RedBook vs Reality ?

[flagg]

Hi guys,

As i'm in the market for a Defender / County I've been looking around at prices etc. Up until today I hadn't really considered a County as I don't know a huge amount about them.

The redbook price (www.redbook.com.au) for a 1986 3.9D is :

National average price - private sale* $3,300 - $5,200

Now they say this is the national average for 3.9 County. Not what they think its work, but what they have been selling for.

A lot of the 3.9 Countys I have seen, have been /advertised/ for considerably more. (some twice that, infact).

So apart from the "its worth what anyone will pay for it" argument, does anyone have an idea where the discrepancy is ? Could it be that rusty crappy ones are killing the stats or are the sellers settling for considerably less than advertised ?

cheers guys,
dec

[Ben]

Now they say this is the national average for 3.9 County. Not what they think its work, but what they have been selling for.

What it sold for and what was written as the "purchase price" on the Notice of Disposal / Rego transfer can be wildly different.

The stamp duty on transferring the rego is calculated from the sale amount written on the Rego transfer form. The Notice of Disposal sent in by the seller would give them a sale amount to cross reference.

i imagine this is where they get the "private sale" figures from.

[chosen]

I concur.

The Toyota Hilux sell for several thousand dollars more than the red book value in SA - it is the same for many of the quality 4x4's out there that I've looked at too.

[flagg]

The stamp duty on transferring the rego is calculated from the sale amount written on the Rego transfer form. The Notice of Disposal sent in by the seller would give them a sale amount to cross reference.

Ah this makes a huge amount of sense. I figured it must be something like that.

[rumman43]

I noticed same discrepincy when i was searching for my defender...Someone told me thatdue to low volume of cars sold each year that is too hard to get an accurate average in these books..
I looked for approx 3 months checking all the online sites daily..eg trading post..got a good feel for what was selling for what ..
when a bargain popped up, and they do I jumped on it.
I was lucky enough to get an 2002 Xtreme with all the fruits and tingles for 28000..
best of luck
ab

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think redbook is an excellent guide. Generally its right to within a couple of k. I don't doubt though that sometimes cars go for significantly more or less occasionally.

Having said that when you look at carsales it is normal to see the majority of the cars significantly above the redbook value. However it's important to differentiate between asking and selling.

I've seen it time and time again where people start out asking 10k above redbook, but often the last time you see the car advertised it's at redbook.

That's life.

[WhiteD3]

The other thing is the base price. I sold a Liberty earlier this year for 26.5k. Redbook gave a range of 25-28k depending on mileage so I wasn't unhappy. I started asking 29k.

When you're in the 20s-30s a thousand or two makes little diff but when you're talking 3k and couple of grand is a huge diff. At the end of the day people want as much as they can get and will always aim high while the buyer aims low.

I think redbook is accurate and these days, due to its accessibility on the net, might even define the market price somewhat.

[JDNSW]

What it sold for and what was written as the "purchase price" on the Notice of Disposal / Rego transfer can be wildly different.

The stamp duty on transferring the rego is calculated from the sale amount written on the Rego transfer form. The Notice of Disposal sent in by the seller would give them a sale amount to cross reference.

i imagine this is where they get the "private sale" figures from.


I agree that this is the most likely reason for it. Another problem is that particularly with cars such as the 110 County, the price can vary quite a bit with, for example, whether it has factory air ( = no vents, less value) or four or five speed box and this is not differentiated simply because there are not enough sales, and you find all the ones you even consider are above the redbook price. A similar effect can happen with any car this old - the good ones are a lot higher priced than the bad ones, but also a lot fewer, so the ones you would even consider buying are a lot higher than the average price.

But I still think that the main reason is the under reporting of prices in private sales - and this happens more in the lower price ranges where you can get away with it because there are so few traded.

