Info please

[olbod]

G'day.
I have not had a problem yet with my in tank fuel pump
I am planning a lot of big desert trips next year.
My wife hasn't seen alot of them and would like too.
Now, I understand that you can put an inline pump in
as well as the in tank unit. Thats fine but can I put an
isolating electrical switch on the inline pump and have it in reserve ?
Will the in tank pump feed the fuel thru the turned off non pumping inline unit ?
If the in tank pump fails and I switch over to the inline,
will it pull fuel thru the dead pump ?
I could just have two pumps in tandem but if one fails
you wouldn't know about it if the other pump works on
its own.
Reason that I am thinking along these lines is because
it would be alot of trouble to remove the false floor and
draw system, to replace the intank pump out the back
of Giles or somewhere.
The system I am thinking about would provide a backup and peace of mind in case of a failure. My wife is not
in perfect health so I would like to have reliable systems in place.
Most of the time we will be one vehicle out unless we
are joined by some of you blokes along some of the routes ?
Tar.
Cheers.

PS: this fuel pump system will be attached to a long range tank.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

There was thread on just this the other day,,,
in Tech??

someone said the inline electric WOULD pull through the in-tank pump---

did I add it to common threads:eek:???



edit;
yuk yuk :)

try here, post 20,,,
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=44523&page=2

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Is the in-tank fuel pump not managed by the ECU?

[graceysdad]

I believe if you fitted a Repco/Facet type pump out side your tank this will pull through the existing pump, I have done a similar method and it works fine, excellent back up, just watch your pressure you may need to fit a pressure regulator.

[rovercare]

Is the in-tank fuel pump not managed by the ECU?

Yeeaaaahhhh, and but you would still use the same wiring

I wouldn't pump through a pump, its madness, just buy a spare intank, disco's already have a hole in the floor, so swapping is eassy as, RR's didn't, but I judt did one the other day, sut square hole.....cut bigger square out of wreck's floors..... goo and screw and you have a nice little lid

[rovercare]

I believe if you fitted a Repco/Facet type pump out side your tank this will pull through the existing pump, I have done a similar method and it works fine, excellent back up, just watch your pressure you may need to fit a pressure regulator.

They come with a reg. from factory;)

A facet/repco pump?? are you talking the square little ticker pumps? if so they are low pressure pumps and not suitable for EFI

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yeeaaaahhhh, and but you would still use the same wiring

I wouldn't pump through a pump, its madness, just buy a spare intank, disco's already have a hole in the floor, so swapping is eassy as, RR's didn't, but I judt did one the other day, sut square hole.....cut bigger square out of wreck's floors..... goo and screw and you have a nice little lid

but he doesnt want to remove the rear storage bins---:angel:

[rovercare]

but he doesnt want to remove the rear storage bins---:angel:

Ahhh, yes, but if he's that worried about failures, it'd be best to buy japanese or stay at home:D

If its that much of a concern, best to remove the intank pump, replace with some hose and fit the external pump and carry a spare or 2 in parallel

Either way they'll have to come out at some stage after a pump failure:eek:

[Utemad]

I know what you mean about having a fully loaded Disco complete with cargo drawers have a fuel pump failure :(

At least mine happened at work with all the right tools at hand (no spare pump though).

[Blknight.aus]

I would not run the pumps in series like your talking about doing Id carry a spare external pump (assuming that for some reason you dont want to have to pull the gear out to get to the intank pump and replace it with an aftermarket intank pump) and the pumbing to fit it up.

Mock Fit everything and make sure it all fits, dummy the wiring across and fit blanking plugs where needed, Personally I would cut and reroute the original wiring so that it went to where the new pump was going to live and plug in then run a cable much like an extention cord from that location back to the current intank pump. This allows for easy and convenient isolation of the intank pump so it doesnt go kablooie and prevents leaving open live electrical plugs hanging around.

In theory theres now no new joins in the fuel lines so the integrity is retained the electrics are set up ready to go and you have a ready to mount pump in a box. you dont have to worry too much about a regulator as the one on the back of the fuel rail should take care of it unless you do something like install a high flow high pressure drag car type pump but given the cost of those I dont think that likely.


IMHO It is better to carry the right kind of intank pump and fit that up rather than running the pumps in series

[olbod]

Rovercare, many years ago, I was out in the desert and a bloke had perished alongside a jap 4x4. He stunk.
In 77 I was out to the north of Innaminka, and came across an elderly couple stuck in sand. They had been there for 4 days. The Bloke was under a tree stuffed.
I pulled them out and they recovered ok back at Innaminka.
I dont take the desert or others welfare lightly.
Bugger staying at home, thats a stupid thing to say !

