Replacement fuel pumps research

[PhilipA]

I did a bit of desk research today as to what fuel pumps are available locally for RRC 3.9 and Disco 1.

The VN pump has the correct spec as has been listed in the earlier post.
So the numbers are AC Delco EP105AU
I looked at cross references for this and found
Goss GE033 available at Gimmie Car Parts for $103.33
Fuel Miser FPE250A for $102.49 fprom Gimmie
It doesn't seem worthwhile to bring them from the USA as they are about USD 75-85 plus freight.
The pictures I saw suggest that they are about the same as the Rover pump. You may need to change wires.
I will bet that the Goss etc are chinese pumps, and may be the same as on Ebay at $65 or so. But that should not be an absolute nono. I had a look and some of the Chinese companies supply to European makers.
Regards Philip A

[Utemad]

I don't know what brands are better quality but the Bosch you refer to in the other thread was only $106 from memory.

[PhilipA]

I just had a look at the old post.
Its by HAL and is titled V8 Discovery Fuel Pump Problem.
The Bosch pump reported was F000TE1772 an di checked the price on Gimme Auto parts, who are usually cheap at $132.33 plus freight.
I have not found this cross reference anywhere.
I mght buy an Ebay one as a spare.
Regards Philip A

[Utemad]

That Bosch part number sounds right. I rang Bosch to find a local supplier and was told

Repco
Coventry
Bursons (??)

As per the thread you refer to Repco was $106 and Coventry $110.

However the Bosch guy also said that Bosch did not set a RRP so the supplier can charge whatever they like.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=36549&highlight=bosch+fuel+pump+F000TE1772&page=4

[Dunnie]

There is a huge variation in the quality of products pouring in from China. If they are manufacturing to a quality company's specs. e.g. Bosch; then the quality is tops. If they are just making a rip-off copy to flood the El Cheapo retailers then they make some absolute crap. In my personal experience it is worth a few bucks extra to get a recognisable brand name on the box even if it is made in the same factory as the Lucky Dragon brand fuel pump. I do love the Chinglish instructions though, like 'Please make sure that all the hoses are friendly and that the volts run one way'.

[tony]

Hi All

I notice these refer to the classic models, has any one

done any research on what will fit a P38....mates pump

has just started to play up

Also are these in the tank or can you plumb them in

external, the vn and Bosh ones for the classics's that is

Thanks

Tony

[Utemad]

They appear to be talking about the P38 pump here and this is the same pump.

The replacement pump sits in the carrier inside the tank. So you have some pulling apart etc to do but it is very simple.

http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/fuelpump4.html

[tony]

excellent tar muchley :)

T



They appear to be talking about the P38 pump here and this is the same pump.

The replacement pump sits in the carrier inside the tank. So you have some pulling apart etc to do but it is very simple.

http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/fuelpump4.html

[PhilipA]

Yes the P38 pump appears similar to the RRC 3.9.
The number is 10 different.
Mine is A1474-1 and the p38 is A1484-1.
But the pump seems physically the same, the retention collar at the bottom looks the same, the input filter looks the same., and the position of the inlet looks the same.
The P38 appears to have a bleed pipe from the outlet of the pump to the fuel return .
The yanks did away with this with no apparent problems.
I took a few photos today if anyone wants me to email them.
Regards Philip A

[4bee]

Philip, why not bung them on here, as I'm sure quite a few of us would be interested?:)

[tony]

Philip, why not bung them on here, as I'm sure quite a few of us would be interested?:)


I'll second that bung em up Phil

t

[PhilipA]

OK they are in my gallery.
I took them mainly to send to the Walbro pump guy in the US, so he could identify a Walbro pump, so sorry that I don't show the sock and fixing arrangement.
The top fixing is by a right angle bracket with a hole , which goes onto a grommet around the outlet pipe, just above the picture!LOL
I bought this pump off I think an AULRO member on ebay. He lives in Cairns and converted a V8 to a TD5.
I cannot remember his name, so please do not be offended if you read this.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

This is the ebay one, a Chinese cheapie but looks like it fits.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VN-VP-VR-VS-FUEL-PUMP-BRAND-NEW-1-YEAR-WARRANTY-SAVE_W0QQitemZ320166846449QQihZ011QQcategoryZ10235 7QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Regards Philip A

[Quiggers]

I think I posted this about 6 months back...when I was having fuel 'issues'...

got a pump out of a VN from the local wrecker for $50,

been in there for six months, no dramas...

easy job to do, too!

GQ

[mills rover]

yes phill i would be interested thanx mate

[GrahamH]

Thanks Philip - you've obviously done quite a bit of research on this. Good work! Have you, perchance, found the pressure and flow rate specs for the original pump for the 3.9Lt V8 version in Discovery (and the P38 Rangie for that matter)? The eBay pump for the Commodore from "performanceworld1" looks like a good unit to carry as a spare even if it's not going to stand up in the long term.

