Why should I consider a Land Rover instead of a LandCruiser?

[Ashes]

Hopefully my intro gives you some idea why I'm here...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=640022#post640022

I've recently started the search for a 4x4 and a lot of the general advice I'm getting leads me down the path to a LandCruiser or Patrol. I'm pretty sure I'm going to avoid the 3.0TD Patrol due to their reputation. Thought I'd come here for an unbiased view on the Land Rover!!

I have a family of 5 so a vehicle with 7-8 seats would be real handy at times when you need to carry an extra passenger or 2. Vehicle will mainly be a weekend driver but I do want to do a big semi round Aus trip with the family next year of the year after (Vic, SA, WA, NT) so it needs to be pretty big to live out of for 6-8 weeks and I want something more than capable of getting into (and importantly out of) the Gorge areas. Not looking to do real difficult terrain but I want a reliable and capable offroader. Must be an automatic so the Mrs can drive it. Would also prefer a Turbo Diesel but am open on this if the running cost equations aren't terribly bad.

Anyways, at the moment I'm faced with spending around $37-$40k on a 2000ish Landcruiser TD but I keep seeing 03/04 Disco's with better fitout, lower K's for less money.

What are the pro's and con's of the Disco vs' the Landcruiser? Why should I buy the Disco?

[Quiggers]

The LandCruiser is a much bigger vehicle than the Discovery, how old (or big) are your passengers?

GQ

[Ashes]

Kids are currently 10, 7 and 5.

In terms of size are you talking about cabin space, boot space or both?

[Redback]

I would say the (and i might get grief for this) Cruiser would be the better choice mainly because of it's size, with 5 people living out of the car for 6 to 8 weeks you could be a bit cramped in a Disco, the Cruiser is so much bigger inside.

Probably better suited for a big family if all the gear is going to be in the car.

If the D3 was one of your choices then that's a different story, that would be the only choice in my mind, it's the only genuine 7 seater on the market, not 5 adults and 2 kids but will fit 7 adults in comfort.

I was doing the excact same thing as you 3 years ago, choosing between the same 3 4WDs, i ended up getting the Disco and haven't regretted a single day since, but i tow a camper so room in the car wasn't a big priority and there are only 3 of us, most of the gear is in the camper.

Baz.

[Scallops]

In all honesty, I'd suggest that a major reason we here on AULRO have Land Rovers is because we love them - that is not to say they are not extremely capable and have other advantages - they are, and they do - but in terms of your criteria, I'd suggest you get the Troopy or similar because I imagine it's the best choice for you

But if you want to appreciate your vehicle, become one with your vehicle, and if you look at these things as more than a skin deep issue - then you will find more charisma in a Land Rover's wheel nut than in any Japanese 4X4. If things such as these matter to you - look into LR vehicles - otherwise - get the Toyota.

[ak]

Yes I agree with Baz for that sort of money it would be a D2 and D2's are not as big on the inside - load space wise as they look. There are four of us why wife and two daughters 8 and 10 and we only just have enough room when we go away if we are not towing a trailer.

[RonMcGr]

If you are not a total Land Rover fan, buy the Toyota Land Cruiser. It is a bigger vehicle with a larger luggage area.
It will be easier to get serviced and parts everywhere. Every second Property owner has one.

However if you want class, style, exceptional off road capability and a good ride, Discovery.

[dmdigital]

Firstly with the trip if you do intend to go to any remote regions then buy a diesel. ULP is not always available at communities and also in some areas (eg the Alice) there is only Opal available.

As for size a Disco is a great vehicle for long trips however it definitely isn't as big as a Cruiser. That said if you are going to get anything where you are putting people in the very rear seats you loose all luggage space. This means either a trailer or rof rack is needed.

As for other things to consider if you do get a Cruiser get a turbo diesel or the economy poor. Also Cruisers have half the service interval and can cost more for parts than a Disco. May come as a surprise, but I've done comparisons with Cruiser owners and watched them squirm.

I would say your biggest issue is space though.

[Utemad]

I know the load space of a D2 is longer than a D1 but for a weekend trip my wife and I can fill the load space (with the rear seats folded up so a 2 seater) in our D1. We do have an 80L fridge though.

The price difference between the D2 and the Landcruiser you could probably buy a camper trailer. There is your space issue solved.

[Quiggers]

Kids are currently 10, 7 and 5.

In terms of size are you talking about cabin space, boot space or both?


I have 3 kids, 16, 14 and 10. They're tall (relatively), they find the Disco a bit cramped, width wise.

But as your kids are yet to get to the teenage era, as they're younger, I'd go the Disco.

You'll be travelling with them for many days and nights, ask them (and the missus) what they want to ride in....

Being a kid expert:D the disco is considered 'very cool' and more loved (by many kid passengers) than some other 'parents' vehicles:twisted:

...you may even find a late(ish) D2 with the onboard DVD setup.

put in cargo barrier and a shelf and you can stack a heap of gear in a Disco...

as the missus will drive your choice, get her to spend some time driving both vehicles...at speed too!

one is rather noisy at speed, the other is not...;) one is a truck, the other is a nice ride...

GQ

[Ashes]

Thanks so far for the replies. Looks like you guys are working as hard as me today...:D

I appreciate the honest replies regarding LC's from this forum.

I must admit I hadn't even looked at the Discovery 3's. Comparing a 2005 D3 with a 2002-03 LC is a real eye opener at about the same price point when comparing features. Similar external dimensions. Obviously still a price premium for the Turbo Diesel as is also very much the case for the LC.

Why do these big Land Rovers come with such small fuel tanks? The range on the petrol model must be woeful.

