My Favourite Australian Statesman

[DirtyDawg]

After fits of laughter My Apprentices Girlfriend (a History Maj at Uni) informed me of:

Lord Bunbury an early West Australian Statesman/Landowner
After Lunch on Sundays he engaged in his favourite Sunday Afternoon Pastime Hunting his preferred game was..










































































Aboriginals:eek:

[Redback]

And people wonder why they don't like us:no2:

[incisor]

the au version of the good ole us of a and their sunday picnic and lynchings...

gets a bit hard to fathom the depth of the arrogance involved...

[p38arover]

Regrettably, it's hard to understand the thinking of the time. However, it wasn't only aboriginals who were badly treated. One also must remember the inhumanity of the white man to their own who were convicts.

A visit to Norfolk Island or Tasmanian convict settlements would soon make that clear.

I don't find the subject funny as implied by your opening remarks and the thread title.

Ron

[Ken]

This sort of travesty continues today

Afghanistan

Women burning themselves in protest of arrangened marrige
Mother in Laws beating there sons wives because they do not approve of them
Men beating their wives within an inch of their life then taking them to a rundown hospital for treatment then these same woman douse themselves with kerosene and set themselves on fire

Abhorent behaviour that has no place in any society

[Bigbjorn]

I once read a historical work detailing the big game hunting in Africa. One English gentleman in late Victorian times whilst hunting in Uganda reported bagging "a biggish chief"!!!

I wonder if he had the head mounted and displayed in the trophy room of his country estate.

The Bushmen people of South Africa were also recorded as being ruthlessly hunted down as vermin rather than game.

[p38arover]

I sometimes wonder if we have progressed.

I'm sure that if the Roman Circus was reintroduced, the stadia would be filled.

Ron

[dobbo]

I sometimes wonder if we have progressed.

I'm sure that if the Roman Circus was reintroduced, the stadia would be filled.

Ron

most definately

[aclo]

In what way is that story funny? Very poor taste.

[googe]

In what way is that story funny? Very poor taste.

Totaly agree

Greg

:burnrubber:

[p38arover]

In what way is that story funny? Very poor taste.

I've just realised that I had mis-read Dawg's post and, therefore, Dawg's own views which were not made clear.

He hasn't claimed it was funny. His apprentice was the one doing the laughing.

My apologies to Dawg if I maligned him in my earlier post.

Ron

[aclo]

You are no doubt right Ron, but it is still poor form... maybe I am out of touch...

[FenianEel]

I've just realised that I had mis-read Dawg's post and, therefore, Dawg's own views which were not made clear.

He hasn't claimed it was funny. His apprentice was the one doing the laughing.

My apologies to Dawg if I maligned him in my earlier post.

Ron

I hope so Ron, but the title of the thread is
"My favourite Australian statesman" :unsure:

[p38arover]

I hope so Ron, but the title of the thread is
"My favourite Australian statesman" :unsure:


Good point. I had mentioned that in my first post then forgot about it.

Ron

[Utemad]

After fits of laughter My Apprentices Girlfriend (a History Maj at Uni) informed me of


I've just realised that I had mis-read Dawg's post and, therefore, Dawg's own views which were not made clear.

He hasn't claimed it was funny. His apprentice was the one doing the laughing.

You're slipping Ron :p

I'm note sure how many of his apprentices have the same girlfriend though :D

[JamesH]

Who exactly is/was this Lord Bunbury? There was a Lord Bunbury who lived in UK and I don't think he ever came to WA. There was a Lord Forrest of Bunbury, and if this is who we mean then he was definitely a "Great Australian". One ofthe country's greatest explorers and a brilliant farsighted Premier of Western Australia.

We must be aware of judging our predecessors through the prism of our current values. Those who came before made this country what it is and enabled us to learn and develop our ideas and values. It is very easy to be compassionate with supermarkets full of food and 37 hour weeks.

Somebody made a very good point that we are all humans and all have faults and injustice and inhumanity survives today.

