sell me vista

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Well, they have arrived,,
Crysis and HL2E2,,

and while its not impossible to play them using DX9,, its mucho better with DX10(or so they say).

and to get Dx10 you have to have Vista,

so I have to get Vista.

someone sell me Vista.
with the appropriate AULRO discount;)

[solmanic]

someone sell me Vista.
with the appropriate AULRO discount;)

Do you want someone to actually sell you Vista, or try to sell you on the idea of Vista?

In any case, I can't see any reason to get the 32bit version, since everone is going to need Vista 64 eventually. Besides, if you are planning on using your box for anything serious, 2GB RAM just isn't enough.

On the other hand, I upgraded to Vista 64 a month or so ago and I am truly appalled at the number of MAJOR hardware manufacturers who still don't have Vista 64 drivers or glitches in their apps. Netgear, for one. MYOB for another (security issues courtesy of Vista's stupid, albeit probably necessary user control), and Adobe Acrobat - which just seems to run like CRAP on Vista.

So my sales pitch to anybody considering Vista is - too bad, you're just going to have to get it. But go 64bit because you really only want the pain of upgrading once over.

Now if you are actually looking for a discounted copy of Vista - again, too bad. Microsoft have us all stitched-up tighter than a frog's @rse.

[incisor]

vista 32 is next to painless for most, for get the upgrade version, it = immense pain within weeks.

vista 64, i havent seen any benefit if you are not buying new hardware to go with it.

clean install is the way to nirvana if its vista you want.

149 for home basic
189 for home premium

plus $5 for a power cable...

[WhiteD3]

I've got an XP machine, another Vista (My PC) and one running XP MCE.

Give me XP any day.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

well its sort of steamrolled into a new er, box,,,
(actually I already have the box--)
and I've decided to go to the dark side,,
(cue James Earl Jones)
yep,,, intel,,

a E6750 to be exact, plus
2 X Gainwood Geforce 8600Gt's Golden Samples
GA N680SLI DQ6
2gb of G skill at 1066mhz
a SATAII HD of some description---
not sure if 480 watts will be enough,,,,


so a 64 home premium sounds like the go Inc,,

[incisor]

480 watts wont do it dude....

truepower 550 minimum for that spec..

it will run on 480 but when you have it going full bore it wont cope..

[shorty943]

480 watts wont do it dude....

truepower 550 minimum for that spec..

it will run on 480 but when you have it going full bore it wont cope..

Agreed. My Thermaltake 480 snots it, at two SATA drives and a 7600 nVidea card requiring PSU power. This is on an older 64 bit Athlon, running XP Pro SP2.

Vista is ravenous.


PS. What's with the power cabl

Doesn't matter, it came ESP.
It's to hang one's self with, for being stupid enough to install Vista on a working PC, right?:(

[Grizzly_Adams]

No, it's so he can sell the OEM version and save you hundreds of $$$.

OEM versions must be sold with certain hardware as they are only suppose to be installed on new PC's.

Hence the power cable :)

[QSDT]

I use Vista as an insult = "I hope your PC boots with Vista tomorrow":D

[tombraider]

Pedro, better solution....

Buy a games console.... And get a MAC:wasntme:

[incisor]

No, it's so he can sell the OEM version and save you hundreds of $$$.

OEM versions must be sold with certain hardware.

Hence the power cable :)
the OEM license provides you can sell it with an essential part of a computer, but cant be things like hdd or cpu etc etc or you can sell it preinstalled with a complete system.

power cable is the cheapest bit of gear that legally fits the obligations.

the limitation of the OEM is it is licensed to that particular machine and if you blow a motherboard in a storm or under warranty you have to reactivate and that normally means a call to their support team and the activation robots and you cant do an upgrade install.