[keith]

They are made in england and you can fall off the edge if you drive too far

[mcrover]

I would seriously consider if you are going to do long outback trips on a regular basis getting a live axel front 100 series or a 4.2 Partol both in Turbo Diesel but you still will have the problem with them being manual except for the patrol in the TI model.

Failing that, you could always teach the Mrs how to drive a manual and buy a TD5 Defender (I cant believe I said that) but Im not sure that you can get the rear/rear seats.

No matter what you get in the Jap lines, they are still exy to fix and service and will be a bit more exy to run.

Good luck

[tombraider]

I'll add some more info here to ponder...

6-8 week trip, fully laden will push *any* (excluding Defender) 4wd over GVM making your insurance void and you liable in an accident.

It can void your 3rd party as well meaning those injured in a mishap arent covered.

If your doing a long trip, reconsider a trailer (a proper offroad one) and evaluate what you carry.

Wives are notorious for overloading a vehicle :angel:

I've done a 4 week, 4 person trip in a Disco 1 with a roof rack...

Then I did an Easter trip and let the wife pack...
That filled the entire vehicle, back seats, floor etc.. for 2 people :(

Considering your childrens ages, a late D2a would be great.

Add a roof pod/sack for light gear and shelving in the cargo area and you'd be right.

If your carrying a pile of gear, go the trailer....

Oh and for the record, I carry more gear than my mates cruiser on the same trips.... No problem. Its about packing logically.

[tombraider]

Why do these big Land Rovers come with such small fuel tanks? The range on the petrol model must be woeful.

New 200 series LC has a 90litre tank otherwise it cant carry anything...

and the 200series LC has a capacity of approx 500kg now...

Landcruiser "King of the School Crossing" :cool:

[mojo]

Failing that, you could always teach the Mrs how to drive a manual and buy a TD5 Defender



:BigThumb: That was going to be my suggestion! He's got 12/18 months, that should be (almost) long enough to teach a female to drive a manual shouldn't it? :wasntme: :D

[BMKal]

Having had a 100 Series Landcruiser, four Prado's and two Disco's over recent years (current drive is a D2 Td5), I would still recommend a late model well optioned D2 Td5 Diesel (unless of course your budget will stretch to a D3 TdV6).

Agree that the D2 is not quite as roomy inside as the Landcruiser, but much more "useable" space than the Prado. I'd take note of Tombraider's comments about how much load you want to put in the vehicle in the first place. I recently saw a D2 with a well designed set of drawers, storage shelves etc in the back etc including a reasonably large fridge, and I would defy anyone to fit much more in a Landcruiser than could be stowed in a well kitted out D2.

On long trips, I tow a camper trailer and carry minimum in the wagon, so this is not really an issue. Where the Landrover comes into its own, compared to its Japanese competitors, is comfort, running / maintenance cost and fuel economy. The Prado for example, has 2 x 90 litre fuel tanks. My D2 has a single 95 litre fuel tanks. It's 600km from Kalgoorlie to Perth. The Prado was changing to the reserve tank roughly on arrival in Perth. The D2 will make it to Perth and half way back on a single tank. I drive both at the same speed using cruise control for most of the trip (admittedly the Prado was V6 Petrol).

Don't get me wrong - the Toyota is a good option. But for me, one of the biggest advantages that Toyota have is retention of value for re-sale over about a 2 - 3 year period. Over a longer period, this advantages starts to evaporate, as the Toyota will start to lose value more quickly. For reliability, despite what you might hear elsewhere, I would say that the two brands are equal. I have never had to spend any major dollars on any of the Toyotas or either of the Landrovers, and I've put a lot of K's on all of them. None of them has ever left me stranded.

Definitely given the choice, I'd go for a D3 TdV6 (but have to wait a bit longer before I can afford one). Would not even consider the Nissan - I've never had one, but know personally of too many people who have had major problems with them - none of these people still have Nissans.

But whatever you choose, you're on the right track in at least asking around and seeking honest unbiased opinions - and you will get that on this forum. Best of luck and enjoy whatever you choose.

[Ashes]

The Mrs can actually drive a manual but she chooses not to. She will try to avoid it at all costs and just wouldn't be confident unless I was sitting next to her to get her out of any problems.

If I'm going to spend biggish to me $'s on a truck then I'd certainly want one that she was comfortable driving. Comes in handy also if you've had a few too many sherbets at a BBQ!:p

The creature comforts and safety features (8 airbags) certainly look good and would go over well with the Minister for finance... Turbo Diesel for economy,power and longetivity, resale, would be the obvious option. A truck that is 2yo with reasonably low K's is also attractive as apposed to a fairly high KM LC for the same price. Finding the $'s for it...5yr novated lease..hmmmmm..possible

How practical is towing an offroad trailer with the D3 from Broome/Darwin via the Gibb River Road or similar + excursions off the track to see the sights?

I've got no experience towing a trailer and very limited 4wd experience (both which I'll fix with some training at a club).

If I can see this as a practical option, I'll investigate further. Regardless of Disco or LC I think the loading of the vehicle for 5 people (3 girls) is going to be a problem without a trailer on a really big trip.

[mcrover]

Mate the D3 is good at everything, it would have to be the most versatile new 4wd on the market today though with all the creature comforts and drivability comes electronics but you cant avoid that in any vehicals these days.

That in my opinion is a draw back as with mechanical componants, generally you can fix them enough to get you on your way but with electronics, if it's stuffed it's stuffed.

Would be a nice comfy trip in a TDV6 Disco though and with a camper (which it would tow easilly) would solve any luggage issues.

The 4wd training is a great idea no matter what you get if you havnt done much before because it is easy to go beyond your skill level when off road with something as simple as a change in the weather a simple track can turn into an extreme track pretty quick.

