4BD1/T vs Rover V8 County

[1103.9TDI]

Thought I'd start this thread as some insecure V8 owners just can't let it go and keep hijacking an unrelated thread!.
I reckon the NA Isuzu is awesome, for all aspects of offroad driving, turboed even better!. The combination of high torque available at very low revs, makes it a delight to drive in challenging conditions. Open road touring is much enhanced with a turbo, but perfectly adequate in a NA, and of course, the fuel economy speaks for itself!. Isuzu reliability has been discussed at length in these and other forums, and I'm sure there are not many other 4WD engines with such a robust reputation. 110 County's were fitted standard with a Rover V8, so why would the ADF go through such an expensive project (Perentie) if the V8 was superior in any way to the 4BD1?.

The only field where a V8 may be useful is in some dry competition events, and then, delivered on a trailer.:D

[cmurray]

The only field where a V8 may be useful is in some dry competition events, and then, delivered on a trailer.:D

Two words
Slippery hills!

The Isuzu does not rev hard enough for climbing the slippery hills, and does not have enough power to pull a higher gear to compensate for the extra revs you get out of the V8.

I've done quite a few hills with both difflocks in, Silverstones MT117Ex's on less the 15 Psi and pulling over 3500RPM trying to climb hard packed red clay hills. This is something you just cannot do with an Isuzu.

I remember a trip I did years ago where my 90 with a 2.5 petrol climbed a slippery hill easier than an Isuzu county, as the Isuzu driver said when he finally go to the top, "I was using all 3200RPM to climb that!"

[Utemad]

No doubt the Isuzu motor is a great one. My last 4wd was an Isuzu and the engine and drivetrain was very strong.
However a Jap motor in a Landy? That's just not cricket :p:D

[BigJon]

so why would the ADF go through such an expensive project (Perentie) if the V8 was superior in any way to the 4BD1?.



Fuel commonality. Trucks, tanks, etc run on diesel.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thought I'd start this thread as some insecure V8 owners just can't let it go and keep hijacking an unrelated thread!...
Fuel commonality. Trucks, tanks, etc run on diesel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1292.jpg Gerry you're right - you were talking about the 4BDI versus Rover V8's and Big Jon hijacked it with a thread about tanks and trucks and diesel fuel.

You just can't win.

Diana :D:D:D:D:D

P.S. Now about the comment suggesting V8's being delivered on trailers - I'll have you know .........

[BigJon]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1292.jpg Gerry you're right - you were talking about the 4BDI versus Rover V8's and Big Jon hijacked it with a thread about tanks and trucks and diesel fuel.

You just can't win.

Diana :D:D:D:D:D
..

That isn't a hijack, that is a direct answer to a posed question.

[D110V8D]

Thought I'd start this thread as some insecure V8 owners just can't let it go and keep hijacking an unrelated thread!.

(The add/thread was for a V8 110 County, not an Isuzu);):D

I reckon the NA Isuzu is awesome, for all aspects of offroad driving, turboed even better!. The combination of high torque available at very low revs, makes it a delight to drive in challenging conditions. and of course, the fuel economy speaks for itself!.

Yes it does. No arguement there.:)

Isuzu reliability has been discussed at length in these and other forums, and I'm sure there are not many other 4WD engines with such a robust reputation.

The Rover V8 is also a very reliable engine.:)

110 County's were fitted standard with a Rover V8, so why would the ADF go through such an expensive project (Perentie) if the V8 was superior in any way to the 4BD1?.

The only field where a V8 may be useful is in some dry competition events, and then, delivered on a trailer.:D

All I was saying was the V8 110 shouldn't be bagged as much as it is by some of you Isuzu owners. It's a top motor and has many great points.

I'll put my hand up for a challenge if anyone wants to do it. I dont know if I'll win or lose. But I'll have a go.:)

And you can all enjoy the sound of the magnificent Rover V8 as it powers through everything the Isuzu will.........just with more fuel stops.:D:D:D

[justinc]

:o Setle petals!!:o

I've driven both, and I regularly maintain and repair both types here, and the key here is that they are different vehicles, each has its own plusses and minusses, so why worry? Each owner is individual and likes his or her 110 for different reasons.

I for one LURVE the V8 engine, but I PREFER to have a diesel.

