easy..:D

[dobbo]

More power from a magna v6..To easy..:D


Don't rule out the magna 6

Now who has an old turbo, I grab the missus' old car to play with.

[roverfj1200]

Don't rule out the magna 6

Now who has an old turbo, I grab the missus' old car to play with.

Not ruling out ruling in.. The magna is a s@#t hot machine..Rip a crumbldore apart..not to mention a fard..:D

[MrsMcRover]

Thats a load of bull****, the new commodore is a very popular and very well built car. I own a SS thunder ute and its a peice of ****, so I am not saying this purely cause I am a holden fan.

I will openly admit that the older holdens where not much chop, and fords have been total rubbish of late except for afew of the BA models.

Ill be selling my ute soon and Its will be replaced by a seriesII disco i think :D

LR ALL THE WAY MY FRIEND :D


I know Exactly where your comming from. My Boss for instance has a 2003 Monaro. Nothing but trouble Trades up to a 2006 Range Rover V8 turbo Sport. As for the Company Cars the New Series 1 BA ute , nothing but trouble and brought 4. Neither are much good of late!

[Bigbjorn]

Not ruling out ruling in.. The magna is a s@#t hot machine..Rip a crumbldore apart..not to mention a fard..:D

The Magna has not stood the test of the marketplace. Go to used car auctions and note the prices paid for Magnas against equivalent Commodores and Falcons. Commodores are dearest, followed by Falcons, and Magnas way behind. Many used dealers wont have one in the yard, and once about 8 years old generally only wreckers bid on them. An 8-10 year old Magna fetches about 1/3 what a Commodore will.

[dobbo]

The Magna has not stood the test of the marketplace. Go to used car auctions and note the prices paid for Magnas against equivalent Commodores and Falcons. Commodores are dearest, followed by Falcons, and Magnas way behind. Many used dealers wont have one in the yard, and once about 8 years old generally only wreckers bid on them. An 8-10 year old Magna fetches about 1/3 what a Commodore will.


Isn't that the appeal?

[landyfromanuthaland]

Sounds like some of u missed out on holdens plans to have parts manufactured in China, eventually its possible that holden and ford respectively will have there cars manufactured in china as the red tape here with keeping a big biz like that going without all the iterference is getting harder, too many restaints just making things unprofitable, everything is made in china now, even woolies veges come from China, I loveit when the holden and ford camps get going, u can bloody well near start a war, bring back the valiant it was the car that kept them all on there toes, the old 265 charger if it had a fourth gear on the track would have probably flogged the HO Ford, then new A9X that was on the boards prior to Evan Green opening his trap and killing the supercars would have flogged them all, Fords great Ph4 XA GT would have been a sight to see on the track, how fast it would have gone down conrod was not known. guessed but not known. But u can bet it would blow the doors of a Landy and probably a myriad of other parts as well, enuff of this Holden and Ford ****, back to Landy chatter please, by the way I own 2 Fords a 2000 AU and a lovely 78 Fairlane with the finest V8 ever made, would happily blow the AU up but the old Fairlane is sweet..

[landyfromanuthaland]

Who bought up Magnas? thought u were pulling the **** out the Fords and Holdens

[googe]

The xy ho was the greatest :) im with landyfromanuthaland on this one who brought jap crap into this lol who knows what "ho" stands for ?

[Ken]

Grand
Touring
Handling
Option

FORDS RULE

After Land Rovers of course !!

[googe]

:) "HO" first stood for "high output" but the press got wind of it and they changed it to handling options,just like when the press killed the phase 4 dam shame :) sorry im a motor head,im realy loving this site,im a converted now i think lol cheers :)
Greg

[Traveler]

Ford all the way...you will see many a holden with a ford 9 inch diff... and the ford toploader gearbox is one strong box...me personally, my favourite small block motor was the 351 windsor...i had an XA which we fitted with 351 windsor, toploader, 9 inch disc brake rear end...very noice;)
next car i owned was 65 Galaxie,390 big block, FMX auto what a cruise mobile:cool:

[barryj]

The xy ho was the greatest :) im with landyfromanuthaland on this one who brought jap crap into this lol who knows what "ho" stands for ?

Yep I have to agree. My first car was an xy falcon 500 as I could not afford a v8 till I finished my apprenticeship :).


By the way, the HO means HO HO I want one for Christmas please :p.

[googe]

aww sounds nice Traveler :) love the windsor's:) specialy the boss windsor (drols) :) lol,what a classic the galaxie :)

btw,barryj "gt" means grand torismo lol its on my chrissy list first :p

[landyfromanuthaland]

I recently sold my beloved 1963 Compact Fairlane, that was a car!

[Utemad]

My last car was a Holden Rodeo. I loved it. Holden all the way! No way I'd drive Jap crap :p:D.

[Slunnie]

Holden also. We've had a VT Berlina which was an absolutely excellent car, and also one of the first Frontera V6's which was a nice 4WD but the dealers were incompetant in fixing simple probs and the auto was too marginal - so it went.

[rovercare]

:) "HO" first stood for "high output" but the press got wind of it and they changed it to handling options,just like when the press killed the phase 4 dam shame :) sorry im a motor head,im realy loving this site,im a converted now i think lol cheers :)
Greg

And killed the VJ E48 and the XU-2;)

[rovercare]

My last car was a Holden Rodeo. I loved it. Holden all the way! No way I'd drive Jap crap :p:D.

You mean the holden rodeo.....made by Isuzu.........In Japan:p

[landyfromanuthaland]

My dad has sitting in his garage a 1985 VK Berlina V8, was custom built for the big wigs at Holden as a factory run around, got all the gear, Brocky donk and police suspension, dad dont drive coz he blind now, its in very good condition, whats it worth? certianly a nice well built old car,

[Searover]

Scary stuff.....brocky taught Lownes to drive V8's.....Both have driven Holden & Fords
lets hope Lownes doesn't enter targa west.

I don't think the Jap Manufactures are interested in producing a push rod V8 just to compete in the Cochran circus, AKA V8 supercars.

[Fusion]

As nice as the GTHO phase 3 was it had the handling capabilities of a transit van . extremely talented in a straight line but hit a corner and you needed sea sick pills . Holden has always handled better and still does to this day . Why do you think they made holden get rid of the strut in the v8's ???? cos it handled better than the wishbone set up . And thats why holden also has to run ford based heads on the motor . So ford could catch up .... I know this will start a slinging match but its a fact :D:wasntme:

[jsp]

must admit I live about 5 k's from the Holden factory, and you see old bombadors pull up next to you at the lights with the illegal tinted window and the crooked body kit held on with gaffa tape on one side, the doof doof going emphasizing the rattle of body panels, the blue leds on the tire valve caps and windscreen washer jets, revving the crap outa it with blue smoke pouring out the back.....scary people..........:soapbox:

I just raise the car up a few inches to avoid them in my rear vision mirror and take my time :) At least I know I am safe around here they all seem to know the rangies alloys wont fit their cars and they leave me alone :)

Personally holdens over fords, had a vl berlina once was a nice car, think it had a nissan motor or something in it.

Build quality on the new holdens mitsubishis and toyotas at work is not what I would call great at all....

[scrambler]

V8 supercars is a marketing exercise, not a sport. That Holdens sell better than Fords and both sell much better than Magnas comes down to the marketing for V8 supercars. As for Holden being all Australian - not since General Motors bought in - i.e. before they ever built a full car.

On the racing side of things - the Ford and Holden marketing departments could see the overseas tourers coming in every year and taking the prizes. The Nissans were unbeatable, except possibly by the Cosworths (assuming they could lift their game). But the marketing lads could see that sales of ricers would increase and the big "family" cars they were tooled up to produce would drop - meaning lower profits. And if it weren't for the V8s I doubt the Falcon or Commodore would exist. More people would buy "smaller" cars.

Sit in a 60's Ford/Holden again and tell me you can't get the same (or rather, more) interior space, comforts, speed and handling from a $20,000 Korean :twisted:

[Reads90]

Personally i don't get into this arguement as i come form the UK
Where the Holden (Vauxhall) and Ford are both crap cars (same cars as here) which you buy for your wife for her to go to the supermarket and pick the kids up from school, and that is about it :)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Go the GTP racing...

Real cars, the real way, as per the old Days...

Exactly. Unfortunately though, the local heroes are always going to get beaten, and their are too many people in Aus that just like motor racing to see holden/ford win :(

That's why they like v8 supercars. It's just a control formula to ensure that either make has a similar chance of winning. It's entertainment. Excellent.

For me I consider myself a car enthusiast. Hence, I am trying to work my way through all the brands, and consider it the height of sadness for someone to love just Holden or Ford. But then, life is short... if that makes you happy :)

[JohnE]

Same old same old,

Worked with a bloke years ago, old Lenny Howell ( no longer with us)
He worked on the line at GMH at Pagewood. During the sixties,
Never drove a holden, nor a ford, reckoned if you got either car ( from that vintage) and turned them upside down and shook them they would fall apart. This from a guy who made them.

So it boils down to personal taste in my opinion.


john

[numpty]

V8 Supercars are disappointing really. In the days when Group A was going to be the thing, Bernie Ecclestone got involved and wanted to turn the local racing into a silhouette formula. ie same chassis/drive train, with your choice of bodies. Everyone screamed:o Oh no you can't do that.
I humbly suggest, this is what we have now with the supercar circus.:angel:

[MarknDeb]

Holden :lol2: they say its better than a BMW :Rolling::Rolling:
Ford well i wouldn’t own one but at least they done make a ridiculous statement like above.

I hope Jeremy Clarkson comes out and test drives the crumbledoor to ridicule it like he does the yanks cars
and show it for what it really is.

[barryj]

Holden :lol2: they say its better than a BMW :Rolling::Rolling:
Ford well i wouldn’t own one but at least they done make a ridiculous statement like above.

I hope Jeremy Clarkson comes out and test drives the crumbledoor to ridicule it like he does the yanks cars
and show it for what it really is.

Mark, you are cruel, true but cruel :D.

[BigJon]

I hope Jeremy Clarkson comes out and test drives the crumbledoor to ridicule it like he does the yanks cars
and show it for what it really is.

Except he will probably love it. They all go gaga over the Monaro, and the new Commodore is better than that.

[CraigE]

There is no comparrison Holdens are better.
Just look at the GTHO fast, but can not handle or brake, beaten by a little Torana.
:p:p
I am a Holden man through and through but I like most cars including the Furds (Nothing past the XC though), Valiants etc.
Its like a following a footy team.

[MarknDeb]

Except he will probably love it. They all go gaga over the Monaro, and the new Commodore is better than that.

crumbledoor is built to the same build quality as the monaro :lol2: :Rolling:, our cars are built to the same quality and conditions as our roads, need i say more on that. We had the last of the VS Equips (run out model) and to compare with the Disco well there is no comparason at least when i do a days drive in the Disco i get out fealing the same as when i got in (not including off road), In the end of our accociation with holden Deb even refused to drive the car, she would walk to the shops and leave it in the garage, it had more visits to the dealers for waranty than half the discos on here :(

[MarknDeb]

There is no comparrison Holdens are better.
Just look at the GTHO fast, but can not handle or brake, beaten by a little Torana.
:p:p
I am a Holden man through and through but I like most cars including the Furds (Nothing past the XC though), Valiants etc.
Its like a following a footy team.