Good luck and test drive everything you can get your hands on and dont make up your mind too quick.

[Jeff]

Why do these big Land Rovers come with such small fuel tanks? The range on the petrol model must be woeful.

They don't need the massive reserves the L-C needs, I drove a base model n/a diesel L-C recently and was surprised at the amount of fuel it used and how uncomfortable the front seats were. It was quieter than my 300 TDi Defender and wider but not as enjoyable to drive.

Jeff

:rocket:

[landrovermick]

Mate not trying to be a smart **** - but if you have to ask, then dont worry about it go off and buy the japanese piece of crap and enjoy it - Land Rovers - unfortunatley are an enthusiasts vehicle anyone else just wont get it and just wont be happy..... imho!

[dobbo]

I don't know of many people who have circumnavigated the Earth in a Nissan or LandCruiser, there may be though.

Hit the net there are lots of people doing it in Disco's and Defenders.

[Disco_owner]

They are made in england and you can fall off the edge if you drive too far

lol :D

[muddydigger]

I dont think any one here is going to convince you to buy a LandRover what ever model. You either want one or you dont. Landrovers are for enthusiasts, especially the older ones. The mere fact you ask us to convince you, would indicate to me what ever we say you will no doubt buy a cruiser or Patrol any way but you will allways wonder!
G to any given Car yard near you with Alndrovers for sale and take one for a test drive. If its the vehicle for you it will convince you anyway. Then ifts what you want and your having thoughts on reliability then come and ask us, but Ill give you this tip, they are no more prone to break down than anything which has a combustion engine to motivate it.

[camel_landy]

OK guys... If you're running out of space, you're carrying too much ****! If you have a large vehicle, you get lazy and are then tempted to carry too many 'creature comforts'.

All that extra weight puts extra strain on the vehicle and increases the chance of failures.

Me and my family (wife & 2x kids) lived out of our 110 for 12mths while travelling. Granted, it's a slightly larger vehicle but not by much and we were gone for longer into more remote areas.

/SOAPBOX OFF. ;)

LR vs Cruiser... I'd say that it probably would come down to which one you're more comfortable with, the logistics (spares, fuel, servicing, etc...) and if you find the right vehicle for the price.

I stick to LR as I know them very well but I wouldn't have a problem with a cruiser. That said, when I was originally planning my 12mth trip, I had the option of doing it in a Disco 2... It's just that I found the right 110 before I found the right D2.

M

[PAT303]

When I bought my Defender in 98 I looked at the big picture.How much to buy,running cost,how easy to drive etc.I have driven it almost around Oz,and have never regretted my choice.Later we added a D1 and have done one trip for 2 weeks with 5 people 3 adults 2 kids and have no worries fitting everything in it.If you have more room the boss just finds things to fill it with.I drive LC's at work and it is supprising just how much better the LR's drive and the seats are miles better.You have to decide which vehicle is better for more than just a trip away,you have to live with it.Sit at any car park and watch women try and park LC's and patrols.Ask yourself why are the women driving them and not the men,because they cost to much to drive to work each day,also don't believe you can buy parts and get service with Toyota everywhere,they have to order in parts too,you would be supprised at the amount of parts that have to be brought over from Japan. Pat

[CraigE]

2007 Defender. 7 seater available. Tough. Plenty of load space. Wahtever you get if its a 7 seater to use you are going to need a trailer. Enough said.

[Ashes]

I dont think any one here is going to convince you to buy a LandRover what ever model. You either want one or you dont. Landrovers are for enthusiasts, especially the older ones. The mere fact you ask us to convince you, would indicate to me what ever we say you will no doubt buy a cruiser or Patrol any way but you will allways wonder!
G to any given Car yard near you with Alndrovers for sale and take one for a test drive. If its the vehicle for you it will convince you anyway. Then ifts what you want and your having thoughts on reliability then come and ask us, but Ill give you this tip, they are no more prone to break down than anything which has a combustion engine to motivate it.

A tad unfair but no worries muddy. You don't know me yet.

Definately haven't made my mind up. I wouldn't be here if I had a model fixed in my mind. I'm still very much at the procrastination phase and will be for some time to come. Until now I had wrongly assumed the D3 was just a basic upgrade of the D2 and hadn't even looked at them. They were also outside my initial price zone which the more I look the higher I go... I'm rapidly moving in my thinking from buying the most practical car for my potential trip to one that I'll truly enjoy driving wherever it goes. A mate of mine has a Disco TD5 and I trust his judgement that it is a great piece of kit and I do enjoy the ride in it. This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to dismiss the Disco so readily.

I framed the topic in this way to ensure I got a equal dose of LR bias to put some of the LC bias in perspective. While there is some obvious LR bias here, I really appreciate the no BS responses.

What I've learn't so far is
- mixed responses on the comfort of a TD5 for a family of 5 on a long trip. I need to have another good look at the TD5 with space in mind. It will be cheaper initially but with a growing family it may become a bit cramped later on.
- D3 is bigger than the D2 and packed with some really neat gear as standard. Compares pretty well with later model LC's. Comfort level sounds better. If the $'s can stretch to a D3 sounds like you get a pretty handy vehicle.
- Consider a trailer for the big trip. Hadn't even thought about this...more research:)
- Smaller tank as standard in the LR but if getting a diesel not as big an issue (could be fixed by a couple of extra cans in a trailer as backup for long hauls).
- I definatealy need to get out and take a D3 for a test drive.

I don't think we will do a huge number of offroad trips or long tours but when it does go out I do want a vehicle that I know will get me from A to B via Z without any dramas and if I can do it in reasonable comfort...all the better.