That said, you may now resume normal programming...:eek:

JC

[D110V8D]

:o Setle petals!!:o

I've driven both, and I regularly maintain and repair both types here, and the key here is that they are different vehicles, each has its own plusses and minusses, so why worry? Each owner is individual and likes his or her 110 for different reasons.

I for one LURVE the V8 engine, but I PREFER to have a diesel.

That said, you may now resume normal programming...:eek:

JC

It was all in good fun Justin......at least from my side anyway.:D:D:D:p

I dont think I could live with myself if an Isuzu blew the doors off my V8!:o

[Blknight.aus]

oh.... an isuzu that can blow the doors off of your V8 huh....


:twisted:

I think I can arrange that.....

[D110V8D]

oh.... an isuzu that can blow the doors off of your V8 huh....


:twisted:

I think I can arrange that.....

Lets do it.......Can you organise it please Dave.....pretty please.:p:p

[Blknight.aus]

no problems....

we'll start with the 4t tow and then the 1.4m deep fording :twisted:

you didnt think Id be fair about this did ya?

:angel:

[sclarke]

Well ive driven both and the isuzu i drove had to be put in Low range to even get out of a Ditch......

[D110V8D]

no problems....

we'll start with the 4t tow and then the 1.4m deep fording :twisted:

you didnt think Id be fair about this did ya?

:angel:

I didnt think you would be fair.....but full of BS.........:angel::angel:

[sclarke]

I didnt think you would be fair.....but full of BS.........:angel::angel:

Are you claiming he says things that are crap???

Go easy....:):):)

[Blknight.aus]

given that the block and crank are rated to nearly 3 times what they are putting out in the rover format.. I dont think it would be too hard to grab a fuel pump off of one of the full blown truck jobbies and let that sit on a rover...


Dont think the diffs would last long....

but if someones got an isuzu (preferabley the turbo) pushing an lt95 they dont mind having the nipples worked off I reckon its in with a shot.....

[sclarke]

yeah, but now your talking modified ones....

Lets talk Stock ones

[DRanged]

We are going to enter ours in the 2008 Malaysian Rainforest Challange. It may not have the horsepower and RPM of the V8's but weve got more torques than you can throw a stick at. I think it will perform well in the above 3000cc diesel class. I can also count on the reliability and the fact it can basically run on any of the diesel mixes we are bound to use.

fingers crossed
Justin

[Blknight.aus]

yeah, but now your talking modified ones....

Lets talk Stock ones


well now that opens another kettle of fish then...

I'll take you on with a county or deefer 3.9 suzi but you can only have a rover with a v8 of the same year group.

(I mean thats only fair I dont get any electronics why should you)


But I'll allow any "tuning" you can do without replacing any parts AND I'll let you have your selection of Fuel IF I get to have mine else you have to run on the stock fuel that was available at the time. Any work must be doable in a garage with nothing more than a standard mechanics kit.

[taff]

Thought I'd start this thread as some insecure V8 owners just can't let it go and keep hijacking an unrelated thread!.I reckon the NA Isuzu is awesome, for all aspects of offroad driving, turboed even better!. The combination of high torque available at very low revs, makes it a delight to drive in challenging conditions. Open road touring is much enhanced with a turbo, but perfectly adequate in a NA, and of course, the fuel economy speaks for itself!. Isuzu reliability has been discussed at length in these and other forums, and I'm sure there are not many other 4WD engines with such a robust reputation. 110 County's were fitted standard with a Rover V8, so why would the ADF go through such an expensive project (Perentie) if the V8 was superior in any way to the 4BD1?.
The only field where a V8 may be useful is in some dry competition events, and then, delivered on a trailer.:D


surely by starting this thread you've raised your own insecurities about owning a big clattering diesel :angel: :wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

I only own a pair of small diesels, only one of them clatters...

and since when was 3.9l big?

[1103.9TDI]

Thread was meant pretty much tongue in cheek, with a bit of a wined up thrown in for good measure. Interesting to see some of the replies, I think we might have a challenge on here, although making it fair to everyones satifaction may be more of a challenge. I reckon Justinc's got the right idea.....and don't forget we are all Rover owners........


surely by starting this thread you've raised your own insecurities about owning a big clattering diesel

really!:D I'd call this a big clattering diesel

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

[D110V8D]

Thread was meant pretty much tongue in cheek, with a bit of a wined up thrown in for good measure.