[EchiDna]

the limitation of the OEM is it is licensed to that particular machine and if you blow a motherboard in a storm or under warranty you have to reactivate and that normally means a call to their support team and the activation robots and you cant do an upgrade install.

wah!! had not heard that little gem before...
another 'tweak' microsoft has given us for 'free'.

any reason you can think of to go for vista ultimate over and above premium?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

**sigh** glad all this isn't a problem I have to deal with :D :D

[HangOver]

a E6750 to be exact, plus
2 X Gainwood Geforce 8600Gt's Golden Samples
GA N680SLI DQ6
2gb of G skill at 1066mhz
a SATAII HD of some description---
not sure if 480 watts will be enough,,,,


Sounds like a bit of a beast that would be a Jag v12 if it were an engine:D

At the moment I would prob not go for the 64bit OS though it's no real improvement or draw back either way, I would prob just get which ever is cheaper.
I know the net. admin bloke has a problem at times getting drivers for 64 but that's server stuff I don't know how hard it is or not for Vista. We are still an XP outfit, (for now)


**sigh** glad all this isn't a problem I have to deal with

It's no problem it's EVOLUTION :D:D

[Grizzly_Adams]

I have no problem with 64-bit and actively encourage it in the home arena.

The more people use 64-bit, the more vendors will be forced to write drivers for it and the more we can migrate away from the limited 32-bit architecture :)

[HangOver]

I have no problem with 64-bit and actively encourage it in the home arena.

The more people use 64-bit, the more vendors will be forced to write drivers for it and the more we can migrate away from the limited 32-bit architecture :)

Yes in a perfect world 64 is much better but you hit the nail on the head. It's prob not going to be main stream for another year or two ie all drives/software etc taking advantage of 64.

So at the moment it doesn treally matter either way.
Is 32 cheaper than 64?

[incisor]

no, same price, 32bit is way more stable at the moment, many of the drivers that are out there for 64bit are very unstable...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yea,, but I dont want to have to do this again in 12 months time

[Grizzly_Adams]

All I can say is that I run 64-bit and have not noticed any of the instability that Inc. has mentioned (though he will have more exposure to it than I, for sure).

The baddest I have had is the odd video driver crash and Vista has recovered from that wonderfully now that they've moved the video drivers out of Kernel space and into user space :) No reboot, no closed programs - just an error saying the video driver had crashed and been restarted :)

With newer kit I honestly expect you'd be ok - but once again Inc. would have more exposure in support that I would.

The only thing that took me a while to get drivers for was my UPS, everything else was supported when I got Vista-64 4 months ago. UPS is supported now so I'm happy :)

One thing to remember about 64-bit though is that M$ only supports 1 architecture back - so you can run 16-bit programs on a 32-bit OS but you can't run 16-bit programs on a 64-bit OS.

[Navig8]

yea,, but I dont want to have to do this again in 12 months time

I say that every year around July ;)

[incisor]

yea,, but I dont want to have to do this again in 12 months time
buy an 8 core mac :P

[incisor]

All I can say is that I run 64-bit and have not noticed any of the instability that Inc. has mentioned (though he will have more exposure to it than I, for sure).
me thinks you might have put a little more thought into the supported hardware list than most, grizzly

what amazes me is the amount of trust many still put into advert packed magazine articles...

some of the video drivers out for it are astonishingly poor. i have had 2 identical machines setup side by side, one 64 the other 32 and the difference was very clearly visible with the naked eye... thats when i decided to put 32bit on my work machines and leave the 64bit for the customers that demanded it. I will spend the 150 bucks when they get it right... i need reliability not amusement.

my personal work machine is the highest specced machine in the shop (oddly enough :P) being a quad core with 4g ram and an 8600gt and it rates at 5.9 with the 16mb sata holding it back from scoring over 6.

but it makes my spread sheets fly so i am happy :P

vista is very very stable on my machine, more stable than xp i would contend, but i still enjoy getting home and settling down to an evenings work on my poor old imac....

[Grizzly_Adams]

me thinks you might have put a little more thought into the supported hardware list than most, grizzly

what amazes me is the amount of trust many still put into advert packed magazine articles...
That's possible, though I certainly would never buy one of the pre-packaged P.o.S. that's advertised :eek:



my personal work machine is the highest specced machine in the shop (oddly enough :P) being a quad core with 4g ram and an 8600gt and it rates at 5.9 with the 16mb sata holding it back from scoring over 6.

That could be tricky, highest score possible at the moment is only 5.9 :angel::) They left it low so they could increase it as time (and new hardware) goes by.... see http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/f59082f4-6385-4a61-ba7e-2de9625a780a1033.mspx

[29dinosaur]

my personal work machine is the highest specced machine in the shop (oddly enough :P) being a quad core with 4g ram and an 8600gt and it rates at 5.9 with the 16mb sata holding it back from scoring over 6.

but it makes my spread sheets fly so i am happy :P



Boy I can only get a miserable 3.0 on my compaq laptop with vista home basic.But it was a cheap dick smith type.