[dobbo]

2 adults and 3 kids fit nicely into a D2. You just have to travel smart.

If I were to choose again I would have got a Defender. For me they are more practical for my families needs.

[DiscoStew]

Note that I am not a motor enthusiast but I did always know that I wanted a LR. I have no idea why as I had no exposure to them as a kid. It was like a calling. I think this is what people are referring to when they say if you have to ask....

However my wife did not have preconceptions and it is REALLY important to me that she is comfortable with it in case for some reason we are out bush and I cannot drive.

So I took her for a test drive in a Prado and a Patrol and she was just overcome by the size of them. Within a minute of driving the disco she was hooked. Man did I give out a sigh of relief. Couldn't get her into a Defender as that was her idea of a jalopy and way too similar to something out of "The Gods Must Be Crazy".

We also tow a camper trailer so space is not really an issue. But I like things organised so space is an issue!!!!

I make full use of the height of the disco cargo bay by having two stacks of five drawers, just the cheap plastic ones and you do need a cargo barrier to do this but on your sort of trips that is mandatory for safety reasons IMHO. And I am surprised at how much I can fit into the side compartments in the rear. Getting the balance between not overpacking and not doing laundry every two days is the problem.

No-one has really answered your question about the feasibility of taking a trailer to the places you mentioned and I cannot help there but I have read there are many places you do not want to do that eg dessert crossings, some parts of Cape York. I have met people who take a trailer and if they are doing a side trip not suitable for trailers they park the trailer somewhere safe and take a small amount of camping gear. Someone here may have a comment on how wise that is.

And finally, don't just focus on improving your 4WD driving skills, also work on your mechanics skills. It seems that a little bit of knowledge on how to work on your car yourself goes a long way once you get outside the major centres. And that is where this forum is most useful, the people here are amazingly generous with their knowledge and time, even with a motor-dunce like me.

[DiscoStew]

I don't think we will do a huge number of offroad trips or long tours but when it does go out I do want a vehicle that I know will get me from A to B via Z without any dramas and if I can do it in reasonable comfort...all the better.

At the risk of getting caned by my fellow AULROians....

If you do not intend to go off-road then there are plenty of cheap second hand decent trailers out there.

beware though as you might not think you are going off-road BUT you will most likely find yourself on long stretches of dirt roads. So what you may ask, any car can handle a dirt road. But dirt roads = corrugated roads and they will destroy a standard on-road trailer very quickly and there are several threads in this forum demonstrating that.

[Slunnie]

Hopefully my intro gives you some idea why I'm here...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=640022#post640022

I've recently started the search for a 4x4 and a lot of the general advice I'm getting leads me down the path to a LandCruiser or Patrol. I'm pretty sure I'm going to avoid the 3.0TD Patrol due to their reputation. Thought I'd come here for an unbiased view on the Land Rover!!

I have a family of 5 so a vehicle with 7-8 seats would be real handy at times when you need to carry an extra passenger or 2. Vehicle will mainly be a weekend driver but I do want to do a big semi round Aus trip with the family next year of the year after (Vic, SA, WA, NT) so it needs to be pretty big to live out of for 6-8 weeks and I want something more than capable of getting into (and importantly out of) the Gorge areas. Not looking to do real difficult terrain but I want a reliable and capable offroader. Must be an automatic so the Mrs can drive it. Would also prefer a Turbo Diesel but am open on this if the running cost equations aren't terribly bad.

Anyways, at the moment I'm faced with spending around $37-$40k on a 2000ish Landcruiser TD but I keep seeing 03/04 Disco's with better fitout, lower K's for less money.

What are the pro's and con's of the Disco vs' the Landcruiser? Why should I buy the Disco?

I love the LandRovers, but I would probably get a LandCruiser in your situation. If you're looking for sheer internal real estate, the Landcruiser has it, the LandRover doesn't and you'll be spending a lot of time very close to everybody else in the 4WD for quite a while. The 4.2TD Patrol I think is also worth a look and bullet proof, but the Cruiser feels roomier, the dash is lower and visibility better - not as good as a LandRover in this respect.

[Outback 1]

i bought my disco about 2 months ago (my first lr) i have done nearly 15000 k's since with no probs so far .
i'd recommend a Tdi to anyone:BigThumb:
it had 250000 on the clock when i got it!

[muddydigger]

Gday Ashes yes it was proberly a tad unfair, past experiances show that people who are thinking about landrovers over the jap stuff invaribably get scared off by the jap owners and buy the cruiser or Patrol. Not that theres any thing wrong with them they are not bad trucks at all and the later ones are pretty damn good.
Like I said take one fro a drive, it will sell its self.
Good luck with what ever you decide.

[Redback]

One point about the 4.2l Patrol, it's NOT available in auto, the only auto Patrol is the 3.0ltr.

Baz.