Same here Gerry.....I know V8's are better I dont need to argue about it.:p:D:D:D

(Just kidding)

[Blknight.aus]

Ive just finished looking up the differences between the HP/torque curves of the 3.5l v8 and the 3.9 suzi...


Given the weight differences it would be a bloody close call

V8's got the top end but doing the 1/4 mile I think youd get the better launch from the suzi...

why dont we go see if we can book bathurst and race em properly......


Having never really gone into a full depth trial on the suzi Vs the V8 this has merit....

[taff]

Thread was meant pretty much tongue in cheek, with a bit of a wined up thrown in for good measure. Interesting to see some of the replies, I think we might have a challenge on here, although making it fair to everyones satifaction may be more of a challenge. I reckon Justinc's got the right idea.....and don't forget we are all Rover owners........



really!:D I'd call this a big clattering diesel

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

youre right that is a big clattering diesel, still prefer a petrol v8 tho. :D :angel:

[Bigbjorn]

I once worked with big diesels. They live in the bottoms of ships. If you cant climb into the cylinder then it is not a big diesel.

[EchiDna]

please note (to quote a few recent threads), 2.5l diesels are weak as ****, tiny little motors.... 3.9l are giant clattery monsters...

you really can't keep everyone happy can ya? :)

[rovercare]

Either way, they are both WAAAAAYYYYYY to underpowered, naturally aspirated:p

[RonMcGr]

I'm sure there are not many other 4WD engines with such a robust reputation. 110 County's were fitted standard with a Rover V8, so why would the ADF go through such an expensive project (Perentie) if the V8 was superior in any way to the 4BD1?.

FWIW, the ADF did have a few Disco V8's kicking around, at one time, so they are not completely biased :)

Ron

[alltrans]

Have both County Izusu and 3.9 RR V8 and I consider both excellent vehicles for the design intention.

The County with the Izusu feels bullet proof, great economy.

THe RR 3.9 V8, high on fuel but best described as a wolf in sheeps clothing, does all the country does (and vice/versa)

For highway/city use the RR displays sedan qualities and maintains high standard of offroad capability

For Highway use the County rides like a limo, adequate in the city driving and ruggard offroad capability

I think the LandRover engineers and designers have proven
near genius in making vehicles that present equal on/off road capability - as a cross over vehicle (latest buzz word) there is simply nothing like a LandRover product that provides genuine on road and genuine rugged offroad design

[justinc]

Have both County Izusu and 3.9 RR V8 and I consider both excellent vehicles for the design intention.

The County with the Izusu feels bullet proof, great economy.

THe RR 3.9 V8, high on fuel but best described as a wolf in sheeps clothing, does all the country does (and vice/versa)

For highway/city use the RR displays sedan qualities and maintains high standard of offroad capability

For Highway use the County rides like a limo, adequate in the city driving and ruggard offroad capability

I think the LandRover engineers and designers have proven
near genius in making vehicles that present equal on/off road capability - as a cross over vehicle (latest buzz word) there is simply nothing like a LandRover product that provides genuine on road and genuine rugged offroad design

Now THIS is what I was trying to say. Well put Alltrans.:cool:

JC

[Larns]

The V8 has no comparason on the road performance, my mates S3 stage 1 V8 chews up the highway, and it's is a suepurbly smooth engine when tuned properly.

But he struggles to get better than 17-18ltrs/100km and just dosn't have the off road ability that my Isuzu has.

Even towing his1.5T's worth of boat at 100km/h I only chew 10.5ltrs/100km, and it pulls it better through rough dirt roads.

It's just a shame about the 4 wheel drums and fuel consumption otherwise it'd be great to own.

Cheers

[justinc]

Just to add to what Alltrans started, (Well loosely related to it...)

I went out with two friends of ours today, up some pretty wet, muddy, rocky and slow tracks, one in a VERY grunty and used softdash LSE with airlockers and a 4.6 etc, the other with a D1 Tdi auto, twin True trac LSD's and Scorpion EVO2 suspension etc, and my chunky old RR. This is the first time I have used the 255/85 mudders, and deflated to 25psi they were fantastic.
Anyway, ALL of us got through and had different experiences along the way. LSE crunched a few times and I now have to weld the exhaust next week for him,( But doesen't it SOUND great!) the D1 had NO issues except a grin factor due to traversing the whole track on ROAD tyres, the true tracs are an amazing improvement. And my old girl just idled through, unfazed and fuss free.
All 3 of us enjoyed the day hugely, LSE had to put fuel in once, I wished I still had an autobox:(, and D1 just kept on keeping on.

