First Look at Freelander 2 - Don't Like It

[101RRS]

Well I finally had a look at the new Freelander 2.

As most of you know, I am a Freelander supporter but the new model didn't do much for me - other than trick electrics on the 4wd system that doesan't actually work better on the road than the old system and an updated interior it is pretty much the same - not really bigger but a hell of a lot more expensive.

Nice car - but

Also had a look at the opposition softroaders - for what they are all desihned for, I cannot see the extra $15-$20 K for the Freelander - yes it is a better car but not that much. I appreciate Landrover thinks it is competing against the BMW X3 but in Aust it isn't - I will not be buying one and at that price I doubt it will be a success. Compared to what is on offer elsewhere - the Freelander is just not value for money.

It would seem that the Defender will now likely be the cheapest car in the landrover range - compared to the Freelander it is a bargain - might consider it instead as my town car.

Garry

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Interesting. I don't think you'll find too many people cross shopping the defender and the Freelander though.

[Utemad]

The Freelander2 might be more expensive than the equivalent BMW new (I have no idea what either costs) but I bet the positions will be reversed when they are both sold on the 2nd hand market in 2-3 years time :wasntme:

[LandyAndy]

Must admit I thought they looked pretty good when I sat in one a few weeks back.Wasnt too much smaller than my D2,and looked pretty smart too.
Was offered a drive,but I declined telling the rep I dont want one,just a Landy Nutter having a look.
Asked for a drive of a Range Rover Sport,his turn to laugh:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

[gorby]

I've looked at a couple though I admit I've not driven one. I was impressed with it. Much more upmarket feel than the old one, which I was a fan of too.

I guess the shift upmarket was going to happen really as land rover seem to be more pushing towards the luxury end of the market with the x3 etc. And I feel with that being a euro brand it's probably more difficult to compete against the likes of toyota and nissan price wise (import tax, shipping, and strong £), so why not move the car upmarket, and try and distance it''s self from the likes of the xtrail, rav4 and CR-V.

[djhampson]

The F2 can't be compared to the Rav4, CRV, X trail etc because they are in a different class of vehicle when you compare the engines. Small petrol engines compared to a bigish petrol or a torquey diesel.

The F2 still has a 10k advantage on the cheapest BMW X3 so it sort of ends up in a class of its own.

I took my F2 off road for the first time today - drove up the beach on Bribe Island. The car performed very well, the diesel engine is great. The driver on the other hand had a sub-standard performance and stuffed up a beach crossing by doing first and thinking second. :wasntme:

Thankfully a V8 Disco 1 was on hand to rectify the drivers stupidity.

The F2 was the car for me because its a nice comfortable car that doesn't handle like a bus for the weekday commute but it is still capable for some fun on the weekends.

[Timmo]

Think from what I have seen the X3 is about 15k more than the freelander.

[landyfever]

Are you sure it was a Freelander '2' that you drove :eek:

Seriously though I have driven several & I think their awsome :cool: Its still a 'softroader'.
My choice would be the TD4 auto.

[gorby]

The F2 can't be compared to the Rav4, CRV, X trail etc because they are in a different class of vehicle when you compare the engines. Small petrol engines compared to a bigish petrol or a torquey diesel.


That was exactly my point.

[101RRS]

The F2 can't be compared to the Rav4, CRV, X trail etc because they are in a different class of vehicle when you compare the engines. Small petrol engines compared to a bigish petrol or a torquey diesel.

The engines in the smaller softroaders are mostly V6 engines of 2.5 litres some are larger so not all that much smaller than the Freelander. The crappy jeeps have similar sized diesels and the physical size of the freelander is RAV 4 size - the larger softroaders such as Kluger, CX7 and Murano have engines the same size as the Freelander and present a better package for the price (most are about $5-10K) less than the Freelander. The FL is superior offroad but this is not its market.

The magazines etc still have the Freelander in the the compact softroader class with the RAVs etc not in the luxury softroader class like the BMW. It is only landrover that thinks it should be compared to the X3.

The Freelander is a great car and better than the RAVs etc but it is not $15K better - a TD4 HSE is over $60K on the road. Having said that though, a diesel BMW X3 is $20K more than the Freelander and the BMW is no better than the Freelander.

[gorby]

I think you have a point there, it's priced between the rav's etc and the X3. Which I think is fair. Although as you say it's probably equal to the X3 and better than it in a lot of areas (especially off-road).

I think I remember reading somewhere that the freelander was actually bigger than the range rover sport and only a few mm smaller than the D3.

[camel_landy]

Gary,

Did you actually take it for a drive (it doesn't sound like you did)? The main things that I notice between the old & new Freebee are:

Power - That new TD4 pulls like a train. ;)
Space - More room in the rear and especially the boot.