You cant compare a GTHO against a torana for braking ability, thats like comparing a Ferrari against a go cart racing on a go cart track, now it would be interesting to put them on a track like the Nuremberg Ring to see what to out come would be

[Tank]

As nice as the GTHO phase 3 was it had the handling capabilities of a transit van . extremely talented in a straight line but hit a corner and you needed sea sick pills . Holden has always handled better and still does to this day . Why do you think they made holden get rid of the strut in the v8's ???? cos it handled better than the wishbone set up . And thats why holden also has to run ford based heads on the motor . So ford could catch up .... I know this will start a slinging match but its a fact :D:wasntme:
Did you come to this incredulous conclusion because you OWNED a GTHO or are you just passing on the crap that most holden fans make up as they go, I owned a XY GT (not HO) and it was the quickest off the factory floor 4 door car in the world at that time, around corners too, back in 1971 there was nothing on the street that would even go close to the GT. For all those Holden Fans out there that believe Holdens were designed in Australia, think again, Opel, Vauxhall and Pontiac are the basis of Australia's own, the only way holden could beat Ford was to import a Vauxhall from England (Torana) and stuff a Big 6 and a V8 into a small 4cyl. car weighing half as much and go racing, when Ford countered by bringing in the Ford Sierras all the holden fans chucked a Tizzy because they didn't like watching their Vauxhalls (Toranas) get their a*$e kicked. I dont mind competition between Ford and Holden (GMC Chevrolet), but lets call a spade a spade and have no more rubbish about Holden being Australia's own, Ford have never claimed to be Australia's own and all Ford Falcons since 1971 have been designed and engineered by Australians in Australia and you can thank Ford Australia for the UTE, first designed and engineered by an Australian in Australia and built by Ford Australia, Regards Frank.

[Fusion]

And yet again ford fans forget about the A9X winning by six laps and busting the lap record on the last lap . Can't say i've seen or heard of a ford doing that ?????:o

[Bigbjorn]

Ah, yes. The "Mighty Falcon GT" myth. Won at Bathurst in 67 with 289 cubes against 1275cc minis. Lost in 68 to Holden GTS 327's. Lost in 1969 to Holden GTS 350's. In fact I seem to recall the GTS 350's filled 7 of the first 10 places that year. won in 70 & 71 with 351 cubes against 186 Toranas. Lost again in 72 with 351 cubes against 202 Toranas. Looks like they could win only against cars with engines half the size or less of the Falcon's, and even then, not all the time.

[HSVRangie]

Not to mention the year dick ran 351 instead of 302s.

lead all the way but could not finish would have been caught out.

evvery one in pit lane new
the flag marshals all new.

Sponsors happy.

M

[Bigbjorn]

The hostility of the fans caused the Sierras and Nissans to be declared ineligible. The race then was for production cars, in price classes, supposedly on sale at retail in Australia and 200 identical examples had to have been available for retail sale. The Sierras were factory prepared thinly disguised pure racing cars, & the Nissans not quite that. Neither could remotely be considered to be available for retail sale in Australia. CAMS at the time had visions of grandeur, looking enviously at the European Touring Car Championship and the US TransAm series and were trying to get high class international entrants, so they permitted entries that did not meet the regulations or the spirit, which the fans realised and booed loudly.

[Bigbjorn]

Not to mention the year dick ran 351 instead of 302s.

lead all the way but could not finish would have been caught out.

evvery one in pit lane new
the flag marshals all new.

Sponsors happy.

M

And the year the Ford factory team were shod with Firestone racing tyres that would not fit on privateer's cars as they fouled the steering and suspension. Not homologated!!! Just as well they all retired hurt as the protest forms and cheques were ready and waiting.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I looked at this after the FIRST post and thought--
Parking Lot? yes, no, maybe---
:D

[CraigE]

Hang 5, touring car racing has never been about straight line speed, granted the HO would win in straight line but that was not what racing was about, you have to be able to brake and turn to. The cars entered have to be able to compete on the nominated tracks, not fantasy tracks that have no consequence. This is ultimately why Ford were no good in racing for most of the 70's. If we were at Nuremburg ring then Holden would have obviously gone for cubes too, but as it was touring car racing went for handling. Most Ford fans have not gotten over the embarrassment and the best they can come up with is what about a straight line race or a banked circuit. Please.:twisted:
I love the GT's but not my perfect car by a long shot and yes I have driven them fro XT, XR, XW, XY and XYGTHO as well as many other various high performance and not so high performance makes.
If we want to be factual the E49 Charger is actually quicker than a HO, do the research.:eek:
Lets do it right, we will put a HO against an LJ Torana with a 350 in it and compare apples with apples. It would be no contest. I have been in an LJ 308 let alone a 350 and that flogged a standard XY GTHO over the quarter.:p
Not to mention a good friends LX SS 308 Torana that had it engine and drive crafted by the owner clocked at 270kph by the police, twice to make sure. That car put out G forces a HO could only dream about. It sailed past me on my GSX1100 and I was doing 245kph.
Then we could get into options Holden had at its disposal but chose not to use such as the 454 but that is irrelevant as are the Ford supporter unfair claims.

You cant compare a GTHO against a torana for braking ability, thats like comparing a Ferrari against a go cart racing on a go cart track, now it would be interesting to put them on a track like the Nuremberg Ring to see what to out come would be

[CraigE]

Sorry but the Sierras had to resort to cheating to even win. Well known and doccumented facts. Then the Nissans were not production or even close to production cars. At the time the average Holden touring car was $250,000 with spares and the Nissan was close to $1million. I loved the days of mixed racing with all makes but the Ford Sierra and Nissan "Godzilla" Skyline destroyed that.

The hostility of the fans caused the Sierras and Nissans to be declared ineligible. The race then was for production cars, in price classes, supposedly on sale at retail in Australia and 200 identical examples had to have been available for retail sale. The Sierras were factory prepared thinly disguised pure racing cars, & the Nissans not quite that. Neither could remotely be considered to be available for retail sale in Australia. CAMS at the time had visions of grandeur, looking enviously at the European Touring Car Championship and the US TransAm series and were trying to get high class international entrants, so they permitted entries that did not meet the regulations, which the fans realised and booed loudly.

[CraigE]

Beg your pardon the LH and LX Toranas were Australian designed, even down to the motor, get your facts right and check the history. The HB and LJ were based on an Opel / Vauxhall variant. There is not a decent Ford ever produced that has not been based on a US or Mexican variant.
I am glad you said fastest 4 door cause the E49 was quicker but is a 2 door.

Did you come to this incredulous conclusion because you OWNED a GTHO or are you just passing on the crap that most holden fans make up as they go, I owned a XY GT (not HO) and it was the quickest off the factory floor 4 door car in the world at that time, around corners too, back in 1971 there was nothing on the street that would even go close to the GT. For all those Holden Fans out there that believe Holdens were designed in Australia, think again, Opel, Vauxhall and Pontiac are the basis of Australia's own, the only way holden could beat Ford was to import a Vauxhall from England (Torana) and stuff a Big 6 and a V8 into a small 4cyl. car weighing half as much and go racing, when Ford countered by bringing in the Ford Sierras all the holden fans chucked a Tizzy because they didn't like watching their Vauxhalls (Toranas) get their a*$e kicked. I dont mind competition between Ford and Holden (GMC Chevrolet), but lets call a spade a spade and have no more rubbish about Holden being Australia's own, Ford have never claimed to be Australia's own and all Ford Falcons since 1971 have been designed and engineered by Australians in Australia and you can thank Ford Australia for the UTE, first designed and engineered by an Australian in Australia and built by Ford Australia, Regards Frank.

[master chief]

Hello all,i have one thing to say.GO THE FORDS!.:D

[CraigE]

Jeremy did drive a Monaro a little while back and his review was full of praise comparing costs to similar powered Eurotrash cars. BMWs and Mercs are no better than Furd or Holden and are just a standard car in Germany. Have to say tosing up to buy a BMW or Statesman the Stato was much better value for money.:p
Did like the XR6 Turbo package though, first thing Furd have got right in a long time but not their V8.:o

Holden :lol2: they say its better than a BMW :Rolling::Rolling:
Ford well i wouldn’t own one but at least they done make a ridiculous statement like above.

I hope Jeremy Clarkson comes out and test drives the crumbledoor to ridicule it like he does the yanks cars
and show it for what it really is.

[CraigE]

Are you Sweedish, Did you say go the Fjords???:D

Hello all,i have one thing to say.GO THE FORDS!.:D

[tombraider]

Beg your pardon the LH and LX Toranas were Australian designed, even down to the motor, get your facts right and check the history. The HB and LJ were based on an Opel / Vauxhall variant. There is not a decent Ford ever produced that has not been based on a US or Mexican variant.
I am glad you said fastest 4 door cause the E49 was quicker but is a 2 door.

Correct, and by FORDs own admission would have won Bathurst if it had not been for FORD getting Ferodo to make a special compound pad for its brakes and then FORGETTING to tell the others it was available (back then technology had to be available to everyone)...

Fords management went to great lengths to ensure it wasnt disclosed prior to the race or the Charger would have kicked its ar$e.

On a different note, I've had the Holdens and the Fords...

I've been a CAMS official and worked at Bathurst...

Let me just say, the only part of the car that is the brand is the cabin....... And sort of, the engine...

Nothing else is either brands.....

Also, its a well known fact the GTHO engines were tuned well beyond the regulations...... And when revved hard often cracked the front of the block...

[tombraider]

Did like the XR6 Turbo package though, first thing Furd have got right in a long time but not their V8.:o

Nope... Now its alright...

The BA and early BFs are reknown for going "pop"

[sclarke]

Bring back the Super Tourers........

Lets watch the Real cars flog it out....
Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Alfaromeo, Ford, Vauxhaul ect.....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Bring back the Super Tourers........

Lets watch the Real cars flog it out....
Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Alfaromeo, Ford, Vauxhaul ect.....

we might be able to buy one of those----



the rest is HQ and Gemini racing

[sclarke]

Ohhhhh
Forgot....

Mate of mine worked for Harry Firth in the 60's and 70's

That bloke can tell you the REAL Story behind racing....

[Fusion]

Are you serious ???? Who wants to listen to a heap of rice burners run around . Everyone loves the supercars because they are V8's .Everyone loves the roar of a 5ltr cracked open not the sound of a 4cyl that sounds like a cat howling into a microphone .

[EchiDna]

Are you serious ???? Who wants to listen to a heap of rice burners run around . Everyone loves the supercars because they are V8's .Everyone loves the roar of a 5ltr cracked open not the sound of a 4cyl that sounds like a cat howling into a microphone .

Which of:
Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Alfaromeo, Ford, Vauxhaul ect..... is a rice burner?

since when?
Definition of riceburner :.

(rīs-bûrn'ər)

1. (n.) Cars that are made to appear fast but are actually slow. Often describing small foreign cars that people have spruced up in an effort to be laughed at by everyone they pass on the main streets of cities.
Origins: From rice, a derogatory term for anything of Asian origin, and burner, combined with rice to resemble a form of vehicle fuel conversion like gas-guzzler.
Submitted by: Anonymous, Topics: Automotive & Mechanics (http://www.unwords.com/topic/30/0.html), Insults & Disrespect (http://www.unwords.com/topic/24/0.html), Travel (http://www.unwords.com/topic/7/0.html)
2. (n.) A vehicle, often a motorcycle, manufactured in Asia. These vehicles are often misrepresented as inferior or underpowered, but in reality often have great performance and quality — especially motorcycles. Not always the case in sedans, as many owners don't actually know how to boost their horsepower.

http://www.unwords.com/unword/riceburner.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_burner

[Pedro_The_Swift]

First off,,
not everyone loves the V8's (and this from me!)

some people like motor racing because its SUPPOSED to improve the breed.

Australian V8 racing does nothing for the future of cars.

[Tank]

Beg your pardon the LH and LX Toranas were Australian designed, even down to the motor, get your facts right and check the history. The HB and LJ were based on an Opel / Vauxhall variant. There is not a decent Ford ever produced that has not been based on a US or Mexican variant.
I am glad you said fastest 4 door cause the E49 was quicker but is a 2 door.
Did you own either, are you speaking from experience or just what you have heard, how's about a list of the Fords based on USA or Mexican models, at least Ford had a Design studio in Australia staffed by Australians, so holden Australia designed the Vauxhalls and Opels running around in Europe and UK, good one, Regards Frank.

[Bigbjorn]

Ohhhhh
Forgot....

Mate of mine worked for Harry Firth in the 60's and 70's

That bloke can tell you the REAL Story behind racing....


Matt Philip perhaps?

[Bigbjorn]

Anyone who thought Falcons were designed in Australia needs to have a look at the shapes Ford made & sold overseas to see where the Falcons originated.

