Oz Crime Show last nite

[landyfromanuthaland]

Did anyone catch that oz crime show last nite with the guy in WA that murdered 4 people with an axe and his life sentence was overturned by a judge saying he could be rehabilitated as he wasnt the usual stereotypical type murderer and is apparently due for parole in 2011,

Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant both murdered in a premeditated fashion and there cards are stamped never to be released, why is this guy in WA so special, he planned his murders, he new full well what he was doing.

Anyone find this a bit wierd?

Laugh and the world laughs with you, fart and you stand alone!

Andy

[FenianEel]

Did anyone catch that oz crime show last nite with the guy in WA that murdered 4 people with an axe and his life sentence was overturned by a judge saying he could be rehabilitated as he wasnt the usual stereotypical type murderer and is apparently due for parole in 2011,

Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant both murdered in a premeditated fashion and there cards are stamped never to be released, why is this guy in WA so special, he planned his murders, he new full well what he was doing.

Anyone find this a bit wierd?

Laugh and the world laughs with you, fart and you stand alone!

Andy

I think he once was on the WC Eagles rookie list :twisted:

[loanrangie]

Pretty horrific crime, i can sort of understand killing 1 person ( not in this instance ) but to bludgeon to death 2 helpless little girls with a tomohawk while they slept is about the lowest act i can think of- just because the woman wouldnt put out for him, then he tried to fake being attacked by trying to sever his penis with a filleting knife :eek: Left to rot in jail i reckon.

[incisor]

prime candidate for a shaka zulu timber implant imho...

[mudmouse]

Well I dunno what it's like to be a Judge but if your working life was spent defending people as a solicitor or barrister, even when the're guilty as sin, earning a wage most people only dream of, living in an environment with people of similar business and economic standing, then being appointed to a position whose ulimate doctrine is to 'preserve human rights' before retiring on a HUGE superannuation benefit and then be offered more dollars for presiding over inquiries, commisions and reviews.....why would you consider what happens in the real world? You are not answereble to ANYONE. So why would you care about the victims or their family. Unless of course you or your family is directly affected by crime...

Now I know there are some excellent Judges and Magistrates and not all solicitor and barristers are sell-outs, but really, if those within the profession thought these sort of decisions weren't acceptable they'd push to do something about it...but no one does.

There was a time when magistrates were drawn from members of the comminuty but then the gaols got full, lawers became politicians and wow! it all changed.

[JDNSW]

......

There was a time when magistrates were drawn from members of the comminuty but then the gaols got full, lawers became politicians and wow! it all changed.

While I share your views on lawyers in politics - I suspect that your view of the past is a bit rose coloured. Current prison numbers, in NSW at least, is the highest it has ever been as a proportion of population. This is one of the reasons why judges are reluctant to impose long sentences - the parole boards, faced with space shortages in prisons, will just let them out again.

John

[barryj]

Did anyone catch that oz crime show last nite with the guy in WA that murdered 4 people with an axe and his life sentence was overturned by a judge saying he could be rehabilitated as he wasnt the usual stereotypical type murderer and is apparently due for parole in 2011,

Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant both murdered in a premeditated fashion and there cards are stamped never to be released, why is this guy in WA so special, he planned his murders, he new full well what he was doing.

Anyone find this a bit wierd?

Laugh and the world laughs with you, fart and you stand alone!

Andy

The justice king;

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[mudmouse]

You got me John:D The rosie spectacles are a favourite but that was also before the summary offences legislation was largely repealed - you used to get locked up for being intoxicated in public, now it's just tolerated . It's pretty hard to get a full time gaol term these days and when they do, they really deserve it. I'm surprised to read the per capita rate of incarceration is higher now than in the '70's. Maybe if the summary offences act and size 10 legislation were still about and effective, the problems would stop there rather than letting the punters keep pushing the boundaries.

[mudmouse]

The justice king;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Sudden-impact-10.jpg

...Man's got to know his limitaions..

[landyfromanuthaland]

Surely the familys of the 4 victims murdered are entitled to some and this is an old story justice, 4 people including 2 young girls one only 5 had there heads caved in with an axe, this would have to tug at the heart strings of any judge to lock him up for good surely they could have ousted someone less meaningful so they could accomodate him, the victims will never get a chance to fullfill there lives but the murderer who had never murdered before and for all intensive purposes possibly a good person and could be rehabilitated so he can live his remaining years in society, big load of you know what I think, funny how the law never works in the victims favor.

[Chenz]

While I share your views on lawyers in politics - I suspect that your view of the past is a bit rose coloured. Current prison numbers, in NSW at least, is the highest it has ever been as a proportion of population. This is one of the reasons why judges are reluctant to impose long sentences - the parole boards, faced with space shortages in prisons, will just let them out again.

John

The reason that goals are full is because people who were convicted of lesser crimes such as break and enter and car stealing (for the 20th time) should be out doing productive work such as bush regeneration along our river systems instead of getting tattoos and learning better techniques from hardened crims on how to break more laws. imagine the Hawkesbury river without baloon vine and blackberries choked banks.

I am not advocating chain gangs but with electronic devices they have these days surely this mass of labour could be put to better use.

As for the axe murderer let him rot. As for parole boards. If they reckon someone is rehabilitated enough to be let out, they go guarantor for them and they can do the time with them if they re-offend.

