What a Spud!!!!!!!!!!!

[sclarke]

Some people have no idea.....

http://www.lrocv.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31077

[dobbo]

you tell him

[ladas]

none whatsoever

[Blknight.aus]

Hrmm, might just get tombraider to leave one of the brain boxes for dads new rover on the Max Go setting and see what he rekons then.

[camel_landy]

Yep... Bit of a plonker. :D

It does annoy when people like that form opinions and then mouth off to everyone (pretending to be some sort of authority) when he hasn't even got 1st hand experience. :angrylock: It's a bit like people slating the Freelanders off-road abilities.

One thing I would correct though is that the new Defender is limited to 83MPH. Even so, there's still bucket loads of torque there just waiting for an ECU mod... ;). It's also significantly quieter at that speed than before. :D

M

[CraigE]

LOL
I presume talking the tonne we are talking 100mph??
The reality is what Defender really actually needs to do this speed?? Not mine, but in standard form it will wind up and cruise at 150kph. When I can afford the bigger intercooler and chip kit it will happen, but not for top end, but to hold the road at 100kph fully loaded with a trailerand still return decent economy.
If I want to go fast that is what the Stato and Duc are for.
That was the issue I had with the Disco 300tdi.
I wont be commenting on the new Fender until I get a chance to drive, but it looks the goods.
Toyotas V8 is basically a slug, go test drive one. The only half decent form it in is an auto. Even with the TD5 Fender if I boot it it will leave a 100 series off the mark.
Drive a standard diesel cruiser and they are a real slug.
As for Nissan is he saying the same for them now the Nissan Patrol will only be available ina 3 litre?

[djam1]

Yea I would say a Perentie
(for those who dont know a Perentie has 2 P@nises)
He couldnt be this silly playing with 1

[Blknight.aus]

oh I know of a unit that had a perentine with a ummm tweaked pump that was quite happy to sit on 150kph fully loaded with a trailer on the back also fully loaded....

not a whole lot of fun to corner in but great for getting around trucks....

[hiline]

my TD5 flies even towing my caravan(1300kg's empty)
well over a 100k's no problem :D;)


must agree on the TDi being a bit of a slug:angel:
i hated my 130 single cab one

[RichardK]

He told him!!

[Blknight.aus]

which leads me to another point..

would some one show me somewhere in australia where you could actually, legally get a landrover up to 160 kph and keep it there for more than say 5 minutes?

Never mind the fact that (stock) they should be on their limiters at something like 140 kph or so

[p38arover]

which leads me to another point..

would some one show me somewhere in australia where you could actually, legally get a landrover up to 160 kph and keep it there for more than say 5 minutes?

Never mind the fact that (stock) they should be on their limiters at something like 140 kph or so

Well, you used to be able to do it in the NT! :mad:

I've driven Transit vans and they seem to have plenty of poke.

[Blknight.aus]

I know...


darwin to the Alice in a WRX in 8 and a bit hours...

did you know those things sit on the rev limiter in top gear?

[duff]

You mean Defender ?

When my 2001 td5 Disco was new and stock it would sit on 140 all day do just over 160 regularly when I was in the mood.

Against the GPS it held 157 on cruise control. and that was for lots of minutes.

Now it is chipped and schtuff it will still sit on 140 all day, but I havent gone much faster so dont know her top speed.




which leads me to another point..

would some one show me somewhere in australia where you could actually, legally get a landrover up to 160 kph and keep it there for more than say 5 minutes?

Never mind the fact that (stock) they should be on their limiters at something like 140 kph or so

[Blknight.aus]

sorry yeah deefers and its a typo should have been 150...

[George130]

I do know that the trip back from Newcastle early this year towing the Pajero. I was passing cruisers and the like with their box trailers. Most of them would down shift as I passed to try and catch up. Friend and I keep the speed up as that was just before I removed te stuffed torque converter and if we let the speed drop the Box temp would rise. Rig had more go to:twisted:.

[dullbird]

i thinks its funny

because so many people have slagged the 07 defender with out any first hand experience

but wait until the first few arrive and people start seeing them out and about...........but bet everyone will want one;)

[101RRS]

When I first read the new Defender specs I was inclined to think the same about the engine - however I remember how I keep on getting passed or rapped off going up hills by huge diesel transit vans with big roofs. As I understand it the new Defender has the same basic engine in a different state of tune.