[Tank]

Sorry but the Sierras had to resort to cheating to even win. Well known and doccumented facts. Then the Nissans were not production or even close to production cars. At the time the average Holden touring car was $250,000 with spares and the Nissan was close to $1million. I loved the days of mixed racing with all makes but the Ford Sierra and Nissan "Godzilla" Skyline destroyed that.
Do you honestly believe that the only cars that were bog stock showroom cars were holdens, best joke I ever heard, Regards Frank.

[Slunnie]

Are you serious ???? Who wants to listen to a heap of rice burners run around . Everyone loves the supercars because they are V8's .Everyone loves the roar of a 5ltr cracked open not the sound of a 4cyl that sounds like a cat howling into a microphone .
The rice burners are better racing than the V8's in my opinion especially with the ol BTCC regulations - thats watching racing for the sake of real racing. The V8's are a glorious sound though and there is no way that you can discount that, but there are better spectacles - such as HQ's in the wet, or Gemini's in the dry! :D

[Fusion]

Ok maybe not rice burners :D got a lil excited :wasntme: But i still stand by that most race fans prefer the sound of a V8 over a 4cyl ..... probably the best example of this is speedway . You watch people flock to the sprintcar meetings and suck in the power and the noise but as soon as the support class come out ( normally sedans or Juniors ) it's time for a feed or a trip to the dunny so they dont miss any V8 action ... :D

[MarknDeb]

Bring back the Super Tourers........

Lets watch the Real cars flog it out....
Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Alfaromeo, Ford, Vauxhaul ect.....

HERE HERE, then we can watch a real race instead of the same cars time after time win

[MarknDeb]

When you look at the power specs today for even a Euro deisel it is amazing, even the BMW deisel that won the 24 endurance race a few years back, it flogged all the petrols by a couple of laps. Wouldnt it be funny if they let a Euro deisel into Bathurst and it won, g wouldnt there be an out cry then :angry::rulez::banban::rulez::nazibanned: we cant have these cars they make ours look bad:wasntme::angel:

[Bazz67]

:TakeABow::arms:
All this talk is just irrelevent.

We all know Craig Lowndes is the best touring car driver around and that he now with the right/best manufacturer. :twisted:

No argument here, but ne needs to go back to Holden

[CraigE]

I have owned all sorts, but driven most road versions and have most of the history books on Holdens, Fords and Valiants. We grew up withmost of the cars that are rare now in the early 80's. Days when GTs were not that expensive. The GT Falcons were a cross breed of the Mustang and the North American Ford Falcon. Actually all the bodies for the XR Falcons came directly from the US. Ford Australia in those days had a large contingent of Americans working here. The head of Ford at the time was also an American and had a 2 door GT built. I am by no means condeming the early Falcons etc but they were by no means original. Look at the US Ford inventory and you will see lots of similarities from the XM right through to the XC. Some of the variants not well known and not as refined as the GTs but definately their forebearer.
Can not say I have seen anything that resembles the forebearer of a Holden Monaro or LH LX Torana (but may be wrong). The only thing close would be a Chevy Nova, but when you put them side by side they have little resemblance.
Neither of these brands is totally Aussie and never will be but Holden have had much more genuine local input than Ford ever has.
My grandfather used to work for Holden Motor Body Builders in Adelaide in the 40,s and 50,s when they were practically hand made.

Did you own either, are you speaking from experience or just what you have heard, how's about a list of the Fords based on USA or Mexican models, at least Ford had a Design studio in Australia staffed by Australians, so holden Australia designed the Vauxhalls and Opels running around in Europe and UK, good one, Regards Frank.

[CraigE]

No I do not believe that, but in those days at least they resembled one. The late model Nissans and Sierras were not even close. At least the GTHO, GTS, A9X, L34s, Brock Commodores etc were close to what you could get out of the showroom. And exactly that happened many race drivers in those days bought cars off the showroom floor and went racing.
A friend of mine actually imported a UK Sierra Cosworth some years ago with the belief and information it was similar to the race versions in Australia. What a croc, the thing was a POS.

Do you honestly believe that the only cars that were bog stock showroom cars were holdens, best joke I ever heard, Regards Frank.

[CraigE]

love it and very true. LOL.
Same as little 202 Torana beating the mighty XYGTHO.
Ford supporters will come up with every excuse as to why though. That was a real David and Goliath battle.
Cubes do not count for everything, but they are damn nice to have.

And yet again ford fans forget about the A9X winning by six laps and busting the lap record on the last lap . Can't say i've seen or heard of a ford doing that ?????:o

[CraigE]

FAOFLOL. That is gold and most Ford supporters wont acknowledge that history lesson.
:D:p:p:D

Ah, yes. The "Mighty Falcon GT" myth. Won at Bathurst in 67 with 289 cubes against 1275cc minis. Lost in 68 to Holden GTS 327's. Lost in 1969 to Holden GTS 350's. In fact I seem to recall the GTS 350's filled 7 of the first 10 places that year. won in 70 & 71 with 351 cubes against 186 Toranas. Lost again in 72 with 351 cubes against 202 Toranas. Looks like they could win only against cars with engines half the size or less of the Falcon's, and even then, not all the time.

[numpty]

Ho Hum. It seems as though we've got caught in a Toymota/Nitsin discussion.;)

[scrambler]

More like the old Protestant/Catholic divide - it all depends whether your father was a Ford driver or a Holden driver. My brother is a Ford man through-and-through because of the cars Dad owned when he was a little tyke. Funny thing is Dad has owned more Holdens then Fords, and given an unlimited budget would probably have a Fiat in preference to either (due to the front engined Fiat 500 that was his first car).

[Outback 1]

having owned holdens ,valiants & fords currently a ba futura {which so far has been brilliant:D} you cant go past fords for reliability. i used to work in a wrecking yard and 98% of fords still had engines in them as against o for holden

[Outback 1]

and why is it that the most valuable aussie muscle car is the xygtho the monaro's toranas commodores & valiants dont even get close ?

[BigJon]

i used to work in a wrecking yard and 98% of fords still had engines in them as against o for holden

But funnily enough, in my time as a mechanic I have done more head gaskets on Falcon 6 cylinders (EA - EL) than every other make and model combined!

[blitz]

My problem with the supercar series is that it is just holden and ford (note which I put first :D)

i thought it was great in the 70s because all sorts got out there and boogied now its one or the other. bit like Labour or Liberal winning politics boring

Blythe

[Outback 1]

But funnily enough, in my time as a mechanic I have done more head gaskets on Falcon 6 cylinders (EA - EL) than every other make and model combined!

ah the good old alloy heads:D

[Outback 1]

My problem with the supercar series is that it is just holden and ford (note which I put first :D)

i thought it was great in the 70s because all sorts got out there and boogied now its one or the other. bit like Labour or Liberal winning politics boring

Blythe

i agree the early days of sandown & bathurst with minis toyotas mazdas and the myriad of cars which the big 6s & v8s had to skillfully manouvre around was far more exciting than todays sterilised supercars

[barryj]

My problem with the supercar series is that it is just holden and ford (note which I put first :D)

i thought it was great in the 70s because all sorts got out there and boogied now its one or the other. bit like Labour or Liberal winning politics boring

Blythe

So true. I have lost interest in racing since they ran the two Bathurst races. I don't know the difference between a touring car and a supercar, and that's why I don't follow as closely as I did.

Mix up several makes, Jap, European, Yanks (Fords and Holdens) and it would get interesting again.

What about the year the Volvo went at Bathurst? And won the 1986 Australian Touring Car Championship!

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/240T_GpA_racing.htm

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/270.jpg

They quickly changed the rules after that!

[Bigbjorn]

Unfortunately V8 Super Cars are professional entertainment, not true racing for the sake of competition between enthusiasts. It is a travelling circus, in thrall to the television dollar, like our two major and two minor football codes. The cars are virtually identical except for minor mechanical details, badges, and colours.

CAMS has a lot to answer for as over fifty years CAMS has destroyed motor racing. They have added layers of bureaucracy, expense, and stupid regulation to what should be a widespread sport with club racing booming. What do we have now? Super Cars, boring Formula Ford, Formula Vee which is watched by doting parents, girlfriends and wives, much like club level Rugby Union, Geminis and HQ's. Not much else has survived. An entry level "specials" class of front engine open wheelers using readily available components, and amateur built would be a good start to kick club level racing along. A clean sweep of stupid regulation that only adds expense would be needed. Better still, meetings organised completely without CAMS.

[Fusion]

I love the V8's but it would also be good to see a couple of other brands running around with them . Why not run the new dodge charger and i see toyota is running a nascar wahy not make a V8 supercar ....... as long as it's rear wheel drive and has a 5ltr engine let it run with the series :D

[CraigE]

Some American Fords. See any similarities??
There are others including from Europe, but would have to dig a bit harder.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/232.jpg
XL, XM, XP similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/233.jpg
XR, XT Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/234.jpg
XW, XY Similarities
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/235.jpg
XA, XB, XC Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/236.jpg
BA Similarities.

[Outback 1]

I love the V8's but it would also be good to see a couple of other brands running around with them . Why not run the new dodge charger and i see toyota is running a nascar wahy not make a V8 supercar ....... as long as it's rear wheel drive and has a 5ltr engine let it run with the series :D

but that would still be sterilised v8 racing! i say bring back stock manufacturers racing the cars you buy at the dealers !

[Outback 1]

Some American Fords. See any similarities??
There are others including from Europe, but would have to dig a bit harder.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/232.jpg
XL, XM, XP similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/233.jpg
XR, XT Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/234.jpg
XW, XY Similarities
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/235.jpg
XA, XB, XC Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/236.jpg
BA Similarities.

but you must remember that when the 1967 xr was released it was advertised as being mustang bred ,the rest just followed from there:D

[Outback 1]

the biggest problem is that the v8s are in the hands of avesco {tony cochrane }and they are trying to make corporate big money out of it just like formula 1!

[Fusion]

I cant ever see that happening because there would be more cheating going on than what there is now . At least this way they have some sort of control on whats going on. :D

[Outback 1]

I cant ever see that happening because there would be more cheating going on than what there is now . At least this way they have some sort of control on whats going on. :D

as i said its money driven now e.g.there used to be privateers {like johnson}it costs so much the poor old battlers not only can't afford to try ,but have no hope of complying {financially} with the new system!

[Fusion]

Isn't there the support V8's is it Konica series . Theres a few privateers in there and if good enough would get picked up by one of the top runners ? But as you say to much money involved . As to say that though it doesn't matter what motor sport it is it is going to cost a $h1t load of cash . I raced speedway for a few years in a openwheeled wingless sprintcar running a V6 engine ( Open Sportsman ) and in the last 2 seasons of racing i spent close to $36,000 in just 20 meetings . And they said it was the cheapest form of speedway ...yeah ok ????

[Outback 1]

as i said mate its all money driven , i regularly buy australian muscle car {its a good read}it relates to all the race stuff going on when i was a kid ,and there is no way they could get away with what used to go on then.

[HSVRangie]

ah well see what happens on the week end.

Going as guest of Orrcon Racing.

pit visits ect.

always a top day.
M

[BigJon]

ah the good old alloy heads:D

Yet pre OHC alloy heads don't give much trouble. AU onwards seem OK too, but they use different part number head bolts (EF, EL ones used to snap, unloading the gasket).

[Bigbjorn]

When my '97 XH developed a leak, the engine reconditioner said it was because Ford use "cheap **** gaskets". The head was skimmed, pressure tested, and inspected for corrosion. He said I was lucky as obviously the cooling sytem services had been done, flushed and inhibitor changed regularly, and there were no signs of corrosion. He said these heads regularly corroded badly between 5 & 6, which he claims was a design fault which Ford was well aware of and ignored.

[numpty]

More like the old Protestant/Catholic divide - it all depends whether your father was a Ford driver or a Holden driver. My brother is a Ford man through-and-through because of the cars Dad owned when he was a little tyke. Funny thing is Dad has owned more Holdens then Fords, and given an unlimited budget would probably have a Fiat in preference to either (due to the front engined Fiat 500 that was his first car).