[JDNSW]

You got me John:D The rosie spectacles are a favourite but that was also before the summary offences legislation was largely repealed - you used to get locked up for being intoxicated in public, now it's just tolerated . It's pretty hard to get a full time gaol term these days and when they do, they really deserve it. I'm surprised to read the per capita rate of incarceration is higher now than in the '70's. Maybe if the summary offences act and size 10 legislation were still about and effective, the problems would stop there rather than letting the punters keep pushing the boundaries.

There are a lot of people locked up for relatively short periods, I think mainly related to offences related to drugs, typically possession or burglary. These short termers are the vast majority in prison - problem is, they keep coming back! And the gradual change in the last ten or fifteen years to "truth in sentencing" has meant that they are on average in longer, even if the sentences are lighter. (one of my neighbours ten kilometres away nearly lost his house in the January fire - it is unoccupied while he is a guest of Her Majesty - he got about three years for some illegal crops largely for his own use, and it wasn't the first time)

Major crimes like murder are pretty stable from what I've heard (with short term fluctuations), although one of the problems is that the rate of reporting of some crimes has little to do with their frequency, so that an apparent increase in a crime might simply mean there is better reporting (and vice versa). Murder is probably one of those crimes which is reported pretty fully - a body or some one missing always needs explaining (same for serious assault), whereas a lot of property crime is not reported for various reasons, including that the victim doesn't expect anything to be done same applies to rape, where some suggest the reporting may be as low as 10%, and of those reported the conviction rate is pretty low too. Which may be for several reasons - the obvious one is that a lot of the reported rapes (and the ones not reported) are not really rape, but another possible reason is that both the victims and juries view the potential sentences as excessive, and are reluctant to report or convict - this is a drawback of harsh sentences!

I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect that a good start would be to crack down on juvenile offenders by making parents in some way responsible.

One interesting point I heard recently, which probably applies in any other part of the law as well - according to the police minister a couple of weeks ago, 75% of drivers in NSW have never had a point deducted - in other words, 100% of offenders come from 25% of drivers - and I would guess that of that 25%, probably 75% of offenders come from 5%!

I know that locally a single arrest has been known to reduce the burglary rate by 90% for six months!

John

[kaa45]

While I share your views on lawyers in politics - I suspect that your view of the past is a bit rose coloured. Current prison numbers, in NSW at least, is the highest it has ever been as a proportion of population. This is one of the reasons why judges are reluctant to impose long sentences - the parole boards, faced with space shortages in prisons, will just let them out again.

John

I bet the figures for 1788 to 1840 would disagree :wasntme:

[PhilipA]

In NSW the government has just announced that Police will issue on the spot fines for "minor" offences such as wait for it shoplifting.
I wonder how many of those fines will be paid.
DOH!
They cannot even keep up with unpaid traffic tickets.
Regards Philip A

[JDNSW]

Maybe not...:angel:
High proportion of the population were convicts
But how many were actually in prison? :D:D

Number of convicted felons to population would be high :eek:

I think you are absolutely correct - very few convicts were in prison, basically only the ones who re-offended once in NSW. Most of them were "ticket-of-leave" men (and as today, overwhelmingly men!).

John

[olmate]

I saw the show and it sickens me to know that good tax dollars are used keeping these mongrels alive. He should have been dragged out into the street and given some of his own treatment. :mad:

[BigJon]

Hmmm....the trouble with that is that it puts you on the same level as the perpetrator of the crime :angrylock:

But Gee, you would feel better afterwards!

[Outback 1]

sorry but i think that they should bring back the death penalty.....especially for these types of offences. in this day and age and with the technology available to ensure the identity of the perpetrators they can't get it wrong like they sometimes used to.positive dna id should be enough to ensure they never see the light of day again............!

[Grizzly_Adams]

I'm not keen on the death penalty, as NM says it brings us down to their level.

Having said that I've given it some thought and I reckon they should bring in lobotomies for repeat offenders of serious crimes and then use them as labour to clean up the roads or other menial tasks.

They're not dead so we aren't lowered to their level, they're doing something useful for society and they are unlikely to repeat offend again :angel:

[Mick-Kelly]

bullets are surprisingly cheap compared to custodial care ;) a lot less re-offenders also. A friend of mine works trying to rehabilitate youth criminals in London. According to her about less than 5% are workable with.

[JDNSW]

sorry but i think that they should bring back the death penalty.....especially for these types of offences. in this day and age and with the technology available to ensure the identity of the perpetrators they can't get it wrong like they sometimes used to.positive dna id should be enough to ensure they never see the light of day again............!

I agree with NM - the death penalty puts you on the same level as them. And technology does not ensure you have the right man (nearly always a man!) any more than the introduction of fingerprinting did. It just improves matters, probably nowhere near as much as is often touted. To say "they can't get it wrong" is simply incorrect - there are all sorts of possible errors such as contamination of or mislabelling of samples, quite apart from the possibility of outright fabrication of evidence. Even if DNA itself is as certain as fingerprints, you still have the question of where the sample came from, for example.

And in any case - are you certain that twenty or more years in gaol is a lesser penalty? As far as the cost goes, the US experience is that capital punishment is not cost effective - it ensures a long drawn out appeal process is carried out even where there is no chance of success, just to postpone the sentence being carried out.

John