[PhilipA]

Have you, perchance, found the pressure and flow rate specs for the original pump for the 3.9Lt V8 version in Discovery (and the P38 Rangie for that matter)?

No but I am 99% sure that they are the same as the Commodore pump. I know the pressure is the same as the operating pressures are the same. In fact the Commodore regulator is just a mirror of the 3.9 regulator.
Early 38A is virtually the same pump.
However be careful as Bosch 38A and D2 have the regulator in the tank, and 3Bar operating pressure. I noticed an assembly on Ebay for $1300+.!!!!
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

OK here are the pictures.
4712

4713

4714

4715

4716
Regards Philip A

[GrahamH]

Thanks for the pointer to eBay, Philip A - I have purchased one of the commodore fuel pumps as a spare to take on trips - just in case. The pump arrived promptly via Express Post on Friday and it appears to be a direct drop-in replacement for the LandRover pump.

The package contains the pump itself, as well as the filter sock, wiring harness (pump connector to bare ends 150mm long), a rubber sleeve which I assume is a silencer to slide over the pump body, a pair of small hose clamps and a moulded rubber seal which would be used in a commodore.

I have photographed the Borgg pump (right or lower) alongside the LandRover unit (left or upper) which I removed from my tank about 18months ago after it failed and it looks almost identical. Certainly the Discovery specific parts, the rubber moulding which sits between the end of the pump and the base of the carrier and the fuel hose fit fine.

From the seller's website the pump is sold as a Borgg pump "E F P 033" spec'd as follows:

SPECS:
APPLICATION PRESSURE: 350 kpa
MAX RELIEF PRESSURE : 750 kpa
FLOW RATE : 22.0 GRAM/SEC
FUEL: PETROL
DESCRIPTION: ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP
VEHICLE APPLICATION:INTANK ( ONLY SINGLE PUMP SYSTEM HOLDEN VN-VS 6 & 8 CYL )
DIAMETER: 43.5
HEIGHT : 130.6
INLET OUTER DIAMETER : 19.08 mm
INLET TYPE : BEAD END
OUTLET OUTER DIAMETER: 7.95 mm
VOLTAGE : 12V

The seller is "performanceworld1" and the buy now price was $55 plus $7 postage. It is listed as having a one year warranty, and the price is listed as a 2 week special but looking through the seller's feedback, this may be a marketing strategy as all previous purchases I found were at the same price. Nonetheless his service was extremely prompt and he kept me well informed of my order's progress via email.

My choice for replacing the pump back 18 months ago was to purchase a complete assembly from JB LandRover in the UK at $248 (£UK101). My contact there was extremely helpful and tried very hard to find me a pump motor only without success. I actually used the pump motor from the assembly in my original frame as it was metal whilst the new one appears to be nylon. I've checked the Borgg pump fits that brand new frame OK.

The Borg pump has no markings on it. The LandRover pump (I suspect it's Bosch) carries two numbers - 25165432 and A2895-2. The Borgg has a filter gauze inside the fuel entry orifice and the filter sock has a gauze packing to help it retain its shape better, neither of which are present in the LandRover pump.

Short of trying it in the vehicle (which is a little tricky as I have a set of "scuba" gas tanks mounted to the floor above it) I'm happy that it will at least make a good spare and I have no reason to believe it won't be a permanent repair should I require it.

Thanks again for your research and info, Philip.

[Michael2]

Soon after converting my RRC (1988 3.5 EFI) to LPG, I drove Melb-Perth-Melb. On the return leg the car would not run on Petrol (fuel pump not working), and in Port Augusta, I fitted a Comodore fuel pump in-line without removing the pump in the tank. That worked fine and I was able to continue to the Flinders Ranges for a scenic detour.


When I got home I discovered that the LPG installer had cut the fuel pump feed wire to extend it to the new aux fuel tank position. The wire had about 5 connections on it and none were soldered! I replaced the wire and the in-tank pump worked again. However I decided to leave the comodore pump in situ, as storing it would probably cause the internals to dry out and fail.


This mod now gives me the peace of mind that I have a back up fuel pump, that I know can draw through the tank pump if required.

If you're doing long distances or remote areas, for the extra $100 it's worth having a 2nd pump working in tandem.

[matbor]

That pump looks pretty much the same, probably would carrier a short length of fuel hose too though, as I think it is hard to get the original hose off the carrier without cutting, well mine did :) !!

Matt.

[4bee]

http://www.borggperformance.com/fuel_pumps.htm


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320172620113&ih=011&category=102357&ssPageName=STORE:PROMOBOX:NEWLIST#LIST


I do like that large horizontal filter.:)

Thanks for posting all this detailed info, lads. Much appreciated.

[DaveS3]

Great info.
I always carry a spare pump, and have had to use them a few times now.
Need to purchase one for the new car now and at $55 you can't go wrong.

Dave.

[4bee]

E-Bay inv. shows them as being the same.


Seller Information: performanceworld1
borggperformance@iprimus.com.auAt that price it won't hurt to have one roll around in the back for a couple of years will it. :eek: :D


I suppose it would be prudent to briefly put 12v across it, just to make sure at least the motor runs ok before packing it away.

