Z9 oil filter

[JamesB]

Seen a few threads for spin on oil filter conversions on series LR's lately. Got me thinking , has any body seen a Z9 oil filter conversion for a 300 tdi ? Seems like it might be a way to reduce service costs as a Z9 filter is less than half the price of the standard one.
What do you 300tdi owners think ?

Cheers James.

[weeds]

How much are you paying for your oil filter

I changed the oil and filter last week and from memory the filter 'ryco' was around $13....I think the salesrep mentioned the repco brand was around $9

What the go with a spin type filter

[langy]

There isn't an adapter necessary - z9 and z1159 (Coopers number) or z89 (Ryco, from memory) share the same thread.( And, of course, I may be wrong but the last time I looked the Ryco catalogue listed them as the same thread size )

Although here is the relevant point - my Disco has the 2 inch lift on the springs. And that's where the problem lies. The Z9 is longer, and if it weren't for the lift I daresay it would get damaged if you did full articulation in the bush.

The good news is that I fitted a z9, and have done some interesting stuff with my disco - no damage yet. And, for $9, I carry a z9 spare.

[rick130]

as Langy said, the Z9 is the same thread but the length of the can means that the front diff will hit the bottom of the filter in hard off road conditions. Not maybe, will.
The bumpstop will compress more than 20mm to allow this. Some have discovered this to their peril. It can be fitted and the top of the diff ground to compensate but it will still contact.
A Z89 (the listed Ryco filter for a 300Tdi) is just a short version of the Z9. IMHO I reckon the OE ERR3340 filter (approx $14.50) is a better filter anyway, Ryco filters have only average filtration specs. A better filter in the Z9 size is a Purolator L3001, or even better is their Pure One (PL3001 ??)
If ultimate full flow filtration is required in a Z9 size filter, the Donaldson P169071 and Fleetguards equivalent are so much better in their filtration specs, flow rates and contaminant capacity than a Ryco or equivalent, but you literally pay dearly for them. (over $30 each)

[Bushwanderer]

IIRC one difference between the LR filters & the Z9 is that the LR filters have an anti-drain valve, while the Z9 does not. I don't remember the specs for the Z89.

[rick130]

IIRC one difference between the LR filters & the Z9 is that the LR filters have an anti-drain valve, while the Z9 does not. I don't remember the specs for the Z89.

sorry, but the Z9 does have an anti-drain back valve and anyway, it is mounted vertically in a 300Tdi so you will only be supporting the oil column in the upper oil passages, the filter is always full.
BTW, most ADBV's aren't very effective, often verging on useless. (an effective ADBV drives the cost up too much ;) )

[cafaas]

If its the 300TDi your after then can't say for sure.. My '96 Disco V8i uses the Z89 (or variations of - Ryco, Coopers, others).
I do mine every 10,000km with every oil change and never have issues - (except the oil running running down my arm to my elbow - even after draining for an hour).

[pawl]

I use the Baldwin B74 for the oil, from memory $15. Will only use Fleetguard or Baldwin filters.

[Bushwanderer]

sorry, but the Z9 does have an anti-drain back valve and anyway, it is mounted vertically in a 300Tdi so you will only be supporting the oil column in the upper oil passages, the filter is always full.
BTW, most ADBV's aren't very effective, often verging on useless. (an effective ADBV drives the cost up too much ;) )

That's good! Thanks for the correction.:)

[SSmith]

where is the best place to get baldwin/fleetguard filters from?

[pawl]

Do you have a COLRAIN near you?. Most truck part supply stores are agents for them, even some diesel injection service stores are agents, you may have to check your local phone book

[sclarke]

Do you love your engine????

Use Genuine. only a few $$$ dearer, but correct for the Job.
Do you use Kmart cheap oil or Penrite or similar?

If you put a ryco on you might as well use cheap oil and change it every 20k....... because the filtering and oil is that low in quality that you must not care...