If that basic engine can pull a big transit van then I am sure it will do a defender proud. I have heard the transit 2.4 has some reliablity problems and knowing landrover the same issues will crop up in the defender but lets hope that for once this is not the case.

I have no experience with either - so comments also based on heresay.

Garry

[spudboy]

Well I agree that he is talking out of his @rse, but he has a valid point about the small motor for Australian conditions.

I have ordered a 110 (god knows when it will get here) with the 2.4 because that is the only choice I get. If there was an option for a V8 twin turbo, or even a V8 single turbo (or even a V6 turbo...) then I would have ordered one of them. Everyone wants more power.

Instead, people like us spend more $$ on chipping, big exhausts, bigger intercoolers etc, all to get more power from our 'small' motors.

Off road it is not an issue, but doing highway driving in a loaded 300TDi/TD5 (and I suspect in the new 2.4 too) you could use more poke.

[disco2hse]

Damnit I'm trying to get a test drive organised but every single one that slated for NZ is already sold :mad::rolleyes:

[Gromit68]

This particular user is the old president of the LROCV.

Remember, he was talking to friends on the LROCV website forum...he's had numerous Defenders and when I last was a member of that club, he seemed happy with his latest purchase (a 130 single cab, modified to be a camper).

That said, why rubbish a product if you haven't used it yet? I don't even do this with a product I find at the supermarket.

Notwithstanding, I can also see his perspective: if you were comparing the 3 "heavy duty" 4wds available on the market, why does the LR product seem so underpowered?

However, I still want one. If I had the money, I'd take my 2A down to a dealer and demand a trade-in!

-Alastair

[camel_landy]

Well I agree that he is talking out of his @rse, but he has a valid point about the small motor for Australian conditions.

I have ordered a 110 (god knows when it will get here) with the 2.4 because that is the only choice I get. If there was an option for a V8 twin turbo, or even a V8 single turbo (or even a V6 turbo...) then I would have ordered one of them. Everyone wants more power.

Instead, people like us spend more $$ on chipping, big exhausts, bigger intercoolers etc, all to get more power from our 'small' motors.

Off road it is not an issue, but doing highway driving in a loaded 300TDi/TD5 (and I suspect in the new 2.4 too) you could use more poke.

If you're having a winge about a small motor for Aus conditions then you're missing the point. The Defender is aimed fairly & squarely at the off-road / workhorse market. It is not billed as a motorway cruiser.

If you want something that's awesome off-road and a fast(ish) road car then you need to be looking at the something like the Discovery...

M

[sclarke]

Now the thread has been locked....

SPUDS

Go on mark, start a new thread on How good it is....

[101RRS]

If you're having a winge about a small motor for Aus conditions then you're missing the point. The Defender is aimed fairly & squarely at the off-road / workhorse market. It is not billed as a motorway cruiser.

If you want something that's awesome off-road and a fast(ish) road car then you need to be looking at the something like the Discovery...

M

Mark - I think you are missing the point and as you have been here I am sure you really understand - we have to drive big distances and any car, no matter what it is designed for should be able to cover these big distances at a reasonable speed and reasonable comfort - now I am sure the new Defender will be able to do this but there is still some concern - why pick this engine when there are better engines in the line up - why not the TDV6 for example.

Garry

[sclarke]

I think Mark is spot on.

You can cover big distances in a defender, OK not like a 100 series.
BUT
the 100 series is crap in the bush compared to the Defender.

We are all forgetting what a Defender is. Its a 4wd designed for its sole purpose to be the BEST 4wd built for 4wding, not touring. The Defender is just a run on of the Series.... and that was a Tool and not a sedan.
If you want to tour in a nice comphy 4wd that is still capable then you buy a Disco or Rangie.

Clarkie

[spudboy]

If you're having a winge about a small motor for Aus conditions then you're missing the point. The Defender is aimed fairly & squarely at the off-road / workhorse market. It is not billed as a motorway cruiser.

If you want something that's awesome off-road and a fast(ish) road car then you need to be looking at the something like the Discovery...

M

Well I wasn't really bitchin', because the new motor sounds like it is going to be fantastic. Just lamenting that the bigger engines are not even available as an option, that's all.