My concern about break downs is not for myself but
for my wife. If she took sick on the track, there's no guaranty that the Flying Doctor could land or that I
could get help in time, if I was broken down, which I
dont plan to be.
I dont expect that she will have any problems so I dont see that she should be denied the trips that she wants to do.
The fitting of a spare fuel pump is not a big deal in itself and a cheap alternitave if it can be worked out.

I have new a forty litre alloy fuel tank that I didn't fit
to my boat. I might fit that under the false floor where
the back seats were, with is own fuel pump.
I could put in taps along the line to isolate one or the
other tank ? V8's are thirsty and petrol is not available
in all areas.
If I went that way I could save money by retaining
the original tank instead of putting out for a Longranger.
Thanks, Guys for the replies.
I will sort it.

[rovercare]

Rovercare, many years ago, I was out in the desert and a bloke had perished alongside a jap 4x4. He stunk.
In 77 I was out to the north of Innaminka, and came across an elderly couple stuck in sand. They had been there for 4 days. The Bloke was under a tree stuffed.
I pulled them out and they recovered ok back at Innaminka.
I dont take the desert or others welfare lightly.
Bugger staying at home, thats a stupid thing to say !



Sigh.......It was tongue in cheek;)

I'll leave you to your pumps in series:(

[Blknight.aus]

.
I have new a forty litre alloy fuel tank that I didn't fit
to my boat. I might fit that under the false floor where
the back seats were, with is own fuel pump.
I could put in taps along the line to isolate one or the
other tank ? V8's are thirsty and petrol is not available
in all areas.



thats a brilliant idea. Just make sure to put a safety vent cap on it and plumb up the vent to outside the cabinspace.

in theory you should be able to plumb it up with QD's on the old lines and the new ones... same trick with the wiring and your laughing.

Depending on how your time schedule is and your location I'd be happy to help you out.

[olbod]

Rovercare, I have no problem with tongue in cheek
stuff. If you had added a smiley, I would have recognised it.:D
I value your contributions in answer to to my question tho. Tar..

Blknight, the tank that I have is stainless not alloy,
like I said.
It is a Cruisemaster, fully vented. baffled, with a sealed
lid that can be replaced with a sender unit.
Because this vehicle is a keeper, I would have no quarms about cutting a hole in the side of the body and fitting an outside filler !

I have been collecting parts for a few months now so
that I can take it off the road and do the complete rebuild altogether. Its only done less than 168K's all
up, so will be better than new when its finished.
I may even fit the Longranger as well. I will tally weights and look at suitable raised suspension. That
way I may not need to carry spare jerries. Not going to fit a winch, I dont think. Iv'e never needed one before.
Water and stuff will be onboard the camper.
I have a Command cruise control thats going in as well.
We fitted one to a Mates old petrol Pajero and it works fine.
Been thinking about the intank unit accesability.
I was planning to put the new frig on the floor and
build the false floor and draw system around it, keeping weight down lower. If I did this I would only need to
take the frig out to get at the pump. I could carry a spare anyway.
I dont want to use a roof rack with a petrol V8.
At this stage we are planning to be in the deserts travelling, for a few months.
A rough plan. Mackay across to Birdsville looking as we go. My wife hasn't seen the Diamantina area.
Then across the Simmo, which she has seen, up the old ghan and Finke to the Alice. We have friends with cattle stations in the area.
Then around the Gunbarrell and those areas to the south that I have not seen.
I would like to come back across the Nullabor on the track beside the rail line, if I can get permission.
If not, up thru WA and back down the Tanami, which
she hasn't seen. Been around the Canning and north west a few times over the years, dont need to go back.
Then back across the northen part of the Simmo below the Plenty Hwy, which neither of us has seen.
Whats it called, is it the Madigan ?
As you can see there is very little sealed roads involved, and good preperation required.
I used to go one out before. Just fill the tanks and tucker box, thro in the swag and go.
The good old days.
These days you have to have UHF, epirbs. phones,
maps, GPS, tons of recovery gear, tyre repair kits, compressed air tools and football sox.
Bugger that, I would rather have a reliable truck.
I have the ARB airlockers to go in, so I will be able to pump up my tyres. Might even get a couple of those
orange thingy's that you put under wheels, to get out of sand. They could strap to the bullbar. Save chopping Mulga, eh.
The only reason that I am fitting a frig, is so I can carry her medication and Chook food !
Cheers.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If I went that way I could save money by retaining
the original tank instead of putting out for a Longranger.
Thanks, Guys for the replies.
I will sort it.
My inderstanding of the EFI V8's is that they are a bit messy about changing tanks.

It is far easier to transfer the fuel to the main tank than plumb a secondary into the engine supply system.

If the secondary is inside the cab, you wouldn't even need a pump, just a tap (or fuel shut off solenoid) to drain the fuel into the main tank by gravity. Most people, tap into the breather line adjacent to the fuel filler neck.

Diana

[olbod]

[quote=Lotz-A-Landies;631990]My inderstanding of the EFI V8's is that they are a bit messy about changing tanks.

It is far easier to transfer the fuel to the main tank than plumb a secondary into the engine supply system.

If the secondary is inside the cab, you wouldn't even need a pump, just a tap (or fuel shut off solenoid) to drain the fuel into the main tank by gravity. Most people, tap into the breather line adjacent to the fuel filler neck.

Diana[/quote

You could be right.
I dont know anything about these efi v8 systems, as so far I havent had a problem.
I will thoroughly investigate it.
I have plenty of time to look into it and do it properly.
Thanks.

[rovercare]

Ahhh, yes, but if he's that worried about failures, it'd be best to buy japanese or stay at home:D



I did add a smiley^^^^^see:)

[rovercare]

My inderstanding of the EFI V8's is that they are a bit messy about changing tanks.

It is far easier to transfer the fuel to the main tank than plumb a secondary into the engine supply system.

If the secondary is inside the cab, you wouldn't even need a pump, just a tap (or fuel shut off solenoid) to drain the fuel into the main tank by gravity. Most people, tap into the breather line adjacent to the fuel filler neck.

Diana

Switching tanks won't bother them at all, as they are constant circ. systems, no air blocks will hang around

[Blknight.aus]

Blknight, the tank that I have is stainless not alloy,
like I said.
It is a Cruisemaster, fully vented. baffled, with a sealed
lid that can be replaced with a sender unit.
Because this vehicle is a keeper, I would have no quarms about cutting a hole in the side of the body and fitting an outside filler !



That may serve the purpose of the safety vent, Which in some circumstnaces is mandatory if the tank is inside the main cabin space of the vehicle.

The safety vent is only there to deal with the expulsion of fumes/fuel in the event of a fire. Same as the ADR for having one on an LPG tank.

[olbod]

I did add a smiley^^^^^see:)


So you did !
I beg your pardon.
I cant offer any excuse for missing it.
Cheers.

[olbod]

Yes, thats what I thought Dave.
Trevor Harris, here at Landrover Spares is one of the most knowedgeable men in the country when it comes to Landies, I will see what he say's about using 2 fuel pumps and seperate tanks.
I rather like the idea now. If its do able, I might look into a bigger marine tank instead of the 40 litre that I
have. Its not very big when you look at it.
All up loaded weight will be the thing but a second tank would be located amidships.
I have no doubts about the V8 pulling a camper across the dunes.
Havent seen the dunes around the gunbarrel area but I
expect that they are not much different than anywhere else. The thing pulls my Bro's tandem car trailer, with about 4 tonne on it, okay and an offroad camper without heaps of crap on board wont be anywhere near that.
I will talk to Trevor tomorrow and let you'all no what he
say's.
Cheers.

[olbod]

Well, I spent some time with Trevor Harris this morning.
He says that using 2 tanks and pumps is do able but
more trouble than its worth. For a start you need extra
solenoids and more importantly you need to run a 2nd
return fuel line back to the 2nd tank ! Complicated
and not worth it.
Putting the second tank in is okay but use a lowpressure elect, pump, to pump fuel to the main tank.
He has done this to a number of his Landies in the past. Fair enough.
He unboxed a pump for me to look at from Landrover.
Its the main pump only and half the price of a complete
unit. If your sender unit is okay, you just need to replace the pump and not the lot !

With the longrange tank, the trapdoor is in the wrong place. You have to cut a trapdoor in floor centre.
So thinking about it on the way home, I decided that
I could put the frig and 2 draws side by side on the floor, instead of one wide draw as I had planned.
On the false floor I could put a removeable floor panel
above the middle draw.
Wallah, just lift that panel, remove one draw and there
is the trapdoor over the pump !
So with 2 spare pumps for the price of one complete
unit, I am laughing all the way to the shade of a tree to replace it. We could have a brew up and make a
picinic of it , eh.:p
Cheers.

[Utemad]

He unboxed a pump for me to look at from Landrover.
Its the main pump only and half the price of a complete
unit. If your sender unit is okay, you just need to replace the pump and not the lot !

If you search on here you will find a few threads regarding this.

A Bosch pump to suit is about $105 and is just the pump (not the whole carrier). Same as you described.

[Blknight.aus]

I am laughing all the way to the shade of a tree to replace it. We could have a brew up and make a
picinic of it , eh.:p
Cheers.

right up till the fumes hit the fire your using to boil the billy

Then your going to have a right proper brewup.

I have some excelent recipies that go quite well with long handled jaffle irons and burning vehicles.

:)


hope it all works for you and as a side so long as you plumb them before the pump (use a VN external pump) the switchover solenoid from dual tank diesels (nissans and toyotas mainly but Milspec LR 6x6's) will do the job for you with minimal additional faffing and they will switch over the fuel sender as well.

[rovercare]

hope it all works for you and as a side so long as you plumb them before the pump (use a VN external pump) the switchover solenoid from dual tank diesels (nissans and toyotas mainly but Milspec LR 6x6's) will do the job for you with minimal additional faffing and they will switch over the fuel sender as well.

Nissan's fill the main from the Aux tank;)

You'll also need 2 as the return line needs to be switched aswell:eek: otherwise you'll be filling the main tank, which won't be any good if its got a dead pump:D

[Blknight.aus]

those solenoids (not all nissans fill the main from the aux) have 2 inlets 2 returns and one line to the pump and one return line from the engine and an electrical change over as well that handles the sender feed (doesnt work with 2 wire senders only the ones that run a resistor to earth setup.)

so all you need is a normal diesel setup on each tank that has a sender, a pickup and a return and you can plumb it all to that one solenoid off of the one pump....

If you like I'll grab a part number off of one of the ones at work.

[rovercare]

those solenoids (not all nissans fill the main from the aux) have 2 inlets 2 returns and one line to the pump and one return line from the engine and an electrical change over as well that handles the sender feed (doesnt work with 2 wire senders only the ones that run a resistor to earth setup.)

so all you need is a normal diesel setup on each tank that has a sender, a pickup and a return and you can plumb it all to that one solenoid off of the one pump....

If you like I'll grab a part number off of one of the ones at work.

What Nissan's switch tanks?? seriously?? I know patrol's don't, but that's all I've played with

[Blknight.aus]

some patrols do, I get about one every 2 months who want a new one off of the shelf of rover parts cause theirs isnt feeding from the aux tank any more...

wether its a standard thing or an aftermarket Kit I dont know but the one I did do (he actually bought a solenoid with him and just wanted a hoist) looked profesional enough to be factory.

I dont know enough about patrols to know what year/make it was and didnt ask but if its any help it was on the one thats got the tow hitch under the round recovery loop (same bolt spacing as a pintle hook mount by the eye) a silver rear bumper with the steps in it, spare on the rear door, and a fuel tank alongside the chassis and rear propshaft and a bigger one under the back behind the diff.

the solenoid mounts up in front of the tank in the guts of the vehicle.

If I see it again I'll get the details for you.

[rovercare]

some patrols do, I get about one every 2 months who want a new one off of the shelf of rover parts cause theirs isnt feeding from the aux tank any more...

wether its a standard thing or an aftermarket Kit I dont know but the one I did do (he actually bought a solenoid with him and just wanted a hoist) looked profesional enough to be factory.

I dont know enough about patrols to know what year/make it was and didnt ask but if its any help it was on the one thats got the tow hitch under the round recovery loop (same bolt spacing as a pintle hook mount by the eye) a silver rear bumper with the steps in it, spare on the rear door, and a fuel tank alongside the chassis and rear propshaft and a bigger one under the back behind the diff.

the solenoid mounts up in front of the tank in the guts of the vehicle.

If I see it again I'll get the details for you.

Nah, that's enough, it's a GQ or Y60 if you talking to Nissan, GU Y61 ( the later one definately feed Aux-Main, will find out at brew time tonight about the GQ.......To ex-Nissan mechs here working as fitters:D

[Blknight.aus]

I really should pay more attention to the forigers I do at work rather than just palming them off on generic system operations then file 13ing the info and experience....

[rovercare]

I really should pay more attention to the forigers I do at work rather than just palming them off on generic system operations then file 13ing the info and experience....

Nothing wrong with knowing abit about ALL makes of 4wd, never know who who may be helping on the side of the track:D

[rovercare]

Was it a COIL cab chassis, apparently the only Y60 that came from factory with duel tanks was the coil cab and they were switched seperately