My father never had either. His first was a Mayflower and then 2 Vanguards before a Fiat 1500, which got me into the Fiat bug (had 4 of them).
Was the 500 a special, as all the Bambino's I've seen were rear engined.

[googe]

Im an old fiat fan numpty i had a 124 with the 2 litre twin webbers 50mm throttes dam it used to go hard id get about 220kmh out of it was one of my fav cars so much fun racing little jap crap lol :)

Greg

[scrambler]

My father never had either. His first was a Mayflower and then 2 Vanguards before a Fiat 1500, which got me into the Fiat bug (had 4 of them).
Was the 500 a special, as all the Bambino's I've seen were rear engined.
I'll check with him, but I believe it was this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Topolino

EDIT: scrolled further down the page and had a good look - it was the restyled version

[Bigbjorn]

My father never had either. His first was a Mayflower and then 2 Vanguards before a Fiat 1500, which got me into the Fiat bug (had 4 of them).
Was the 500 a special, as all the Bambino's I've seen were rear engined.

The rear engine ones were the late models. The original Topolino was front engined.

[rovercare]

When my '97 XH developed a leak, the engine reconditioner said it was because Ford use "cheap **** gaskets". The head was skimmed, pressure tested, and inspected for corrosion. He said I was lucky as obviously the cooling sytem services had been done, flushed and inhibitor changed regularly, and there were no signs of corrosion. He said these heads regularly corroded badly between 5 & 6, which he claims was a design fault which Ford was well aware of and ignored.

On the 4l the head bolts would stretch, blown head gasket usually at about 100-150k

[garryc]

Had two Falcon's, would never buy another Furd product, esp. as they made the inflammable Pinto and rollover Exploder. Bring back the 2 litre class I say and we can watch the cars that everyone drives these days,and they are faster around all tracks than the V8's:p

[barryj]

I'm tiring of this thread :zzz:.

So here goes nothing, the title says Holden v's Ford.

This means that Fords rule and Holdens challenge :twisted:.

I'm off to duck for cover :rocket:.

[googe]

Have any of you seen the old cars race at Lakeside Raceway in Queensland i think the class was called Appendix "J",pre 1972 vehicles only i think it was,lots of mustangs,lotus cortina's,fiats,chev's,eh holens and the like,i used to go to it with my dad years ago it was brilliant :) not sure if they still have it?
Cheers Greg

[barryj]

Have any of you seen the old cars race at Lakeside Raceway in Queensland i think the class was called Appendix "J",pre 1972 vehicles only i think it was,lots of mustangs,lotus cortina's,fiats,chev's,eh holens and the like,i used to go to it with my dad years ago it was brilliant :) not sure if they still have it?
Cheers Greg


Have a look at this re Lakeside Raceway;

http://www.prsc.qld.gov.au/c/prsc?a=da&did=1070075&pid=1159320011

And appendix J;

http://www.appendixj.org.au/home.htm

[landyfromanuthaland]

owned over 20 fords, always found them to be ok, had two valiants always found them to be rusty, had to 82 model cherokees always found them to be **** boxes but good for towing
only ever owned 1 holden and that was a HR, ok nothing to scream about but it was an old car and rusty lol, who cares anyway, a car is a car, a Landy is a priveledge to own

[barryj]

Have a look at this re Lakeside Raceway;

http://www.prsc.qld.gov.au/c/prsc?a=da&did=1070075&pid=1159320011

And appendix J;

http://www.appendixj.org.au/home.htm

A quick update on appendix j. My son in law is into racing and told me that group n has replaced appendix j.

http://www.cams.com.au/content.asp?PageID=Historics&ObjectID=218

[Outback 1]

I'm tiring of this thread :zzz:.

So here goes nothing, the title says Holden v's Ford.

This means that Fords rule and Holdens challenge :twisted:.

I'm off to duck for cover :rocket:.

i'm with you:D fords fill front row at sandown today:D:rulez::twobeers::tease:

[JohnE]

Some American Fords. See any similarities??
There are others including from Europe, but would have to dig a bit harder.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/232.jpg
XL, XM, XP similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/233.jpg
XR, XT Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/234.jpg
XW, XY Similarities
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/235.jpg
XA, XB, XC Similarities.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/236.jpg
BA Similarities.


The best one i can tell about, because the photo is on a slide , is the 1978 Vauxhaull Cavalier, hired one when i was in the UK then, , in 1979, the first crummydore came out, guess what it was a vauxhaull cavalier, with a different motor and crappier trim.


john

[CraigE]

I believe there was also an Opel variant as well. Realistically for what was around at the time they were a good car. A heap better than the XD. But not as good as the old Kingswood :D
Very few things are original.

The best one i can tell about, because the photo is on a slide , is the 1978 Vauxhaull Cavalier, hired one when i was in the UK then, , in 1979, the first crummydore came out, guess what it was a vauxhaull cavalier, with a different motor and crappier trim.


john

[Outback 1]

wasn't the commodore based on the opel;)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

i'm with you:D fords fill front row at sandown today:D:rulez::twobeers::tease:

Huh? Don't you understand that if that's the case, and it happens a few times one of the two investors in the category will ask for the Fords to be handicapped some so that they can win for a while?

Enjoy supercars for the racing, but it's no guide to which car is better than the other. I remember a tour of Dick Johnsons workshop. They get body shells in bare metal, and then spend 650 hours modifying them before they start putting the bits in and painting them up.

These teams could make a v8 supercar out of virtually anything. It would take them a bit longer the first time but it probably wouldn't slow them up too much. How about a V8supercar camry, magna, maxima, or whatever.

[Fusion]

In an enduro starting on the front row means nothing .It's who crosses the finish line first ....been proven many times that the front row means squat :D

[rangieman]

wasn't the commodore based on the opel;)
Yep all of the commodore models were a copy of a opel ,thats how good holdens engineers are they have to copy other cars:p
Not to mention holdens diffs which are no stronger than a disco diff , and dont mention there gear box,s
For all you holden buffs maybe not the younger ones remember the A9X at bathurst , ford 9" diff , ford toploader gearbox:p

[barryj]

I have some great news for Ford followers;










Ford wins at Sandown Raceway!

[barryj]

I have some great news for Ford followers;










Ford wins at Sandown Raceway!



Just in case you missed it;









Ford wins at Sandown Raceway!

[noddy]

Give me a the old Group A anyday.

I have lost almost all interest in Australian touring car racing since they banned Godzilla.

It was great wacthing V12 Jags, Volvo 240Ts, Commodores, Mustangs, BMW 635s.

Unfortunately, IMHO the V8 Super Car series is catering for the lowest common denominator:mad:

[Redback]

Yep all of the commodore models were a copy of a opel ,thats how good holdens engineers are they have to copy other cars:p
Not to mention holdens diffs which are no stronger than a disco diff , and dont mention there gear box,s
For all you holden buffs maybe not the younger ones remember the A9X at bathurst , ford 9" diff , ford toploader gearbox:p

I think you'll find that it's the other way around, from the 68 HK (FIRST ALL AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED HOLDEN) to the current model, were all designed here in Australia, with the 253 V8 and then followed by the 308 in later models, the variants were exported to England, South Africa and rebadged as Vauxalls and Aust spec models went to NZ and Asia, as a swap we got Vauxalls or Holden Toranas/Sunbirds, then we got the Chev variant the Gemini then the Astra, Badge cars they call them now.

Baz.

[rangieman]

I think you'll find that it's the other way around, from the 68 HK (FIRST ALL AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED HOLDEN) to the current model, were all designed here in Australia, with the 253 V8 and then followed by the 308 in later models, the variants were exported to England, South Africa and rebadged as Vauxalls and Aust spec models went to NZ and Asia, as a swap we got Vauxalls or Holden Toranas/Sunbirds, then we got the Chev variant the Gemini then the Astra, Badge cars they call them now.

Baz.
I said commodore and thats almost 30 years of opel now :p

[Redback]

I said commodore and thats almost 30 years of opel now :p

:Rolling::Rolling:sorry

Baz.

[rangieman]

:Rolling::Rolling:sorry

Baz.

;):D

[Ace]

And yet again ford fans forget about the A9X winning by six laps and busting the lap record on the last lap . Can't say i've seen or heard of a ford doing that ?????:o

and the Jags who finished first and 3rd when the lead car holed a radiator and spent 12 mins in the pits and still finished on the podium, now the XJS, that was a car.

[Ace]

Sorry but the Sierras had to resort to cheating to even win. Well known and doccumented facts. Then the Nissans were not production or even close to production cars. At the time the average Holden touring car was $250,000 with spares and the Nissan was close to $1million. I loved the days of mixed racing with all makes but the Ford Sierra and Nissan "Godzilla" Skyline destroyed that.

the sierras only cheated once and that was only one team, so thats not really a fair comment. It was only the ANZ Sierras that used the lighter flywheel.

and lets not forget the year that Skaife and Richo won with the car smashed in a heap at forrest elbow, fortunately for them the race was declared and the results were taken on the previous lap

[googe]

my brother used to have a td cortina v6 it was from africa they did factory v6 cordies there same motor as the capri,they also did the capri with the 289 in africa,he sold that cortina about 10 years ago for $15,000 so they would be worth a bit now i recon :)

Cheers Greg

[Ace]

I dont care who won Sandown, well the brand anyway, Lowndes won and i am happy, Jamie Wincup is going to be a true champion, and I reckon Lee Holdsworth is aswell.

I used to be all holden, then i bought a Disco and sold my commodore, and Russell Ingall moved to Ford so i followed him with no real care about what badge was on the car. Now if i was going to buy a family car i would test drive everything and buy what i liked best, i would have to say that the Mitsubishi 380 VXR is one nice car. Matt

[Tank]

The best one i can tell about, because the photo is on a slide , is the 1978 Vauxhaull Cavalier, hired one when i was in the UK then, , in 1979, the first crummydore came out, guess what it was a vauxhaull cavalier, with a different motor and crappier trim.


john
You certainly have a vivid imagination, from the XA Ford on, the Falcon was designed wholly in Australia by Australians, where's your comparison to the EA to AU, not like holden which have always been desingned by Yanks, Krouts and Poms, t'is a FACT, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

I believe there was also an Opel variant as well. Realistically for what was around at the time they were a good car. A heap better than the XD. But not as good as the old Kingswood :D
Very few things are original.
Why didn't they (GM) race the HQ's, not the Kingswood, 4 door family sedan against the Ford 4 door family sedan, why, because they were crap, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

I think you'll find that it's the other way around, from the 68 HK (FIRST ALL AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED HOLDEN) to the current model, were all designed here in Australia, with the 253 V8 and then followed by the 308 in later models, the variants were exported to England, South Africa and rebadged as Vauxalls and Aust spec models went to NZ and Asia, as a swap we got Vauxalls or Holden Toranas/Sunbirds, then we got the Chev variant the Gemini then the Astra, Badge cars they call them now.

Baz.
The 68 holden was a Opel Rekord, designed in Chermany, all of the rest you have back to front, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Huh? Don't you understand that if that's the case, and it happens a few times one of the two investors in the category will ask for the Fords to be handicapped some so that they can win for a while?

Enjoy supercars for the racing, but it's no guide to which car is better than the other. I remember a tour of Dick Johnsons workshop. They get body shells in bare metal, and then spend 650 hours modifying them before they start putting the bits in and painting them up.

These teams could make a v8 supercar out of virtually anything. It would take them a bit longer the first time but it probably wouldn't slow them up too much. How about a V8supercar camry, magna, maxima, or whatever.
At least Ford uses Ford engines, not Chevrolet like Holden, Ford also use Ford Design Diff-Centres and so does Holden, Regards Frank.

[scrambler]

At least Ford uses Ford engines, not Chevrolet like Holden, Ford also use Ford Design Diff-Centres and so does Holden, Regards Frank.
wtf? Dont they BOTH use USA-produced engines made by their parent companies?

[Ace]

wtf? Dont they BOTH use USA-produced engines made by their parent companies?

In V8's as far as i know the Holden engine is designed by Holden Motorsport in Australia and the majority of ford engines are made by SBR.