M

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Lets be honest guys, if LR said that the Freelanders competitors were X-snail, rav etc wouldn't we all be a bit worries?

[DirtyDawg]

Must admit I thought they looked pretty good when I sat in one a few weeks back.Wasnt too much smaller than my D2,and looked pretty smart too.
Was offered a drive,but I declined telling the rep I dont want one,just a Landy Nutter having a look.
Asked for a drive of a Range Rover Sport,his turn to laugh:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew
Hate smart Azz salepeople like that....what if you wanted to buy it and had a wad of cash bet you he wouldnt have laughed..

[LandyAndy]

It was ok Dawg
It was the same guy I bought BlackBetty off,I always say Gday when Im in there.Ive got a ride in the new Defender when he has one in stock!!!!!
Andrew

[inside]

Also had a look at the opposition softroaders - for what they are all desihned for, I cannot see the extra $15-$20 K for the Freelander - yes it is a better car but not that much.
You can look at it another way. Let's say your mandatory requirements are a diesel 4WD that has a 5 star safety rating. Your options are the BMW X5, Volvo XC90, VW Toureg or the FL2. In this scenario the FL2 is the cheapest without even weighing up the different off road abilities. It all depends on what you want and for a lot of people, me included, safety is an important factor when buying a new car.

[catch-22]

Although as you say it's probably equal to the X3 and better than it in a lot of areas (especially off-road).

Just out of interest, how do you know it is better off road then any of the competitors? Taking the pedigree and history away, has the FL2 proven itself off-road yet?

[gorby]

I didn't say was better, but probably, and just going from reviews from various places. There reviews online of the FL2 off road. I wasn't aware of the X3's off road prowess. ;)

[camel_landy]

Taking the pedigree and history away, has the FL2 proven itself off-road yet?

Errrr... Yep! ;)

M

[PhilipA]

Having not driven a FL2, I am not qualified to comment but I will anyway. What else are forums for than unqualified comment.
The first thing that worried me was the bloke on this forum who bought one and AFAIR , the aircon didn't work!!!
The FL1 was probably the top performer off road also, but it was the disasterous reliability that made it worth nothing used.
My main problem with it is how expensive it is. It will not sell at that price, just like the Disco is not selling.
Comparing it to the BMW X3 is maybe valid , but the X3 has been a sales disaster for BMW. Nobody, or hardly anybody seems to want a smallish soft roader at the price.
Regards Philip A

[beforethevision]

Are you sure it was a Freelander '2' that you drove :eek:

Seriously though I have driven several & I think their awsome :cool: Its still a 'softroader'.
My choice would be the TD4 auto.

Yeah, it was a FL2, this is what it looked like stuck. lol. I was lucky enough to be sitting aside laughing :P
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4923/dsc00457nu1.jpg

No, it goes really well, VERY powerful diesel, beautiful gearbox, and all up a very well filled package.
Offroad it destroys the FL1, and when careful gets places the heavy D3 cant go.

[BigJon]

. It will not sell at that price, just like the Disco is not selling.


???

We sell quite a few (Discos, that is), and we are right in the middle of the Toyota Stronghold as far as markets are concerned.
Tour operators love them too.

I wasn't aware that LR were having any trouble selling them at all. We haven't yet sold a Freelander 2, but there is quite a lot of interest. For the first time Subaru buyers and Land Rovers buyers are crossing between brands for similar size and price vehicles (Freelander 2 vs Subaru Tribeca).

[Scouse]

We had a rush of cars go through here then it died off. I asked our Sales Dept if there wasn't any interest but found out that we'd already sold our allocated stock :(.

2 more came in last week, Td4 HSE spec. Nice :).

[Frenchie]

Saw a couple in the US, badged as the LR2.

They should have ditched the Freelander name here as well to shake the bad reputation.

[crash]

The Age drive section will be doing their review of the FL2 in this wednessday edition. WIll be interesting to read their comments. Other reviews have been promising, especially the engines the journos all seem to like, then again turbo Diesels are the new petrols at the moment.

[VladTepes]

I'd have an F2 - but only if I could get a RR TDV8 and new Defender first !

[Dunnie]

On this same topic, my vehicularly unfaithful wife (she doesn't drive a Land Rover except when her Honda is being serviced) is looking to replace her 4 year old CRV with a smallish 4WD having a diesel motor. The Honda is not bad but it is very van-like, has zero stowage for odds and sods and you can slide the front tyres in Coles car park. The 'occasional' 4WD rear diff. is supposed to cut in and out automatically as required but in 4 years I have never been aware of it doing anything at all.

What do my fellow AULRO members suggest as a replacement?