[incisor]

That's possible, though I certainly would never buy one of the pre-packaged P.o.S. that's advertised :eek:


That could be tricky, highest score possible at the moment is only 5.9 :angel::) They left it low so they could increase it as time (and new hardware) goes by.... see http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/f59082f4-6385-4a61-ba7e-2de9625a780a1033.mspx
thats using their little page,

their is a couple other utils out there that give you some more stats based mickeysofts wspr formula as there is a lot of hardware that goes well past 5.9 in real life.

PS
there is a lot of software that will drop the rating back a fair way as well so it isnt just a purely hardware rating.

PPS
the url i had to it has been moved off msdn or to another spot as i get a page error now.

[incisor]

Boy I can only get a miserable 3.0 on my compaq laptop with vista home basic.But it was a cheap dick smith type.
my old p4 s478 3gig based system only managed 1.1

it was getting a bit tired.

[Grizzly_Adams]

thats using their little page,

their is a couple other utils out there that give you some more stats based mickeysofts wspr formula as there is a lot of hardware that goes well past 5.9 in real life.


Ah fair enough, didn't bother looking any further than M$'s little gadget...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

a p4 :lol2::lol2::lol2:,,,,





:eek:
can I still say stuff like that??

[duncanw]

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49293700-10,00.htm

[dullbird]

my'n got 5's

but inc built it does that count:angel:

and still going superbly.................................touch wood:bangin::eek::D

[5teve]

we are going vista64 on our workstations at work (been trying to resist) but alas 4gig just isnt cutting it and we need the 64bit vista (we have looked at xp64) to use 8 gig of ram... we are even concerned that it wont be enough for what we are doing... 16 would be good... but we are struggling to find a board..

I'll let you know how it goes Pedro :D they should be here soon

Thanks

Steve

[Ruslan]

Can't sell you Vista, but highly recommend to cut it using Vlite (http://www.vlite.net/). It gives you an extra 100hp under bonnet ;)

[LoveMyV8County]

Give us a rating on Crysis when you get there...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

hmm,, have settled on

cpu intel duo 6750
M/B Gigabyte GA-P35 DS3R
Geforce 8800GT(single!!!)

not sure about the ram,,

4gb of 800
or 2 gb of 1066

any ideas?



"Give us a rating on Crysis when you get there..."

am counting the days----:thumbsup:

[HangOver]

hmm,, have settled on

cpu intel duo 6750
M/B Gigabyte GA-P35 DS3R
Geforce 8800GT(single!!!)

not sure about the ram,,

4gb of 800
or 2 gb of 1066

any ideas?


Sounds like a top PC.

It depends on your RAM slots, I think the P35 range only has x2 DD2 and x2 DDR3 slots?
If so go for a 2GB chip in one slot so you can upgrade later to x4GB 1066 without having to dispose of the 4GB 800 and buy two new 2gb 1066.

If you are running Vista I would also say go for the 4GB 800 as it's quite hungry and in my experience runs like a pig; Vista on 2GB runs about the same as XP on 1GB but as you will have a good CPU & video that shouldn't be as much a problem. I saw it using 2GB on a 1.8ghzDualCore, and 8600video and I would not want to use it.

But then there is the issue that in the next year or two when you might upgrade that ram will be cheaper, dilemmas , dilemmas ;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

just to make life difficult,,
The new G92 chip in the Geforce 8800GT's
use the new PCIe 2 standard--

throughput doubles to 5 gb a sec,,,

but only the brand new X38 M/B Intel chip runs the new standard--


not sure I can stretch to a $400 M/Board,,,

dilemmas,,,,

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and after a fair bit of research--

the new 8800Gt's only run at 105 watts FULL LOAD,,,
though Nvidea recommend 24Amps on the 12 volt rail,,

and seeing the PSU standard says anything over
18(?) MUST be split,, it seems Nvidea wants us to use 2 power connectors,,
which is normal on the GTX'x and ULTRA's,,

but the GT only has ONE power slot----


I think my 480 Antec will be fine.