In the road going cars Holden switched to Chev with the late model VT's when they started using the 5.7L LS1, now the 6.0L LS2. Ford used the 5.4L engine in the pursuit utes and the TE model AU's, and now in the BA-BF series 8's which is called the Triton V8 and yes its from the US.

[mcrover]

I know of at least 1 350 chev powered HQ 4 door that raced at bathurst in the 70's, I'll have to do some research to find who it was but I have seen it on my mates dads home movies of his visits to bathurst.

I have also seen an XD falcon with a 2 litre twin cam turbo engine similar to that of a sierra here in oz that was an import buy a guy named Steve in the ford 4 club and once landed he rebadged it as a falcon for a laugh as it went quicker than a 351 V8 XD.

Ive owned a TD Cortina with a 302 windsor in it with a K frame out of a Capri V8 which was called a Boss Capri in the USA and the K frame was worth literally twice as much as the car back in the early 90's.

Also Go Lowndesy, theres no doubt he is the best driver in the series regardless of what brand he is driving.

[rovercare]

In V8's as far as i know the Holden engine is designed by Holden Motorsport in Australia and the majority of ford engines are made by SBR.

In the road going cars Holden switched to Chev with the late model VT's when they started using the 5.7L LS1, now the 6.0L LS2. Ford used the 5.4L engine in the pursuit utes and the TE model AU's, and now in the BA-BF series 8's which is called the Triton V8 and yes its from the US.


The "T series" falsons ran either a 5l windsor or 5.6l stroked windsor, TE50 and TS50, i can't remember which had which:angel:

And the only V8 that was ever remotely australian are the dirty old 253's and 308's, everything FoMoCo was from the states

[mcrover]

At least Ford uses Ford engines, not Chevrolet like Holden, Ford also use Ford Design Diff-Centres and so does Holden, Regards Frank.

As far as the V8 Supercars go, im pretty sure that the final drives in both cars are built by Harrops and Im pretty sure they both use the same or similar Hollinger boxes.

The HMS 5.7 engine is a chev desighn but built from scratch here in OZ but I think at least some of the Ford blocks are sorced from the US.

[googe]

i allways thought that holden aus build only up to 5 litre and above that was from the states ?btw im a ford fan :p holden stole the 9inch and the 351 was designed off the 350 bottom end :)
Cheers Greg

[rovercare]

At least Ford uses Ford engines, not Chevrolet like Holden, Ford also use Ford Design Diff-Centres and so does Holden, Regards Frank.

Where does the windsor and cleveland engine family's come from, not australia;)

The use of the 9" diff always amuses me, the fact it has a 9" crownwheel and 3 pinion bearing is where all the similarities end, everything else is made by machine shops and completely different to what ford produced in touring cars and custom applications, stock 9"s are weak as ****, break the cruddy cast carriers with any abuse:mad:

[rovercare]

i allways thought that holden aus build only up to 5 litre and above that was from the states ?btw im a ford fan :p holden stole the 9inch and the 351 was designed off the 350 bottom end :)
Cheers Greg

I fail to see how "the 351" is based on a 350

1. Windsor or cleveland, 2 different engines

2. Cleveland.. 302 and 351 use the SAME engine block, just different crank and rods

3. Windsor.. 302 and 351 are ALMOST the same, just larger deck height to accomodate for the longer stroke

[rovercare]

I know very little about touring cars, as they don't represent a brand, just a team and a buget.....nothing more:(

But I do know about dirty old fords and holdens and am amazed at some the "information" that comes out:angel:

[googe]

The 9" has a good base with plenty to play with thats why there a chosen as a stable for many street car or racer,im just saying its ford ! hehe

[mcrover]

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?

[rovercare]

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?

No, buy ford

[googe]

My stepfather did his apprentaship through ford in the late 60's and he always told me the 351 was based off the 350 block thats about all i know :) ill question him more when i see him :)
Cheers Greg

[rangieman]

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?
:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing::Rolling:
Your so funny damo:cool:

[googe]

ive allways wonted to put a boss 351 in an xy,keep it nice and standard on the outside,my dream car :)
Greg

[Redback]

The 68 holden was a Opel Rekord, designed in Chermany, all of the rest you have back to front, Regards Frank.

Oldsmobile Tornado
http://www.holden.com.au///images/monaro/monaro_history/hk/02.gif
HK Monaro
http://www.holden.com.au///images/monaro/monaro_history/hk/03.jpg

It boasted potent performance and looked every inch the part with its long, wide body, flared wheel arches and sweeping roofline (modelled on the Oldsmobile Tornado).

In GTS form, the Monaro sported black rally stripes, unique wheel trims, paint finishes and a tail panel strip that replicated a full-width tail light.


When British migrant James Alexander Holden arrived in Adelaide in 1852, he set about establishing a business as a leather worker and saddle-maker. In 1872 he set up a partnership with Birks, only to have it disolved 3 years later.

Following that ill-fated partnership, Holden decided to bring his son into the business in 1879, and then allowed Henry Frost to join as Junior Partner in 1885; Adolf Frost was well respected carriage builder, and the company was soon to become "Holden and Frost".

In 1910 Holden & Frost began trimming motor vehicles and in 1914 they built their first one off car body for an imported Lancia chassis. Larger contracts followed but ironically the first major contract was for Dodge bodies (a later competitor).

By 1917 the Australian government had placed an import embargo on complete vehicles, the First World War having almost entirely involved Britain's industry, and German U Boat Captains were doing their best to ensure that very few cargo ships leaving North America reached their intended destination.

These conditions, combined with the need to save valuable cargo space, restricted imports to chassis and forced local vehicle agents to look to local firms to provide the bodies. In 1919 Edward Wheeldon Holden registered "Holden's Motor Body Builders" as a separate company specialising in car bodies.

At the time they built bodies for Overland, Chevrolet, Durant, Hupmobile and Dodge, and by 1923 they were producing over 12,000 bodies per year. In 1924 "Holden's Motor Body Builders" became the sole Australian body builder for General Motors vehicles and had an output of over 22,000 bodies (over 11,000 for GM) in 65 different body styles.

The famous "Lion and Stone" symbol was designed in 1928 by George Rayner Hoff, and represented the legend of man's invention of the wheel. It was subsequently fitted to all Holden bodies and, although undergoing minor changes over the years, remains to this day.

During the 'Great Depression' in 1930, production fell from 34,000 units per year to a mere 1651 and, in 1931, General Motors were able to buy the entire Holden's Motor Body Builders and merge it with their North American operation to form General Motors - Holdens.

This move was not entirely motivated by taking advantage of the company when it was at an all time low but was mainly occasioned by the Australian government freezing the currency so that money couldn't leave the country during the depression.

The money to pay GM in the United States for the previously imported chassis was trapped in Australia and so was used to finance the buy out which in part took the form of swapping the ordinary shares held by 1550 Australian shareholders in Holdens Motor Body Builders for 561,000 6% 1 pound preference shares (ie 6% of the value of their shares each year) in the new company.

This made the paid up capital of the new company 561,000 pounds Australian capital (37% of the total) and 965,800 pound U.S. capital (63% of the total).

In addition there was tension between the Australian operation and the United States with management in the United States complaining "Amazing people these Australians; they just won't do as they're told" (Inness Randolph head of General Motors Australia to Larry Hartnett in 1929) and a merger/takeover was also a way to solve this little problem.

In 1934 Larry Hartnett (later Sir Laurence Hartnett) was sent to Australia by GM as Managing Director of the Australian company with a directive to either make it profitable or close it down.

Fortunately Hartnett respected the resourceful nature of the Australian operation and stated "The economies achieved by Holden's at Woodville put them, in many ways, years ahead of the rest of the world in manufacturing techniques. The resourcefulness and initiative of the Australians in this industry is beyond praise."

By 1935 the world economy had strengthened and under the leadership of Larry Hartnett GM-H lifted production to 23,129 bodies and a profit of 650,000 pounds. The company also introduced the "Sloper" to the world which was the fore runner of the hatchback and led the rest of the world in producing the first all steel bodies.

In 1936 Larry Hartnett began planning the complete production of a "wholly Australian car", however another World War intervened, with the (Menzies) government of the time putting these plans on hold. After the war the Government asked for proposals from any local company for production of a complete car - and General Motors Holdens were the only company to reply.

On September 20, 1944 Sir Laurence Hartnett and Mr Jack Horn of General Motors - Holdens made a presentation entitled "Australia - GM's Performance and Results - Manufacture of Complete Motor-Cars in Australia" to the Executive Post War Planning Committee of General Motors in New York. This meeting gained approval in principal for GM-H to commence the process of designing and building an Australian car.

A major production which was rehearsed for 3 weeks in New York and involved 18 stenographers, 7 photographers and photographic reproduction men, 2 statisticians plus experts from GM finance, materials and manufacturing divisions all with the aim of convincing the committee of approving the project in principal, it was finally approved in November 1944.

But it almost did not eventuate, with the US deciding that it would not invest in Australia (despite making hefty profits from it's Australian operation) and only when the Commonwealth Bank came up with £2,500,000 pounds and the Bank of Adelaide came up with the balance of £500,000 pounds did the project finally get off the ground.

When the first Holden (designated the 48/215 (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_fx_48215.htm)) went on sale in 1948, the list price was the equivalent of $1330. To this the buyer had to add 'on road' charges including registration and insurance plus $136 in sales tax. Sales tax has played a big part in the price of Holdens through the years.

It has been as low as 10 per cent and as high as 40 per cent, and in 1990, a new high of 50 per cent was briefly imposed on the Caprice because it was priced above a 'luxury car' limit set by the federal government. Inflation too has played a big part.

When the VN Commodore (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_commodore_vn.htm) was launched in 1988 exactly four decades after the first Holden - it cost $20,014 including sales tax. That was nearly 14 times as expensive as a 1948 Holden, but by 1988 the average male wage had risen to $491.

Statistically speaking, that meant that a worker needed to complete 41 weeks on the job to buy a new VN. In 1948 the average male earned $15.60 and would have had to work around 94 weeks to pay the tax-inclusive price of a new Holden. It's not quite that simple, of course.

These wage figures are gross and the average worker now pays a higher percentage of income tax than in 1948. Then again, the average working week is now shorter and credit is easier to obtain, making car ownership more accessible to a greater number of people. Two-income households are also much more common. Even if the woman of 1948 was holding down a similar job to her husband, she would be getting around 25 per cent less money.

The VP Commodore (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_commodore_vp.htm) hit the market with the base sedan priced at $23,992 - an unimaginable figure by 1948 standards but highly competitive in 1991. Comparatively speaking, the Hoiden was never cheaper than in the early 19708, when an average wage-earner could buy a new Hoiden with just 25 weekly pay packets.

Through all the fluctuations, the cars themselves have become more sophisticated. If you compare the Holdens of the 1940s, '50s, '60s or '70s with today's models, an incredible amount of equipment is now standard that was then not even optional. As well as a plethora of luxury items, the modern Commodore has countless mechanical advantages and a higher standard of performance, handling and comfort. It is faster, quieter, more ergonomically efficient, smoother, roomier, better equipped, more robust, easier to drive and harder to steal.

Most importantly of all, today's car is considerably safer on two levels: keeping you out of an accident and protecting you if you are unfortunate enough to be in one. And although early Hoidens were considered advanced in their day, a car which required a service and oil change every 1600 kilometres just wouldn't sell today. Today, almost every generation X Australian would have owned or driven a Holden at some time and the company can rightfully claim to be 'Australia's Favourite Car'.

In fact, all but the Belmont was to inherit the "tail light strip styling" along the rear of the bootlid - after pressure from GM in the US.

The designers choose to increase the width of the mock tail lights in proportion to the status of the vehicle, and so it naturally increased in size depending on whether it was a Kingswood, Premier or Monaro.

Only the Monaro GTS had a full width strip, but unfortunately the Aussie sun was to quickly bleach away the red accents and reveal the fake tail light for what it was. Regardless, this was a far preferrable option to sticking with the Belmont's tail lights, that remained smaller than that of the insipid HB Torana of the time.