And furthermore I don't believe John Forrest did those things and I also know that the history of aboriginal/settler relations south of Perth (ie between Perth and Bunbury) was a violent one. Many indigenous Australians and settlers died violently. I expect the situation was far too serious to be something that one enjoyed as a Sunday past-time. It was going on 7 days a week and the stakes were very high.

[p38arover]

You're slipping Ron :p

I'm note sure how many of his apprentices have the same girlfriend though :D

Mea culpa! :p

Ron

[cartm58]

Romans did it on a large industrial scale called them gladiators and pitted them against animals and other human beings.

Criminals were executed in arena as well apparently drew lots and the criminal executed the poor sod allotted to him before handing over the weapon to the sod who was assigned to kill him the last mans tanding were killed by animals or gladiators after weapons returned.

Yet people love the italians today and flock to see the death factory which is was the Colssum

[Quiggers]

The Magnum, a very hot Statesman!

GQ

[mittadisco]

After fits of laughter My Apprentices Girlfriend (a History Maj at Uni) informed me of:

Lord Bunbury an early West Australian Statesman/Landowner
After Lunch on Sundays he engaged in his favourite Sunday Afternoon Pastime Hunting his preferred game was..

Aboriginals:eek:

The 'apprentices girlfriend' is supposedly a history maj at uni. Don't get fooled by the university type - they will always want to rewrite history.... Why on earth would she find it funny enough to enter fits of laughter?... she sounds a bit twisted. (Bit like laughing at what took place in Abu Graib or what the British did to the Indians in their hill stations or what happened Auschwitz etc). I hope you asked her where is the evidence for Forrest - primary sources only please. If she has some, she should be weeping or embarrassed of the fact that a Statesman of Australia, held in high esteem, could be found wanting in character - but definitely not laughing.

I hope by your post that you're not expecting us to find any humour together with this history major..... there is none.

[mittadisco]

For those interested - a biography of Forrest (http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A080565b.htm?)

[incisor]

Yet people love the italians today and flock to see the death factory which is was the Colssum

yeah and todays do gooders stand back and do bloody nothing while thousands die in dafur or uganda or the congo or rwanda. how are we any better than them?

[dobbo]

yeah and todays do gooders stand back and do bloody nothing while thousands die in dafur or uganda or the congo or rwanda. how are we any better than them?


I agree the only difference between todays society and that of the Romans is the fact we do not make the victims have sex with bulls and donkeys before they die

[incisor]

I agree the only difference between todays society and that of the Romans is the fact we do not make the victims have sex with bulls and donkeys before they die

tell me how i knew you would wade in with that aspect?

[p38arover]

I agree the only difference between todays society and that of the Romans is the fact we do not make the victims have sex with bulls and donkeys before they die

Given the chance, we (our society) would!

Ron

[dobbo]

tell me how i knew you would wade in with that aspect?

Hey don't you live up the road from the Big Brother house



Given the chance, we (our society) would!

Ron

Hey doesn't Inc live just up the road from the Big Brother house

[numpty]

yeah and todays do gooders stand back and do bloody nothing while thousands die in dafur or uganda or the congo or rwanda. how are we any better than them?

No oil there!!!!!

[crump]

I agree the only difference between todays society and that of the Romans is the fact we do not make the victims have sex with bulls and donkeys before they die
I dont remember that bit in "Gladiator."???

[dobbo]

I dont remember that bit in "Gladiator."???


Perhaps the donkey refused to work with Russell Crowe because he didn't want to be upstaged by one of the worlds biggest Asses.

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi guys,
This thread is getting a bit heavy!
I always try to view history relative to the era or circumstance it occurred, not the era or circumstance we are currently in. This takes the subjectiveness and politics out of it. Remember, eating raw meat from a still breathing beast is considered poor form today but par for the course in caveman times. Incarceration was frowned upon in Rome and Greece and other ancient cultures as it denied the perp the dignity of proving himself either by 'trial by fire' or other methods. Today, incarceration is king, physical punishment 'barbaric'. Same with this Bunbury chap. At the time it was acceptable....but not now. That is where the laughter or brevity stems from, not the act itself, but the fact it could occur as the norm just leaves you wondering.
Just to rant a bit more, I find it amusing that so many folk prefer not to discuss historial or current world events because they find them disgusting or outrageous. Sure, to them and in todays time frame they have that view and that is fine. My 85 yo Grandma still passionately believes children should be smacked when naughty. Is she so wrong? Not in her eyes as was the culture back then.
OK, took a breath, back on topic, I do not find the hunting of Aboriginals funny, but I find it amusing that the history of Oz contains such 'closet skeletons'....who'd have thought!