[Bushwanderer]

On this same topic, my vehicularly unfaithful wife (she doesn't drive a Land Rover except when her Honda is being serviced) is looking to replace her 4 year old CRV with a smallish 4WD having a diesel motor. The Honda is not bad but it is very van-like, has zero stowage for odds and sods and you can slide the front tyres in Coles car park. The 'occasional' 4WD rear diff. is supposed to cut in and out automatically as required but in 4 years I have never been aware of it doing anything at all.

What do my fellow AULRO members suggest as a replacement?

A new wife? :D:D:D

[PhilipA]

We sell quite a few (Discos, that is), and we are right in the middle of the Toyota Stronghold as far as markets are concerned.
Tour operators love them too.


Well you must be selling a large proportion of the 140 or so a month that are selling Australia wide, vs the 200-250 that Disco2 sold. Maybe UK are not allocating enough.
But there are regular specials in the paper, especially for v6, so there are plenty of them.
Have a look at the top 20.

I didn't finish the last post as I had to go out.
The final comment I was going to make is that there are lots of really good cars now under 50K with diesels.
A couple that come to mind, Terracan, which I have driven and was impressed with. Santa Fe .
Hyundai have a terrific reputation for reliabilty now.
SWB Pajero.
And two of those are real 4WD with low range.
I guess its fair to say that I would not consider a vehicle without low range, as even though you might need it only 5% of the time, then you really need it.
So if I were replacing the old Rangie I would go Terracan or Pajero or Prado.
Disco 3 is too complex and troublesome. Members of our club just did the Canning with a D3. It was the base with springs. Both rear shocks gave up, and the rear bumper was ripped off by the pogo-ing.

Regards Philip A

[VladTepes]

Disco 3 is too complex and troublesome. Members of our club just did the Canning with a D3. It was the base with springs. Both rear shocks gave up, and the rear bumper was ripped off by the pogo-ing.

Regards Philip A

DId they have any other problems though ?

An air suspended model wouldn't have had shock absorber problems of the same nature I would think, and pogo-ing could well have been a characteristic of that particular (sprung) configuration.

IMHO a D3 is a great car, but if you are going to get one get a PROPER (ie the full air suspended doohickey) one. That's how they were designed to operate.

WHich leaves me wondering how bigmac is going on his D3 trek across to Broome via the Kimberley.

[BigJon]

. Maybe UK are not allocating enough.
But there are regular specials in the paper, especially for v6, so there are plenty of them.
Have a look at the top 20.


Disco 3 is too complex and troublesome.
Regards Philip A


True.

Only on petrol V6, not on the good ones :p.

LR aren't trying to compete with Toyota for sales volume. I think you would find that they are very happy with the way things are going here.

Can you back that up? We have very few problems at all, and no big problems whatsoever. We have Disco 3s here with over 80 000km, largely done on dirt roads.

[101RRS]

???

We sell quite a few (Discos, that is), and we are right in the middle of the Toyota Stronghold as far as markets are concerned.
Tour operators love them too.

I wasn't aware that LR were having any trouble selling them at all. We haven't yet sold a Freelander 2, but there is quite a lot of interest. For the first time Subaru buyers and Land Rovers buyers are crossing between brands for similar size and price vehicles (Freelander 2 vs Subaru Tribeca).

I think the monthly sales figures tell it all - the only Landrover models that sell reasonably well in their slot are the Range Rovers - D3s, Defenders and even the new Freelander all sell in poor numbers in their market slots.

[Malduin]

I've clocked up 5k on my FL2 HSE TD4 now and made a number of trips along West Coast beaches of Tassie and I'm delighted with the car, it does everything that I hoped it would - handling soft sand and river crossings with ease. On the highway it is one of the best handling and comfortable cars that I have ever driven - averaging 8.6 litres per 100 cruising at 110ks and with ample reserves for quick overtaking when needed. With only 15% of my time actually off-road it meets my needs perfectly.:)

[BigJon]

I think the monthly sales figures tell it all - the only Landrover models that sell reasonably well in their slot are the Range Rovers - D3s, Defenders and even the new Freelander all sell in poor numbers in their market slots.

Comapred to what? What is your baseline? As far as I know, they are selling as many D3s, Sports, etc as they can get into the country. Can't sell what you don't have!

[PhilipA]

Comapred to what? What is your baseline? As far as I know, they are selling as many D3s, Sports, etc as they can get into the country. Can't sell what you don't have!
Compared to everything else sold in Australia.
Not one Land Rover model appeared in the top 5 sales of any segment in the latest Overlander.
The Luxury SUV segment July 2007 sales were
BMW X5=300,Lexus RX=230,Mercedes ML=161,Volvo XC90=137, Jeep Grand Cherokee=132.
In other words just about every competitor bar Toureg outsold it.