The standard Monaro was powered by a 3.05 litre 186 six-cylinder engine teamed with a column shift three-speed manual. Other engine choices included a higher-spec 186S six and an imported 5.0 litre 307 V8, matched with four-speed console mounted manual or two-speed Powerglide auto transmission. In fact, there were some 19 Monaro engine and transmission combinations, from the 161 2.6 litre right through to the awesome (for the time) 327 5.4 litre Chevrolet V8.

Although the car was destined to be a sales success, the Monaro also signalled to Ford the Generals clear intention that it would be a serious contender in production car racing - with the saying 'What wins on Sunday sells on Monday' being just as relevant in Australia as anywhere else in the world - perhaps even more so given the Aussie apetite for V8's.

It wasn't long before the racing Monaro made it's debut - and what a debut! - with a first race win by Tony Roberts and Bob Watson in a GTS 327 Monaro at the 1968 Sandown 3-hour enduro. That year, the Monaro caused a Ford blood bath at Mt. Panorama, sweeping all contenders aside with a 1-2-3 finish. First was the car of Bruce McPhee and Barry Mulholland (privateers), with Jim Palmer/Phil West coming second and Tony Roberts/Bob Watson coming in third place.

The Monaro had staked it's claim on the Mountain, but with Ford winning the year before (1967) it was billed as "The Decider" in 1969. The Monaro maintained it's winning form, when piloted to first position by Colin Bond and Tony Roberts. The GTHO of McPhee/Mulholland was always in close contention however, coming in 2nd place. And in third place was another Monaro, driven by Des West and a new up-coming driver, one Peter Brock, who had recently joined Harry Firths team.

The Ford verses Holden rivalry has never diminished.

[Bushie]

Well this thread got everyone going :o

I thought it was as simple as

Holden/Ford
Waeco/Engel
Canon/Nikon
Nissan/Toyota (well maybe not these)


Martyn - who owns a Waeco, a Pentax, drives a Defender and suffers a Toyota for work. :cool:

[Redback]

Well this thread got everyone going :o

I thought it was as simple as

Holden/Ford
Waeco/Engel
Canon/Nikon
Nissan/Toyota (well maybe not these)


Martyn - who owns a Waeco, a Pentax, drives a Defender and suffers a Toyota for work. :cool:

We have a Waeco, a Sony, a Disco, 2 Toyotas, a Honda Accord and 3 Yamahas:D

I don't like either, Holden or Ford, they are mediocre cars at best.

Baz.

[MrsMcRover]

I realise bit off topic here but.

GO CRAIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday was a brilliant race. All im gonna say 'bout Smolden. Murph you deserved that Black Flag :mad:

[CraigE]

Thanks mate, but what did I do????
:p
Ok I do like Lowndes, shame he drives a retards car.:o
CraigE

I realise bit off topic here but.

GO CRAIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday was a brilliant race. All im gonna say 'bout Smolden. Murph you deserved that Black Flag :mad:

[CraigE]

Wrong, Ford did not build the 9", they had some input on specs but the diffs were supplied to them by the same company that made Detroit Lockers. Ever wondered why a detroit locker will fit and is almost identical. Found this out when pulling down a mates F100 some years ago. Amazing what a bit of research will uncover. The original doccumentation even stated it was a 9". One of the ones that got through apparently that was not stamped as a Ford, supply issues for a while we believe.

No, buy ford

[Outback 1]

We have a Waeco, a Sony, a Disco, 2 Toyotas, a Honda Accord and 3 Yamahas:D

I don't like either, Holden or Ford, they are mediocre cars at best.

Baz.

firstly congratulation to ford & lowndes:D:rulez:,and secondly when was the last time you drove a late model ford!

[Fusion]

If holden is so mediocre why are they exporting them all over the world and all ford can do is paint them yellow and transport people to the airport ...OOPS!! did i say that out loud :angel:

[Outback 1]

If holden is so mediocre why are they exporting them all over the world and all ford can do is paint them yellow and transport people to the airport ...OOPS!! did i say that out loud :angel:

gee i wonder if the reason why taxi drivers like fords is because they are so much more reliable & comfortable than commodores!:wasntme::oops2:

[MrsMcRover]

gee i wonder if the reason why taxi drivers like fords is because they are so much more reliable & comfortable than commodores!:wasntme::oops2:

Darn Right you are there !!!! :D

[Fusion]

what a bunch of crap !!! I have owned a AU3 fairmont and now own a VY calais and the calais beats it hands down for handling and comfort AND i get better fuel economy out of the 5.7L to the fords 4l sludge bucket 6cyl ..... and the only reason i had bought the AU was because of the price . Now i know what they mean when they say " you get what you pay for " Hence buying a real car not a ford money waster ;)

[Tank]

The "T series" falsons ran either a 5l windsor or 5.6l stroked windsor, TE50 and TS50, i can't remember which had which:angel:

And the only V8 that was ever remotely australian are the dirty old 253's and 308's, everything FoMoCo was from the states
The Ford Cleveland engine was built only in Australia from 1972, production of this engine 302/351 canted valve V8 were built at Geelong after production of this motor ceased in the USA in 1972, Australia built this engine up to the XE Falcon model, Regards Frank.

[googe]

Holden dont seem to make a decent 4x4 either 0o ^_^ just thought i'd add that :D

[Tank]

Where does the windsor and cleveland engine family's come from, not australia;)

The use of the 9" diff always amuses me, the fact it has a 9" crownwheel and 3 pinion bearing is where all the similarities end, everything else is made by machine shops and completely different to what ford produced in touring cars and custom applications, stock 9"s are weak as ****, break the cruddy cast carriers with any abuse:mad:
If the 9" Ford diffs are so P!$$ weak why dont they(Harrops) use the Holden/Chev 10 bolt diffs? 1 good reason, because Holden/chev never ever built anything worth copying, the 9" Ford diffs first appeared in 1958 and they have been the benchmark for strong reiable diffs ever since, FACT, Regards Frank.

[Redback]

firstly congratulation to ford & lowndes:D:rulez:,and secondly when was the last time you drove a late model ford!

Aaaah well i have owned about 5 or 6 Fords from my first one a 63 Falcon wagon to the last aust spec one a 98 EL wagon last model before the AU, this was one crap car, more off the road than on, we also have them at work and have driven them lots of times.

I've also owned lots of Holdens too, and like i said pretty ordinary cars.

Baz.

[Tank]

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?
NO, Regards Frank.

[googe]

yeh had the same experience with a mates XB panelvan,it was all factory standard with a detriot in it.

[barryj]

gee i wonder if the reason why taxi drivers like fords is because they are so much more reliable & comfortable than commodores!:wasntme::oops2:

Then again a second hand Ford is cheaper than a Holden.

[scrambler]

I have no opinion one one versus the other, but arguing over prices on a Land Rover forum is silly. What is better, a Disco 1 V8 or a 90 Series Prado? And which one costs more? Price is driven by supply and demand. For new car sales, Ford has traditionally had a large fleet sales component while the private market has tended to buy Holden. Once the ex-lease cars are sold off, there is a relative glut of older Fords in the second-hand private market. There are too many factors on why the fleet/private difference to argue anything about the actual value of either vehicle, IMHO.

What this thread shows, again IMHO, is that the V8 Supercars format and the marketting associated with it has worked well - we tend to favour one or the other, for whatever reason and probably none.

[BigJon]

, the 9" Ford diffs first appeared in 1958 and they have been the benchmark for strong reiable diffs ever since

Fair enough, but they are a TRUCK diff. The "Holden" 10 bolt salisbury is a much smaller final drive unit.

[BigJon]

What this thread shows, again IMHO, is that the V8 Supercars format and the marketting associated with it has worked well - we tend to favour one or the other, for whatever reason and probably none.

Or, like myself, you favour neither, don't watch it and couldn't care less who wins :D:p.

[Quiggers]

I'll have a Land Rover.

Which for a very brief point in time was a Ford brand:D

Next...

GQ

[Outback 1]

what a bunch of crap !!! I have owned a AU3 fairmont and now own a VY calais and the calais beats it hands down for handling and comfort AND i get better fuel economy out of the 5.7L to the fords 4l sludge bucket 6cyl ..... and the only reason i had bought the AU was because of the price . Now i know what they mean when they say " you get what you pay for " Hence buying a real car not a ford money waster ;)

but have you owned a ba :D different car altogether:D

[Tank]

Fair enough, but they are a TRUCK diff. The "Holden" 10 bolt salisbury is a much smaller final drive unit.
What are you talking about, the first 9" Ford Diffs were fitted to Fairlanes, then most Ford Passenger cars, incl. the Mustang, early model F series trucks and utes had a salisbury type diff, probably a Dana, it was only much later that Ford F100 and Broncos had 9" diffs fitted, even the F250's had Dana's, get your facts right, Regards Frank.

[BigJon]

I still contend that comparing a "Holden" salisbury diff to a "Ford" 9 inch diff isn't comparing apples to apples. The construction of the 9 inch is truck like (extra bearing to support pinion, sheer size) with the associated weight penalties.

[Bigbjorn]

but have you owned a ba :D different car altogether:D

Bloody well needed to be. I spent more $$$ towing my 1997 XH ute to the Ford dealership than I had spent in total on maintenance on my CM Valiant ute in 13 tears. The Ford was an unreliable uneconomic pile of puss. A long litany of electronic failures and electrical problems, head gasket failure, brake disc wear, fuel consumption, holes worn in seat squabs simply from getting in and out, all made me look for a simple non-electronic work horse, a Land Rover County-Isuzu.

The keen sales staff at the Ford dealer would 'phone me from time to time suggesting it was time for a new one. I always replied that I have had 2 Falcons, the first and the last.

[Fusion]

but have you owned a ba :D different car altogether:D

I think you might want to do abit of research on that . all they change on the BA from the AU was the head lights and tail lights . The rest of the car is the same. same shell and all parts bolt onto each model and the ford six is still a guzzler . And yes have driven one and have mates that own them and wish they didn't . I think the ford will be a better car with the V6 in it ;)

[Tank]

I still contend that comparing a "Holden" salisbury diff to a "Ford" 9 inch diff isn't comparing apples to apples. The construction of the 9 inch is truck like (extra bearing to support pinion, sheer size) with the associated weight penalties.
I was comparing the Chev/holden 10 bolt Salisbury type diff to the Ford 9", NOT the B/W salisbury Holden diff to the 9"'er. What about comparing the Muncie "Rock crusher" Chev g/box to the Ford Top Loader, Ford wins again.
Regards Frank.

[Quiggers]

We have an AU 99 sedan. It replaced an ED 94 wagon.
Both were/are reliable.

The ED cost bugger all over its 300,000k life.
The AU has been here for 2 years, has done 60,000ks since the missus leadfoot got it, and over the past few months has cost a grand or so in fixes.
Battery, tyres, exhaust, (go the new Lukey!), air filter and one component failure to do with the computer sensor system for $240....oil/filter in the tranny.
It does more than 600ks a week and these are general runningcosts, (I change the engine oil and Z9 filter every 10kks)...

It cost just $7k a few years back and I wasn't expecting a Benz or a Roller...and it still looks neat...

Nice car for the bucks.

GQ

[BigJon]

I think you might want to do abit of research on that . all they change on the BA from the AU was the head lights and tail lights .

Err, not really.

BA engine is DOHC.
Rear suspension is the "control blade" IRS.

[BigJon]

I was comparing the Chev/holden 10 bolt Salisbury type diff to the Ford 9",

So was I.