Ralph (ranting)

[mittadisco]

OK, took a breath, back on topic, I do not find the hunting of Aboriginals funny, but I find it amusing that the history of Oz contains such 'closet skeletons'....who'd have thought!

Ralph (ranting)

In no way should any 'guilty' be declared innocent - all I'm interested in is where is the information about Forrest coming from. Academics can get it wrong ...... or is some cases make it up.....

[DirtyDawg]

Well some diverse and predictable comments...
But remember the advances we have made
year 2007 and we have to send a Federal Task force North to stop them committing sexual attrocities on their own children:confused:
Unlike the Africans , Aboriginal genes do not throw back..So in time they will no longer exist...Sad very Sad that the pages of history will not shine with they cultural greatness of "Dreamtime" or "Rock art" or even great bush skils.. they will be remembered by the , Disease, Alchol ,sexual abuse and crime statistics..
All of the Englishes fault for colonizing a barren land that wasnt Barren at all..bit like giving the Israeli's a new country when it was already an occupied country (1945 Palestine)
For 40000yrs lived like caveman with little or no technological advancement...how the hell are they supposed to integrate in 200yrs.
So I feel sorry for them in that way...But when I read the news that an Aboriginal youths have beaten up a pensioner in their own home, or sexual penetrated a 4yr old girl or read the crime statistics Less than 1% of the population commit 66% of crime and are 81% of the prison population..I do not feel the Love people.
But as Mick Jagger sings..."Time is on my side, Yes it is" And if a family moved next door to you would you still be so politically correct.
This is my own opinion

[crump]

Hi guys,
This thread is getting a bit heavy!
I always try to view history relative to the era or circumstance it occurred, not the era or circumstance we are currently in. This takes the subjectiveness and politics out of it. Remember, eating raw meat from a still breathing beast is considered poor form today but par for the course in caveman times. Incarceration was frowned upon in Rome and Greece and other ancient cultures as it denied the perp the dignity of proving himself either by 'trial by fire' or other methods. Today, incarceration is king, physical punishment 'barbaric'. Same with this Bunbury chap. At the time it was acceptable....but not now. That is where the laughter or brevity stems from, not the act itself, but the fact it could occur as the norm just leaves you wondering.
Just to rant a bit more, I find it amusing that so many folk prefer not to discuss historial or current world events because they find them disgusting or outrageous. Sure, to them and in todays time frame they have that view and that is fine. My 85 yo Grandma still passionately believes children should be smacked when naughty. Is she so wrong? Not in her eyes as was the culture back then.
OK, took a breath, back on topic, I do not find the hunting of Aboriginals funny, but I find it amusing that the history of Oz contains such 'closet skeletons'....who'd have thought!

Ralph (ranting)
the intersting thing was that in Queensland at least, you could get a licence to do this well into the 1900s which was authorised by the Queen.:eek:

[Bigbjorn]

Plenty of historians have detailed killing of, and cruelty towards aboriginals in our early settlement days ( and even much, much, later). This seemed to be the way of the world then. The colonising nations regarded the native inhabitants of whatever land to be ignorant savages to be dominated, exterminated, converted to Christianity or Islam or whateverother religion held the colonisers attention. One Victorian era do-gooder criticised the Danes for their treatment of slaves in their Caribbean possessions. The Danes took umbrage as they only had the one justice system which applied equally to all their subjects. Their own lower orders were treated as poorly as the slaves!