[DirtyDawg]

If You have to ask that question you shouldn't be here:angel:

[PAT303]

I think you are going to make the right choice in the end because you are not rushing into it.Drive all the vehicles and decide.See if they fit into your garage and if the wife can live with it.The cost of buying and running two LR's,and the fact they are very reliable and I can work on them and get parts anywhere has kept me at that brand.LC's are good vehicles,I drive them all the time but I do not want the cost. Pat

[29dinosaur]

Good question Ashes and I think you have a great variety of responses. Good luck with your deliberations and feel free to ask as many questions as you like. No such thing as a stupid question - only stupid answers.....;)

[JohnE]

Different suggestions and different posts,
IMHO, if I had a larger family than I have now, there is no way i would touch a disco, defender maybe but disco no, there is no boot space, your flat out putting in a picnic lunch for a family of 5.
when I had my pajero, it had a genuine 7 seats, my shepherd sat in the back seats with the windows, my son had the middle seats, and there was still enough room behind the dogs seat for our luggage when we went away.
I would go japanese , disco's are not family cars.



john

[Pedro_The_Swift]

kitchen sink not fit John?:p

[Redback]

Different suggestions and different posts,
IMHO, if I had a larger family than I have now, there is no way i would touch a disco, defender maybe but disco no, there is no boot space, your flat out putting in a picnic lunch for a family of 5.
when I had my pajero, it had a genuine 7 seats, my shepherd sat in the back seats with the windows, my son had the middle seats, and there was still enough room behind the dogs seat for our luggage when we went away.
I would go japanese , disco's are not family cars.





john

D2s are a family 4WD:p

People misstake the D1 and D2 as having the same load space in the cargo section, when in fact the D2 has almost double the load space of the D1, in fact it has more load space in the cargo section than the Patrol and Prado, i know this cause i measured them, it's only marginal on the Patrol because the Disco is a tad taller inside than the Patrol but it's alot bigger than the Prado, as it's wider and deeper inside the cargo section, looks can be deceiving as the Prado looks bigger from the outside.

Same goes for the D1 & D2, the D2 is alot bigger inside.

Baz.

[Barra1]

D2s are a family 4WD:p

People misstake the D1 and D2 as having the same load space in the cargo section, when in fact the D2 has almost double the load space of the D1, in fact it has more load space in the cargo section than the Patrol and Prado, i know this cause i measured them, it's only marginal on the Patrol because the Disco is a tad taller inside than the Patrol but it's alot bigger than the Prado, as it's wider and deeper inside the cargo section, looks can be decieving as the Prado looks bigger from the outside.

Same goes for the D1 & D2, the D2 is alot bigger inside.

Baz.

Absolutely.;)

Space and Useable Space are quite different. Other vehicles have the illusion of space but IMHO the Disco 2 has the greatest useable space. (Excluding D3/Defender).

But like others have said - the Disco3 has it all for a bloke in your situation.

[JohnE]

should have put a disclaimer on mine,

I of course was only talking on my experience with my D1.

pedro the sink and the trampoline dog bed and the stroller sat in the roof rack basket!! The only thing i didn;t take was the priscillla queen of the desert giant shoe.

But i still reckon there is more usable room in the japanese beasties.


Why buy a landrover? because you've/I've always wanted one thats my excuse!





john

[29dinosaur]

Why buy a landrover? because you've/I've always wanted one thats my excuse!

john



Yes - that's partly my excuse. Have owned or driven several varieties of toymotors: 4runner, older landcruisers 70series, first issue of prado. Have been stupid enough to buy Disco D1 because of silly romantic feeling (but also because they are cheap for what you get). Comfortable - yes, noisey - yes, didn't check it properly when purchased - now undergoing engine rebuild because of head being cooked; own a D1 because of all bad vibes about the electronics on D2 - now sorry didn't buy a D2 td5, as would be great to have more power and space; my subarus have as much floor space as the D1 (but obviously D1 can be packed vertically) .... but D1 is comfy for a 6'2" bloke with a bad back.

[PAT303]

Go to your local library and in the Jan issue of overlander there is a article on 7 seaters and the D3 is a clear winner.They also mention that the LC and Patrol don't have alot of space in relation to the exterior size and there was alot of Toyota people complaining about LR's winning alot of awards and that overlander was bias against Toyota's,I had to smile at that one.The Volvo X70 was a good thing too. Pat

[Jamo]

If you can stretch to the D3, get one! More load space than an LC100 (and LC200) and an allround better vehicle.

If you do go the tojo way, have extra money for new front seats if you want to do long range touring. Admittedly, I have a lower back issue, but I find the front seats of even the top model LC to be very uncomfortable.

[Lucy]

My kids love our Discos, they refuse flat out to travel in my parent's LC100 - they can't see out! And thats half the reason to travel. (they are aged 8 and 7)

[Cap]

Your doing the right thing, taking your time. All I can add to what are excellent posts is test drive, test drive, test drive. I found in the past, the more you drive a vehicle, the better decision you will make. Im not talking about a 30minute drive in each of your options, but take it for a few hours (if you cant, go to another yard and take theirs). As was mentioned here, once you go for a drive (in what ever vehicle) you will know.

Good luck ;)

[T.D.5]

Ashes,
Test em all, & as thoroughly as possible. Tune in to handling, driver visibility, low down power (you will be carrying a fair load & possibly a trailer) & comfort. All diesels return good economy - but can let you down if you drive them with petrol like responses/expectations at lights etc. Given you dont have alot of 4WD experience you will have to adopt a different driving style - this will come over time & will club training support.

I was posed with the same challenge back in 2000 & after much research & testing went LR D2 TD5. I was towing a show car a lot of weekends & the missus & I were sold on comfort, economy & torque. I spent a few $$ on modding my 1st D2 & have now done the same again with my 04 D2. Love em. Tinkering brings on the desire to learn more so I encourage that too.

If you get the calling you will feel it. if you dont no biggie. You'll have gained valuable driving skills & seen a lot more of our fair land than Joe average no matter what ride you choose.

Welcome to 4wheeldriving - feel the experience & encourage others to share.

[PAT303]

You have to admit that LR owners are open-minded and honest.None of the threads have bagged anything. Pat

[UncleHo]

G'day Ashes :)

Why not try the vehicle hire companies, and see if you can hire a D3 or even a DT5 D2 for a week, that will give you a chance to test it on a road trip and even enable you to load it up for a similated trip and then you and the family have an idea of size requirements and comfort, if possible try a D3 and a D2 and if you wish to, then try a LC and Patrol ;) that way you are only spending a fraction of the outlay required to purchase a vehicle which may ultimatly be unsuitable for your needs. but this only MHO:)

cheers

[carjunkieanon]

One further factor to consider is the 'Photo Factor'.