I've got the 3.0L diesel in my Rangie and it is such a pleasure to drive. Overtaking is no hassle even with a car full of gear and kids, and it still gives 10L/100Km so you don't lose economy to get the power. Be nice if you could get that in a 110......

[EchiDna]

spudboy are you one of the sons of the spud over on LROCV? lol! :D :wasntme:



(couldn't resist!!)

[spudboy]

Nope - it's people like them that give spuds a bad name :D

[101RRS]

I think Mark is spot on.

You can cover big distances in a defender, OK not like a 100 series.
BUT
the 100 series is crap in the bush compared to the Defender.

We are all forgetting what a Defender is. Its a 4wd designed for its sole purpose to be the BEST 4wd built for 4wding, not touring. The Defender is just a run on of the Series.... and that was a Tool and not a sedan.
If you want to tour in a nice comphy 4wd that is still capable then you buy a Disco or Rangie.

Clarkie

Hmmm - maybe that is the reason virtually no one buys new Defenders :(and if this keeps up will be extinct in this country.

[Disco Steve]

You told him:D
My TD5 tows 1.5 tonne at 110km/h with ease:wasntme:

[camel_landy]

I think Mark is spot on.

You can cover big distances in a defender, OK not like a 100 series.
BUT
the 100 series is crap in the bush compared to the Defender.

We are all forgetting what a Defender is. Its a 4wd designed for its sole purpose to be the BEST 4wd built for 4wding, not touring. The Defender is just a run on of the Series.... and that was a Tool and not a sedan.
If you want to tour in a nice comphy 4wd that is still capable then you buy a Disco or Rangie.

Clarkie

Exactly that...

Garry, I still stand by what I said. As you correctly say, I do have 1st hand experience of the distances you guys have to cover but no matter what car you choose, there is always going to be an element of compromise. My 300TDi 110 was more than capable while in Oz... I was running at 3500Kg for most of the time and would still happily cruise past most things on the road.

There’s another aspect to the larger engines that we haven’t covered here and that’s the fuel economy. If you stick a larger engine in the Defender, it’s going to consume more fuel. In turn that means you have to fit larger tanks, carry more weight and therefore you end up either reducing the range or reducing the payload capacity.

It doesn’t need a larger engine... It’s a tool, not a fashion accessory.

M

[eddiec]

It's been interesting reading all of this after we've just bought a 96 300tdi fender and driven it home from Adelaide on the weekend. These criticisms of lack of power and speed just don't gel with what we've experienced so far.

Now, this is not a perfect example of a defender (as my mechanic's bill now testifies!), but even then it sat on 110 without the slightest problem, and in fact had to be watched as it kept creeping up to 120. And then coming up the hills out of Bacchus Marsh it sat in 5th gear and just pulled up those hills without hesitating. I've never done that before!

Sure, I wasn't exactly trying to overtake anything quickly, but then I didn't need to.

And that was all done, Adelaide to Melbourne, on 3/4 tank! One happy camper so far!

[easo]

All I know is Sallyanne will pull... I've hooked up a Leopard Tank by A-frame to prove this point. Sallyanne pulled it, trying to turn it was interesting but she did it.

My main point is why have a car, 4X4 capable of going at high speed if the law will only alow so much. Even the NT has a 130kph limit now.

Easo

[PCH]

Now that was good lunchtime entertainment.

More kW and Nm never goes astray but you will pay for it in fuel. Whatever you have you just got to drive it to it's capability. No sense in pulling out to pass a B-Double with on coming traffic if you know you haven't got the grunt to get past with an adequate safety margin.

My 2.7 lt TDV6 might not be a big V8 grunter but she'll return 9.5lt/100km on the Ade-Melb run fully loaded which is pretty good in my mind.

Chris

[tombraider]

Hahaha

What a great laugh!!!

No-one used the WRX argument!!!

204ps max limit in Japan...
V8 Killer......

Power isnt always the way!!!

450hp/18 gears/22000kg...... Truck style :)
Gearing makes it happen.....

[101RRS]

Exactly that...

Garry, I still stand by what I said. As you correctly say, I do have 1st hand experience of the distances you guys have to cover but no matter what car you choose, there is always going to be an element of compromise. My 300TDi 110 was more than capable while in Oz... I was running at 3500Kg for most of the time and would still happily cruise past most things on the road.

