Diesel Gas Canberra

[JDNSW]

For anyone interested I'll pass on a bit of information I found out today. My son has brought his daughter up from Yass to spend the school holidays with me. He has been talking to the mechanic in Canberra (whom I have met) who looks after his Holden, and tells me that he expects within the next week or two to be approved for diesel gas conversion (already does petrol engines) - and he is interested in doing such a conversion on my County. I intend to have a talk to him when I take my grand daughter back, but if anyone is interested I can pass on the details of the outfit, as this may be of interest to those in the Canberra area.

John

[p38arover]

John, ask him who provides his kits.

What type of conversion does he do? Some like the manual control PowerShot 2000 system http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=29 aren't as good as the computerised systems.

There are a some PowerShot systems selling under different names.

My local installer, Diesel Gas Technologies http://www.dieselgas.com.au/home.htm, was selling the DieselGas Australia system http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/ but have now moved to their own design sequential gas injection system for diesels.

The first mob, DGT in Penrith (not DGA in Adelaide) are LR specialists as well, and the principals both drive 4BD1-T powered Rangies (they are also the blokes who did the conversion on the Patrol in the A4WDM article mentioned in the DGA page!).

Ron

[Michael2]

I spoke to a guy at APA (manufacturers of LPG tanks) in Melbourne, and they are bringing out their own computerised system in the near future. I'm still to get details on it.

It's a loop feedback system, where the computer gets inputs from the engine, such as airflow and speed to deliver the fuel, but also analyses exhaust gas to see how much fuel is unburnt and further moderate the mix. In laymans terms that's how it was described to me.

The unit was supposed to come in at about $3,800 for a Defender, which is cheaper than the other computer systems by about $1K.

If you can find out what system they're using & what they're charging, it may be cheaper for some to drive to Canberra, than have it done locally.

I'll keep the forum informed with any further updates on the APA system.

[George130]

Probably more $$ than I have but would be interesting to talk with them.

[Iain_B]

I'm definitely interesting in the Diesel Gas, and whilst the other ones may be better, the Power Shots system seems simple enough and it should be a whole lot cheaper than the $4,800 I was quoted ( less the $2000 means it still $2,800)

What are the downsides in the Powershot style system, and does anyone know who could fit one in Brisbane?

[JohnM]

Having recently just moved to Canberra (Queanbeyan) is there any word on the gas conversion for diesels in Canberra. I was looking at the guys at Dungog but they couldn't fit me in before I moved. Where abouts are the Canbera guys located and what system do they install? Anyone had it done to the 300Tdi Discovery?

[George130]

I think I still have the details at work. If you still don't know next week when I'm back I will look it up for you.

[Kandy]

Well I for one am sitting back, on my hands/wallet on all this diesel/gas conversion as there are a lot of different types now on the market. There is a good forum on the FWD magazine-monthly or action? on this subject. Do you want the type that goes through the air intake (pre turbo) or the intake manifold (post turbo/intercooler). Ive read on one forum of a stuff up big time which blew the motor (over gassed) by a nong operator, (some of these products seem to be franchised out). I personally am leaning towards Ecogas but in no rush what so ever. The overall picture is certainly encouraging us to part with a lot of $$$$ so caveat emptor!!!--geez did I spell that correctly?
Steve

[Disco Pom]

Ray at Canberra Motor Works in Mitchell has just been on a Diesel/Gas installation training course and intends to start doing some conversions pretty soon.

He used to do Petrol/LPG conversions and is a well known Land Rover specialist in Canberra.

Not sure what systems he will be using..

Give them a call on 02 6241 8777 and see what he intends doing..

I've just sold my TD5 Disco..but was considering getting it done..

cheers,
Richard

[1103.9TDI]

I am interested in getting the most out of my engine, but I cant see the difference (besides cost) of adding ULP or similar, as against LPG, to diesel!. Why not add say 10% ULP to the mix in your fuel tank?, unless you're on a 20 year plan...'longevity'........The standard diesel engine works on detonation, all it's doing is pumping harder, somethings gotta give......So ok, how does that work...you fit the expensive system , 'long term', and end up wearing the engine out 'short term'!.

The garb is that the burn is so much more efficient, really, if your vehicle is tuned to optimum, the burn should be?.......let me know how the diesel gas fitted engines go in 24 months, then I might look at it......do they offer a warranty on a 100k+ engine?.......

[akelly]

Gerry - let me know how you go with adding ULP to your fuel tank... You might wanna film it for posterity!

[T.D.5]

I spoke with the Sequent II guys - they're in Orange NSW from memory & they didnt know of anyone coming onboard to do installs in Brisbane. I am keen to hear feedback from those of you who get it done in the future. I would consider it for the power boost.

Yesterday I was chatting with a chap here who does duramax conversions into 4WDs. A 6.5ltr supercharged chevy into a patrol / disco = $35000 & then they go & get a gas conversion!!?? Who'd figure they were worried about economy. Ha. Makes me laugh.

[mcrover]

Ok, there are a couple of differences between Diesel Gas vs ULP.

With ULP at 5% to 10% it speeds up the burn and gives a more complete burn but it also thins the diesel so you tend to change the spray pattern and can possibly lean out the mixture and burn the tips of your injectors espesially on direct injection diesels.