I don't have much knowledge of those old gearboxes. I am only 32 years old! :D

[Outback 1]

I think you might want to do abit of research on that . all they change on the BA from the AU was the head lights and tail lights . The rest of the car is the same. same shell and all parts bolt onto each model and the ford six is still a guzzler . And yes have driven one and have mates that own them and wish they didn't . I think the ford will be a better car with the V6 in it ;)

better check out some specs !ba's have vct engine {dohc} au's didn't also this change alone altered fuel economy as i own and drive one i should know it has been a reliable and brilliant car for the last 60000 kms:D

[Outback 1]

I think you might want to do abit of research on that . all they change on the BA from the AU was the head lights and tail lights . The rest of the car is the same. same shell and all parts bolt onto each model and the ford six is still a guzzler . And yes have driven one and have mates that own them and wish they didn't . I think the ford will be a better car with the V6 in it ;)


Graham Smith

There are times you have to ask yourself why you would buy a new car when secondhand ones are so much more affordable. Take the BA Falcon for instance. A used car dealer mate recently bought a 2004 Mark 1 BA Futura wagon at auction for $16,000. It had done a mere 30,000km and was in unmarked condition.

That same car retailed at almost $40,000 when it was new.

Now, my dealer mate added his profit to the price before he retailed it out of his yard at $20,500, but even then it was still just a tick over half the original sticker price.

The BA Futura used here is just an example of the bargains out there in near-new cars, particularly the Falcons, Commodores, Magnas and Camrys.

MODEL WATCH

The BA Falcon was a make-or-break car for Ford. After the disastrous AU the BA had plenty of ground to make up if the company was going to be viable going into the future.

Thankfully for all of us it turned out to be a pretty decent car, far and away better than its disappointing predecessor.

Ford pumped lots of new features into the BA, far more than it really would have, had it been a normal upgrade.


The 4.0-litre six-cylinder engine was given a major overhaul with double overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder with infinitely variable valve timing. In base form the Barra engine put out 182kW at 5000 revs and 380Nm at 3250 revs, more than sufficient to give the BA plenty of zip. There was the choice of a five-speed manual or four-speed auto, the latter having sports shift.
The suspension was also revamped, particularly the rear suspension.The overhaul continued inside as well with an all-new layout focused around a central control console. Standard features in the base XT included airconditioning, CD sound, power driver's seat, power front windows, trip computer, cloth trim, dual front airbags, anti-skid brakes, 60/40 split-fold rear seat.

In addition to that, the Futura had cruise control, power rear windows, 16-inch (40.64cm) alloy wheels, rear centre armrest, cup holders, grab handles and courtesy lamps.

Make the next step up to the Fairmont and you also drove away with dual-zone airconditioning, velour trim, six-stack CD, woodgrain dash, leather-trimmed steering wheel, side airbags, and traction control.

The last step, sporty XRs aside, was to the Fairmont Ghia which had the added features of a six-way driver's seat with memory for settings, adjustable pedals, 17-inch (43.1cm) alloys and fog lamps.


IN THE SHOP

With just 30,000km or so under its wheels there should be little that's gone wrong with the Falcon. To date there is none of the head gasket, radiator, power steering problems that were a regular occurrence on the AU. And rental car agencies say they're having a better run out of the BA Falcon than they are with the equivalent Commodore or Magna. In reliability terms they are rating it as high as the Camry.

Mechanics working on roadside assistance are reporting an annoying BA problem.

It seems they simply stop and can't be started again without being towed to a Ford dealer where the electronics can be checked.


CRUNCH TIME

With decent handling from independent suspension front and rear and anti-skid brakes the Falcon delivers quite good primary safety.

On the secondary level it has dual front airbags, and on the Fairmont, side airbags.


HOW MUCH

There are lots of compelling reasons for buying used large cars, but saving money is the best one. At auction, BA Falcon XTs are being knocked down for as little as $14,500 on average. At retail prices, the

same car will sell for $3000 more. The Futura sedan retails for about $18,500 and the equivalent wagons will cost about $18,500 and $19,500.

The Daily Telegraph

:D:o

[Fusion]

Err, not really.

BA engine is DOHC.
Rear suspension is the "control blade" IRS.

Ok so they added the extra cam but my fairmont had IRS ???


better check out some specs !ba's have vct engine {dohc} au's didn't also this change alone altered fuel economy as i own and drive one i should know it has been a reliable and brilliant car for the last 60000 kms:D

AU's did have the VCT just not the DOHC and the fuel economy is still not that crash hot

[rovercare]

Wrong, Ford did not build the 9", they had some input on specs but the diffs were supplied to them by the same company that made Detroit Lockers. Ever wondered why a detroit locker will fit and is almost identical. Found this out when pulling down a mates F100 some years ago. Amazing what a bit of research will uncover. The original doccumentation even stated it was a 9". One of the ones that got through apparently that was not stamped as a Ford, supply issues for a while we believe.

Detroit lockers are built to suit numerous diff's not just the 9";)

[rovercare]

The Ford Cleveland engine was built only in Australia from 1972, production of this engine 302/351 canted valve V8 were built at Geelong after production of this motor ceased in the USA in 1972, Australia built this engine up to the XE Falcon model, Regards Frank.

Correct, american design, antiquated at that:angel:

Last one fitted to an XE esp

[rangieman]

It amazes me how all you one eyed car lovers can say one australian made car is so unreliable

And you brag about owning a Land rover , which is far from reliable:BigCry: :p

To ad some fuel to the fire , i work for holden , i own a LR and i bought the wife a falcon which we have done 130.000 ks no probs at all , which had 60.000 ks when we bought it :banana::banana:

You might joke at this but as i work in the game i know the things that go on with the company and i cant say im impressed at all (if you worked in a chocalate shop you soon get sick of it)

All i can say open both eye,s you dreamers:p:wallbash:

[rovercare]

If the 9" Ford diffs are so P!$$ weak why dont they(Harrops) use the Holden/Chev 10 bolt diffs? 1 good reason, because Holden/chev never ever built anything worth copying, the 9" Ford diffs first appeared in 1958 and they have been the benchmark for strong reiable diffs ever since, FACT, Regards Frank.

Standard 9" carriers are pi$$ weak, FACT, that IS why mobs like Harrop copy and dramatically improve them

[Fusion]

Just to throw another spanner in the works .If ford engines are so good why is there only one Ford powered sprintcar in Australia and only a hand full in the States . Long live the chev and may all your ford engines be boat anchors . Oh and gotta love the odd MOPAR engine :D

[rangieman]

Just to throw another spanner in the works .If ford engines are so good why is there only one Ford powered sprintcar in Australia and only a hand full in the States . Long live the chev and may all your ford engines be boat anchors . Oh and gotta love the odd MOPAR engine :D
So now its Chev v,s Ford make ya mind up :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing:
Ps , hows collingwood going:wasntme:

[Fusion]

So now its Chev v,s Ford make ya mind up :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing:
Ps , hows collingwood going:wasntme:

well seeings that holden run the chev engine and holden is owned by GM i don't think it would be John Deere v's Ford would it ????:imwithstupid::D

[rangieman]

well seeings that holden run the chev engine and holden is owned by GM i don't think it would be John Deere v's Ford would it ????:imwithstupid::D
As the thread started by you quoted Holden v,s Ford

It starting to sound like a collingwood supporter:p

[BigJon]

Ok so they added the extra cam but my fairmont had IRS ???



AU's did have the VCT just not the DOHC and the fuel economy is still not that crash hot

Yes it could have, but it was pretty rare and not very good. All other Falcons still had live axles, either coil sprung or leaf. The control blade is a much better IRS.

VCT wasn't standard on AUs either, just the "Tickford" engine.

[rangieman]

Maybe it should read collingwood supporters v,s Ford:tease:

[Fusion]

As the thread started by you quoted Holden v,s Ford

It starting to sound like a collingwood supporter:p

Ummm no ... I'm an upset hawks supporter .... and still say the umpires had white and blue stripes on :angel::wasntme:

[dobbo]

In regards to the V8 supercars

If I want to watch Taxi's racing eachother I'll go to Sydney on a Saturday night. I'm just waiting for the day they allow the drivers to put meters in their cars, imagine Bathurst if Tony Longhurst is waved down picks up a few patrons and drops them off at the local before continuing the race.

I think this thread has run it's course, as of late everyone is talking about non LR related crap. I think we need a decent run somewhere.

[BigJon]

Maybe it should read collingwood supporters v,s Ford:tease:

Maybe it should be "Collingwood Supporters vs Everyone Else" :p:D:twisted:

[rangieman]

Maybe it should be "Collingwood Supporters vs Everyone Else" :p:D:twisted:
Yep :imwithstupid::imwithstupid::imwithstupid::TakeABo w::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Tank]

So was I.

I don't have much knowledge of those old gearboxes. I am only 32 years old! :D
Seems you don't know what Chev diff I'm talking about, it is much bigger than the B/W Holden diffs around today, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Correct, american design, antiquated at that:angel:

Last one fitted to an XE esp
And the current Holden V8 is NOT ANTIQUATED, 2 Valves/Cyl., pushrod OHV, crap motor, flog out pistons and sleeves. Regards Frank.

[rangieman]

And the current Holden V8 is NOT ANTIQUATED, 2 Valves/Cyl., pushrod OHV, crap motor, flog out pistons and sleeves. Regards Frank.
And burn oil + suffer valve resession :rolleyes:

[Tank]

Standard 9" carriers are pi$$ weak, FACT, that IS why mobs like Harrop copy and dramatically improve them
You wouldn't know a fact if it fell on you, tell the car enthusiast market out there that the FORD 9" diff is Crap and they will laugh you out of the country, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Just to throw another spanner in the works .If ford engines are so good why is there only one Ford powered sprintcar in Australia and only a hand full in the States . Long live the chev and may all your ford engines be boat anchors . Oh and gotta love the odd MOPAR engine :D
How many Chev engines have EVER won anything of world significance, how many Formula I races have they won, Ford Formula 1 race engines have won more F1 Championships than all other makes combined. How many Chevs have won Le Mans or any other Race of significance, What happened to the chevs when they took on Carroll Shelby's Cobras, they even built an all alloy 396 and 427 chev (canted valve heads) to race the Cobras and they still got smacked and sent home, Back in the 60's and 70's nascar racing was dominated by Ford and Chrysler, where was the chevies, nowhere, so they changed the rules because chev couldn't win a race, which dropped engine sizes and Ford and Chrysler engines had to have restrictor plates under the carbs so the precious chevs had a chance, The Ford Indy engine revolutionised motorsport worlwide, what's the chev ever done, worldwide, there is life outside of the USA, not that they would know, Regards Frank.

[Outback 1]

Ok so they added the extra cam but my fairmont had IRS ???



AU's did have the VCT just not the DOHC and the fuel economy is still not that crash hot

so you can say that because you don't own one or drive one on a regular basis so that gives you better info than someone who does:D:clap2::tease::imwithstupid::imwithstupid::t ease::clap2:

[rovercare]

And the current Holden V8 is NOT ANTIQUATED, 2 Valves/Cyl., pushrod OHV, crap motor, flog out pistons and sleeves. Regards Frank.

Yep and American just like the cleveland you try to represent as australian:p

[Bigbjorn]

How many Chev engines have EVER won anything of world significance, how many Formula I races have they won, Ford Formula 1 race engines have won more F1 Championships than all other makes combined. How many Chevs have won Le Mans or any other Race of significance, What happened to the chevs when they took on Carroll Shelby's Cobras, they even built an all alloy 396 and 427 chev (canted valve heads) to race the Cobras and they still got smacked and sent home, Back in the 60's and 70's nascar racing was dominated by Ford and Chrysler, where was the chevies, nowhere, so they changed the rules because chev couldn't win a race, which dropped engine sizes and Ford and Chrysler engines had to have restrictor plates under the carbs so the precious chevs had a chance, The Ford Indy engine revolutionised motorsport worlwide, what's the chev ever done, worldwide, there is life outside of the USA, not that they would know, Regards Frank.

Have you ever heard the name "Chapparal'?

The Europeans changed the rules of the International Sports Car Championship after they were totally rolled by Chapparal using Chev. engineers and technology.

Have a look at the history of Nascar and see what Chev. engines and cars did under the control of guys like Smoky Yunick. The 358, 396, 409, 427, and 454 in various guises, the porcupine head, the three valve head. The 454's in the Mclaren Can-am cars were totally dominant. Chapparal used all-aluminium engines in the mid 60's coupled to a secret semi-automatic transmission whose details are still not public, and with driver controlled aerodynamics.