The problem with selling so few is that Land Rover cannot have a cohesive dealer network outside of capital cities and large centres such as Newcastle.

With total Australia sales of maybe 200 per month of all models, it is not worthwhile for a dealer to take on Land Rover because of the cost of Special tools, mandatory parts buys, and technician training. How many would a dealer in Alice sell? 1 every 3 months?

There was a question about the proof of poor D3 reliability.
1 JD Power survey. Last one I looked at LR3 was LAST.
2 4WD Monthly. LR3 electronics failed. Others didn't.
3 Reports in Exploroz, suspension down on several occasions on canning trip.
4 Club member experience, lack of ground clearance, failed spring suspension.

Having been in the industry for 20 years, I find it hard to accept that after 3 years of a model, Australia does not rate sufficient allocation. Model shortages usually exist for about the first 6 months to a year at the outside. LR has some big plants in the UK ( Ford Dagenham) so any rational maker would ramp up production if the model was successful.

Or Land Rover Management is totally incompetent.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

Just for fun and to cement my reputation as a train spotter, I had a look at DOTAR recalls in Australia from 2005-2007.
LR3=3
Grand Cherokee=3
BMW X5 =nil
Toureg=1
Volvo XC90=4
Terracan=1
Land Cruiser=2
Patrol=nil
So better than some /one? but worse than most.
regards Philip A

[101RRS]

25 defenders sold so far this year in the whole of Australia - wow

[camel_landy]

Or maybe it's like your wine exports....

We only get your run of the mill **** over here as you guys keep the good stuff for yourselves. :angel:

:p

I'll go & crawl back into my hole now... :wasntme:

M

[PhilipA]

And thats because the Poms are cheapskates and buy most of their wine from Tesco.
Good wine at the right price doesn't sell.
And the few poms that are discriminating buy French wine because they are label snobs.
Howzat! LOL.
Regards Philip A

[ak]

Compared to everything else sold in Australia.
Not one Land Rover model appeared in the top 5 sales of any segment in the latest Overlander.
The Luxury SUV segment July 2007 sales were
BMW X5=300,Lexus RX=230,Mercedes ML=161,Volvo XC90=137, Jeep Grand Cherokee=132.
In other words just about every competitor bar Toureg outsold it.


The problem with selling so few is that Land Rover cannot have a cohesive dealer network outside of capital cities and large centres such as Newcastle.

With total Australia sales of maybe 200 per month of all models, it is not worthwhile for a dealer to take on Land Rover because of the cost of Special tools, mandatory parts buys, and technician training. How many would a dealer in Alice sell? 1 every 3 months?

There was a question about the proof of poor D3 reliability.
1 JD Power survey. Last one I looked at LR3 was LAST.
2 4WD Monthly. LR3 electronics failed. Others didn't.
3 Reports in Exploroz, suspension down on several occasions on canning trip.
4 Club member experience, lack of ground clearance, failed spring suspension.

Having been in the industry for 20 years, I find it hard to accept that after 3 years of a model, Australia does not rate sufficient allocation. Model shortages usually exist for about the first 6 months to a year at the outside. LR has some big plants in the UK ( Ford Dagenham) so any rational maker would ramp up production if the model was successful.

Or Land Rover Management is totally incompetent.
Regards Philip A


Yep I agree with all that Phill.

1300 = Playdo's a month

If Land Rover get to near 300 D3's a month it's a good month, and RRS are mainly selling well in the massive US market not here.

Problem is the average punter does not want cutting edge technology, they want a brand that is known for reliability, boring it may be.

[inside]

Compared to everything else sold in Australia.
Not one Land Rover model appeared in the top 5 sales of any segment in the latest Overlander.
Why is success measured in the amount of cars sold? Is Porsche and Lamborghini doing poorly because they don't sell a lot of cars or have massive dealer networks all over the country? I'm sure LR have targets on how many cars they wish to sell. Is there any evidence that LR are disappointed with sales in Australia?

[ak]

Why is success measured in the amount of cars sold? Is Porsche and Lamborghini doing poorly because they don't sell a lot of cars or have massive dealer networks all over the country? I'm sure LR have targets on how many cars they wish to sell. Is there any evidence that LR are disappointed with sales in Australia?

If your trying to suggest they are happy with how many they are selling in Australia, I don't believe you.:)

No punt intended.:)

[camel_landy]

And thats because the Poms are cheapskates and buy most of their wine from Tesco.
Good wine at the right price doesn't sell.
And the few poms that are discriminating buy French wine because they are label snobs.
Howzat! LOL.
Regards Philip A

:p

Tell you what, I'd probably kill for a decent bottle of Rockfords Rod & Spur right now. :cool:

M