Would you put recaps on it??
Would you put recycled grey water in the radiator?

i like my cars to last so i use quality oil, quality filters and i dont use grey water in the radiaitor.

Ryco dont have a anti drain back valve, so when you 1st start it in the morning the oil takes longer to get to the bearings... hence they wear quicker...

If you want the 300tdi to get to 300,000km then look after it..

I'll reflect on another engine brand...
Volvo cast iron block Alloy head engines... B21-B230 as used in 240 volvo right up to the 940...
Great strong engine capable of over 800,000 km with no major work... use a ryco filter and when you start them, listen to the 5 seconds of clatter... use a Volvo filter $20 and when you start it, not one bit of clatter...
A dealer in geelong did a test in the 70's on the Ryco filter V the Genuine filter...
Both cars were preped for the 1979 Round Australia reliability trial. One was destined to fail... they put the same effort into the body and suspension, but used Non genuine Shocks, filters and non genuine oils (volvo use GTX2 in engines) both faired well.... but the non genuine one used more shocks, did a rear diff and the engine when it came back was so worn the thing needed aero start to fire... extreme driving in heat and dust, but it proved a point.... genuine does work better....

A comment from the late Peter Brock
Most oils come from the earth, Frankly i wont use it...

i wont go to that extreme, but i will use genuine parts where it matters and i use genuine filters and i use quality oil.....

Rant over....
Clarkie

[B92 8NW]

Do you love your engine????

Use Genuine. only a few $$$ dearer, but correct for the Job.
Do you use Kmart cheap oil or Penrite or similar?

If you put a ryco on you might as well use cheap oil and change it every 20k....... because the filtering and oil is that low in quality that you must not care...

Would you put recaps on it??
Would you put recycled grey water in the radiator?

i like my cars to last so i use quality oil, quality filters and i dont use grey water in the radiaitor.

Ryco dont have a anti drain back valve, so when you 1st start it in the morning the oil takes longer to get to the bearings... hence they wear quicker...

If you want the 300tdi to get to 300,000km then look after it..

I'll reflect on another engine brand...
Volvo cast iron block Alloy head engines... B21-B230 as used in 240 volvo right up to the 940...
Great strong engine capable of over 800,000 km with no major work... use a ryco filter and when you start them, listen to the 5 seconds of clatter... use a Volvo filter $20 and when you start it, not one bit of clatter...
A dealer in geelong did a test in the 70's on the Ryco filter V the Genuine filter...
Both cars were preped for the 1979 Round Australia reliability trial. One was destined to fail... they put the same effort into the body and suspension, but used Non genuine Shocks, filters and non genuine oils (volvo use GTX2 in engines) both faired well.... but the non genuine one used more shocks, did a rear diff and the engine when it came back was so worn the thing needed aero start to fire... extreme driving in heat and dust, but it proved a point.... genuine does work better....

A comment from the late Peter Brock
Most oils come from the earth, Frankly i wont use it...

i wont go to that extreme, but i will use genuine parts where it matters and i use genuine filters and i use quality oil.....

Rant over....
Clarkie

Well said.

I use Kubota genuine filters on my Disco however as they are of an industrial quality that filter down to 3-5 microns. They are developed for a filthy indirect injection Japanese engine... so they excel on the far cleaner TDIs.

With the anti-drain back valve, the last genuine ERR3340 I bought didn't have one. Because of their vertical (300TDI) or semi vertical (200TDI) location, they will always remain full and do not need an anti drain back valve.

The Kubota hydraulic system filter does not have an aftermarket equivalent. It is mounted vertically, screwed onto the hydraulic pump from the top. It is essential that this one has an anti drain back valve.

[pawl]

As long as you stick with good oil,never a cheap one, regular changes (which doesn't always mean take it out to the recommended Km interval) and a good brand of filter you wont have any worries. Genuine are fine, they are there to protect your engine during the warranty period, albeit more expensive, Baldwin, Fleetguard, Donaldson etc have all made their names protecting engines $100,000+. The money you save on filters you can put in to using better oil or a bypass filter.
Kubota filters that filters down to 3 microns, great but, yikes how could they possibly be a full flow type? Bypass filters filter down to 1-3 microns and they only allow a small volume of oil to pass through them, because of the restrictive medium used, they need to be used in conjunction with the full flow type.

[rick130]

<snip>
Kubota filters that filters down to 3 microns, great but, yikes how could they possibly be a full flow type? Bypass filters filter down to 1-3 microns and they only allow a small volume of oil to pass through them, because of the restrictive medium used, they need to be used in conjunction with the full flow type.

I agree. The only full flow filter media I know of that filters down to Beta2=6 (6 micron nominal, ie 50% of 6 micron particles in the relevant ISO multi-pass test) is Fleetguard's Stratopore, Donaldson's Synteq and Baldwin's Microglass, and the Donaldson and Fleetgurd/Cummins media have it all over the Baldwin media for flow and capacity.
Anything below that is technically a hydraulic filter and will mostly be in by-pass in a full flow engine oil application.


If you put a ryco on you might as well use cheap oil and change it every 20k....... because the filtering and oil is that low in quality that you must not care...

Oh c'mon clarkie, the OE filter only filters in the region of 27-30 micron nominal, about the same as any general Ryco oil filter. FWIW, Ryco had the major OE supply contracts for the Big 4 in Oz for nearly forever. The AFL1 Motorcraft filters I used to buy by the carton for my 351C were Ryco Z9's rebadged ;)

Anyway, a full flow filter doesn't really matter a damn as I feel real filtration doesn't actually occur unless you run a by-pass filter. A full flow filter only catches the bits if you have a component failure, it doesn't clean the oil. I've heard of some tests done where the full flow filter was eliminated form an engine and the subsequent oil tests only showed a normal statistical variation in results, they couldn't determine if any extra wear occurred or not.

<edit> forgot to add that IMO the air filter is more important than the oil filter. Much more important. It'll be interesting to see the results when Ben posts up the air filter tests.
Oh, and I'd rather run genuine Volvo filters too, as IIRC they are/were Mann-Hummel. They are one of the big three filter manufacturers worldwide and damn good at it too.

[Utemad]

I had a bit of a search but couldn't get a good answer.

So who wants to explain to me what a bypass filter is?

Does it just take some of the oil and filter on the side therefore removing some of the contaminants while the normal filter is allowing full flow/pressure?

[marko66]

Hi All

I thought the reason that ryco took the z115 of the market was because they had put the anti drainback valve in the z9 - so I must be wrong somewhere.

The best bypass filter setup i have seen was on a toyota belonging to a friend of mine he had set up the bypass lines and then used a fleetguard cummins spin on filter they are extremely large and about 25 dollars and at 5500km his oil was brown and not black the filter heads are easy to buy too apparently.

Hope this helps

Regards Mark

[4bee]

I thought the reason that ryco took the z115 of the market was because they had put the anti drainback valve in the z9 - so I must be wrong somewhere.It became the the Z89A with Anti- Drain Back Valve.

[isuzurover]

I had a bit of a search but couldn't get a good answer.

So who wants to explain to me what a bypass filter is?

Does it just take some of the oil and filter on the side therefore removing some of the contaminants while the normal filter is allowing full flow/pressure?

Pretty much. See diagram:
http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/bypass_dia_600px.jpg

Rick - efficiency results coming soon - a bit of "real" work to get underway before then...

[Utemad]

Thanks Ben.

Just what I thought.

No plans to fit one to my V8 though. Unless one falls into my lap.

[4bee]

Unless one falls into my lap.

You mean if the glove box lid lets go again?:D

[Utemad]

You mean if the glove box lid lets go again?:D

Nahhh I've never been a passenger in the Disco except when I was buying it ;)