Get a series landie, it'll look fantastic in all the trip photos, posed in desert with kids sitting on the roof.

You can pay off the fuel costs over time, but the photos will last forever. The discomfort during the trip will turn into dinner time stories for decades to come.

+ Mechanically simple. Len Beadell used to say, 'there's no reason it'll break down between here & that tree, & no reason for it to break down between that tree & the next'.

have a great trip with whatever you choose.

[Ashes]

Thanks for all the well considered replies and opinions.

It is becoming obvious that personal experience is pretty valuable and varies person to person.

Plan B kicked into my head tonight on my ride home in the rain...

I don't need a full size people moving 4wd for long tours until mid 2009. What I do really need though is some experience and knowledge.

Plan B looks a bit like the following (forgive the brain dump)

- park the idea of buying a big D3, Landcruiser etc. for another 12-15 months (Saving $45k to $55k in the process).
- relatively soon, buy a smaller but very capable 4WD, eg. Disco 2 for closer to the $20k mark. As there are heaps of these to choose from I'd probably get a pretty good 2002 model with low-moderate K's. I could afford to drive a hard deal as there are quite a few to choose from.
- keep this truck for around 12 months during which time I'd join a club, learn some driving and maintenance skills and get a feel for how pasionate I'll be about this scene. This also gives the family some time to get used to the idea of 4WDing and camping without commiting huge $'s
- the smaller 4WD also would be less daunting for her to drive so she would get some experience.
- Turbo Diesel or V8 not a huge concern as I'd make a decision after 12 months to trade up or out. As basically a 2nd car in that time it would only do around 15000k. Probably the V8 would be better for a shorter time period as it would be a bit quicker around town.
- Selling it after 12 months with only a few more K's shouldn't see too many $'s lost especially if I've driven a hard price initially.
- In 12 months late model D3's, LC's etc will have dropped in price by more $'s than a 2002 Disco.

Breaking this into 2 distinct phases at a lower cost entry point seems to make the decision easier (or at least less financially risky). I think I still want a really neat 4WD for long distance touring but a baby step first seems like a more sensible way to go.

[camel_landy]

To slightly refine that last post of yours....

Get yourself a Disco 1 and learn to drive in that instead. Not only is it cheaper but it's much more basic and you'll learn more. It'll also be a better vehicle to introduce yourself to some of the basics of vehicle mechanics.

Also... Avoid the temptation of "upgradeitus". Suspension lift, big tyres, lockers, etc... They just help compensate for poor driver ability. You'll be amazed at how good the standard vehicle is so if you can learn to drive well without them, just imagine how good you'll be when you become a driving god... ;)

M

[camel_landy]

Also...

Get yourself a copy of the Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide (http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000872.php).

'Kin excellent book and worth every cent.

M

[easo]

If you could afford it, http://www.oka.com.au/ , but very steep.

Just an idea, Easo

[Utemad]

If you could afford it, http://www.oka.com.au/ , but very steep.

Just an idea, Easo

We have one of these at work. Looks like the tour bus version but it is just a panel van type with no windows or seats.

I'd have to look up the receipts but it costs an awful lot to keep it on the road. Admittedly it does tow a large box trailer on some very ordinary roads/tracks in outback Qld 6 months of the year but staff aren't real happy with it.
Not sure how old it is.

Would be a PITA to drive to the shops though :D

[Michael2]

Include your wife & kids in the decision making, that will eliminate any future risk of nagging, as it will give them "ownership" of the decision (don't you love these newfangled words).

Include your wife in the 4WD course. Perhaps after some training and experience, she may concede to a manual, which will expand your options.

Consider vehicle weights and load capacities carefully. For example a fully optioned and loaded Defender weighs as much as a stock LC100. Yes the LC100 has a bigger motor, but by the time you option and load it, it's a lot of weight to carry over rough terrain and it's a lot of weight for IFS. As already stated, in the LC opt for the solid front axle.

Personally, I've driven Melbourne to Darwin & the Kimberley (including the Gibb River Rd) several times, as well as crossed the Simpson in a Series III (1976) Land Rover. The Defender style body is the easiest to live with off road. I've done road trips with the family in a classic (1988) Range Rover, which is a comfortable long distance cruiser (akin to a Discovery). I now have a Tdi Defender, which is my preffered option for 4WDing and Touring (wife & 3 kids).

[Searover]

You need to test drive all your options, thats why i now drive a D3 and not LC 100 TD. I'm still amazed where i've taken it how easy and comfortable they are.

As a newby to the LR brand after owning many Nissan and Toyotas (my last Toyota being the most costly to run, maintaine as well as the most warranty issues) I'm a total convert, so much so as a bush basher there is a 07 Defender on the way.

Good luck an choose what your happy with, with out the peer pressure from the JAP fraternity!!!

[camel_landy]

2 second hand copies on Amazon at $295 & $587 :eek::eek::eek:

...but as I said, it's worth every cent.

M

[George130]

finally read this thread. I'm surprised at some of the posts. He is asking for comments and advice. It's a good idea when you don't know the vehicle.

When I was buying the Defender I was told it's not a commuter and very uncomfortable. Well It's almost 3 years now and I hate drive the 97 ford Fairlane as it's uncomfortable on long trips compared to the Defender. I get numb bum and back aches in cars where I can drive for 10 hours in the Defender and still be fine.