John

[mojo]

Sorry, but i have to disagree with those of you who think redbook is an accurate guide - at least for Counties/Defender's anyway. From my experiece earlier this year, the prices in Redbook are several thousand less than what they are going for in the market. I missed out on several cars because I thought they were over priced - a 95 Defender I was looknig at went for $13500, Redbook price was $7,400 - $9,400. And as you say, the Redbook price for an Isuzu County is around $5000 - I was looking at one that went for over $10000. The same thing happened with a couple of other cars I looked at. Of course, the condition of the car plays a large part, but the cars I was looking at were not in immaculate/pristine condition, nor did they have ridiculously low KM's

If you're prepared to wait, you may eventually find one that comes in close to Redbook prices. I ended up with a 2000 Defender Xtreme with quite low km's for $22000, only just over the Redbook guide - most Xtremes of similar vintage were going for mid to high 20's, some even in the low 30's, but I was able to negotiate as this one had a bit of rust and needed new tyres - plus he'd been trying to sell it for a while.

So I guess it all depends on how desperate you are! Bargains do come around, but if you can't wait, then like they say at Nike - JUST DO IT! :D

Cheers

Sean

[LRHybrid100]

I was told that Redbooks and the like are supported by the INSURANCE Companies - SO its in their interest to undervalue cars so payouts are lower!!!

Makes perfect sense. Robbing B'stards

My D110s "Market" value is based on the Redbooks price of $22k - you try getting a good MY02 D110 Xtreme for that.

LRH

[incisor]

what the 2 above said.... been my experience as well.

[ATH]

I wouldn't have even bothered trying to sell my MY02 Extreme if all I could have got for it was Redbook prices. At the time there were various possible buyers whinging on this site about high prices being asked, but I priced mine at what I believe was consistant with the ads. on sites like carsales.com etc.
Got 38 grand without any hassle but it was in excellent condition with low kays.
Pity it had a computer as well!
Good luck with the hunt.
Alan H.

[LRHybrid100]

I wouldn't have even bothered trying to sell my MY02 Extreme if all I could have got for it was Redbook prices. At the time there were various possible buyers whinging on this site about high prices being asked, but I priced mine at what I believe was consistant with the ads. on sites like carsales.com etc.
Got 38 grand without any hassle but it was in excellent condition with low kays.
Pity it had a computer as well!
Good luck with the hunt.
Alan H.

Mate - MY02 Xtremes are worth their weight in GOLD

Best D110 built - upgrade computer / dash etc and the Sals rear end

[isuzurover]

I think redbook is an excellent guide. Generally its right to within a couple of k. I don't doubt though that sometimes cars go for significantly more or less occasionally.

Having said that when you look at carsales it is normal to see the majority of the cars significantly above the redbook value. However it's important to differentiate between asking and selling.

I've seen it time and time again where people start out asking 10k above redbook, but often the last time you see the car advertised it's at redbook.

That's life.

For cars less than 10 years old that sell in high volumes (e.g. hiluxes and corollas) I agree with you. But for older cars (e.g. 110 countys) - I think the numbers are a bit rubbery, because of the low sales volumes and likelihood of people writing even lower amounts on the rego documents.

[duncanw]

I it’s not limited to Landrovers, my previous car was a 2004 Mazda 3, with full dealer service history and everything. The redbook price for private sale was $16k, so I put it on the market for $14k and got no response, in the end I dropped it to $12k to just break even with the loan I had outstanding… someone got a very good deal on that, deprecation on that was about $3,300 a year.

The same with the Disco I got a few months back, the book price was $7,500 and I picked it up for $10k. I had a look at the cars going for 7k – 8k but you don’t want to even drive them never mind buy them…

[mojo]

Yeah, redbook seems to undervalue some makes (i.e. Landies), but over values others ... :confused:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think perhaps the problem is these companies base their prices on auction results, and then add a percentage for private sales. Cars that are a bit less common or with something special about them do better privately. At the auctions, people don't care so much.

I used to work for a fleet company, and each month we disposed of hundreds of vehicles. The redbook was our bible.

[redrover3]

I it’s not limited to Landrovers, my previous car was a 2004 Mazda 3, with full dealer service history and everything. The redbook price for private sale was $16k, so I put it on the market for $14k and got no response, in the end I dropped it to $12k to just break even with the loan I had outstanding… someone got a very good deal on that, deprecation on that was about $3,300 a year.
Gee, 12k sounds cheap for a 2004 mazda 3, we were looking at them recently and they seemed to be more the 16k for that model in EC. But, as has been said here, asking price and selling price aren't necessarily the same.
Tony