Corvettes were and are dominant in SCCA production sports car racing classes. Shelby Cobras were a purpose built racing car, not a production sports car that can be bought and serviced at any Chev. dealer in the USA. Ford have never built a production car that could keep a Corvettes tail lights in sight on the Nullabor.


The Ford Indy engine was copied from Meyer and Drake. They even bought an Offy to copy from and ballsed it up. The "Ford" GP engine was from Costin & Duckworth, a small English specialist engineering and design firm hence the brand name "Cosworth".

[Outback 1]

Bloody well needed to be. I spent more $$$ towing my 1997 XH ute to the Ford dealership than I had spent in total on maintenance on my CM Valiant ute in 13 tears. The Ford was an unreliable uneconomic pile of puss. A long litany of electronic failures and electrical problems, head gasket failure, brake disc wear, fuel consumption, holes worn in seat squabs simply from getting in and out, all made me look for a simple non-electronic work horse, a Land Rover County-Isuzu.

The keen sales staff at the Ford dealer would 'phone me from time to time suggesting it was time for a new one. I always replied that I have had 2 Falcons, the first and the last.
well mate the whole idea of a new model is it's mean't to be better than the last:D

[rovercare]

You wouldn't know a fact if it fell on you, tell the car enthusiast market out there that the FORD 9" diff is Crap and they will laugh you out of the country, Regards Frank.

You obviously know nothing of anyone building performance 9"s, billet carriers are a must to hold them together, I didn't say they were crap, best you stick to my words;) they simply aren't the ultimate that everyone believes.....IN STOCK TRIM

**** me, I was a ford fan, and a Rangry man, but once i realised how pig headed it is to be so one eyed, I opened my eyes:mad:

[googe]

:clap2: Well said Frank :) chevs are only good for a bit of fun on the street and there not real good at that either lol :twobeers:
Greg :)

[Tank]

Have you ever heard the name "Chapparal'?

The Europeans changed the rules of the International Sports Car Championship after they were totally rolled by Chapparal using Chev. engineers and technology.

Have a look at the history of Nascar and see what Chev. engines and cars did under the control of guys like Smoky Yunick. The 358, 396, 409, 427, and 454 in various guises, the porcupine head, the three valve head. The 454's in the Mclaren Can-am cars were totally dominant. Chapparal used all-aluminium engines in the mid 60's coupled to a secret semi-automatic transmission whose details are still not public, and with driver controlled aerodynamics.

Corvettes were and are dominant in SCCA production sports car racing classes. Shelby Cobras were a purpose built racing car, not a production sports car that can be bought and serviced at any Chev. dealer in the USA. Ford have never built a production car that could keep a Corvettes tail lights in sight on the Nullabor.


The Ford Indy engine was copied from Meyer and Drake. They even bought an Offy to copy from and ballsed it up. The "Ford" GP engine was from Costin & Duckworth, a small English specialist engineering and design firm hence the brand name "Cosworth".
Chapparals were trounced by Fords at Le Mans, all the rest is in the USA, where did you get that meyer and drake crap from, the indy Ford was developed from the 221/260/289 engine, by Ford, Carroll Shelby with the Cobras and Daytona coupes dominated Sports car classes WORLDWIDE. Get your facts right, cobras were available in street form for anyone that wanted one that's where S/C comes from Street/Competition, Name a Chevy that has ever won the most prestigous motorsport Championship in the world, F1, well, Regards Frank.

[rangieman]

Have you ever heard the name "Chapparal'?

The Europeans changed the rules of the International Sports Car Championship after they were totally rolled by Chapparal using Chev. engineers and technology.

Have a look at the history of Nascar and see what Chev. engines and cars did under the control of guys like Smoky Yunick. The 358, 396, 409, 427, and 454 in various guises, the porcupine head, the three valve head. The 454's in the Mclaren Can-am cars were totally dominant. Chapparal used all-aluminium engines in the mid 60's coupled to a secret semi-automatic transmission whose details are still not public, and with driver controlled aerodynamics.

Corvettes were and are dominant in SCCA production sports car racing classes. Shelby Cobras were a purpose built racing car, not a production sports car that can be bought and serviced at any Chev. dealer in the USA. Ford have never built a production car that could keep a Corvettes tail lights in sight on the Nullabor.


The Ford Indy engine was copied from Meyer and Drake. They even bought an Offy to copy from and ballsed it up. The "Ford" GP engine was from Costin & Duckworth, a small English specialist engineering and design firm hence the brand name "Cosworth".
Wasnt the ford GT40 a short production car that competed in lemans and whooped the europeans:D

[Tank]

You obviously know nothing of anyone building performance 9"s, billet carriers are a must to hold them together, I didn't say they were crap, best you stick to my words;) they simply aren't the ultimate that everyone believes.....IN STOCK TRIM

**** me, I was a ford fan, and a Rangry man, but once i realised how pig headed it is to be so one eyed, I opened my eyes:mad:
You call a ford 9" diff P!** weak against all of the evidence to the contrary and you have the hide to call me "pig headed" and "one eyed", if you cant comment without abusing someone, then I suggest you don't comment, Regards Frank.

[rovercare]

You call a ford 9" diff P!** weak against all of the evidence to the contrary and you have the hide to call me "pig headed" and "one eyed", if you cant comment without abusing someone, then I suggest you don't comment, Regards Frank.

Sigh...... it was a general comment, you also stated that i wouldn't know a fact if it fell of me, maybe a reflective look before commenting on my words??

All the evidence?? All 9s" that withstand horspower and abuse have billet carriers, i.e. detroit lockers, the cast carriers are weak as ****

[rangieman]

Sigh...... it was a general comment, you also stated that i wouldn't know a fact if it fell of me, maybe a reflective look before commenting on my words??

All the evidence?? All 9s" that withstand horspower and abuse have billet carriers, i.e. detroit lockers, the cast carriers are weak as ****
Matt hows the head :wallbash: :D

[Fusion]

so you can say that because you don't own one or drive one on a regular basis so that gives you better info than someone who does:D:clap2::tease::imwithstupid::imwithstupid::t ease::clap2:

So the same would apply to you that doesn't drive a late model holden on a regular basis ???;)

[rangieman]

So the same would apply to you that doesn't drive a late model holden on a regular basis ???;)
But i do :p

[dobbo]

So the same would apply to you that doesn't drive a late model holden on a regular basis ???;)


Yes I agree, because this is a
Land Rover forum:D

[Fusion]

:p so is it ok to talk about my HOLDEN powered landy ??:p:D

[rangieman]

:p so is it ok to talk about my HOLDEN powered landy ??:p:D
There is no words for that:wheelchair::thumbsdown::tease::woot::Rolling: :Rolling::wacko::unsure::BigCry::TakeABow:

[dobbo]

:p so is it ok to talk about my HOLDEN powered landy ??:p:D


sure, but you'll have to walk to the top of the track once your non baffelled oil sump rushes all of the sump oil to the back of the block, or your lack of torque due to your short throw engine gives up the goat half way up the track, or your substandard carbie dies at the thought of an angle, or your bastard mongrel clutch setup dies after a very short time.


Face it the best engine ever to come out in a commodore was a Nissan straight six in the VL

[rangieman]

sure, but you'll have to walk to the top of the track once your non baffelled oil sump rushes all of the sump oil to the back of the block, or your lack of torque due to your short throw engine gives up the goat half way up the track, or your substandard carbie dies at the thought of an angle, or your bastard mongrel clutch setup dies after a very short time.


Face it the best engine ever to come out in a commodore was a Nissan straight six in the VL
Couldnt help your self could you ,non LR talk:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[rovercare]

Face it the best engine ever to come out in a commodore was a Nissan straight six in the VL

And they ****ed that up:mad:

No head or crank angle sensor problems in an R31:D

[Bigbjorn]

Wasnt the ford GT40 a short production car that competed in lemans and whooped the europeans:D

Could you buy one at Soprano Ford in Newark? Or any other Ford dealer? As much a production car as a Mercedes-Benz 300SLR. They were designed and made by Lola.

[rangieman]

Could you buy one at Soprano Ford in Newark? Or any other Ford dealer? As much a production car as a Mercedes-Benz 300SLR. They were designed and made by Lola.
But a ford if you had the $$$$ at the time you could of had one any where you like:D

[rangieman]

How about you go paint your LR :p
Dont come in here trying get peoples emotions all fired up :BigCry::Rolling::rulez:
Now what did i say at the start of this thread:p

[Fusion]

[QUOTE=dobbo;603537]sure, but you'll have to walk to the top of the track once your non baffelled oil sump rushes all of the sump oil to the back of the block, or your lack of torque due to your short throw engine gives up the goat half way up the track, or your substandard carbie dies at the thought of an angle, or your bastard mongrel clutch setup dies after a very short time.


I'm hoping all the oil does goto the back as thats where my pick up is for the oil . And i've got this small feeling that the HOLDEN motor might have a little more stick than the the original landy petrol engine . Oh and as for the carby I don't have one . It's fuel injected :D

[Fusion]

Now what did i say at the start of this thread:p

Your loving this as much as I am LOL:D

[dobbo]

And they ****ed that up:mad:

No head or crank angle sensor problems in an R31:D

From memory that was only caused from the radiator height being lower than the head, proper bleeding of the system prevented this. The major ergonomic f up was the position of No: 5 sparkplug in comparison to the intake manafold wasn't it?

[rangieman]

Your loving this as much as I am LOL:D
:whistling::whistling::whistling::whistling::tease :

[dobbo]

I'm hoping all the oil does goto the back as thats where my pick up is for the oil . And i've got this small feeling that the HOLDEN motor might have a little more stick than the the original landy petrol engine . Oh and as for the carby I don't have one . It's fuel injected :D


so where is this magical beast and what tracks has it conquered? Please suppy pics. Oh I forgot it hasn't been


PAINTED YET

Therefore can we presume it has not been tested offroad

Can we presume because it will be freshly painted that it will not be tested in the near future?


Mate save on the paint and get some Simex's as for my dodgy carbie

DIESELS DON"T HAVE THEM

[Fusion]

so where is this magical beast and what tracks has it conquered? Please suppy pics. Oh I forgot it hasn't been


PAINTED YET

Therefore can we presume it has not been tested offroad

Can we presume because it will be freshly painted that it will not be tested in the near future?


Mate save on the paint and get some Simex's as for my dodgy carbie

DIESELS DON"T HAVE THEM

It may not be painted yet . but i do know what the motor will handle . And have done enough motorsports to know how far to push one . All I am doing is installing a black 202 EFI . So no need to get all upset and try and hit below the belt . And when it's completed in the next month or so i'll put it though it's paces and see how long it takes to break or wreck ;) and I didn't mention you having a carby ????

[dobbo]

It may not be painted yet . but i do know what the motor will handle . And have done enough motorsports to know how far to push one . All I am doing is installing a black 202 EFI . So no need to get all upset and try and hit below the belt . And when it's completed in the next month or so i'll put it though it's paces and see how long it takes to break or wreck ;)


I don't get upset over crap, just cannot see the point painting an offroader when you could be getting decent tyres with the money. Saying that though my opinions usually differ from lots of people, I cannot see the point of lifted suspension on a 4wd either, most see clearance and better approach/departure angles, I just see an unnecessary raise in the CG.

[Fusion]

I don't get upset over crap, just cannot see the point painting an offroader when you could be getting decent tyres with the money. Saying that though my opinions usually differ from lots of people, I cannot see the point of lifted suspension on a 4wd either, most see clearance and better approach/departure angles, I just see an unnecessary raise in the CG.

Whats wrong with the tyres i have ??? thought i had done ok with the tyre side of it ?

[Outback 1]

:Rolling::Rolling:
So the same would apply to you that doesn't drive a late model holden on a regular basis ???;)

i have made no comment with regard to holdens, reason being that unlike some others i don't try to make out that i know everything about something i have nothing to do with .unlike some others :wasntme::tease::tease::imwithstupid::eek2::Rollin g::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[dobbo]

Whats wrong with the tyres i have ??? thought i had done ok with the tyre side of it ?


Nothing wrong just could be room for improvment