[4bee]

I ordered mine last Sunday on E-Blag. It was acknowledged as a sale. Fine.
Two days later I queried them re not getting a tracking number which they said they would send.


They claimed Pay_Pal payment had not gone through & was "Pending" WTF! No explanation & sufficient funds were available. ???

Eventually it was posted 'Express Post' yesterday & I was supplied a Tracking Number. Hooray sez me.

Checked often but it was not showing on AP's Data base. Huh?:confused:

I chased it up again today & after to-ing & fro-ing I'm told by the supplier it had been delivered to my PO Box.


Long-ish story short. AP do issue a tracking No. on the parcel, BUT, it doesn't go on the data base. WTF!
Seems only 'Express Post Platinum' gets recorded on there & that is a Courier delivery anyway.

So, despite the supplier stating that they give a tracking no. it is superfluous as it isn't customer accessible on Express Post.

With me? :D

I have advised them of this as it seems that they may be under an illusion that it can be tracked.

Generally, other than the above it was good service & Pay-Pal created a delay for some unknown reason. Something new is it?


Just hope I don't need it now, but it is cheap insurance if I do one day.:D

[DaveS3]

I ordered mine and received it within two days.
No problems as all - for $55 its a great buy to have as a spare.

Cheers
Dave.

[4bee]

I would have got mine overnight as well.
It was the muckin' about that dragged it out.

Bad luck if my old one was fritzed & I was waiting for a replacement.

The last sentence in my e-mail was

**** NB Have you been able to determine what the 'Pay-Pal Payment Pending' was all about yet? That accounted for more delay & as I mentioned, I have not struck this before. Is it something new?

Their reply was "Thank you,
Regards
Chris".

So not much help at all. I just hope they weren't playing funny buggers.

[100I]

I've just begun to experience problems on petrol and I think you've just saved me a lot of time:)... this weekend I should get a chance to investigate & I'll be checking the integrity of the wiring before diving in too deep ( I have what sounds to be the same tank arrangement)

Soon after converting my RRC (1988 3.5 EFI) to LPG, I drove Melb-Perth-Melb. On the return leg the car would not run on Petrol (fuel pump not working), and in Port Augusta, I fitted a Comodore fuel pump in-line without removing the pump in the tank. That worked fine and I was able to continue to the Flinders Ranges for a scenic detour.


When I got home I discovered that the LPG installer had cut the fuel pump feed wire to extend it to the new aux fuel tank position. The wire had about 5 connections on it and none were soldered! I replaced the wire and the in-tank pump worked again. However I decided to leave the comodore pump in situ, as storing it would probably cause the internals to dry out and fail.


This mod now gives me the peace of mind that I have a back up fuel pump, that I know can draw through the tank pump if required.

If you're doing long distances or remote areas, for the extra $100 it's worth having a 2nd pump working in tandem.

[Blknight.aus]

E-Bay inv. shows them as being the same.

At that price it won't hurt to have one roll around in the back for a couple of years will it. :eek: :D


I suppose it would be prudent to briefly put 12v across it, just to make sure at least the motor runs ok before packing it away.

ERmmm.. no it wouldnt but I wouldnt want it rolling around. Wrapped in grease proof paper with a goodly amount of preservative grease and in a dustproof box would be my call and I wouldnt just run 12v through it Id at least give it some fuel to suck on and a little pressure to operate against as running those pumps dry even for a short time is enough to make you a $55 paper weight.

[4bee]

Yeah, I wasn't really going to let it float around in the back, Dave. [rolleyes smiley]:D

By run, I meant a 1 second flick across the batt. not 30 secs or more, but if it needs fuel for that, so shall it be.

[Blknight.aus]

the second unstated but probabley more important reason for putting fuel and a restritction on the the outlet is.....

if its there as a back up pump incase the primary fails you now you know it actually pumps and doesnt just make acoustically pleasing whirrring noises... :)

Imagine how annoyed youd be if you did all the work to replace it in a nice aircon/heated workshop, filled the tank with fuel (with a suitable draining receptical on hand if needed) only to find out the pump whirrs but doesnt make any pressure so now you have to go get another pump (which is just conveniently on the shelf behind you in the parts store) so now you have to do all that work all over again... (been there...)

now imagine that your in the middle of nowhere youve got an imminant storm warning and instructions that the smart people are going to be elsewheresville in an hour or 2 youve screwed the pump in got it all hooked up and..... nada.... your nearest backup spare parts place is who knows how far away (and probabley closed). (havent been there but Its not outside of feasable knowing my luck)

[4bee]

Sort of like...............

4bee.... "That's a nice quiet pump".

Mate.... "It should be, it ain't pumpin' fuel out".:D

Yeah, point taken.

[sclarke]

If the Commodore one fits, so does a Volvo 240

Plenty in the Wreckers and its a Bosch unit..

[WildOne]

Anybody know of any alternative fuel pump options for TD5 owners?