There is no doubt a day spent in any other breed of fourby wouldn't have been anywhere close to the fun we had.

( PS Stooge and Timaus13, We were on a recce for OUR big day out, stay tuned, as these guys are coming too)

JC

[BigJon]

And my old girl just idled through, unfazed and fuss free.JC

So you took the wife?? :p:twisted:

[justinc]

So you took the wife?? :p:twisted:

Good one Bigjon,:p

I could never call my better half 'idle', She fusses sometimes but is usually unfazed at what I get up to.

And she's not old, shes younger'n me!!

:D:D:D:D

( She drives the RR most of the time too, I get pushed out of the way!)

[BigJon]

Ah, I rarely let my other half drive the Rangie. Besides, she prefers her Laser :eek:. Mind you, for a quick weekend trip down the highway, so do I. The fuel efficiency is unreal, particularly campared to the RR, not to mention A/C that actually works :D.

[MacMan]

why dont we go see if we can book bathurst and race em properly......

Shay and I have both done Bathurst laps in the Disco V8.

It was scary.

[rar110]

I was introduced to Landrover and the county 110 v8 as a result of a trip through the Tanami to the Kimberley. We also had a swb series 2 with Holden motor.

The county performed perfectly for the trip with 5 in the car and a heap of gear. The ser 2 also did pretty well with a zodiac, outboard and gear in the back. However, the county was the pick by a long way for driver comfort.

So I can't bag the v8 county. I love my 4bd1 and would not give it up. But there are some good value v8 county's that come around. One with an auto 3.9 v8 would be nice to drive on a long trip.

The owner still has the v8 county 15 or so years later. It is a good vehicle. Sadly he doesn't have it registered anymore as v8 rego and petrol cost was so expensive - and he can't bring himself to sell it. He gets it registered and takes it to moreton every couple of years. It was a write off vehicle and he rebuilt it using his ser 3 body after the chassis rusted away.

[Dougal]

What were the 0-100 times for a factory 3.5 and 3.9 rangie?

[justinc]

Here's another (Biased though:p) comment...

Today I drove my RR to town to pick up a customers 1994 softdash RR Vogue LSE. It is a 4.6 with Autronic and a great sounding exhaust etc, goes like anything and is full of leather etc, BUT...Here is the scary bit;

I hopped back in my clunky old LT95 4BD1 turbo intercooled 1992 beat up scratched up Rangie, and felt RIGHT AT HOME!!! Vibrating dash , stinky diesel and all!!:eek::eek:

I LOVE my Diesel.


JC

[1103.9TDI]

There's just something about the bulletproof security of a 4BD1 that feels just great. It fits like a worn in pair of work boots that you know won't let you down.

'I LOVE my Diesel' too............

[Dougal]

Here's another (Biased though:p) comment...

Today I drove my RR to town to pick up a customers 1994 softdash RR Vogue LSE. It is a 4.6 with Autronic and a great sounding exhaust etc, goes like anything and is full of leather etc, BUT...Here is the scary bit;

I hopped back in my clunky old LT95 4BD1 turbo intercooled 1992 beat up scratched up Rangie, and felt RIGHT AT HOME!!! Vibrating dash , stinky diesel and all!!:eek::eek:

I LOVE my Diesel.


JC


What're you using for motor mounts? Mine doesn't shake the dash at idle. I'm using 3" by 1.5" industrial AV mounts. Fit the rangie V8 mounts but much softer.

[Blknight.aus]

nahh his is one of those mechanics specials...


so worn out and busted up that anything that needs to be taken off to get to anything else is only held in with fasteners finger tight so it can be easily gotten to.

[justinc]

nahh his is one of those mechanics specials...


so worn out and busted up that anything that needs to be taken off to get to anything else is only held in with fasteners finger tight so it can be easily gotten to.

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

I'll have you know that my RR is not at all like that! In fact if I had some good digitals I'd show ya!!:D

( Besides, its only a loose dash binacle...)

JC

[Blknight.aus]

:P and the reason its loose is?








cause youve had to have it apart in the past right?

[rovercare]

:P and the reason its loose is?








cause youve had to have it apart in the past right?

But I bet he hasn't siliconed his hoses on;)

[justinc]

:P and the reason its loose is?








cause youve had to have it apart in the past right?

No. It has survived many KM of corrugated and horrific roads by me and the previous 2 owners. Finally shaken/ broken loose. But yes, it has been TOOO long like that...:angel:
I guess I could SILICON it back on!!:p:p
JC

[Blknight.aus]

neither have I, whats your point......... :P









just cause Ive alluded to the fact I might do it if nothing else worked............ or if I was never going to see the vehicle again.... (damnit we need a notcholantly whistling smiley)

[BRINDO75]

so when is this challenge id like to enter but my 86 county has a fuel injected 3.9 v8 and an auto. hahahahahahahaha the powerrrrrr.

[1103.9TDI]

The poor soul was followed, for the rest of his life, by a large semi, towing a larger tank of petrol........:D

[DRanged]

so when is this challenge id like to enter but my 86 county has a fuel injected 3.9 v8 and an auto. hahahahahahahaha the powerrrrrr.

Went camping on the weekend.

Us in our 4BD1T powered Rangie on 35'' tyres towing a trailer.

A good freind in his 94 3.9 V8 Disco auto also on 35'' tyres no trailer.

It was fairly even although we were not testing the fact, but the Isuzu had the edge up the hills.

The 3.9's dont like tyre mods etc. I would bet the manual would handle it better.

Justin

[rovercare]

Went camping on the weekend.

Us in our 4BD1T powered Rangie on 35'' tyres towing a trailer.

A good freind in his 94 3.9 V8 Disco auto also on 35'' tyres no trailer.

It was fairly even although we were not testing the fact, but the Isuzu had the edge up the hills.

The 3.9's dont like tyre mods etc. I would bet the manual would handle it better.

Justin

Did your disco mate have 4.11's??

[andrew e]

so when is this challenge id like to enter but my 86 county has a fuel injected 3.9 v8 and an auto. hahahahahahahaha the powerrrrrr.

when you have 450K on the clock like me. (with the origional head gasket):D










Andy

[rovercare]

when you have 450K on the clock like me. (with the origional head gasket):D

Andy

Local had 750k on his 3 1/2 rover in a county....unopened:eek:, was a farmer to

It was clagged though and NO compression:D

[Blknight.aus]

when you have 450K on the clock like me. (with the origional head gasket):D










Andy

so time for the running in service then huh?
:twisted:

[andrew e]

so time for the running in service then huh?
:twisted:



I did the running in service at 430K-its turbo and 10 psi boost.

Saying that I'm only assuming it hasn't been touched in the first 330ks as thats when i bought it. I doubt it has ever been apart, as it still had the origional air filter element in it (what was left of it) dated 1986.


Andy

[c.h.i.e.f]

Hahaha was digging through threads and thought I would have a read again...stage1 3.5v8 leg out of bed at 200k that was with my pop driving it so can only imagine the huge amount of revs he was doing :angel:
County 4bd1t that has 400k still going strong I will not hesitate to go against any NA v8 powered landy I'll run 35's to make it fair :D

[cal415]

Does that include mine?

[cal415]

and i can run 37s to make it fair ;)

We can start with a few sand dune drags haha

[c.h.i.e.f]

and i can run 37s to make it fair ;)

We can start with a few sand dune drags haha

Oh forgot about you hahaha if I can get it going harder than it was before we will test each out and post back for everyone to see and maybe even a video...no doubt your thing is gunna monster most 4wds:angel: I did say NA though so I can't argue lol

[cal415]

haha, yep, but i am pretty keen to bolt on a SC down the track so i may not fit that category....

[c.h.i.e.f]

Oh plz just go twin turbo kit and be done with it lol Oi and yours is 5.7l so shhhh :D

[85 county]

I thought this was about 110’s Isuzu’s vers 3.5 V8s

High way driving is about the same loaded up with hills wind etc. The V8 gets away when light.

Around town the V8 gets my vote if it wasn’t for its drinking habits.
Sand dunes (big ones) the V8 has the edge but not by much.
Everywhere else the Isuzu wins hands down

[justinc]

I thought this was about 110’s Isuzu’s vers 3.5 V8s

High way driving is about the same loaded up with hills wind etc. The V8 gets away when light.

Around town the V8 gets my vote if it wasn’t for its drinking habits.
Sand dunes (big ones) the V8 has the edge but not by much.
Everywhere else the Isuzu wins hands down

i think that given a turboed isuzu 110 the 3.5 wouldn't stand a chance,:(.

JC

[cal415]

I would have put my 3.5 up against any NA Isuzu on the beach without a doubt, and probobly most turbo'd ones....

[justinc]

I would have put my 3.5 up against any NA Isuzu on the beach without a doubt, and probobly most turbo'd ones....

ah, but there are turboed ones, and then there are TURBOED ones....:cool::D


jc

[1103.9TDI]

........I mean there it is, a vehicle that is comfortable for a family of up to five with a reasonable amount of gear. Way ahead of its time in terms of suspension. Reliable with what could be considered a minimum of service, but old fashioned service at that, no plug ins here! Generally regarded as the ultimate when it comes to bush work. Something real you can hand down to your son for him to enjoy, all with less than 12ltrs per 100kms fuel consumption.
The V8 is a fun afternoon having a barbeque and chewing up sand dunes, whereas the Isuzu is a full on self-sufficient adventure lasting weeks with out any other human contact at the best fishing camp ever.

[c.h.i.e.f]

I have to admit my fuel consumption was terrible at around 18L/100km having said that I do not care as it is only a play toy,I do not drive it in a way that is conservative,fuel settings are at a stupid level....I do know that it is well over 500Nm will be dynoing some time this year..

[85 county]

i think that given a turboed isuzu 110 the 3.5 wouldn't stand a chance,:(.

JC

I tend to agree. But this thread is about out of the box on the day. Not aftermarket tack on or we would end up hopelessly comparing Nos injected 5ltr twin supercharged V8s with compound turboed BD6s which is an endless argument and revolves around how deep your pockets are.
For a drive in drive out turbo install of about 4.5K on a BD4 you could have a drive in drive out 3.9 cam thor manifolds and box even with an auto. And that would suck up most of the Isuzu’s advantage.
Quite simply the V8 has the advantage of revs which is hard to compensate for on the long high sand dunes. But then there’s the fuel.
Considering the amount of times I try to clime long high sand dunes the Isuzu suites me much better ( and cheaper)
But there is a niggling voice saying i would love a 5lter v8 twin supercharged with Nos etc. maybe when i win LOTTO.

eather way. neather are PUMAs so we are all way ahead in the Game.

[isuzurover]

...For a drive in drive out turbo install of about 4.5K on a BD4 you could have a drive in drive out 3.9 cam thor manifolds and box even with an auto. And that would suck up most of the Isuzu’s advantage.....

I briefly owned a stock 3.5V8 '85 county when I first bought my 4BD1 '87 county.

The 3.5 made the na 4BD1 seem slow.

After I turboed my 4BD1 (at a cost of ~$1500 all up), I stored Bojan's v8 county which had a fresh 3.9 short motor with 3.5 heads and carbs. The 3.9v8 seemed like a slug in comparison to the 3.9Tdi.

So yes, stock for stock the v8 goes better, but has almost double the fuel economy and almost half the engine lifespan.

[85 county]

I briefly owned a stock 3.5V8 '85 county when I first bought my 4BD1 '87 county.

The 3.5 made the na 4BD1 seem slow.

After I turboed my 4BD1 (at a cost of ~$1500 all up), I stored Bojan's v8 county which had a fresh 3.9 short motor with 3.5 heads and carbs. The 3.9v8 seemed like a slug in comparison to the 3.9Tdi.

So yes, stock for stock the v8 goes better, but has almost double the fuel economy and almost half the engine lifespan.



Agree
But then twice the gear box life etc etc we could go on and on.
but as i said i like my NA Isuzu, LPG gives it just that little bit more to make it nice around town, ( smoothes it out and revs nicer) for me to be happy. i had a quick drive of a nice v8 at Melrose, smooth nice but had to use a lot of foot where i would expect the Isuzu to idle up.
at the end of the day, the Isuzu cost more new so it must be better.