Definatly test drive the vehicles you are thinking about getting.
You could also investigate converting a Defender to Auto. Set up right they are worth it.

[29dinosaur]

You need to test drive all your options, thats why i now drive a D3 and not LC 100 TD. I'm still amazed where i've taken it how easy and comfortable they are.



When you do get to take a LR for a drive in the donga you will be be dumbstruck how capable and comfortable they are - even without all the adds on available. I first drove a friends disco back in 1996 when it was brand new - he took me over a track which I had driven many times in my toyotas and just effortlessly ate it up. You won't be disappointed. Your idea about the D2 is a good one - why not even get a cheap V8 D1 - it will get you going and you won't lose much when you choose to go to a late model td5 or if you are lucky enough to afford one a D3.

[CraigE]

finally read this thread. I'm surprised at some of the posts. He is asking for comments and advice. It's a good idea when you don't know the vehicle.

When I was buying the Defender I was told it's not a commuter and very uncomfortable. Well It's almost 3 years now and I hate drive the 97 ford Fairlane as it's uncomfortable on long trips compared to the Defender. I get numb bum and back aches in cars where I can drive for 10 hours in the Defender and still be fine.

Definatly test drive the vehicles you are thinking about getting.
You could also investigate converting a Defender to Auto. Set up right they are worth it.
Yep, If my TD5 manual ever gives up the ghost, I will be whacking an auto in it.
Edd, what auto did you use and was there much drama with the conversion?
Cheers
Craig

[scrambler]

finally read this thread. I'm surprised at some of the posts. He is asking for comments and advice. It's a good idea when you don't know the vehicle.

When I was buying the Defender I was told it's not a commuter and very uncomfortable. Well It's almost 3 years now and I hate drive the 97 ford Fairlane as it's uncomfortable on long trips compared to the Defender. I get numb bum and back aches in cars where I can drive for 10 hours in the Defender and still be fine.

Definatly test drive the vehicles you are thinking about getting.
You could also investigate converting a Defender to Auto. Set up right they are worth it.
I was also thinking for the use an auto conversion in Defender would be a good thing. And waiting a couple of years then getting an auto box in the Ford-engined Defender might be just the trick - lots of load space, comfortable seats, not too large physically in town, auto for the Mrs. Don't forget you can seat up to 10. I stepped up to a pre-Defender wagon from a Subaru and the footprint is about 30cm or so longer, but the interior space is something else entirely.

[Grumndriva]

I think it has pretty much all been said. I started with Army Landrovers in 67, owned a couple of Series 2As, a Series 3 and a Disco 2. They are enthusiasts' vehicles and like any thoroughbred there is an associated cost. Landcruisers are a very honest vehicle, which is why they are about the only serious working vehicle you ever see in the more remote areas of the country. They didn't become the standard remote area vehicle by being crap. But Land Rovers are just so nice to drive and ... Well who can explain why we drive them? Perhaps we are masochists.

If you just want a vehicle to carry your family and associated gear, I suspect that the greater room and rear seat comfort of the Land Cruiser will make it the right choice. If you want to really enjoy the driving experience, go the Disco. But with that choice you can't go far wrong. Both good vehicles.
Good luck!

[George130]

Yep, If my TD5 manual ever gives up the ghost, I will be whacking an auto in it.
Edd, what auto did you use and was there much drama with the conversion?
Cheers
Craig

Conversion was done by Bruce Davis when he owned the rig so easy conversion for me:).
It is a ZF with valve body control from a Disco. Box was cooked by previous owner and rebuilt with super heavy duty gear. Other problem was the torque converter was 3000rpm when I got it. After clocking up 90,000km I had to rebuild the converter so have had it dialed back to about 2200. Not quite as much take off but then it was daft having a 130 beat the V8 boys off the lights.
All in all I have found it great. The trick would be to buy a good box and shifter to install. Fit a good cooling setup and you are right. I have been told it costs about $9000 to drive it in and have it done for you.

[Ashes]

Researching...test driving...researching...

Have decided to put the purchase off a couple of months until after the family holiday late in January. For the first time in a long time I'm actually going to sell the car I have BEFORE purchasing a replacement....

The truck I've most enjoyed looking at so far has been the D3. I'm struggling to find anything wrong with it for my needs except one thing...the price...

I do need a lower price entry so as muddydigger suggested many pages ago I'll probably end up with a Landcruiser initially. It will probably be a V8 and around the $35k mark. The Turbo Diesel LC would be my preference but is also out of my price range. Down the track (2 or 3 years) I can see myself having another serious look at the D3's when the price drops accordingly for a 4-5yo used model.

[graceysdad]

What about a nice Fender130, plenty room from what I have seen of them, the Discoes and just about every other four wheeler really lack cargo space, specially the patrol, we had a 94 Patrol and it was a seven seater, you had enough room for one dead cat and that was it, so you would need to tow a trailer or have a roof rack, think towing a trailer is really unavoidable for your length of time away from home. Been some talk of Cruisers on Aulro of late, they arent made by Landrover!

[Ashes]

Just going for a trip down memory lane when I found this:D

I ended up getting the D3, June 2009, had to put the trip on hold due to changing jobs but hoping to do a short test run to Robe in November with the kids..

thanks guys:)

[Scallops]

Just going for a trip down memory lane when I found this:D

I ended up getting the D3, June 2009, had to put the trip on hold due to changing jobs but hoping to do a short test run to Robe in November with the kids..

thanks guys:)

That's nice. :) It's good to put the user name to this original post. Glad to hear you got (and like) a Rover.