There’s another aspect to the larger engines that we haven’t covered here and that’s the fuel economy. If you stick a larger engine in the Defender, it’s going to consume more fuel. In turn that means you have to fit larger tanks, carry more weight and therefore you end up either reducing the range or reducing the payload capacity.

It doesn’t need a larger engine... It’s a tool, not a fashion accessory.

M

Mark,

But tell me you wouldn't have preferred something like the TDV6 in the new Defender - come on you can tell me :)

Garry

[Quiggers]

Watcha whining about?

Some bloke drove a 2 seat 'smart' around Aussie a while ago and lived to write a story about his adventures....:D:eek::D:eek::D

GQ

[EchiDna]

define 'enough' horsepower, torque, highway speed etc etc etc... - this of course varies from user to user, but for me the defender (new or old) hits the spot.

I'd much rather drive a light truck (coz that's what the defender is) on the road than a family car (pretty much all other 4x4's). light trucks are not family cars and vice versa.

depends on how you weight the following factors (if you ask me):

1, on road manners
2, SWMBO friendly
3, Accessories (aircon, satnav, other electrickery)
4, touring range
5, off road manners
6, load/towing capacity

if you answered numbers in ascending order of importance, choose any disco
if you answered numbers in descending order of importance, choose a defender

[camel_landy]

Mark,

But tell me you wouldn't have preferred something like the TDV6 in the new Defender - come on you can tell me :)

Garry

To be very honest... No.

I've driven Defenders, with large engines, off-road and they just become difficult to control. The slightest touch of the throttle just causes massive amounts of wheel spin.

I also tend to find that the larger engines don't have as much engine breaking so it then becomes 'interesting' on the big drops.

M

[LRHybrid100]

Hey Mark,

Did you drive the LR mock up of the D110 with the TDV6?

[JDNSW]

Just to throw in a couple of other points. As you increase the power of the engine in, say, a Defender, you have the choice of :-

More easily breakable drive train
or
Higher gearing
or
Heavier drive train
or
Manual transmission not available.

Defenders are lower geared than most if not all of their competitors - and this becomes very important for driving over very rough ground or in confined spaces without slipping the clutch, but can only be maintained if maximum power is limited.

A completely separate question is whether for a given power you are better off with a small high boost engine or a large N/A or low boost engine. And the answer to this depends on what factors you rate most highly. The big advantage of the small engine is that it is invariably much lighter than its large capacity equivalent, and this translates into advantages in everything from ground pressure to handling to chassis and front suspension durability to tyre life. The large capacity engine in theory is more durable, but only if everything else is equal, which is rare - actual durability seems to be unrelated to this, more related to detailed design and manufacturing.

John

John

[PhilipA]

Again I have no diesel quals, but I will bet the reason they picked the transit motor is that it is CHEAP.
It is made in huge volume, and therefore will have long amortised its design cost.
As I have also said before I am sure the TDV6 is a VERY expensive engine as it is low volume, designed for luxury cars etc.
Would Aussies pay say $6000 for the TDV6 over the Transit?. I think not many.
BUT then Toyota does give the Australian market what it wants ( a turbo V8), and sells a sh1tload.
Regards Philip A

[landyfromanuthaland]

We had a 1994 Patrol 4.2 EFI, big motor, gutless wonder, wouldnt pull a greasy stick from a dead dogs bum, no room inside for gear, uncomfy and wandered and wobbled knowone could stop it, sold it, bought an AU ford and never looked back

[camel_landy]

As I have also said before I am sure the TDV6 is a VERY expensive engine as it is low volume, designed for luxury cars etc.
Would Aussies pay say $6000 for the TDV6 over the Transit?. I think not many.

However....

It's probably not as low volume as you think. After all it is probably the most popular engine in the Discovery & RRS. On top of that, I've noticed that the new Jag has a 2.7 V6 diesel option in the engine line up... ;)

Production costs between the two engines are probably fairly marginal.

M

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yep, our chipped td5 pins your ears back when asked to overtake on the highway...80-120. We have travelled with friends with a classic rangie v8 and they can't keep up :o

[camel_landy]

Go on mark, start a new thread on How good it is....

:whistling: