boat advice opinions...

[5teve]

Hi Guys...

the time has come and SWMBO has decided we need to get a boat...

im obviously distraught with this :D honest....

we have been looking around and have seen a couple and we are having a hard time trying to decide between the two (prior to taking them for a spin)

the first is a 2003 stacer 575 Ocean runner cuddy cabin ally boat with a 140 2 stroke in nice condition and less that 100 hours (according to owner) its 5.75m with an overall length of just over 6m

the second is a 1997 carribean reef runner 6.3m with lockable vee berth we think it has 400 hours on it (will find out tomorrow) with a 175 2 stroke and we know its been very well looked after as its a friend of a friend who owns it.

we want to do a bit of towing, bit of fishing and bit of recreation tripping about.. we like the stacer cause its 6k cheaper than the carribean but the carribean is a steal at something like 6k under priced.

lots of info on the carribean available but not a great deal on stacers... and there are hardly any stacers of this size for sale.. so its either good and people keep them, or they are crap and people never bought them.

so for you knowledgeable people, could you give me some pro's and cons for them both please? all opinions we have had so far have all been undecided!

Thanks again for your invaluble views :angel:

Steve

[Quiggers]

5teve, what is your overall use? Offshore, or rivers etc? Or a mixture?

Also what type of motors (brand) do these boats have?
Whatever the brand, I'd have the motor(s) properly checked by a known outboard pro.

Boats of this size should also have double axle trailers, and a power winch would be very handy.

GQ

[Pedro_The_Swift]

this guy
http://www.fishingmonthly.com.au/boats/stacerboats/575/575.html
gives the stacer a wrap,,,

the carrabean is TWICE the weight of the stacer,, plus 400 hours is a lot on any outboard,, its a nice looking boat,, not a lot of deadrise,, but its weight(nearly a Tonne) should help it there,,

is the Stacer a EVO hull?

[5teve]

5teve, what is your overall use? Offshore, or rivers etc? Or a mixture?

Also what type of motors (brand) do these boats have?
Whatever the brand, I'd have the motor(s) properly checked by a known outboard pro.

Boats of this size should also have double axle trailers, and a power winch would be very handy.

GQ

The stacer has a 2 stroke Tohatsu which get some nice reviews, nothing special, just good. the carribean im not sure on yet as we havent got round to have a proper look as the owner is away... we have got a guy we can use to give full mechanical on it before we buy anyway so will do that.

usage wise, it will be a mix of offshore and river, fishing probably pulling a donut occasionally and just general running about going to rottnest etc etc.. Mixed use!

yes one has a dunbier twin axle trailer (the carribean) and the other has a trailit twin axle trailer. not sure about power winch.


this guy
http://www.fishingmonthly.com.au/boa...s/575/575.html
gives the stacer a wrap,,,

the carrabean is TWICE the weight of the stacer,, plus 400 hours is a lot on any outboard,, its a nice looking boat,, not a lot of deadrise,, but its weight(nearly a Tonne) should help it there,,

is the Stacer a EVO hull?

Thanks Pedro, we have spent 2 nights looking for info on the stacer and had seen that.. the few reviews say its great for a tinnie but there are so few for sale and so little info about them it seems strange! the Stacer is the EVO I hull (there is now an evoII hull)

with the carribean, from what i have read 400 hours is about equivalent to 40000K's on a car motor. i know that this one has been kept with no expense spared and serviced on time all the time so im not too concerned as one guy on the net has 2300 hours on his engines and says they still run sweet... again it will have a full mech check to be sure.

im not too concerned about the weight as the td5 should pull it without much issues but the stacer will be (i guess) a bit cheaper to run and a more capable tow boat.

a friend goes out on the carribean alot fishing and she loves it... it made her not like her 5.5 haines hunter as it seems to small and too unstable! also everyone has said the carribean is a great boat so im happy about the boat in general, its just the extra cost end of the day 6k is a good chunk of cash BUT its for a boat that is underpriced, whereas the stacer is reasonable money but from a dealer so its unlikely to be a bargain

Thanks so far guys!

Steve

[Barra1]

Hi Steve,

I have just gone through this scenario 18 months ago - although that doesn't make me an expert on boats.

I do spend a bit of time over West - and travel out to Rottnest in my brother's boat.

Although I purchased an aluminium boat - to be used primarily on mountain lakes, rivers and also the estuaries/rivers up in the NT - I would not like to be travelling out to Rottnest in an aluminium boat.

The fibreglass boats are sturdy and comfortable - the lockable cabin can also hold a toilet - and believe me - that is a big plus if you are getting into family boating.

The two-stroke? Whatever boat you buy - if it has a two-stroke, then you are going to need a BIG tank if you plan to go to Rottnest etc - or carry fuel in jerries. My brother had a two-stroke (150hp) on his 21ft Mustang and the fuel was a proverbial pain. This might be something you seriously consider. I certainly don't want to add another factor to your decision making process but it may be worth factoring in either the added fuel expense or the cost of updating to a four-stroke sometime in the future.

My boat has a 90hp four-stroke and used less fuel than a 30hp two-stroke over the same trips each day whilst we were fishing up in the Limmen Bight (NT) four weeks ago.

I can only say what boat I would go for and to do the job you want, I would go the Caribbean - heading out into the blue-water will be much more comfortable.

[5teve]

Hi Steve,

I have just gone through this scenario 18 months ago - although that doesn't make me an expert on boats.

I do spend a bit of time over West - and travel out to Rottnest in my brother's boat.

Although I purchased an aluminium boat - to be used primarily on mountain lakes, rivers and also the estuaries/rivers up in the NT - I would not like to be travelling out to Rottnest in an aluminium boat.

The fibreglass boats are sturdy and comfortable - the lockable cabin can also hold a toilet - and believe me - that is a big plus if you are getting into family boating.

The two-stroke? Whatever boat you buy - if it has a two-stroke, then you are going to need a BIG tank if you plan to go to Rottnest etc - or carry fuel in jerries. My brother had a two-stroke (150hp) on his 21ft Mustang and the fuel was a proverbial pain. This might be something you seriously consider. I certainly don't want to add another factor to your decision making process but it may be worth factoring in either the added fuel expense or the cost of updating to a four-stroke sometime in the future.

My boat has a 90hp four-stroke and used less fuel than a 30hp two-stroke over the same trips each day whilst we were fishing up in the Limmen Bight (NT) four weeks ago.

I can only say what boat I would go for and to do the job you want, I would go the Caribbean - heading out into the blue-water will be much more comfortable.

Thanks for that, if it wasnt an EVO hull (see the link posted by pedro) then i wouldnt have a decision to make! i know allys run harder than a grp, but the evo is by all accounts a hell of a good hull... apparently! remember this is also 6m of boat too.. so not the typical tinnie!

the point about the toilet in the lockable cabin is a good point... not much privacy on the stacer for that!

as far as the fuel goes i have been looking into that also the tohatsu from what i can gather uses around 55lts an hour at the limiter (WOT) and around 28lts/h at about 4300rpm (if only it was the direct injection tohatsu as that uses harly anything in comparison!) the stacer has a 100L tank the carribean has a 205L. The 175 engine i havent a clue on at the moment.. we wont be running to rotto every weekend tho, maybe just once or twice a year at the mo... im sure it will be cheaper than paying $70 each on the ferry!

all opinions are sought and valued so thanks for yours...

Steve

[graceysdad]

The Reef Runners are very safe, strong and last forever and they dont mind decent swell, an engine of good capacity is needed, they are really nice boat. While alloy boats are light and strong, the old Glass hulls have alot in there favour, strenght, sea worthiness, dont bounce around as much, give you a nice ride, but they are heavier, fuel consumption will be higher then alloy. A typical problem, too many boats, cant take them all home.

[Quiggers]

5teve, my Tohatsu story:

(Back about 1980): 18hp bought new, owned for about 3 years, traded for the purchase price, on a Tohatsu 40hp.

Both engines were excellent and never once had any probs with them, despite little regular service (and plenty of use). I was more than impressed by these motors.

At the time Tohatsu motors rated the 'horsepower' at the prop (dunno if they still do that), unlike some other brands which are rated at the head. IE the 40hp was roughly equvalent to a 55hp Merc or Evinrude.

Some glass hulls under heavy use can get cracks (like the boat I have here, which cops a hammering), and can lead to osmosis.

If it was me, I'd like a good long run (in the ocean) on both of the boats you're looking at, before making a decision. I think hull design is probably more inportant than the material used.

We had a 'Carib Dory' for a while some years ago; a 4.5m f'glass jobbie with a quasi tri-hull design, the ride was appalling, on anything but very flat water.

Cheers, GQ

[CraigE]

I would go late model 4 stroke if possible. A lot cleaner and much more fuel efficient. We spend a full day on the water with a new 70 Honda on a 4.8m centre console and use about $50 fuel max.
I like the Stacers, Razorlines etc as they are a good fishing, family and skiing compromise, and are aluminium.
Just being able to come up with $55k for the one I want.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if we are factoring things in;):p
any two stroke will run rings around its equivalent 4 stroke,, trying to lift a tonne "out of the hole" will require a bit more effort with a 4 stroke
4 strokes are MUCH more $$$ to get serviced,,
having said that,,
you will hardly know a 4 stroke is attached to the boat--:cool:(except for the weight:eek:)

[Quiggers]

5teve, if neither of these boats (hulls) really 'do it' for you, you could go another way...

...locate a boat (hull) with a tired engine, trade-in said engine on a new 4 stroker, like a Honda...

that way, you'll get a warranty on the motor along with (hopefully) reliability and good economy...

..if you intend to travel in fresh water areas, some places require 'low emission' motors, E.G. 2 stroke motors are banned in many (inland) places in NSW...

CraigE is entirely right, the newer the motor, the better it will be for you and your crew.

...nothing turns off the family quicker than a boat with a dodgy donk....

(but I do like your Stacer/Tohatsu description, dunny notwithstanding:D).

...my dear old BM-16, a glass over timber hull, is a fabulous thing, even the 1978 build Merc 85 is a good donk and easily pulls skiers and tubies, but it smells, is noisy and drinks...

...also, if you're going offshore, you're required to carry lots of extra safety gear (for good reason) and an auxiliary motor would be a good idea...

cheers, GQ

[Roverray]

Just an explanation of what BOAT stands for
Bring Out Another Thousand ($ that is)

[Quiggers]

Just an explanation of what BOAT stands for
Bring Out Another Thousand ($ that is)


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Been there:eek::twisted:;):D

GQ

[disco2hse]

If you go for a 4 stroke new motor be aware that most are produced with EFI. I have seen several instances of where these have suffered from exposure to salt conditions and for my money I got one with carbies.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/11/100.jpg

You know, for that amount of money you could always build one ;) Like we did with Beatrice (http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice/). 28' and just under 3 tonnes on the trailer, and the TD5 pulls without a problem :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/29.jpg

I flush our engine with Saltaway (http://www.saltawayproducts.com/), as well as squirting it all over the trailer. Excellent stuff for prolonging the life of your engine - they are damned expensive!

[5teve]

5teve, if neither of these boats (hulls) really 'do it' for you, you could go another way...

...locate a boat (hull) with a tired engine, trade-in said engine on a new 4 stroker, like a Honda...

that way, you'll get a warranty on the motor along with (hopefully) reliability and good economy...

..if you intend to travel in fresh water areas, some places require 'low emission' motors, E.G. 2 stroke motors are banned in many (inland) places in NSW...

CraigE is entirely right, the newer the motor, the better it will be for you and your crew.

...nothing turns off the family quicker than a boat with a dodgy donk....

(but I do like your Stacer/Tohatsu description, dunny notwithstanding:D).

...my dear old BM-16, a glass over timber hull, is a fabulous thing, even the 1978 build Merc 85 is a good donk and easily pulls skiers and tubies, but it smells, is noisy and drinks...

...also, if you're going offshore, you're required to carry lots of extra safety gear (for good reason) and an auxiliary motor would be a good idea...

cheers, GQ

not sure if there are any restrictions on low emmision engines in WA yet, but most fresh water will be done from around perth (swan valley) to freo and have plenty of friends who have 2 strokes and use them on the river...

most work will be offshore and both boats come with all the safety gear.. except the stacer is only single battery.. which i would change immediately. jackets radio epirb etc etc are all included.

the tohatsu is 4 years old so isnt that bad but not the new generation 2 stroke. unfortunately i dont have a choice on motors they come with what they have.

we will take both out anyway and have a look at how they both feel. i cant put my finger on why i like the stacer at the moment... just seems to be something about it.. A ride in it will tell all..




You know, for that amount of money you could always build one Like we did with Beatrice. 28' and just under 3 tonnes on the trailer, and the TD5 pulls without a problem


if i had the time the space and (she had) the patience i would love to... looks a beautiful boat... but im pretty sure a boat that size over here would need a huge engine on to get it to move!


if we are factoring things in
any two stroke will run rings around its equivalent 4 stroke,, trying to lift a tonne "out of the hole" will require a bit more effort with a 4 stroke
4 strokes are MUCH more $$$ to get serviced,,
having said that,,
you will hardly know a 4 stroke is attached to the boat--(except for the weight)

yeah would love a 4 stroke so its quiet... but running costs are a consideration (another reason to go for the stacer as its lightweight) but not the only consideration.

with the price on the carribean being so low we could afford to get a 4 stroke on it and still be able to sell up later with minimal loss... depends on whether usage justifies the fuel saving...

Quiggers... good to hear some positive stuff about the tohatsu's...

thanks for the help and opinions guys... it all helps...

if you want to see the stacer its here...

http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats/ed.html'de=29760


Thanks

Steve

[disco2hse]

if i had the time the space and (she had) the patience i would love to... looks a beautiful boat... but im pretty sure a boat that size over here would need a huge engine on to get it to move!

60 hp Yamaha 4 stroke Hi-thrust, and it is a little over powered. :cool:

[shorty943]

There is only one way to go if you want to go offshore, Steve. Go heavy.
A heavier boat is more "sea kindly", she rides a lot nicer.
I first went to sea at 15 years of age.
Ally is for cans of beer mate, not boats. Okay, for a car-topper, nothing more.

As for a repower? Think seriously on this.

Yanmah, Yamaha, Tohatsu. They all now make a very nice diesel outboard that runs on Bio-Diesel.
Impossible to pick from any other outboard side by side.
Honda make a really nice over-head cam 4 stoke.
2-strokes are out in Europe, and will be here soon.

Go for the Reef Runner, 18 foot is not really a very big boat, and repower with a nice new diesel outboard.

Personally, knowing Ozzie Whitely as I do, I'd try to find one of his lads "Voyager" series.
Solid, deep vee offshore hull, good safe freeboard, climb up onto their bow-wave and plane like a speed boat or dawdle like a trawler. For a glass boat they're nice.

[Quiggers]

Yeah!

Do it!

Dont waste too much time, or it may disappear.

bow is reasonably high, so the cab should stay dry, forward hull shape shows decent attack, chines may cause a bit of banging under your feet (skippers position)

What hooks me is the Tohatsu donk; if they make them like when I had my Toh's it should be a ripper.

The sounder is a bit basic, but, eh, so what?

A curtain over the cab; get the dealer to throw in a potty and your dunny prob is solved...

fair price at $30k from what you've sent...

the good thing about alloy is it will last for a very long time...no glass fracture worries...

be interesting to see the 'storm covers'; and check the bilge!!! if its very clean you know its been well cared for, if it shows residual grubbieness or much water markings, then ensure you check the donk.

does it have a bilge pump - whats its condition?

where is the 'hidden' flotation? - ie compressed buoyancy foam, even if the hull is immersed it (the boat) should still float...at about gunnel

now, standing by for the pics, the family in action!

GQ

[5teve]

Yeah!

Do it!

Dont waste too much time, or it may disappear.

bow is reasonably high, so the cab should stay dry, forward hull shape shows decent attack, chines may cause a bit of banging under your feet (skippers position)

What hooks me is the Tohatsu donk; if they make them like when I had my Toh's it should be a ripper.

The sounder is a bit basic, but, eh, so what? Thats solved with combined sounder chartplotter (lowrance) that he will do us for cheap money
A curtain over the cab; get the dealer to throw in a potty and your dunny prob is solved... can always ask!

fair price at $30k from what you've sent... we wont be paying 30k for it... i know that for sure
the good thing about alloy is it will last for a very long time...no glass fracture worries...

be interesting to see the 'storm covers'; and check the bilge!!! if its very clean you know its been well cared for, if it shows residual grubbieness or much water markings, then ensure you check the donk.

does it have a bilge pump - whats its condition?

where is the 'hidden' flotation? - ie compressed buoyancy foam, even if the hull is immersed it (the boat) should still float...at about gunnel not seen any so maybe worth taking the floors up... then i can see other stuff that may be worth seeing! did you notice it had been antifouled.... which is strange for a trailer boat..

now, standing by for the pics, the family in action!

GQ

Look up for comments... some great points made thanks...

we have just found out that SWMBO's boss has just spent a lot of money again with the guy we are dealing with... and has a lot of sway with him... so has told us to give him what for with the offer etc...

the nice thing is that the carribean wont be going anywhere as the guy isnt actively selling it... the stacer on the otherhand... well dunno how long it will last..

Shorty...

you sound like a fibreglass man! i have found you are either one or the other... so thanks for your opinions.. and especially the hope that there is a deisel outboard... i can imagine they are great BUT... i cannot find any info on them at all ... or the ones i can are all teeny 35hp engines... i'll need at least a 150 on the carribean... i'll assume as they are pretty specialist that they wont come cheap... i always wanted one based my impression of the TD5... i have been impressed with it... i wouldnt want to go back to petrol (until the td5 rapes my wallet :D )

Again thanks so much for the help...

Steve

[Quiggers]

antifoul doesn't cost much more than regular boat paint, (outside hi uv / salt resistance) and if the previous owner was a bit of a pedant, then so much the better:D;)

i have a 'dry' boat with anitfoul - 'cause i have gallons of the goo....seals up nicks in my glass over timber hull:D:D:D
.... some americans did some weird hulls in the early '60s....

take it for a run and take some pics, see how it goes getting up to plane - shouldn't really be any dramas with this boat; and give the trailer a good 'once over'...

how's the dealer? if he's not a genuine tohatsu person, find the guy in Perth who is - in my experience with Tohatsu's - the blokes in Syd were ex Evinrude converts, they loved the Tohatsu's (less w'ty work to do;)) unlike the blasted evinrrrrrrrssssss grrs

good thing it doesn't have one of them on the back,
i could write a book on evinrrgrrrrr:mad: failures

GQ

[GuyG]

We've got an older Carribean Reef Runner, think it was purchased 2nd hand in the mid 80's. Its 21 foot with an inboard/outboard Mercruiser about 200hp, mmm another V8:twisted:, as mentioned nice and solid. The engine had the cast iron manifolds which rusted through but has been fitted with stainless water cooled exhaust manifold but hasn't been back in the water since these were fitted so am unable to comment on how this has improved performance.

It has the lockable cabin which has the toilet. Can sleep 2 in the cabin which is handy if your wanting to stay out overnight fishing. We've fitted an electric winch on the anchor chain for ease of use. I believe they are a similar design to the Bertram boats. The trailer is a dual axle and also has an electric winch (wouldn't want to try and manually winch it up:eek:).

It has a fixed roof, which is good for kids to jump off:D or sunbake on .... oops I mean additional places to fish from. Also is shade which is nice when out fishing in the hot sun.

You definately know its behind you in the rangie 3.5V8, the deck is above the roof of the car.

Just some thoughts, by the sound of it ours is a bit bigger than the one you're looking at.

[graceysdad]

Hobie sounds like he has one of the better ones, the old Carribeans were exceptionally strong, well laid hulls, there are still plenty around and this is always good testament to a design,

[Quiggers]

Hobie18 et al has (have) a very valid point.

What's your tow car, 5teve?

GQ

[5teve]

a chipped td5 disco II with SLS.... towing shouldnt be a problem!

yeah good point about the carribean... if the '97 is a good hull too... but its only 6.3... hobies sounds bigger... good opinion on its uses tho...

the only testament im going to get an honest opinion is my own isnt it? there are for and againsts on both... we will take them both out... and i'll also take all of your opinions into account..

the dealer isnt a tohatsu person... but seems to think they are ok... he has a suzuki 4 stroke on his... the evinrudes are that bad eh?

maybe right about the anti foul... we were worried it may of been stored in the water.. but it doesnt look overly corroded... although the anodes will need replacing at some point soon..

thanks again guys

Steve

[Quiggers]

zillions of dead suzuki 2 stroke motors litter the dead boat yard landscape...

i've had several evinrudes from new which have suffered from appalling ex factory delivery:

a new 70 hp 3cyl drunk juice like there was no tomorrow and every day of its short life, lost numerous nuts;

when that motor was a week old, it was the cause of an 'official rescue' off Syd Hds, very embarrassing for the supplier (OMC, I seem to recall), who was a sponsor of the tv program we were making at the time...

the auxilary never worked when it was needed, but ran up back at the office okay:eek::eek::eek:

a little 6hp evinrggrrgggrr on a zodiac also worked okay upstream, for about ten minutes before expiring....

never had prob with the tohatsu's:D:D:D

no prob with the towcar, there, 5teve!!!

GQ

[shorty943]

Look up for comments... some great points made thanks...

we have just found out that SWMBO's boss has just spent a lot of money again with the guy we are dealing with... and has a lot of sway with him... so has told us to give him what for with the offer etc...

the nice thing is that the carribean wont be going anywhere as the guy isnt actively selling it... the stacer on the otherhand... well dunno how long it will last..

Shorty...

you sound like a fibreglass man! i have found you are either one or the other... so thanks for your opinions.. and especially the hope that there is a deisel outboard... i can imagine they are great BUT... i cannot find any info on them at all ... or the ones i can are all teeny 35hp engines... i'll need at least a 150 on the carribean... i'll assume as they are pretty specialist that they wont come cheap... i always wanted one based my impression of the TD5... i have been impressed with it... i wouldnt want to go back to petrol (until the td5 rapes my wallet :D )

Again thanks so much for the help...

Steve

I'm actually a timber sailing ship man. I don't even like glass over timber.
I can barely tolerate plywood, but at least it is wood.

When it comes to power, a well designed hull should only need it's own length in engine power to get up to full theoretical hull speed. Then you might need to triple or even quadruple that to get onto the plane, if she is a planing hull.

Diesel outboards. Cat make them, big ones, up to 2,500 HP. Is that enough?:D

Bearing in mind of course, you'll have to find a way to hang a quad turbo'd, V12 off the back.:twisted:

I've been out of the profession for about ten years now, but I will have a quick hunt around, see what I can find.

[5teve]

Diesel outboards. Cat make them, big ones, up to 2,500 HP. Is that enough?

Bearing in mind of course, you'll have to find a way to hang a quad turbo'd, V12 off the back.

Oh is that all... no problems a couple of high tensile bolts should see that right and about a million metres cubed of foam stuffed into the mod pod on the rear :p now what size prop would i be looking for???!?!?

i'd appreciate you haveing a look and letting me know!

wow this really is a great site... with great members!

Thanks

Steve

[shorty943]

More mister.

A Google search turned up this in about an hour.

http://www.fishnboat.com.au/stocklist.htm

http://www.woodenboatshop.com.au/

http://www.yanmar.com.au/marine/D%20Series/d2736details.htm

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2123708440091848696cMMtdq

http://www.yanmar.com.au/marine/d_series/dseries.htm

http://independent-outboard-sales.tradenote.net/product/288610-Yanmar-Diesel-Outboards

It seems they are a hot item and made of "unobtainium".:(

The /rides/webshots link is a curiosity from 1976. An Italian built Carniti Diesel Outboard.

Most of the information I found was from the UK and Alaska. Diesel outboards in general public use are a rarity in Aus.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

am I right in thinking antifoul paint is not the slipperyist thing around?

[disco2hse]

am I right in thinking antifoul paint is not the slipperyist thing around?

Yeah you are. And most antifoul will deteriorate when not immersed in water. Ablative antifoul will be ok on a trailer boat though.

[disco2hse]

Diesel outboards are noisy and smelly. In most cases they are not suited to runabouts being designed for industrial applications.

Modern 2-strokes and 4-strokes are very economical to run. My 60hp Yammie does about 5l/hr.

[5teve]

More mister.

A Google search turned up this in about an hour.

http://www.fishnboat.com.au/stocklist.htm

http://www.woodenboatshop.com.au/

http://www.yanmar.com.au/marine/D%20Series/d2736details.htm

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2123708440091848696cMMtdq

http://www.yanmar.com.au/marine/d_series/dseries.htm

http://independent-outboard-sales.tradenote.net/product/288610-Yanmar-Diesel-Outboards

It seems they are a hot item and made of "unobtainium".:(

The /rides/webshots link is a curiosity from 1976. An Italian built Carniti Diesel Outboard.

Most of the information I found was from the UK and Alaska. Diesel outboards in general public use are a rarity in Aus.

Thanks for spending the time doing that shorty... looks like they are of the smaller variety... but still a nice idea... diesel cars are a rarity really in aus compared to europe so hardly surprising that the outboards arent seen here very often!


am I right in thinking antifoul paint is not the slipperyist thing around?

is that a bad thing then? im assuming you mean slippy in the water? this stuff is a thick creamy coloured base with black paint over the top... the black paint having mostly worn off or at least looking tatty... personally i'd like to take it off...


Diesel outboards are noisy and smelly. In most cases they are not suited to runabouts being designed for industrial applications.

Modern 2-strokes and 4-strokes are very economical to run. My 60hp Yammie does about 5l/hr.

wow that not a lot of fuel... im assuming thats a total of the general use it gets rather than constant running?


Now for some more question as i have been thinking overnight... all regarding the stacer....

Should the stacer have fresh water on board? if not why? and is it easy to fit?

Hour meters.... it hasnt got one... but i would ldeally like to fit one... again... this isnt particularly hard is it?

Dual batteries.. i consider this to be a must.. so how much would i be looking for fitting a second with an isolator?

Paint - the hull has a few chips on it (quite a few) around the sides where the guy was dragging his craypots in (apparently) typically what sort of costs would i be looking at to repair this... or is it easier to prep the whole thing and get a full respray?

what happens if there is no bouyancy foam? is it something that can be added? or should it be there as standard?

should the dealer object to me wanting to take the floor up to see what is under there?

im sure i'll think of some more so again thanks for all your time on this!

Steve

[disco2hse]

is that a bad thing then? im assuming you mean slippy in the water? this stuff is a thick creamy coloured base with black paint over the top... the black paint having mostly worn off or at least looking tatty... personally i'd like to take it off

Antifoul does add significant drag in the water and could amount to a litre or more per hour, depending on displacement, hull shape etc. But as a trailer boat it can make it quite difficult pull up To get around that problem I use nylon sliders that get ultra-slippery when wet (you can't stand on them or you'll go a-over-k).

If your boat is never going to spend any extended period of time on the water then you don't need antifoul. A nice glassy finish is much better on a fizz boat.


wow that not a lot of fuel... im assuming thats a total of the general use it gets rather than constant running?

That is the fuel usage at cruising speed, i.e. constant running.


Should the stacer have fresh water on board? if not why? and is it easy to fit?

Fresh water should always be carried when you go out. I normally pack at least 20l. I keep this in 20l containers although I have a 100l water bladder under the cabin sole.

Easy to fit? Sure, stick a tap on the container or put a sink in with a caravan pump, or you can go really fancy with an electric pump but they get annoying at night when there is no other noise but the whirring-grinding your damned pump;)


Hour meters.... it hasnt got one... but i would ldeally like to fit one... again... this isnt particularly hard is it?

Very useful thing to have. Just as important as an odometer in your LR and for the same reason, so you know when to have your engine serviced, etc.

I would be surprised if it didn't already have one as all newish outboards have them as standard, unless they are low range putputs for dinghies and such.

They are a component of the outboard so the fittings should already be there and the manufacturer should be able to provide you with the correct one for your model.


Dual batteries.. i consider this to be a must.. so how much would i be looking for fitting a second with an isolator?

Yes,this can an important item, especially if you have a fish finder and anchor winch. The bits you need are easily obtained from any chandler. Just make certain you get the correct cables and lengths, and... actually, get a marine electrician to install them. The sparky will recommend what you actually need according to your electrical requirements. It can not only save you time and grief, it may also save your life. There are instances where people have used the wrong sized cable/length ratio and had their boat go up in smoke.

Also make sure you are putting them in the right place. I see a lot of people putting batteries at the back but that may produce poor trim - the boat sitting stern down at rest or upsetting the plane angle. So I would suggest that before you decide, go out and move some batteries or heavy objects around until you are satisfied where you want them. Also, don't have them in the bilge because they will be affected by any salt water that accumulates there and batteries do produce gases which be lethal/explosive.


Paint - the hull has a few chips on it (quite a few) around the sides where the guy was dragging his craypots in (apparently) typically what sort of costs would i be looking at to repair this... or is it easier to prep the whole thing and get a full respray?

You can do this yourself. Epoxy coatings are expensive and there is no cheap way. It is important that the whole boat be done at the same time if the damaged areas are extensive. But once it's done your boat will look a million dollars :)

If you are inexperienced in this kind of application you can either do some research or get someone who knows how to do it. I'd go for the latter and if they cock it up they can fix it too:angel:


what happens if there is no bouyancy foam? is it something that can be added? or should it be there as standard?

Won't make any real difference in a boat that size. You do not want to stake your life on something like that, instead learn how to handle the boat in different conditions and don't get into situations where you may be swamped. In other words, know your limitations and do not go too far beyond them (just enough for you to learn from your mistakes one mistake at a time).

People die because they trust in their boat's features instead of their skill or capability.


should the dealer object to me wanting to take the floor up to see what is under there?

Absolutely not! If he is objecting to this then I would suspect that he knows there is something there he doesn't want you to see. Say you were to have the boat surveyed, the surveyor would check the bilges as a matter of course.

Watch out, this might be a lemon.

[5teve]

Antifoul does add significant drag in the water and could amount to a litre or more per hour, depending on displacement, hull shape etc. But as a trailer boat it can make it quite difficult pull up To get around that problem I use nylon sliders that get ultra-slippery when wet (you can't stand on them or you'll go a-over-k).

If your boat is never going to spend any extended period of time on the water then you don't need antifoul. A nice glassy finish is much better on a fizz boat.

not sure why it was done and someone has highlighted this as a potential hideall... im not too sure tho.. im pretty sure that the trailer is a full rollered trailer so shouldnt be a problem it does look a little rough so would probably get it removed... if we were to buy



That is the fuel usage at cruising speed, i.e. constant running. wow... cheap! what is cruising speed on that beautiful boat? guys at work were very impressed with the build and quality of finish by the way


Fresh water should always be carried when you go out. I normally pack at least 20l. I keep this in 20l containers although I have a 100l water bladder under the cabin sole.

yeah was thinking water containers were the way to go... but i think there is a fair bit of room under the floor so may look at something more permanent..

Easy to fit? Sure, stick a tap on the container or put a sink in with a caravan pump, or you can go really fancy with an electric pump but they get annoying at night when there is no other noise but the whirring-grinding your damned pump;)



Very useful thing to have. Just as important as an odometer in your LR and for the same reason, so you know when to have your engine serviced, etc.

I would be surprised if it didn't already have one as all newish outboards have them as standard, unless they are low range putputs for dinghies and such.
They are a component of the outboard so the fittings should already be there and the manufacturer should be able to provide you with the correct one for your model.

it doesnt have one on the dash.. maybe one hiding on the motor... but im fairly sure it doesnt... quite a few i have been talking to say they dont have one on theirs... but cheap for an accurate reminder!


Yes,this can an important item, especially if you have a fish finder and anchor winch. The bits you need are easily obtained from any chandler. Just make certain you get the correct cables and lengths, and... actually, get a marine electrician to install them. The sparky will recommend what you actually need according to your electrical requirements. It can not only save you time and grief, it may also save your life. There are instances where people have used the wrong sized cable/length ratio and had their boat go up in smoke. I was taking this as a must do... same as i will do it on the LR before we do any long trips..

Also make sure you are putting them in the right place. I see a lot of people putting batteries at the back but that may produce poor trim - the boat sitting stern down at rest or upsetting the plane angle. So I would suggest that before you decide, go out and move some batteries or heavy objects around until you are satisfied where you want them. Also, don't have them in the bilge because they will be affected by any salt water that accumulates there and batteries do produce gases which be lethal/explosive. there is a shelf for mounting this kind of thing just in front of the transom (i think its called) compared to my weight the battery is fairly insignificant!



You can do this yourself. Epoxy coatings are expensive and there is no cheap way. It is important that the whole boat be done at the same time if the damaged areas are extensive. But once it's done your boat will look a million dollars :)

im pretty sure the existing paint is a 2 pack paint.. not sure if that IS eopxy or not... the damage isnt extensive.. its just irritating to see a whole lot of chips on the edges.. im assuming the paint was brittle and the guy didnt take too much care with his cray pots...

If you are inexperienced in this kind of application you can either do some research or get someone who knows how to do it. I'd go for the latter and if they cock it up they can fix it too:angel:



Won't make any real difference in a boat that size. You do not want to stake your life on something like that, instead learn how to handle the boat in different conditions and don't get into situations where you may be swamped. In other words, know your limitations and do not go too far beyond them (just enough for you to learn from your mistakes one mistake at a time).

People die because they trust in their boat's features instead of their skill or capability.

no dont want to trust the boat.. its just that i think it was quiggers that mentioned it.. i guess it stops the boat from being lost completely.. it was more a question of should it be there!



Absolutely not! If he is objecting to this then I would suspect that he knows there is something there he doesn't want you to see. Say you were to have the boat surveyed, the surveyor would check the bilges as a matter of course.

Survey will be done... and dealer has made no noises about not being able to do stuff... it was just a what if

Watch out, this might be a lemon. i hope not! :D

wow thanks for that! a very extensive reply!

the dealer hasnt objected to anything i'm just pre-empting his response... which im looking at from a worst case scenario..

i have added some more comments above..

have just called and made an offer which was flatly refused... he says minimum of 28k no lower... i guess i could push him on fitting stuff? do we still think its reasonable value... subject to good mechanicals and all clear from survey...?

Thanks again for that great reply... im learning :D

Steve

[disco2hse]

not sure why it was done and someone has highlighted this as a potential hideall... im not too sure tho.. im pretty sure that the trailer is a full rollered trailer so shouldnt be a problem it does look a little rough so would probably get it removed... if we were to buy

If you are going to get the chips done then you might as well go the whole hog.


cheap! what is cruising speed on that beautiful boat? guys at work were very impressed with the build and quality of finish by the way

Thanks :) Beatrice is a beautiful boat. Makes it hard to get off the slip with all her admirers ;) Hull designed speed is 6.5 knots, We normally cruise at 8-10 knots and max is 17 knots. Beatrice a is displacement hull and, like George, the 109, we prefer to drive slow :D


yeah was thinking water containers were the way to go... but i think there is a fair bit of room under the floor so may look at something more permanent..

You can get water containers in all kinds of shapes and sizes. I am certain you will find something that fits your needs.


it doesnt have one on the dash.. maybe one hiding on the motor... but im fairly sure it doesnt... quite a few i have been talking to say they dont have one on theirs... but cheap for an accurate reminder!

IIRC it is a fairly oldish model so it may not have one. But if you get a new/newer engine it will have one. They are a doddle to install.


there is a shelf for mounting this kind of thing just in front of the transom (i think its called) compared to my weight the battery is fairly insignificant!

At 20-25kg per battery that is a lot of weight to affect your trim. It will make a difference to your boat's handling and fuel consumption. The original design was for a single battery only. Adding another will make a difference. Consider too that when you are at anchor and sitting at the stern, there will be the combined weight of you, your family and the batteries.


im pretty sure the existing paint is a 2 pack paint.. not sure if that IS eopxy or not... the damage isnt extensive.. its just irritating to see a whole lot of chips on the edges.. im assuming the paint was brittle and the guy didnt take too much care with his cray pots...

Gel coat and paint are epoxy normally. Steps are, remove old gel coat, prepare paint surface, coat with colour, coat with gel coat. Normally done in two days by a pro. Day one, prep, day two coatings.


no dont want to trust the boat.. its just that i think it was quiggers that mentioned it.. i guess it stops the boat from being lost completely.. it was more a question of should it be there!

For it to have any appreciable effect consider the weight in water displaced if the boat were full of water. Say it weighs 1.5 tonne dry, the internal volume then filled with water, say another 1.5 tonne. You would need the equivalent flotation in foam to support that weight, 3 tonnes. It'd probably damn near fill the boat:eek:


Survey will be done... and dealer has made no noises about not being able to do stuff... it was just a what if

Oh, OK then. See if you can get a recommended surveyor from the local Coast Guard or boating club. Some are not very good.

[Barra1]

Steve, do you mind if I chuck in a few observations and comments - just food for thought from someone on the outside-looking in;)

The Stacer seems "very used" - and at $28K (as stated by the dealer) it seems a bit rich.

Mate, I bought a 5.2m aluminium (and that is 4mm plate aluminium) fully equipped, powered by Suzuki 90hp four-stroke and dual axle trailer for $35K - brand spanking new. Maybe not the boat for you but it gives an idea of what is available.

Steve, why the fixation on this boat - the boat-yards are full of them - enjoy yourself and have a bit more of a look.

Just my comments, Steve, but reading your remarks I am becoming uncomfortable with the boat in question.

In fact, there is a good boat manufactured in WA - Trailcraft and they are relatively well-priced.

[5teve]

Thanks for the answers there disco...

Barra..

we have a fairly tight budget that we would blow completely at 35k.. the carribean comes in at under that... and the stacer obviusly does too :D maths is my strong point you see!!!

maybe i am being a bit harsh and put it across as being far more used that it is.... im very finicky with things i buy and like to get perfection for scrap money! the fixing of chips to the paintwork will be done in time.. as will everything else.. so again maybe im being harsh on it... which is better than being smitten with it..

have you had a look on boatsonline for wa? there arent that many boats around at the mo that seem good. I know dealers are struggling to find boats at all... the few and far between reviews of the stacer also seem to be very very good... and a sea trial will tell us all i guess! did you see the link to the stacer review and also the advert?

one of the guys on here worked for trailcraft and has told me to call saltwater marine about boats there... so will be doing that shortly!

thanks again for your comments, all very helpful!

Steve

[Barra1]

Sorry Steve, I didn't word my previous post as well as I intended.

I was only using the figure of $35,000 for a new boat as an illustration of the difference between new and what I thought was a well-used boat.

Understand completely the budget - I blew mine but then again (at times) owning and fitting-out a Land Rover is a University for Budget Blowing.:(

But I suppose that would be same for any properly equipped 4WD. Certainly applies to buying and owning a boat.:o

[5teve]

no apologies... i hope my post didnt seem to snap back at you it was only meant in a humourous way... all opinions / examples are valued and learned by...

i have called trailcraft and they have NO second hand boats...which i was surprised about but they occasionally see second hand motors that get whacked on new boats.. brings the cost down... they said they will have a quick hunt around and see what they can find...

ideally we were looking for a 6m boat (learning from a friend or 2 there!) and this stacer came close and ticked a few boxes...

we will deffo get the trial with the stacer and get pics etc.. then see what people think... if its still good then we'll do the mechanical and see how that shapes up...

budgets i have got used to blowing (house, car, kitchen, bathroom, and im sure the boat too.... as originally we had 25k for the boat... )

oh well... life goes on :angel:

Thanks

Steve

[Quiggers]

...should get a big truck and pick up some of the zillions of used boats that lurk around here....:D:D:D

and head for Perth!

I'm trying to sell my old ship at the mo' for all of $3000
(damn good boat for the money) but, nary a scratch...

GQ

[5teve]

you may joke... but i have thought about it! at least going and getting one for me... they are cheaper over east too! :D

Thanks

Steve

[Quiggers]

That's not as silly as it sounds Steve...

There's zillions of boats for sale here, I reckon the Gold Coast has more boats for sale on yards, than used cars.....

Take a holiday, drive over, find a goody and tow it home... or fly over, buy one, launch it and do a quick loop of the northern part of Aussieland:D:D:D should get back to Perth about March....:twisted:

GQ

[Rovernaut]

believe me you DON'T NEED a BOAT, your Landy can keep you poor by itself, it doesn't need help from a boat:D:D:p:p

[graceysdad]

Anti foul is used on boats that rarely leave the water it helps with resistance to barnacles etc, A glass boat should be gel coated from factory or its been tarted up probably a two pack urethane would be ok, house enamel is fine for homebuild ply jobs not what you want to use on a big GRP girl, using a nice silicone polish will aid in keeping it looking flash , naturally when you go home a trip to carlovers to clean with the High pressure hose and foam is a good idea, specially the trailer, regular inspection of the keel on glass boats is a most as they eventually start to wear from sand and boat trailer rollers, worry when you let the false floor bung out and out comes half the Pacific, for keeping your trailer nice and clean, regular washing after been in salt, wd 40 the hell out of the springs and keeps your roller pins lubes, every couple years if you were bored you could sling fresh coat of cold gal paint over it, dont forget the bearings and to keep the wheel studs lightly greased when you pop a tyre off, they rust like mad, salt is the root of all evil it ruins everything, just boils doown to maintenance and if you are going to spend good money on a nice machine you have to look after your investment,

Tohatsu motors are great, top motors, consider a 4 stroke Honda these things boogy.
The OMC stuff seems to keep on keeping on, as do the Mercs and Mariners but a Mariner is a Merc both owned by Brunswick now, they own Force which is the old Chryslers havent heard much about these other then they are very torquey as there predecessors were, theres good and bad in everything boats, motors all you can do is glean as much information as you can from the guys here and dont run off half cocked.

[5teve]

Anti foul is used on boats that rarely leave the water it helps with resistance to barnacles etc, A glass boat should be gel coated from factory or its been tarted up probably a two pack urethane would be ok, house enamel is fine for homebuild ply jobs not what you want to use on a big GRP girl, using a nice silicone polish will aid in keeping it looking flash , naturally when you go home a trip to carlovers to clean with the High pressure hose and foam is a good idea,

Have one of these at home... so no probs there :D

specially the trailer, regular inspection of the keel on glass boats is a most as they eventually start to wear from sand and boat trailer rollers, worry when you let the false floor bung out and out comes half the Pacific, for keeping your trailer nice and clean, regular washing after been in salt, wd 40 the hell out of the springs and keeps your roller pins lubes, every couple years if you were bored you could sling fresh coat of cold gal paint over it, dont forget the bearings and to keep the wheel studs lightly greased when you pop a tyre off, they rust like mad, salt is the root of all evil

and i thought that was the sis in law :twisted:

it ruins everything, just boils doown to maintenance and if you are going to spend good money on a nice machine you have to look after your investment,

Tohatsu motors are great, (good to hear!) top motors, consider a 4 stroke Honda these things boogy.
The OMC stuff seems to keep on keeping on, as do the Mercs and Mariners but a Mariner is a Merc both owned by Brunswick now, they own Force which is the old Chryslers havent heard much about these other then they are very torquey as there predecessors were, theres good and bad in everything boats, motors all you can do is glean as much information as you can from the guys here and dont run off half cocked.

Thanks for that... added one or 2 comments up there^

seems there are a few trailer boats anti fouled over here... god knows why... probably someone told them it would be a good idea!

The more i read about the tohatsu's the more i am comfortable they are ok..

we are going to see both tonight... the stacer to make an offer and make it subject to lots of things... so basically we can walk away... the carribean we will see shortly after and go from there.. no rush on that one at all... no rush on the stacer either too ;)

the one thing im heavily considering now is at current fuel prices.. the carribean is going to cost close to $300 to fill up.. and it wont be lasting all that long.. the stacer is going to cost half that... and probably run for the same time... well maybe not the same but close..

i guess the test runs will tell the way we go ... or dont as the case may be!

see here for all the boats under 30k in WA that have been listed for sale in the last month... gives a bit of perspective i guess!

http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats/results.html?action=adv_search&match=&keywords=&srch=ICgoY2F0X2lkPjIgQU5EIGNhdF9pZDw5KSBPUiBjYXRfa WQ9MjUgT1IgY2F0X2lkPTMyIE9SIGNhdF9pZD0zMyBPUiBjYXR faWQ9MzQgT1IgKGFsc28%2BMiBBTkQgYWxzbzw5KSBPUiBhbHN vPTI1IE9SIGFsc289MzIgT1IgYWxzbz0zMyBPUiBhbHNvPTM0K SBBTkQgYWRkX2RhdGUgPiAxMTkyOTE3OTE4IEFORCAoIFByaWN lID49IDEgIEFORCBQcmljZSA8PSAzMDAwMCApIA%3D%3D&order_by=price_desc

once again thanks a huge heap for your opinions and suggestions... they help a huge amount (and confuse me all the more! :p )

Steve

[5teve]

one more question guys....

what sort of compression figures would i expect to see from a 140 tohatsu? information seems pretty scarce on the net about this! dealer has mentioned 140psi but i dont know if he is just doing his dealer thing....

Thanks

Steve

[graceysdad]

110 on an old Merc 6 is considered good, so I would guess about the same, long as they are all even, what you should notice if you test both in the water is the way the Carribean will soak up up the chop and give you a nice ride, where the tinny will bounce along and give your brain a thorough stirring, economy is a concern, as is engine reliability so I guess you will be willing to sacrifice one for the other which is ok, a 20 gallon cruise tank at a buck forty a litre is a big hit in the pocket and thats a huge issue for any boat owner

[Quarks]

Hi Steve,

Had a poke around on the net, to see what I could find, and as you said, there isn't much out there, but from what I can work out, 140psi wouldn't be unreasonable to expect.

Geoff

[5teve]

Graceys dad and thethink thanks for your opinions / info...

an update for you all...

we have been to drop a refundable deposit on the stacer based on sea trial, mech check and us not changing our mind. should be pretty water tight (no pun intended) as the sales guy is confident he has sold it to us.. i checked a few more things out... it has lights bilge pump etc etc etc...

went to see the carribean too.. for the first time... beautiful boat, classily fitted out and well cared for considering its a '96. no hour meter fitted and the owner is a bit vague about hours as he reckons somewhere between 200 and 400 hours! fantastic guy tho... and has the motor service at least once a season but normally twice he has had it since 1997.

the motor is a evinrude 175 spitfire v6 so i dont know what that means...cant find much info! the trailer is a dunbier twin axle and the boat is 6.3m long... not much bigger than the stacer... but the stacer has more deck room.. but no lockable cuddy just an open one.

as far as the condition of the hull goes... few scratches on the keel area some big chunks out where the winch pulls it to the roller stop and a bit of a crunch on the bowsprit (i think its called, where the anchor rolls over) there are some big cracks under the bowsprit too as i assume it has taken a hefty impact cant see this being an issue tho! Cuddy is small but not bad and could possibly sleep me with some discomfort (6 foot 1) full cover also that are new with a raised roofline for taller riders. only has 5 seats tho.. but can carry 6... the drivers seat doesnt have a rear facing pod seat on the back of it.. and its fixed seats at the rear either side of the engine. like i say nice boat... but would probably want to repower it soon.. mainly for economy on this size boat..

so seeing it hasnt helped us one bit... stacer has its advantages being about the softest riding tinnie thats available and having a great platform on the back plus being 6m+ overall.. and being batterable by beginners! oh its still only 4 years old.. its still probably gonna be harsh tho...

the carribean has a bit of refinement we can lock ourselves away at night, its gonna ride well without a doubt but the engine is old and thirsty but that can be remidied with a good second hand motor... but finding a 4 stroke around this power is gonna be hard... and costly as its likely to need a 200hp one.. it will be a comfortable boat which is why this guy has had it for 10 years...

soo... we are gonna take the stacer out for a run as soon as we can.. followed more than likely by the carribean

only other issue is that it really seem like the carribean owner doesnt really want to sell it just that we happen to be interested... so he is interested... if you know what i mean ;)

Thanks for all the help guys... i guess its up to us now...

Steve

[CraigE]

Being in Esperance and down here reg for the last 20 odd years. Glass hulls break and are a drama to repair. Ally is much more suited for ocean going and heavy weather and is also easily repaired. If you talk to most of the serious fishermen down here 99% will say gey ally.
I have no real bias but being an off shore rig you are looking for I would go ally.
The Stacers are a beautiful boat and really well designed. A great compromise for family vs fishing.
I will be buying a Stacer or Razorline (Albany built boats) when I can afford one.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

is the carribean trailer a drive on?
could/should/might be--?
this might explain the marks around the winch area.

If you look at the fibreglass boat market, the old haines V17 etc are STILL dragging in good prices,, why? because they were built like tanks, weigh as much as a tank,
but like a tank-- will absorb punishment way beyond the next era of glass boats, which went "lightweight" due to customer requests. enter the dreaded soggy bottom syndrome:o;):D

[disco2hse]

as far as the condition of the hull goes... few scratches on the keel area some big chunks out where the winch pulls it to the roller stop and a bit of a crunch on the bowsprit (i think its called, where the anchor rolls over) there are some big cracks under the bowsprit too as i assume it has taken a hefty impact cant see this being an issue tho! Cuddy is small but not bad and could possibly sleep me with some discomfort (6 foot 1) full cover also that are new with a raised roofline for taller riders. only has 5 seats tho.. but can carry 6... the drivers seat doesnt have a rear facing pod seat on the back of it.. and its fixed seats at the rear either side of the engine. like i say nice boat... but would probably want to repower it soon.. mainly for economy on this size boat..

Right then.

Glass or aluminium, it doesn't matter if you are going offshore. Think of how many yachts sail the world and how many of those are glass these days, nearly all of them, and very few are aluminium. If you are a fisherman, and I have been one, you want something you can bash about, that doesn't cost too much to repair and in fact can be repaired simply and effectively, if not attractively - one skipper I had used to pour concrete into the bilge to stop leaks :eek: very effective and added good ballast but the purists would freak.

However, your description of the damage is an area of concern, especially in the places you talk about. These are major structural features in a plastic boat and if they are weakened it will cause more serious issues to develop. Cracks in gel coat will let water in and, depending on the core structure, could cause rot, delamination, and all sorts of nasty things to develop. If the breakage is near the bow and under the fairlead (your bow sprit thingy) there are significant->extreme forces acting in this area. I would decline this vessel on that point alone! In a worst case this can and has led to the deck separating from the hull.

But you also say that there is damage around the area of the winch eye from the trailer. Again this is a point of massive force distribution and added to that, it must cope with being pulled onto the trailer too. For example on my boat that area is made up from about 3 cubic feet of epoxy and blocks of wood forming one huge lump under the bow. Through that is a two foot, 15mm diameter threaded stainless steel rod onto which the eye is attached. Your case suggests that there will be ongoing concerns from this area, as mentioned above, and possibly that the boat doesn't fit the trailer properly.

If the boat is not fitted to the correct trailer then it is possible it has had its shape deformed.

As for the rest, the creature comforts will be a choice you would make. But I would suggest going for the auminium one. At some time in the future you might find that you wanted something with a cabin, but for now I think you might be going on day trips more.

One important reason for having a cabin and the reason I agreed to having one on Beatrice is that you can get in out of the sun on really hot days, and if it is blowy its nice to have a place you can shelter. Overnighting happens less often than people plan for.

[5teve]

Being in Esperance and down here reg for the last 20 odd years. Glass hulls break and are a drama to repair. Ally is much more suited for ocean going and heavy weather and is also easily repaired. If you talk to most of the serious fishermen down here 99% will say gey ally.
I have no real bias but being an off shore rig you are looking for I would go ally.
The Stacers are a beautiful boat and really well designed. A great compromise for family vs fishing.
I will be buying a Stacer or Razorline (Albany built boats) when I can afford one.

Thanks Craig.. i know you can have issues with GRP boats especially with cracks.. and its something i was looking hard for on the hull.. other than the obvious stuff it was hard to tell the hull from a 2003 reef runner i had seen.. so im happy it had been looked after. the stacers seem to struggle for published information but as i have said the reviews that are there are very complimentary. Im not sure that the older stacers are quite up to the standard of the new ones finish and looks wise but its still a nice boat with huge deck space!


is the carribean trailer a drive on?
could/should/might be--?
this might explain the marks around the winch area.

If you look at the fibreglass boat market, the old haines V17 etc are STILL dragging in good prices,, why? because they were built like tanks, weigh as much as a tank,
but like a tank-- will absorb punishment way beyond the next era of glass boats, which went "lightweight" due to customer requests. enter the dreaded soggy bottom syndrome:o;):D

it is a drive on trailer Pedro yes... however he never 'drove' it on there due to all the crap being dragged into the engine when you do this. im fairly happy this boat is also built alonk the tank lines... and im sure the damage is pretty superficial.


Right then.

Glass or aluminium, it doesn't matter if you are going offshore. Think of how many yachts sail the world and how many of those are glass these days, nearly all of them, and very few are aluminium. If you are a fisherman, and I have been one, you want something you can bash about, that doesn't cost too much to repair and in fact can be repaired simply and effectively, if not attractively - one skipper I had used to pour concrete into the bilge to stop leaks :eek: very effective and added good ballast but the purists would freak.

However, your description of the damage is an area of concern, especially in the places you talk about. These are major structural features in a plastic boat and if they are weakened it will cause more serious issues to develop. Cracks in gel coat will let water in and, depending on the core structure, could cause rot, delamination, and all sorts of nasty things to develop. If the breakage is near the bow and under the fairlead (your bow sprit thingy) there are significant->extreme forces acting in this area. I would decline this vessel on that point alone! In a worst case this can and has led to the deck separating from the hull.

But you also say that there is damage around the area of the winch eye from the trailer. Again this is a point of massive force distribution and added to that, it must cope with being pulled onto the trailer too. For example on my boat that area is made up from about 3 cubic feet of epoxy and blocks of wood forming one huge lump under the bow. Through that is a two foot, 15mm diameter threaded stainless steel rod onto which the eye is attached. Your case suggests that there will be ongoing concerns from this area, as mentioned above, and possibly that the boat doesn't fit the trailer properly.

If the boat is not fitted to the correct trailer then it is possible it has had its shape deformed.

As for the rest, the creature comforts will be a choice you would make. But I would suggest going for the auminium one. At some time in the future you might find that you wanted something with a cabin, but for now I think you might be going on day trips more.

One important reason for having a cabin and the reason I agreed to having one on Beatrice is that you can get in out of the sun on really hot days, and if it is blowy its nice to have a place you can shelter. Overnighting happens less often than people plan for.

Thanks once again disco.. your ongoing info is always helpful to me :D apart from the fact im STILL jealous that a) you have the space to build a boat and b) you built a boat!

The bowsprit or fairlead as you called it im pretty sure isnt structural i think its a moulded section thats added to the cabin roof. it obviously lends some strength but would be uncomfortable saying it would weaken it significantly. chances are that the cracks are just deep cosmetic paint cracks.

The trailer was new when the boat was new and seems to suit it perfectly... i cant quite work out where the damage has come from but it is around the same level as the roller at the front so maybe it has just taken a bit of a battering on the roller.. the front must be made of a huge section of GRP as the boat does get dragged up regularly on the eye and i had a bit of a tap around it and it is solid section most of the way up to probably more than 50mm from the leading point of the V the only thing i was concerned about was the chips etc causing sogginess.

the only creature comforts it really has over the stacer is the lockable cuddy compared to the open cuddy (lockable one possibly being slightly larger), the better ride of the grp and padding everywhere! all the rest are just practicalities i guess.. overnighters can still be done on the stacer as it has the full covers too... im yet to check them out tho... dealer is going to get mighty fed up with me being so pernickity!

strangely they both need the same creature comforts adding too... dual batteries, stereo, chart plotter etc... so just looking into these also now..

hopefully i can get the stacer out tomorrow morning and see what its like... if not its going to be early next week! we will probably follow that up with a run in the carribean as the seller will take us out at anytime...the dealer has 2 others that are waiting to hear what happens with the stacer too...

Thanks once again guys

Steve

[CraigE]

As you have said the older Stacer finish is not as good as the later models, but still good boats although a little ragged. The new ones are beautiful to get ou on which is why I want one. Just need $55k for a new one.
5 years ago I would have bought a glass hulled boat as a preference, but with the later model ally boats my opinion has changed, especially for a fishing and rough sea boat.
Good luck with your search and I am sure whatever you buy you will be happy with.
Cheers
CraigE