[Vern]

And what do you think of it?:)

[Chucaro]

You have a dream vehicle :)

[Ashes]

Absolutely loving it:D

Resisted for a couple of months doing anything to it but couldn't help myself over the last few weeks..2nd battery, UHF, air-compressor, more 12v sockets for 2nd row seats and input for the ipod.

Best of all, SWMBO loves it as well. Have done a couple of off road trips in it and extremely capable. Still amazed at the amount of space with the seat down as well as being pretty comfortable when you have 7 adults in it.

[Chucaro]

Did you fitted a small fridge at the back for the bottle of chardonnay? ;)

[Crackerjack]

lol :D

More like you can't afford to fill the tank now, let alone a bigger one.

[Ashes]

Fridge..there's a good idea. Nice cold beer after a long drive while the passengers are unloading the car:p

Have definately found the fuel tank big enough. Being a petrol model, not sure I would like to be filling up more than 80-90 litres at a time:eek:

[dullbird]

Congrats Ashes...good to see you joined the rover family.

Lucky man getting a D3 hoping that will also be my car of choice in the future:)

[spudboy]

Just going for a trip down memory lane when I found this:D

I ended up getting the D3, June 2009, had to put the trip on hold due to changing jobs but hoping to do a short test run to Robe in November with the kids..

thanks guys:)

Thanks for posting a follow up.

It's always interesting to hear how the final decision pans out after all that thinking and evaluating.

Hope you get a good run out of your D3.

Cheers
David

[d2dave]

Just going for a trip down memory lane when I found this:D

I ended up getting the D3, June 2009, had to put the trip on hold due to changing jobs but hoping to do a short test run to Robe in November with the kids..

thanks guys:)

When in Nov will you be in Robe?

I will be there cup weekend with a group from the Landrover club Victoria.

If you are there at the same time we could catch up.

Dave.

[Ashes]

Dave,
same trip hopefully. Still need a couple of things to fall into place as well as having to beg, borrow and steal all the camping gear:D

cheers,
Brian

[Blknight.aus]

no idea where you're at but you're welcome to come and borrow any of my gear if you're in range.

and now that you've owned it for a while....


IF someone else came on the forum and asked the same question you did initially, What reasons would you give them?

[Ashes]

Thanks for the offer on the gear. I’m in Melbourne so that mightn’t work out. I should be able to source most of it from family and local friends hopefully.

Why we ended up considering the LR over the LC?

When we finally got round to seriously committing the $’s and looking at all options the LR best fit our essential criteria which was.

- Minimum of 7 comfortable adult sized seats
- Must seat 5 comfortably in 2 rows (2 adults, 3 kids + room for luggage)
- Family car so mustn’t compromise on safety features

In the end, 4x4 capability wasn’t one of the critical factors as an outback trip wasn’t certain (if it was 4x4 features would have made the list).

SWMBO initially was leaning towards the Mazda CX-9. Nice car but the 2nd row of seats was disappointing. 2 great side seats, middle seat, like the Kluger, hard and narrow.
All the softroaders, Territory, Outalander etc that we looked at, just a bit too small internally and not great seven seat options. Finish and build quality disappointing in some.
Looked at a Prado and LC, the rear seats folding against the side windows was a major putoff. Current model LC just felt way to big, and was very pricey when optioned up. Similar story with the Patrol.

Disco 3 was by far the best 7 seater for comfort, most versatile for luggage space with seats folding flat. Extremely comfortable and SWMBO enjoyed driving it (very critical).

We bought 2nd hand so kept the $’s down and at the end of the day have bought a brilliantly capable 4x4 as a bonus for less than what we would have paid for a near new CX-9.

[VladTepes]

Half yer luck !

[LandieMan]

Well done to everyone involved in this thread... I've just read it end to end and I really enjoyed it.

Congratulations to all involved for their openness and honesty on what could easily have degraded into a Toyota/Land Rover war of words.

Go AULRO !!!, best 4x4 forum on the planet.

Cheers, LandieMan.

[d2dave]

Well done to everyone involved in this thread... I've just read it end to end and I really enjoyed it.

Congratulations to all involved for their openness and honesty on what could easily have degraded into a Toyota/Land Rover war of words.

Go AULRO !!!, best 4x4 forum on the planet.

Cheers, LandieMan.

Here, Here.:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

[Ashes]

Amazing is my assessment. I was genuinely interested in hearing the positives for the LR which I could not get on another popular 4x4 forum.

cheers,
Brian

[d2dave]

Amazing is my assessment. I was genuinely interested in hearing the positives for the LR which I could not get on another popular 4x4 forum.

cheers,
Brian

Brian,
Which forum would this be?

Dave.

[Ashes]

Not this one:D

[discoveryseries1]

land rover has been making 4wd for over 50 years, we chose a land rover initialy over other 4wd because of the comfort in the cab and value for money, compaired to a toyota with 2x the km it was still half the price, we initialy paid 5500 for a d1 and have since done it up with lpg, dule airlockers, wich and bull bar, radio and reconed the engine for lpg and rock crawling, it started off as being cost efective and we have just fallen in love with it and 4w driving, my wife loves how smooth and quiet it is , she uses it to get the kids around town and buy grocerys , and on the weekend i swap the wheels to muddies and go out with the vic land rover club. its a smasher,

back to quality and brands, people will forever fight over who is better and what is the go long after we are all dead, but the one thing that will always be true is a porly maintained car will never be reliabul so if you take care of what ever you chose to buy, and act sensibly, you should not have any problems.

toyota has erned a good reputation and have worked hard for it, but our home will always have a

Land Rover.

[Sith]

buy what you want , you dont have to sit in the back ;)

[discoveryseries1]

[QUOTE=Sith;1085362]buy what you want , you dont have to sit in the back ;)[/QUOTE

what do you mean ?