My grandmother told me of an incident she witnessed in Winton about 1925. The police sergeant had arrived in town from a remote outpost on the Territory border, bringing with him three aboriginals, two women and a man, as "servants". He used to chain them to a log on the woodheap as punishment. One day she saw him flogging a chained-up gin with a stirrup iron. Now grandmother never mentioned the end of the story. Many years later an old bushman who witnessed the incident told me that my grandmother would not stand for that and grabbed an iron bar and belted the copper with it to stop the beating of the gin. Grandother being of a prominent and inflential family, the copper was not game to retaliate in any manner. The old narrator described the copper as "a drunken pig-ignorant Irishman".

Most western people would not have taken any notice of an incident like this, being between two of the then three lowest levels of bush society, Irish, Chinese and aboriginals.

[Redback]

Well some diverse and predictable comments...
But remember the advances we have made
year 2007 and we have to send a Federal Task force North to stop them committing sexual attrocities on their own children:confused:
Unlike the Africans , Aboriginal genes do not throw back..So in time they will no longer exist...Sad very Sad that the pages of history will not shine with they cultural greatness of "Dreamtime" or "Rock art" or even great bush skils.. they will be remembered by the , Disease, Alchol ,sexual abuse and crime statistics..
All of the Englishes fault for colonizing a barren land that wasnt Barren at all..bit like giving the Israeli's a new country when it was already an occupied country (1945 Palestine)
For 40000yrs lived like caveman with little or no technological advancement...how the hell are they supposed to integrate in 200yrs.
So I feel sorry for them in that way...But when I read the news that an Aboriginal youths have beaten up a pensioner in their own home, or sexual penetrated a 4yr old girl or read the crime statistics Less than 1% of the population commit 66% of crime and are 81% of the prison population..I do not feel the Love people.
But as Mick Jagger sings..."Time is on my side, Yes it is" And if a family moved next door to you would you still be so politically correct.
This is my own opinion and for you people that live in a part of Australia without them, walk a mile in the shoes of us that do.
for those I have upset with my opinion..PM me your address for the box of tissues:mad:

1% of the population, that meens that 99% of the population are respected and law abiding citizens, how many cultures can claim these figures, i'm guessing not many.

If whoever moved in next door it wouldn't bother me, unless they were disrespectful, but i wouldn't judge them just because of there background, just because someone is Anglo/Irish doesn't automaticly make them good people:mad:

Tissues, please give me a break

[mittadisco]

... we have to send a Federal Task force North to stop them committing sexual attrocities on their own children....... they will be remembered by the , Disease, Alchol ,sexual abuse and crime statistics..
.......... when I read the news that an Aboriginal youths have beaten up a pensioner in their own home, or sexual penetrated a 4yr old girl or read the crime statistics ................ And if a family moved next door to you would you still be so politically correct.
This is my own opinion and for you people that live in a part of Australia without them, walk a mile in the shoes of us that do.....

1. How about a special task force to deal with the same crimes in low socio-economic enclaves of 3rd or 4th generation welfare dependent whites? Yes they surely exist - even next door.
2. White fella are also commiting same crimes as beating up pensioners or raping children.
3. This is not a question of political correctness - rather getting to the truth in whatever context. And yes I have to deal with white neighbours doing the same thing ..... so your self styled righteousness about walking in shoes is just blowing off some hot air.


Back to your original post - what makes it funny for the history major student? Do you condone the actions of those who actually made it their sport to shoot aborigines on a Sunday afternoon, having been gto church in the morning?

[p38arover]

The old narrator described the copper as "a drunken pig-ignorant Irishman".

Most western people would not have taken any notice of an incident like this, being between two of the then three lowest levels of bush society, Irish, Chinese and aboriginals.

Ruddy heck, now you're going to upset FenianEel!

Ron

[p38arover]

For 40000yrs lived like caveman with little or no technological advancement...how the hell are they supposed to integrate in 200yrs.

I hear that trotted out regularly. It doesn't make sense to me. That's implying that it's in their genes and that they don't have the intelligence to move forward - something I refute, they are an intelligent people.

Further, I wonder what percentage of aboriginals are full-blood? In the major cities and larger urban areas, they are probably more white than black.

Ron

[FenianEel]

Ruddy heck, now you're going to upset FenianEel!