Inc comments not witstanding;)



edit:

oh, and I DID check the Antec actually HAS a PCIe connector---- :p

[incisor]

the trouble is spikes in power from the likes of rom drives booting up and stepping and fluctuations in power bite you.. hope it works for you, experience tells me you will be posting here about lockups :P

but you don't know unless you try....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

just to make life difficult,,
The new G92 chip in the Geforce 8800GT's
use the new PCIe 2 standard--

throughput doubles to 5 gb a sec,,,

but only the brand new X38 M/B Intel chip runs the new standard--


not sure I can stretch to a $400 M/Board,,,

dilemmas,,,,


it appears Gigabyte make a GA-38-DS5

has PCIe-2
has the intel P38 chip so IF I can ever afford another vid card they WILL run at full 16X speed.

and all at the amazing price of----
around $300,,

that maybe within reach,,
depends on Incs mood:p


EDIT;

the board uses around 150 watts full load,,,

[incisor]

about 315-320 to you... plus freight of course

http://www.synnex.com.au/Portals/0/content/Product%20images/giga/mb/GA-X38-DS5.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

IF you can buy one--
they reckon the Geforce 8800GT GPU runs at over 100degC under load,,,,
:eek:
thats with the standard cooler,,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/12/371.jpg
The gigabyte has a
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6125/gigabytegvnx88t512hpbht1.jpg

Zalman like cooler so should be much cooler,,,,


its so close---
I can smell it.

[Grimace]

its funny you mentioned you changed your mind on the two graphics card to go to the single 8800GT cause that is exactly what i was goin to reccomend.

Also you seem to have some how included the idea of 4gb of ram and thats exqactly what I would be doing.

I have Crysis sitting here (unopened) along with UT2007, I am not installing crysis until I get the 8800GT as I don't want to get the poops with my current temporary PCI-e card (7300GS).
I had two XXX edition 8600GTS cards and they were rubbish compared to a single 8800GT/GTS/GTX/Ultra.

Now I have a very similar PC E6850 and 4gb DDR2800... I had 2gb but realised vista is a hungry little pig, and even at times I find myself wishing for another 4 :D

I had a 430W PS (thermaltake) that I ditched and fit a 750W in its place. System is much happier now.
GET THE 550W as the bare minimum.

Cheers
Grimace

[Pedro_The_Swift]

In the last issue of Powerplay they do a report on CRYSIS,,

I've stapled the pages together!!

:p

Nvidea recommend 400w min--
am quite happy to try it on my 480w,,,
time will tell.

[HangOver]

In the last issue of Powerplay they do a report on CRYSIS,,

I've stapled the pages together!!

:p

Nvidea recommend 400w min--
am quite happy to try it on my 480w,,,
time will tell.

Most systems won't touch 400w even on boot up, you'll be fine.
Have a look on line for a CPU wattage calculator you'll be amazed at how little they draw.

I'm not saying a larger PSU would hurt, it means it will 'stress' less but sometimes it just isn't needed.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Kitchen table covered in shiney boxes!!!:eek:
:banana::banana::banana:




just waiting on vid card,, grrr

thats the trouble with PCI graphics,,
I dont have an old one:D:D

[HangOver]

i two XXX edition 8600GTS cards and they were rubbish compared to a single 8800GT/GTS/GTX/Ultra.


wish i'd seem this post a few weeks ago I just got x2 8600 XXX OC, cant remember the xxx but the I remember these ones are factoy Over Clocked

Oh well, I dont suppose I would pay the extra $100 or so being the tight wad I am !:D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'm gunna call it "ROME"

:p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/12/272.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

This gives you an idea on size---
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/12/189.jpg

[abaddonxi]

Didn't realise the 1" drives had enough capacity for a real computer.:D:D:D

That's hu-uge.

Cheers
Simon

[Pedro_The_Swift]

PSU not here yet, shop owner says "maybe" before this weekend.

not happy jan.:mad:

for ten cents I'd drive to Hearvy bay and buy one,,


assuming theres on in the bay---


but then I'd have two,,,

[incisor]

deliveries this time of year are abysmal, i certainly wont specify a delivery time on stuff. yesterday nothing came north of brisbane via any of the big three because there was a semi roll-over at nudgee and there were several of the big guys trucks stuck in the mallee that it caused....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

well its up!
and running,,
sort of,,

theres a part time PSU hanging out the side,,
I have NO cd/dvd drives,(yes- after loading vista----------)

rates 5.5 on the aero vista performance scale,,
held back by the slug intel cpu:mad:

VERY quiet,, and thats with BOTH side panels off
:D

I like vista so far,, just a bit different,,

havent done any benchmarks or games yet,, have the screen down to 1280 x 1024 x32 to keep the power usage down,, the part time psu is only 470w:angel:
1856 x 1392 at 71 hz (does 1600 x 1200 at 100hz) is the monitors highest res,, should laugh at that.;)

[HangOver]

Hi
I thought I'd mention for you to keep an eye on the temp of your heat sinks along your heat pipes. I have the board a few down from yours with a much slower CPU but the sinks still get "hot" to the touch,(no more than 2-3 seconds) not just warm.
I put an additional fan over my sinks to cool them, much better now, you can touch it without burning your fingers.

anyhow, earth yourself then run your finger over the sinks to check them out.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yea they do get hot,, but the cpu fan is right alongside
so they should be ok,,

cpu temp hasnt moved off 42 all afternoon,,

might get a bit warmer when the panels go on,,

[HangOver]

yea they do get hot,, but the cpu fan is right alongside
so they should be ok,,

cpu temp hasnt moved off 42 all afternoon,,

might get a bit warmer when the panels go on,,

Sounds about right.

Now I put the additional fan over the heat sink the CPU gets some of the blast so it cools enough for the CPU fan to turn it's self off.
It still takes some getting used to seeing the CPU fan stop !

Vista hmmmm, it's a hungry little piggy isn't it.
That's a nice case you go there, it looks ideal for water cooling if you ever wanted to. It's extremely efficient, but some how I can't get used to shoving a tank of water in my computer, well, not just yet.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

just ran 3DMark2001SE for a laugh,,

over 37 THOUSAND points,,,

I can remember being green with envy at guys who had a vid card that would actually do all the tests,,

:lol2::lol2:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Give us a rating on Crysis when you get there...

have been putting off doing this,,,,,

The game when first released was quite buggy,,
the first official patch not released until mid january,, still not great:(

I have bug that makes my cursor about 40 cm out,,

need to tick box here "X"














cursor here--- "X"


and with the options "APPLY" button in the bottom right hand corner,, I cant apply changes.

The bits I've struggled through are pretty amazing,, I cant play it at HIGHEST graphic level,, too much lag:mad:
Some people have NO problems,,

not too many though if you visit the crysis forums.

I'm sure crytek will patch it,, sooner or later:(

[HangOver]

I cant play it at HIGHEST graphic level,, too much lag:mad:



I'm sure you have but if you run vista do you have DirectX10 installed?

Also download latest video drivers it's quite amazing how much a new video driver can help, (or conversly, kill your PC:D)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

yea, the ONLY way to get DX10
is to buy vista,, and the graphics card is that new it came with the current nvidia driver.

if you remember----
Farcry needed to be patched about 4 times before it was rock solid,, big patches too--100mgs,,

mind you,, Farcry still rocks!;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

just to update all you gamers:cool:

Have been at crysis now for a week or so,, finally got it stable enough to play---:D

had to create a drive JUST for it and vista. oh and a sound card driver.


and it works fine!
amazing game, everything you've heard is true,,
still wont run at 1600x1200:(,, and my vista experience number is 5.5(everything else is 5.9 except for the cpu:mad:)

its still just a Space Marine shooter,, though you do get hummers and "boat-hummers", and planes,, anti aircraft positions, and some really funny "I kill you for free yankee dog!"(but deadly!!) north koreans to chase through the jungle,, then the game goes all sci fi as a big thing (technical shooter term) wakes up.

At the moment I'm flying a VTOL troop carrier trying to shoot down some electric-blue flying squids,, and not doing very well,,

"wadda mean I can rest the difficulty level!!!!????"
bloody pompous software writers,,,
:lol2:
:rocket::rocket::rocket:
:banana:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

well,,just killed the end boss,, took a while let me tell you-- didnt manage to save the aircraft carrier,, did I mention the carrier?


is it as good as Halflife2 Ep1 and 2?,,,,,

Crysis has better graphics, more realistic physics,
but a better GAME? hmm,, it takes itself very seriously,, no sense of humour at any stage.
It is VERY difficult on "normal" playing it at a harder level would take out what little fun there was,,

I played HL2 through 3 times straight,, but I dont know whether I'll play this again--

and maybe thats the real answer to the question