With LPG fumigation, it does a similar thing in increasing the speed of combustion thus increasing the amount of fuel burned in the process but without damaging the injectors, injector pump or the engine from predetonation.

It doesnt do much harm to run 5% PULP a couple of times a year to clean everything up a bit but a good fuel treatment is better.

As I posted in the other LPG/Diesel thread, I have been told by 3 well respected LR specialists that LPG fumigation can blow head gaskets but I am of the thinking that they would have been dealing with it in its early stages and things are probably much better now.

[1103.9TDI]

Gerry - let me know how you go with adding ULP to your fuel tank... You might wanna film it for posterity!

Adam, I'm not saying I actually do it!, I'm just airing my concerns about these DieselGas systems, for example:


What would be the difference between adding gas and adding ULP; cost aside?.

How does the Gas produce lower EGT's as claimed, and still give more power?.

Another point is storage of the Gas, is it allowable to have tanks inside the vehicle?.

Also, filling LPG tanks has always been a PITA, especially when they are small and separate, or has this changed?.

I bet no one is touching the warranty issue!........to be expected.......


Like I said, if it is as good as these guys claim, all diesel transport machinery should be fitted immediately without delay, we have heaps of cheap LPG in this country, it should be utilised!.

This technology is not new, I wonder why major transport companies haven't taken it up?, with all the benefits you'd think the waiting list would be years!.

Imagine the savings that could be made on diesel locomotives, trucks, buses, let alone the reduction in greenhouse gases, are councils, trucking firms, etc fitting this system to their vehicles?, if not, why not, the subsidy is for everyone.......I urge caution, but have an open mind........

[mcrover]

Adam, I'm not saying I actually do it!, I'm just airing my concerns about these DieselGas systems, for example:


What would be the difference between adding gas and adding ULP; cost aside?.

How does the Gas produce lower EGT's as claimed, and still give more power?.

Another point is storage of the Gas, is it allowable to have tanks inside the vehicle?.

Also, filling LPG tanks has always been a PITA, especially when they are small and separate, or has this changed?.

I bet no one is touching the warranty issue!........to be expected.......


Like I said, if it is as good as these guys claim, all diesel transport machinery should be fitted immediately without delay, we have heaps of cheap LPG in this country, it should be utilised!.

This technology is not new, I wonder why major transport companies haven't taken it up?, with all the benefits you'd think the waiting list would be years!.

Imagine the savings that could be made on diesel locomotives, trucks, buses, let alone the reduction in greenhouse gases, are councils, trucking firms, etc fitting this system to their vehicles?, if not, why not, the subsidy is for everyone.......I urge caution, but have an open mind........

I touched on a couple of issues with using ULP with diesel in my previous post and there are some really good tech articals about it on here somewhere so if your interested do a search.

As far as why dont commertial opperators use it, there are a couple of bus companies in Melb using it and quite happy but the warrenty issue is a major reason why more commertial operators wouldnt be using it.

As far as LPG tanks in a vehical goes, no problem having the tank in the interior, it just has to be a. fitted by a qualified/certified LPG fitter and b. Has to be securely bolted to the floor of the vehical c. vented to the outside of the vehical.

They have been fitting LPG tanks in the cabins of cars since the early 80's and it's not much different now.

As far as filling goes, they now have whats called an AFL valve fitted to all gas systems since 1986 which will only allow to fill to 80% with no bleeding of the system nessesary.

I think that pretty much covers it.

edit : just to add, there are also a couple of trucking companies and bus companies down here that are trying out natural gas systems as well, I know of 1bus company over near ringwood and 1 in Geelong as well as a trucking company out of Keilor aswell.

[akelly]

Ah yeah, fair one Gerry. I know some say you can put a splash of ULP in to clean things up - I would rather get it done properly in my D2 though, just too much money to be spent if it stuffs up.

I would think that a decent chip would give a similar result with a lot less risk (and cost). I know that gas has been used in the US for years in buses and trucks - different to a car though.

[101RRS]

Ray at Canberra Motor Works in Mitchell has just been on a Diesel/Gas installation training course and intends to start doing some conversions pretty soon.

He used to do Petrol/LPG conversions and is a well known Land Rover specialist in Canberra.

Not sure what systems he will be using..

Give them a call on 02 6241 8777 and see what he intends doing..

I've just sold my TD5 Disco..but was considering getting it done..

cheers,
Richard

The Canberra Motor Works is the last organisation I would let near my car based on my past experience. Plus take twice as much money with you as you will think you need - they know how to empty your wallet.

Garry

[T.D.5]

IMHO as soon as someone mentions 'rebate' all the best things happen. Like the price doubles, claims are made that Power jumps 50% mileage is phenominal etc etc etc.

Look at rainwater tanks here is Brisbane. Before the plumbing rules changes they were selling 100s a day at $1500 for a 3000ltr tank. Now a couple a day & you can get a 5000ltr tank for 900 & a 10000ltr tank for 1500.

The govt would be better of rebating flash tunes & asking for emmisions tests every 2 yrs for those that took up the rebate. That would get fuel burning better & reduce exhaust gases.

Maybe they could start with there various belching bus fleets nationally.

As is said above IMHO.

[1103.9TDI]

Yeah, thanks MC, I got called away for a few minutes in the middle of posting, so I didn't see your reply........I'll have a look at doing a search, see what I can dredge up............