Ron

Well, on a par with the rest of his usual negative, degrogatory posts, regardless of subject. ;)
I think a few more crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms, could've been made in that post if the writer had more time actually, or could spell properly. :D

[p38arover]

Well, on a par with the rest of his usual negative, degrogatory posts, regardless of subject. ;)
I think a few more crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms, could've been made in that post if the writer had more time actually, or could spell properly. :D

umm.. :D:D

[FenianEel]

umm.. :D:D

de"grog"atory:D

[JDNSW]

Well, on a par with the rest of his usual negative, degrogatory posts, regardless of subject. ;)
I think a few more crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms, could've been made in that post if the writer had more time actually, or could spell properly. :D

Apart from the spelling, he was talking about eighty years ago, not today. And in 1925 "crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms" were part of normal society. While I can't specifically comment on the Irish, certainly in 1925 the White Australia policy was alive and well, it was not until over fifty years later that aboriginals were even counted in the census. I suspect the view of the Irish varied according to the proportion in the local area, although I am not sure whether it was proportional or inversely proportional!

But certainly getting upset about what is probably an accurate description of the way people thought eighty years ago is not very useful - if the statement was inaccurate, show how it was. If it was accurate, and certainly two thirds of it was, perhaps you should be commenting on how much things have improved (or not) rather than criticising him for saying it.

Denying that these attitudes existed does not change the fact that they did.

John

[Redback]

Well, on a par with the rest of his usual negative, degrogatory posts, regardless of subject. ;)
I think a few more crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms, could've been made in that post if the writer had more time actually, or could spell properly. :D


He has an excuse Fen, he's orange:twisted:

[DiscoStew]

This is my own opinion and for you people that live in a part of Australia without them, walk a mile in the shoes of us that do.

for those I have upset with my opinion..PM me your address for the box of tissues:angry:
Driving from Brisbane to Darwin and back was an eye opener on this topic. While I have long been sympathetic to the aborigine's issues around drinking and cultural alienation, I am now much more sympathetic than I was to the problems that the remote communities have in living with them.

But it is a shame that some people feel this gives them permission to automatically dislike someone because of skin colour instead of disliking them for their socially disruptive behaviour.


I think a few more crass generalisations and racial stereotypes and offensive terms, ... :D

Who is sticking up for the generalisations and stereotyping of do-gooders and university-type?:eek:

As with many things, public opinion of these groups is set by a very small number of noisy people who get into the media by being controversial/stupid. If it wasn't for both these groups society would be a pretty miserable place for all but the ruling class.

(I am not an academic but do work at a university.)

[JamesH]

de"grog"atory:D

I've made my fair share of those.

[dobbo]

Thanks Dawg now I have to put up with the whinging of the educated, many of whom have never seen an indiginous community.

[DiscoStew]

Thanks Dawg now I have to put up with the whinging of the educated, many of whom have never seen an indiginous community.

That was part of what i was saying, now that I have seen some towns were there are lots of indigenous very drunk/high in public places, I have a lot of sympathy for the others who have to live with it around them. I don't think I could do it so I try not to be too judgemental at any resultant racism. It is tragic for everyone.

[Quiggers]

I seem to recall that Queensland included aborigines in the 'flora and fauna' category until quite recently...

GQ

[DirtyDawg]

Thanks Dawg now I have to put up with the whinging of the educated, many of whom have never seen an indiginous community.
My Apologies Steve but I do love a heated debate.....;)
Every body has an opinion and most keep a lid on it in fear of upsetting someone..Hell just say what you feel and release the stress:D:D:D:D

[Ralph1Malph]

In no way should any 'guilty' be declared innocent - all I'm interested in is where is the information about Forrest coming from. Academics can get it wrong ...... or is some cases make it up.....
My point exactly! They are guilty now, in our time and rightly so, but not back then. Who knows that in 50, 100, or 200 yrs time, societies view may have changed and our era be considered as different from the norm. And yes, historical accounts tend to be 'moderated' by those writing it. So you are right to question the info as it may not even be accurate.
Ralph